Hi ,another nails post!! :gay4 i'm just about to get a uv lamp and some uv resin (time to throw all epoxies away!). I was wondering though if anyone knew if nail gel is one in the same product marketed as uv resin such as Bug Bond, if they are do you know if it's top coat or builder? :gay4 it's for pike flies honest!
Thanks Col
Quote from: col on September 08, 2011, 08:10:14 PM
Hi ,another nails post!! :gay4 i'm just about to get a uv lamp and some uv resin (time to throw all epoxies away!). I was wondering though if anyone knew if nail gel is one in the same product marketed as uv resin such as Bug Bond, if they are do you know if it's top coat or builder? :gay4 it's for pike flies honest!
Thanks Col
Yes, it's basically the same thing, builder and sealant, in various colours etc. Unfortunately the information I have is all in German. Here are two suppliers;
http://www.nded.de/uv-gel-farbgel/ (http://www.nded.de/uv-gel-farbgel/)
http://www.nails.de/de/UV-Gel/Premium-Edition (http://www.nails.de/de/UV-Gel/Premium-Edition)
The builder is the "Aufbaugel" and the sealant or topcoat is the Versiegelungsgel. There is also the UV-Quick finish which is a high gloss topcoat.
TL
MC
Fill yer boots for a fraction of the cost of ones that are supposedly formulated for fly tying!
Top-coat ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8)
Thinners ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Nail-Art-Gel-Cleanser-Remover-Manicure-Acrylic-/280309065028?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item4143b8e544 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Nail-Art-Gel-Cleanser-Remover-Manicure-Acrylic-/280309065028?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item4143b8e544)
Torch ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Flashlight-21-LED-395nM-Ultra-Violet-/220829239182?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item336a72c78e (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Flashlight-21-LED-395nM-Ultra-Violet-/220829239182?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item336a72c78e)
Quote from: col on September 08, 2011, 08:26:04 PM
Thanks Mike do you know if you need the top coat?
You don't "need" it for making flies, but it does give a nice tough gloss finish. Also, some stuff has different properties "flows" differently and gives a "flatter" finish.
For the majority of fly work the builder is fine by itself. All depends on what you want to do. You might only want the topcoat for some stuff.
I see Scotfly has given you an e-bay link, that's probably your best bet.
TL
MC
It's what some of the guys who are advertising the "branded" stuff are using. It's a bit thick straight out of the bottle so add a little thinner to it.
What's the correct thinner to use Dennis?
That stuff is amazingly cheap
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8)
If Scotfly has used it then it will be fine. Some of the topcoat stuff I tried was no good for building up heads. It was pretty thin. I used the builder for that, and the topcoat as a final coat.
TL
MC
Quote from: admin on September 08, 2011, 08:35:06 PM
What's the correct thinner to use Dennis?
The one in my post Fred. It's called cleaner, but it's the same thing.
Be aware that the uv varnish is not tack-free, but a wipe with the thinners (cleaner) or a final coat of "normal" varnish will fix it.
Quote from: admin on September 08, 2011, 08:35:06 PM
What's the correct thinner to use Dennis?
You can use a mixture ( 50/50 ) of acetone and alcohol ( ethanol). but you must not use too much or the stuff wont cure. A couple of drops at most is usually enough for most things.
I am fairly sure that's the same stuff they are offering as thinner on the e-bay link as well. You must not use nail varnish cleaner, as it often contains other stuff besides acetone and alcohol, and again it will prevent the resin form curing.
TL
MC
One other thing. Don't be tempted to put some on your finger nail and cure it with the torch like I did for a laugh at BFFI. You'd be surprised at how much heat is generated in the curing process! :shock:
Quote from: col on September 09, 2011, 10:33:25 AM
Are the thinners usefu for thinning fly tying varnish as well?
That depends on the "varnish". You can use acetone for thinning a lot of things, and alcohol works for some as well. The mixture of acetone and alcohol is not quite as volatile as acetone alone and will also work for a lot of things. However, you have to know what type your varnish is. There are a lot of types now including water based and others. Using the wrong thinner will just ruin it.
I, and many others, don't bother with "Fly-tying" varnish as such. Get yourself some nail varnish. A very good one is Sally Hansen's "Hard as nails". But the "el cheapo" brand from the local supermarket, chemist etc, will be more than adequate for most things. Just make sure it is nice and thin. You can thin any "normal" nail varnish with acetone. ( No alcohol in this case). Don't use "Nail varnish cleaner", it wont work, as it invariably contains other substances for nail care. Also, don't get into the habit of leaving the top off your varnish bottles, (Choose bottles with a narrow neck as well!), as the solvent evaporates quite quickly and the varnish will thicken. Beyond a certain point the basic structure of the varnish can deteriorate, and thinning it wont make it usable again.
When thinning only use a few drops of thinner. This is usually more than adequate.
Even nail varnishes differ a lot. Some have various additives, the "Sally Hansens's Nylon" ; http://www.sallyhansen.co.uk/products/hard-nails-nylon (http://www.sallyhansen.co.uk/products/hard-nails-nylon) is one such product, and there are many more. You want clear standard nail varnish for most things, and this is easily used and thinned. For "special" products, you may need "special" thinner as well, so these are best avoided.
Most nail varnish bottles come with a brush for applying the varnish. This will work better for most things if you cut the brush down to a much thinner profile. For many things I still prefer a needle for applying varnish. Just a tiny drop on the point of the needle. Thin clear varnish will soak in quickly, cleanly, and smoothly. The thicker the varnish the more problems are likely to arise.
The best varnish for most things like trout fly heads etc, has about the consistency of water.
TL
MC
Bear in mind that this stuff is also called by other names. "Lacquer", "Polish" etc. It's nearly all much the same stuff, for the most part nitro-cellulose varnish, a sort of "liquid plastic" if you like.
Just find the cheapest thinnest for fly-dressing purposes. Pound stores and places like that often have it cheap. Shake the bottle, and check the liquid meniscus, if it's nice and thin, you can buy it. If it looks "oily" or viscous don't bother. If it's not in a clear glass bottle, leave it.
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=11059321#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+lacquer&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+lacquer (http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=11059321#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+lacquer&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+lacquer)
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=11059321#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+varnish&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+varnish (http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=11059321#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+varnish&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+varnish)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+polish%23&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+polish%23&ajr=0 (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D11059321&field-keywords=nail+polish%23&rh=n%3A3760911%2Cn%3A%2111055981%2Cn%3A11058281%2Cn%3A11059311%2Cn%3A11059321%2Ck%3Anail+polish%23&ajr=0)
This is very good and cheaper than most "Fly-tying" varnish as well, but you can get it a lot cheaper if you look around.
http://www.amazon.com/Sally-Hansen-Lacquer-Cleard-Takeoff/dp/B0051WGNOO/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1315561201&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Sally-Hansen-Lacquer-Cleard-Takeoff/dp/B0051WGNOO/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1315561201&sr=1-1)
The "Rimmel" clear lacquer is also excellent;
http://www.amazon.com/Rimmel-Lasting-Finish-Enamel-Crystal/dp/B004LXL34O/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1315561353&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Rimmel-Lasting-Finish-Enamel-Crystal/dp/B004LXL34O/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1315561353&sr=1-1)
Prices for this stuff vary very extensively. So have a look around before you decide. Buy small bottles rather than large ones! I have a few bottles of the Rimmel stuff which I got "3 for a Euro" at a local "pound store". Perfect.
Also, when using this stuff for "finishing" fly heads etc. Don't dress a fly and then varnish it. Wait until you have a dozen finished and then varnish them all at the same time. ( Stuck in foam or whatever). This will make your varnish last a LOT longer, simply because you have the bottle open for a much shorter time, and less solvent evaporates.
TL
MC
Also, as it may possibly be of interest, the most widely used "Fly-Tying" varnish for many years was "Cellire" these are the recipes for making celluloid itself, and for the varnish.
CELLULOID (Fr. Celluloide ; Ger., Celluloid) Solubilities, insoluble in water, soluble in acetone, alcohol, and ether. It is obtained by casting on metal cylinders a viscous solution of pyroxyline (which see) in naphtha, amyl acetate, fusel oil, and camphor in varying proportions. This gives the thin sheets used in roll-film cameras, and the thicker strips used in kinemato graphy. Thick sheet celluloid is usually obtained by casting the celluloid in blocks and shaving off to the required thickness. Its principal use is for the support of films of all kinds and for making celluloid varnish or zaponlack.
A great objection to celluloid is its inflammability. A non-inflammable variety (see "Cellulose Acetate ") has been placed on the market.
A formula for a celluloid varnish is : Celluloid or pyroxyline 90 grs. 6 g.
Acetone . . . io drms. 35 ccs.
Amyl acetate . . zo ,, 70 ,, Benzole ,, ,, . 20 ,, 70 ,, Old and spoilt films with the gelatine cleaned off will provide the celluloid ; more or less is used to regulate the consistency of the varnish.
Cellulose acetate is more common nowadays;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate)
The various terms, varnish, lacquer, etc etc all technically refer to different things here is some general info;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish)
Modern "nail polish" is usually nitro-cellulose in various solvents. Some general info on that;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_polish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_polish)
TL
MC
Finally, a couple of points which are seldom mentioned, but can be of major import!
DONT SMOKE or use ANY heat sources around this stuff, especially not naked flames. Certain mixtures of fumes from volatile solvents, even a small amount, can constitute a so called FAB ( Fuel Air Bomb ) which will blow you to hell, ( or wherever you happen to be destined), you will not "shuffle of this mortal coil", you will depart at great speed, possibly in a number of pieces! Even in one piece the concussion will probably suffice to speed you on your way, and if it doesn't the resulting massive low pressure and oxygen deficit will likely finish the job.
Only use the stuff in well ventilated areas. If you are drying a lot of flies etc, then open a window. Continued exposure to some of these fumes will "rot" your brain in the same unpleasant manner observed in glue sniffing addicts.
TL
MC
Putting on my model-maker hat, there is a great range of glues, varnishes paints etc. each with their own thinners/ removers.
A little research and experimentation is required if you want to cut down costs.
As an example, paint manufacturers such as Tamiya and Humbrol direct you to their (expensive) own-brand thinners rather than just tell you what to use.
Making up a range of viscosities is a regular requirement. I use graduated disposable (they can be reused with care) pippettes from Camlab and a range of small glass bottles from the same source. Unfortunately the pippettes have to be bought by the 500, this is no problem to me as I'll get through that number in a year. For those of you that just need a couple for fly tying- PM me and I'll pop them in the post.
Back to Tamiya paints- the clear acrylics come in Smoke, Clear, Blue, Yellow, 2 Greens, Orange, Red and Green (Codes X19, X22-28)
and offer some great creative possibilities for heads and buzzer bodies.
Quote from: scotfly on September 08, 2011, 08:27:04 PM
Fill yer boots for a fraction of the cost of ones that are supposedly formulated for fly tying!
Top-coat ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Topcoat-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Gel-Top-Coat-Polish-/290472433640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item43a18197e8)
Thinners ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Nail-Art-Gel-Cleanser-Remover-Manicure-Acrylic-/280309065028?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item4143b8e544 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-UV-Nail-Art-Gel-Cleanser-Remover-Manicure-Acrylic-/280309065028?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Nails_Manicure_Pedicure_CA&hash=item4143b8e544)
Torch ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Flashlight-21-LED-395nM-Ultra-Violet-/220829239182?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item336a72c78e (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UV-Flashlight-21-LED-395nM-Ultra-Violet-/220829239182?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item336a72c78e)
Hello all i am looking at ordering all the stuff in the Scotfly post.The Uv torch is no longer available but have found this torch i think is suitable but thought i better ask before ordering. http://goo.gl/jMEXA (http://goo.gl/jMEXA)
Is this what i need Cheers :D
Looks the same to me RM.
Hello all i tied up a load of shrimps yesterday with the resin in the Scotfly link.The resin has hardened but is still fairly sticky have i done something wrong.Had them sitting at the window all day thought that would have finished them off.Cheers
They will have to do probably go fishing tomorrow hopefully the grayling won't mind. :D
Quote from: Rabmax on November 13, 2011, 08:53:14 PM
Hello all i tied up a load of shrimps yesterday with the resin in the Scotfly link.The resin has hardened but is still fairly sticky have i done something wrong.
You've done nothing wrong, I did say earlier...
Quote from: scotfly on September 08, 2011, 08:58:54 PM
Be aware that the uv varnish is not tack-free, but a wipe with the thinners (cleaner) or a final coat of "normal" varnish will fix it.
Cheers Scotfly :D
Hello all thought i would bring this up again as i have had a good development on the cheap UV front.I bought the torch & UV resin posted on this link a while ago.I had sort of gave up on it as the resin would stay sticky for days even weeks after setting with the torch.I was told to order this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260945994143?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260945994143?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) The problem is solved now sets it rock hard without the sticky problem.Incase anyone has a torch that's not up to the job this one sure is.Cheers
Any chance of a wee sbs using this stuff guys. Telling us what branded stuff you're using, what thinners or topcoats and how to apply it and dry it etc,. ? Does any uv torch work ? Can you colour the resin ?
First time I've seen this thread but have seen some finished flies and when I saw a uv torch the other night it got me thinking about whether to give it a bash or not............ :?
Quote from: Rabmax on February 15, 2012, 11:40:22 PM
Hello all thought i would bring this up again as i have had a good development on the cheap UV front.I bought the torch & UV resin posted on this link a while ago.I had sort of gave up on it as the resin would stay sticky for days even weeks after setting with the torch.I was told to order this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260945994143?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260945994143?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) The problem is solved now sets it rock hard without the sticky problem.Incase anyone has a torch that's not up to the job this one sure is.Cheers
Sorry if I gave you duff information RM. I use a different (more expensive) torch than the one I mentioned. The one I mentioned was recommended to me by a close friend (with an eye for a bargain) who swore blind by the cheaper torch. I shall have words with him when we next meet!
Those are outstanding Col , are the fibres treated with the resin ?