I noticed in a magazine recently a klink with a small loop of strong nylon or was it braid tied in on the bend for fishing NZ style, anyone tied them this way? how do you go about tying in the loop so it's secure?
brian.
Aye, saw that too Brian. I think it was flouro orange backing used for the loop and a couple of turns for the butt. I think the article said it doubled as a target point and the loop for attaching the nymph NZ style. It looked a good idea right enough, if a bit of a compromise; can't say I've ever used it though.
I imagine the loop must be bound down along the length of the fly with the tying thread before tying the rest of the fly, otherwise it wouldn't have the strength to hold a fish on the point?
It should be fine Brian when we tie sea trout flies in tandem we just pinch the mono with pliers then tie in with a good number of turns it must be said.
I think I saw a Klinkhamer fly that like that in a magazine (Fulling Mill advert maybe) which had a dropper ring tied at the bend, which may be more secure than a nylon loop.
My chubby fingers struggle with Klink hackles, let alone tiny leader rings as well !
I think I saw the article or something similar, the justification was that if you hooked a fish when fishing NZ style, it wouldn't put undue stress on the hook from what I remember. I thought it was maybe being a bit over cautious.
I have not seen this article, but it does sound like an interesting idea. Might have to give it a go.
Think I saw the advert as well the hook had its usual eye but also one on the bend to attach the dropper fly to.
Quote from: guest on April 01, 2011, 12:44:34 PM
I think I saw the article or something similar, the justification was that if you hooked a fish when fishing NZ style, it wouldn't put undue stress on the hook from what I remember. I thought it was maybe being a bit over cautious.
I think so too. I've landed 6 pounders (no, not 6 X 1 pounders :)) on this method. I just don't use fine wire hooks when fishing NZ style.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on April 01, 2011, 01:48:21 PM
I think so too. I've landed 6 pounders (no, not 6 X 1 pounders :)) on this method. I just don't use fine wire hooks when fishing NZ style.
Alex
Agreed :D Use a decent hook and you have no issue what-so-ever. It's interesting just how heavy a hook you can use and still float it :8)
As far as the mono method, if you just wrap it down with thread it will hold. I have a few tandem streamer tied like this, pretty dam strong.
Yeah, can't say I've suffered any loss in hookups due to it. I fish usually a dry and nymph or a dry and two nymphs, all tied to the bends of each other. Going by the number of fish hooked on the dry I'd find it hard to say there is a negative effect in hooking ability.
When you tie a dropper or extra leader to a hook bend does that not cause the top fly [ the floater ] to lie incorrectly in the water ?
T
Quote from: Teither on April 13, 2011, 01:16:54 AM
When you tie a dropper or extra leader to a hook bend does that not cause the top fly [ the floater ] to lie incorrectly in the water ?
T
Not if the dry fly is an emerger Jim. The nymph actually helps the klinkhammer or deer hair emerger to sit correctly, with it's abdomen subsurface.
I have tried the technique with pretty standard dry flies like a royal wulff and found the dry fly's tail always gets tangled and knotted around the NZ dropper (for want of a better description), so I stick with tailless flies as dries when using this method.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on April 13, 2011, 01:34:58 AM
I have tried the technique with pretty standard dry flies like a royal wulff and found the dry fly's tail always gets tangled and knotted around the NZ dropper (for want of a better description), so I stick with tailless flies as dries when using this method.
Alex
That's interesting. Most of the time my dry is a standard pattern rather than an emerger and I haven't had that issue at all. I've tangled the whole thing around the main tippet and around the whole body of the dry but never had any problems with the tail. Very interesting actually. I wonder if variables like tippet length, fly weight, tail material etc all have a bearing on that. My go-to in the backcountry is a 12 or maybe a 14 royal wulff variant with deer hair wings and deer hair tail.
Quote from: scotty9 on April 13, 2011, 05:33:49 AM
That's interesting. Most of the time my dry is a standard pattern rather than an emerger and I haven't had that issue at all. I've tangled the whole thing around the main tippet and around the whole body of the dry but never had any problems with the tail. Very interesting actually. I wonder if variables like tippet length, fly weight, tail material etc all have a bearing on that. My go-to in the backcountry is a 12 or maybe a 14 royal wulff variant with deer hair wings and deer hair tail.
It could be the relationship between the two fly weights Scott. I find i have to fine tune this to get the right turnover.
It could also be my casting :?
Alex
Quote from: haresear on April 13, 2011, 08:41:05 AM
It could also be my casting :?
Alex
Doubt that! Although actually something I have noticed is if you cast a very tight loop you can get into some issues, the second part of the tippet appears to almost just crash into the dry. I generally cast a bit wider loop most of the time. Interesting topic though, next time I'm out practising I think I'll try and work out what the cause might be.
Quote from: scotty9 on April 13, 2011, 09:58:39 AM
Doubt that! Although actually something I have noticed is if you cast a very tight loop you can get into some issues, the second part of the tippet appears to almost just crash into the dry. I generally cast a bit wider loop most of the time. Interesting topic though, next time I'm out practising I think I'll try and work out what the cause might be.
I wonder if it is due to a mini tailing loop on the "dropper" Scott. Maybe I should delay the forward stroke a fraction longer.
I also notice a pronounced hingeing effect when I cast the nymph and dry and so in a headwind I usually use one or the other. I think I'll do a bit of experimenting myself as I struggled to cast the NZ dropper tidily into a headwind last weekend.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on April 13, 2011, 11:15:04 AM
I also notice a pronounced hingeing effect when I cast the nymph and dry and so in a headwind I usually use one or the other. I think I'll do a bit of experimenting myself as I struggled to cast the NZ dropper tidily into a headwind last weekend.
Alex
I am exactly the same. Single fly for me into the wind. I could probably fix it by moving to a very short leader but I am just not comfortable with that.
Quote from: haresear on April 13, 2011, 01:34:58 AM
Not if the dry fly is an emerger Jim. The nymph actually helps the klinkhammer or deer hair emerger to sit correctly, with it's abdomen subsurface.
I have tried the technique with pretty standard dry flies like a royal wulff and found the dry fly's tail always gets tangled and knotted around the NZ dropper (for want of a better description), so I stick with tailless flies as dries when using this method.
Alex
Alex
Thanks for that. I just had a go at making a NZ dropper as you described, using a Klink and a wee weighted PTN. I've now got nice wee hookpoint punctures in my fingertips ! :)
J
Quote from: Teither on April 13, 2011, 12:28:24 PM
Alex
Thanks for that. I just had a go at making a NZ dropper as you described, using a Klink and a wee weighted PTN. I've now got nice wee hookpoint punctures in my fingertips ! :)
J
:lol: :lol:
Aye Jim, there is a learned knack to positioning your fingers when tying the uni knot. I used to struggle with it myself, but it's now second nature. I use three turns by the way.
Alex
Alex
Alex
It eventually dawned on me to tie a noose/slip knot and drop that over the bend of the top hook. That was quite easy ... is it likely to be secure ?
J
Quote from: Teither on April 13, 2011, 09:02:59 PM
Alex
It eventually dawned on me to tie a noose/slip knot and drop that over the bend of the top hook. That was quite easy ... is it likely to be secure ?
J
I've had the odd one slip off Jim, but when casting, not when playing fish. this happened on totally barbless hooks, so all you have to do is either to use a barbed hook, or do as I now do which is to squeeze the barb flat. Just make sure you pill the slip knot tight and there should be no problem.
you might want to carry a cast carrier or beermat to wind your nymph and nylon round if you decide to take it off and just fish a single dry. that way you just slip it on again when needed.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on April 13, 2011, 11:29:16 PM
Alex, when fishing a duo, which fly are you working? i dont mean fishing because i'd expect the nymph to be the taker but which one is your concentration on?
The dry, Alan. It is my indicator of drag and of takes to the nymph. It can be difficult however to hit a take fast if the nymph is taken, but to carry out a slower strike (for want of a better description) should a fish take the dry.
Just to clarify; If I see the mouth close, that's when I hit the take to the dry. If the dry dips, I hit it right away.
alex
Quote from: Alan on April 13, 2011, 11:46:51 PM
i have to admit im usually er..doing a bit of line management round about then, if the dry drags does it put them off the nymph?
Mibbees aye and mibbees naw. Without seeing the fish, you'll never know.
I like to try to avoid drag.
When nymphing for grayling when I know there is a shoal in front of me, it is often noticeable that only the best drag free drifts will produce a take. I've seen the same thing when trotting a float for roach or grayling.
Trout are I think more likely than grayling to chase a dragging nymph, but I still err on the side of caution as I've seen many trout spooked by a dragging nymph.
Alex
Quoteif the dry is drag free will the nymph be? i mean is the dry an indication of whats really happening under there?
It's as near drag free as any thing drifting while tethered can be :) There will always be an element of drag and all the angler can do is to minimise this.
Controlling the drift can take many forms. By casting slack , by mending before and/or after the line is on the water, by casting a shorter line, by getting more directly downstream (or upstream) of the fish. They all have a part to play.
Alex
My experience of loops in the tail is not good. If the nylon is not strong then in the course of a days fishing I found the loop would be sliced with the nylon leader to the nymph. In a quest to address this I then decided to increase the strength of nylon w,which resulted in a bulky fly.. So no easy answer. Now I just attach to the shank of the hook.
Cheers
Paul
That's an interesting idea Col - - what about trying that on a swedish dry fly hook?
Col,
I misread your post - and thought you were tying the connection near the wing (apols just in from the Old Mill!) and immediately thought of the connection near the wing bud where the Swedish hook style would have helped.
Malcolm