hi folks i was looking for some mayfly patterns to tie that work on Scottish lochs.do the Irish patterns work OK ,some of them seem pretty big .Ive only seen mayfly hatch two or three times on Scottish lochs but the trout didn't seem to be interested in rising to them.hope to have another chance in Caithness this June ,any suggestions greatfully received
cheers Garry
I had a bit of success on some lowland waters with a Yelow May, sometimes a French Partridge wet can be useful. This one of mine works on occasion. Tied on a size 10 L/S
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f233/Algie123/FrenchPartridgeP1011747.jpg)
Mayfly fishing in Scotland can be at best patchy. You do see them but generaly sporadic. I would be interested to know what waters have a hatch.
Tight Lines
hi highlander Ive seen mayflies on venacher and na seilge.i saw a hatch on coille bharr which a couple of locals who were also fishing called mayflies they were certainly big but they were claret in colour.
cheers Garry
Quotei saw a hatch on coille bharr which a couple of locals who were also fishing called mayflies they were certainly big but they were claret in colour.
April/May Gary? Sounds like claret or sepia duns which have 3 tails but half the size of true Mayflies.
I find anything big works when the fish are on the top after Mayfly. I don't though, have a hell of a lot of experience of Mayfly hatches. Just some days in Assynt.
Alex
Loch Ruthven has very regular hatches of large mayflies and Artifly's Red Arsed Green Peter does the business.
I have noticed that the trout do not come up in the numbers you would expect to take them on the top. It is
the terns and seagulls that have a feast at those times.
Davie
Highlander,
The biggest mayfly hatches I've seen have been on the Wiltshire Avon and in Sutherland on Urigill, Fionn, Cam and Borralan. Merkland and Griamh also have impressive hatches. The hatches can be absolutely phenomenal with hundreds of mayfly visible at any one time. I've seen these lochs absolutely bubbling with rising trout when the mayfly are up. I've seen smaller hatches on Loch Awe and Loch Lomond and several other lochs. There's some pictures of big hatches on the site - maybe Merkland - and also a discussion on the mayfly in Scotland.
They are sporadic however in that the conditions have to be right and I've seen days on end where cold temperatures and wind have meant no rise at all but a mild or even a hot day and it can be spectacular.
Malcolm
First week in July on Merkland and in surrounding area a couple of years ago saw some big mayfly hatches. Peacock herl DHE and Loch Ordie scored.
Tim
A size 10 DHS worked well for me on Loch Sletil
Seems they are more common than I & I am sure a few others thought. Nice handy info, food for thought people. Funny there is no great history about fishing specifically with the artificial in Scotland unlike Ireland & southern chalk streams.
Still going by what you say one should have a few imitation in ones box I reckon.
Tight Lines
You also get mayflies on the River Earn - just the trout dont seem interested in them. Think the hatches are too light and sporadic.
Norm
Quotehead and on the water and not a rise anywhere
Anyone have any ideas why this is so.
On more than a few occasions I have noticed this whereby the water was covered in naturals & the fish were either ignoring them or in a few cases taking something else.
Is it the size that frightens them off. I know it takes a while on occasion to home in on wind borne Daddies & large Sedge in the evenings are sometime ignored but come back a couple of hours later & it is a different world. Or is it a case that they do not taste good, do not think that is true though I have heard it said. Silverhorn Sedge I think may fall into that category. Can not remember a time when I have seen Trout feeding on them despite 1,000s fluttering above the water. Get a fall of Hawthorn or Ants in August & it is a different story, the Trout absolutely molicate them. Others mileage may vary on that last one.
Tight Lines
QuoteQuote
head and on the water and not a rise anywhere
Anyone have any ideas why this is so.
I sometimes find the same thing around this time of year with hatches of olives. It is as though the fish don't recognise them as food as they are not used to finding their food on the surface over the winter.
With mayflies I think the same applies. It is not part of the trout's normal daily diet, so it can take a while for them to realise that the mayfly is an easy meal.
I've seen the same with heather fly at Loch Doine. There were countless numbers of mating heather flies struggling in the surface film in a flat calm and I saw just one rise all day long. It was weird :?.
Alex
They're widely distributed across most of Sutherland and into Caithness, more so than many people might think.
I've seen them ignored in favour of small olives a few times but, more usually, the highland fish get stuck into them. There's not much beats a mayfly hatch for pure excitement in loch fishing.
Size 10 DHE with an olive body is my first choice.
Dave
I should add, the problem with highland mayfly hatches is the timing.
On the chalkstreams and the Irish loughs, the hatches seem to be more predictable, in the north of Scotland the peak activity could be anytime in June or July, or not at all - more a steady trickle over the summer.
Ardbeg
Peacock herl DHE in size 12 was the one if memory serves right. These are size 14 but you will get the idea.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/360948335_52053c9ae5.jpg)
Tim
thanks to everyone for the tips and advice.will tie a few of your suggestions and keep my fingers crossed come June.
cheers Garry
The Braan also has a mayfly hatch- and it can be spectacular. Fish seem to rise to them on the upper river (Amulree) but not further downstream- but that's fairly typical of the Braan.
Ah well, that's the question! I can't remember! I do remember a huge hatch above Rumbling bridge where I lay on my back on a rock and watched the air show. Spectacular stuff. Didn't have a rod with me but drove up to Amulree and, right enough, trout were rising to them.
I am sure they are native but one thing I have noticed over the years is people saying they have seen Mayfly when in fact it has been another upwing fly mistaken for Mayfly. That is quite common I think.
Tight Lines
I think it is the American influence from books. They call all upwing flies mayflies, freda?
I have watched Mayflies (danica) hatching in a bay on Loch Awe at the end of May.
The main thing they need is a silt bottom. The nymphs are burrowers. Don't think they like acid water though.
I was up in Assynt a couple of years ago and i'm pretty certain thats what was hatching on one of the lochs we fished.
Quote from: breac uaig on March 26, 2008, 08:51:26 PM
dont they all belong to the same family? ephemeroptera?, we have syphlonurus and rithrogena
round here,these are quite large,, there are several species of danica, each species seems to be specific to an area , some of the larger ones occur in norway and sweden, breac uaig
I've had an on-off winter project going for some years now classifying the British insects without ever becoming an expert. It's a confusing business to start with and I've tried to simplify the following blurb which means I'm not being 100% accurate - never mind; here goes
"Ephemeroptera" (literally "day wing") is an order rather than family. It is basically all the upwinged flies - these have similiar characteristics in that they all have a dun and spinner stage.
What confuses the issue with mayflies a little is that the first part of the name is the very similar "Ephemera" and the family name is "Ephemeridae".
In America the upwings are ALL known as mayflies - so the American term "mayfly" equates to Ephemeroptera rather than just Ephemeridae. As with a lot of American usages I've noticed that it's starting to take over the language and even some Brtish magazines have started to use the term "mayfly" in the American way.
In Britain the Ephemeridae includes two common species (Ephemera Vulgata and E.Danica) and one much much rarer species which (E.Lineata) is only found I believe within a few miles to the west of London. I seem to remember that there is another very rare mayfly which happens to be found in Scotland but I can't remember it's name, or where I remember that snippet from.
The Vulgata is the more common in only a few areas in England, like Gloucestershire, for the rest of Britain the predominant species is Danica and it is the species usually found in Scotland. Crocach - yours is Danica.
Another intriguing question Alan, given the distribution:Danica is widespread across the UK and Europe from Italy all the way up to Sweden you would think it unlikely. In a previous thread we looked at the lochs where there was some form of Mayfly hatch and It's clear they seem to be everywhere in Scotland - from the borders up to Caithness and Sutherland with every point in between.
They do seem to be prolific in only a few locations however and in Scotland I haven't seen the really prolific hatches except in West Sutherland and there they seem to be very localised; Borralan to Fionn and on the other side of the hill in Merkland and Griamh. Has anyone ever seen a big hatch on Shin or Assynt?
Down to environment I suppose.
This is what Lesley crawford said in an article
"If classifying the British mayfly is sometimes difficult, its distribution throughout this 'Sceptred Isle' has also been a subject for confusion. Whereas the southern chalkstreams and the Irish Loughs have long been noted for abundant mayfly, the fact that these insects are also well distributed across the northern highlands is frequently ignored. As mayfly larva requires a softish clay-like soil to burrow into from egg stage, it's often wrongly assumed that the apparently peaty stony rivers and lochs of Scotland do not provide suitable mayfly habitat. This is a big mistake, especially if you want to plan an angling holiday around times when larger than normal trout are to be caught.
Many highland lochs and streams contain valuable but not always visible outcrops of marl (a pale limestone mud sometimes used by farmers to `lime' their fields) and mayfly utilise this habitat to their considerable advantage. Caithness, Sutherland, Ross-shire and Argyll all have marl and mayfly present, so appearances can be very deceptive. It's also interesting that while mayfly habitat degradation is widespread in the south of England, huge numbers of mayfly continue to hatch unabated in the more pristine north" .
I think there is a misconception about what influence limestone has on lochs and rivers. The limestone does not need to outcrop in the loch or river to have an influence on the pH of the waters. A smaller stream could be bringing down dissolved ions or suspended lime silt into the loch or indeed an underground spring could be pumping high pH water into the system. So you have to consider connection to limestones rather than just outcropping in the considered waters.
I believe that mayflies lay their eggs in silt and the higher the pH the better but neutral is fine. I think I have commented on how invertebrates will have their growth stunted if they have to battle the erosive effects of low pH waters.
P.A. Hillend is in the carboniferous limestone formation and there are many limestones in that. The Castlecary is one of the most famous. They used to be quarried for use in iron and steel making. The Carboniferous formations provided the resources to drive the industrial revolution. coal, steel and lime for reducing the ore.