I read Bob Wyatt's excellent book 'Trout Hunting' a few years ago and have just finished re-reading this week. This year I have been using the DHE fly on my local rivers with great success. I have to admit that in the past I'd shied away from it a bit as I hate tying with deerhair, prefering his snowshoe hare version as an olive imitation. But the DHE has been a revelation to me this time around and I regret not using it earlier.
I noticed Wyatt's endorsment of this fly and the similar deerhair sedge job, for Scottish loch fishing. He advocates use of the latter as a top dropper pattern particularly. I tied 15 of these up yesterday in different seal fur body colours, size 12-14 and I'm looking to use them on Skye next month. They've maybe come out a bit heavier dressed than Wyatt's - a bit like 'smuddlers' (if any of you remember that Rod Tye article in T&S a few years back). Any of you lads found Wyatt's patterns to be handy on the lochs?
On a similar note, if you can offer any advice on useful patterns for the Storr Lochs (mid July), and nearby lochans, I'd be very grateful.
Cheers,
Matt
Alan on here uses the DHE on wild waters I believe but he seldom catches fish better than 5lb.
I've done really well with the a DHS in July on Islay, top fly, nothing can beat it! Especially with a orange seal fur body. I'd imagine it would do well on the Storr Lochs.
Norm
I like the DHS for lochs as well; fiery red SLF body version is my favorite. The CDC&Elk, which also gets a mention in trout Hunting, is also worth a try on the lochs.
However, I seldom catch trout more than a pound :)
Always have a dark claret sedge on the top dropper whether static or pulled. Bibio version with globrite red was doing good work in Sutherland last week too. Boy was doing great work with a dark olive DHE in Assynt in bright weather on Sunday and Monday.
Tim
I've just added another post asking the same questions of the very same fly, should have checked here first!
It's not a fly I've ever used but after reading other people's opinion of them I'm quite intrigued to see how I get on with it. Only 11 days till I'm heading up the A835 as giddy as a kid on Christmas morning!
Putting subsurface / wet flies to one side, Wyatt's deer hair sedge and deer hair emerger are, for me, unsurpassed surface flies for loch fishing.
In fact, I'd rate the DHE as the most generally reliable dry fly you can put before a rising fish, river or loch, like most great flies it's a generic template. Vary the size and colour.
Deerhair Sedge is usually a miracle worker on lochs, actually I now routinely tie them with rubber legs and an extra wing halfway along the shank - more bouyancy and movement.
Rough rule of thumb - if casting at rising fish, DHE, static,
for a search fly, DHS left static then twitched, or figure-eighted back.
Fish, being contrary buggers, will always find ways to confound your most meticulous theory. This is what keeps it interesting - you will never figure this shit out!
But surface/imitative fishing has a logic to it - I know that ,say, a #14 DHE with a grey/brown slim fur body looks like any number of food items, suspended from the surface.
Wet flies - who knows why a fish might take a Kate Mclaren and not a Butcher?
The only option is to be guided by experience (and then chuck that in the bin when it doesnae work!)
All hail the Loch Ordie, whatever the feck that's meant to be!
And my new fave, the Black crow - it's just red and black hackles palmered on a hook.
Quote from: Alan on June 15, 2012, 01:45:32 PM
Generic template is a good phrase, its what a fly is in many ways, the closer to generic it gets the more effective in the long term, the majority of most trout's diet has to be the nymphs, emerger and fly of waterborne flies, at those times they are most available, no accident that most would site the stage that appears most when they go fishing, i.e.. myself and dave, generally evening so DHE, but during the day, DHS when there is nothing in particular hatching and fish are more likely to go for something opportunistic.
i have yet to understand the theory behind wet flies with the same logic that applies to dry flies, but opportunistic seems close, why people attach relevance to different colours of wet flies is even more confusing, kate mclaren certainly works but I personally don't have any way of quantifying a kate mclaren's success over any other wet fly, its a great debate that never really reaches a conclusion, but i reckon i could catch more fish with one fly than Kingsmill Moore could with 100, if he was alive of course :lol:
You can only use sensible logic, ( yes. there are other types!), with regard to fly choice,if you set your selection up in a logical manner to begin with. Trying to select something from a general random ragbag of flies is often unsuccessful. Not least because you don't really know what you have or how to use it, and you are also spoiled for choice.
If you are going to go the generic route, which is very successful indeed when practiced correctly, then you still need a good basic selection of generics. Most of the time it doesn't actually matter much which ones you choose originally as long as you have a general idea when and how to use them. Some people do very well with just a couple of fairly vague generics.
Using specific imitations correctly requires a lot more work to begin with. It is usually more successful than just using generics, but that depends very heavily indeed on the skill and knowledge of the person using them.
Even if you use worms, there are people who will still catch better than you simply because they are better at it.
With regard to the DHE and the CDC and Elk, both are excellent generics, and can also be made more specific if desired. I prefer to use my own patterns, but I have used these and others quite successfully.
For most people half a dozen really well chosen flies would suffice for the majority of the time. Still doesn't stop them carrying hundreds of patterns and hardly ever knowing what to choose! :)
Of MAJOR importance in many cases is how the flies are dressed.
TL
MC
Don't think I have posted this here before, it is quite relevant. I wrote it a long time ago but a recent post here brought it to mind;
An angler went a fishing, with hopes exceeding high,
reaching the stream, he grabbed his gear, and tried to choose a fly.
First he looked at pheasant tails, in every shade and hue,
but then his eye caught woolly worms, of which he had a few,
From dry flies back to wet flies, and sorting through his nymphs,
he chopped and changed and hesitated, at every single glimpse.
The fish were rising madly, taking everything that flew,
but still the angler sought in vain, he did not have a clue.
"Well met my brother piscator", another angler hailed,
"How are you faring? Well I hope". "No, up to now I´ve failed.
My casting it is perfect, I have trained for many a year,
and the stream I know it well of course, I often fish it here,
the ways of fish and insects, are also quite well known,
and I have a copy of every one, that here has ever flown,
all this avails me naught I fear, of little use my constant muse,
out of all my large filled boxes, a fly I can not choose".
"That really is a problem, should I then have a look?,
out of all the lovely flies you have, one must bring you luck".
"I know, I know", the angler wailed, his anguish giving voice,
"but now I have so many flies, that I am spoiled for choice.
How have you done then, my friend, how many have you caught?
or has your day been lost as well, in long and useless thought?".
"Oh my creel is full", the angler said, "with good fish as you see,
I have no problems choosing flies, I only possess three".
"I started with a black one, and then used green and brown,
I don´t know what they imitate, but the fish just gulped them down".
"What patterns then?" Our angler cried, frustrated, full of anguish,
"Tell me the names of these great flies, let me not in ignorance languish,
I am fairly certain if I knew, that lovely fish then I would also catch,
please tell me what the patterns are, so I may match the hatch".
"I would really like to help you, but to my everlasting shame,
I don´t know what the things are called, they may even have no name".
"I always use the same ones, and with considerable success,
but I know not what these things are called, what they imitate? Much less.
You may try one if you like though, you can even use my gear,
see, a lovely fish is rising, under the weeping willow here".
"I thank you brother angler, I would most gratefully essay a cast,
I would so like to catch a fish, before the opportunity is past"
No sooner said, than done, the gear was handed out,
and angler then essayed his cast, to the large and wary trout.
A perfect rise! A perfect strike! And battle then commenced,
and anglers blood went rushing, as the old rod strongly tensed,
the line sang loudly in the wind, as did the old and creaking reel,
while angler plied them with the greatest skill, the mighty fish to creel.
Long minutes passed, though time stood still, the fish made one last run,
with the greatest care the net was readied, as the fish was not yet done.
Shaking with excitement, but still with perfect nerves, and icy calm,
the fish was landed then at last, and lay there cradled in the anglers palm.
"My friend I thank you heartily, capturing such a prize has made my day,
Do me the honour of your company a while, as we wander on our way.
Your gear is old but solid, and your flies are perfect works of art,
tell me something of yourself, or better yet come sup with me, before we part".
"Right gladly will I do so Sir, congratulations on your lovely fish,
I am glad that I could help a little, in helping you to gain your fervent wish".
The sun sinks ever lower in the summer sky, and at last the day then ends,
its final rays, illuminating strangers of the morning, now forever friends.
TL
MC
Whatever works for you is fine. It doesn't matter what you do or how you do it as long as you enjoy yourself. If you do want to refine your choices somewhat;
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16752.0 (http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16752.0)
There is also some other stuff in the reference section;
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16856.0 (http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16856.0)
TL
MC
QuoteYou can only use sensible logic, ( yes. there are other types!), with regard to fly choice,if you set your selection up in a logical manner to begin with. Trying to select something from a general random ragbag of flies is often unsuccessful. Not least because you don't really know what you have or how to use it, and you are also spoiled for choice.
If you are going to go the generic route, which is very successful indeed when practiced correctly, then you still need a good basic selection of generics. Most of the time it doesn't actually matter much which ones you choose originally as long as you have a general idea when and how to use them. Some people do very well with just a couple of fairly vague generics.
Using specific imitations correctly requires a lot more work to begin with. It is usually more successful than just using generics, but that depends very heavily indeed on the skill and knowledge of the person using them.
Even if you use worms, there are people who will still catch better than you simply because they are better at it.
With regard to the DHE and the CDC and Elk, both are excellent generics, and can also be made more specific if desired. I prefer to use my own patterns, but I have used these and others quite successfully.
For most people half a dozen really well chosen flies would suffice for the majority of the time. Still doesn't stop them carrying hundreds of patterns and hardly ever knowing what to choose! :)
Of MAJOR importance in many cases is how the flies are dressed.
I wholeheartedly agree with all of that.
Quoteyou need to elaborate on this bit, i don't know one fly from another, real ones or made ones, could have learned i guess but i never saw the need, the generic method serves me well, 3 stages of lifecycle of whatever is hatching, relying on timing during a hatch and presentation rather than what the thing is, fussy in other ways i often choose flies purely for their aerodynamic properties and how the float, drift, sit, and obsessive about the fly arriving at the fish before bits of leader, i go to bizarre lengths to prove these things to myself, at the minute I'm messing about with being very accurate and making the fish see the fly land, with blistering results actually, but i often choose a fly based on how fluffy it is rather than anything else
Alan, look at the natural insect from below (talking dries). See the proportions, shape, size. Roughly copy it. Sorted :D As alternatives think of upside down tyings, fluffy cdc, skinny no legs tyings etc etc
Alex
QuoteAs alternatives think of upside down tyings, fluffy cdc, skinny no legs tyings etc etc
Remember to read the important bits :)
Alex
DHE isn't my favourite fly but going down the generic route you can tie a sparkle dun and if it doesn't work take it's tail off. They are otherwise identical. Two flies for the price of one!
Quotei'll pass all this information onto Dave, he's my entomological translator, generally done by handing me the fly, i don't listen past that bit though :D
:lol: :lol: Love it.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on June 16, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
i'll pass all this information onto Dave, he's my entomological translator, generally done by handing me the fly, i don't listen past that bit though :D
reluctant research begun..
Perhaps this will be more useful then? ;
Although the operation was difficult and protracted,
at last with complications the creatures were extracted,
some electrified some fiddled and in fact some soaped
and some at dark of night from wet grass cruelly groped.
Thus armed, our worthy ventured forth upon the morn,
ignoring cries of "baiter", and other signs of scorn,
the master sallied forth to catch a fish, undaunted,
and simply thumbed his nose , at those who taunted.
Arriving at the stream at last, he opened up his beer,
and chose a spot beneath a tree, "Hope there's some fish here! "
impaling then a trophy worm upon an artful hook,
he cast the creature from him into the babbling brook.
A mighty trout of age unknown came to inspect the lure,
but then declined fastidiously saying "God these worms are poor"
"when I was young the worms were fresh, and tasted not of soap"
"and the water too was clearer then and there was cause for hope".
"Anglers were well mannered then and did not curse or drink,
and the water flowing past my home did not foam or stink,
the flies they were abundant and anglers were but rare,
and though they also fished with worms, at least they did it fair".
"How I long for the good old times, with mayflies sailing past,
and rising leisurely now and then to take my fine repast,
the good old times are gone I fear, at a most alarming rate,
and many of my comrades have fallen foul of power bait"
"Plastic worms and deer-hair mice, and even chugging plugs,
I beat them all at last you see, even fine hooked free-lined slugs,
I even triumphed over those who would even stoop so low,
as to bury vicious treble hooks in bags of salmon roe".
"When thinking back, it really is a wonder, that I am still alive,
but I often think it would be nice, if a few more could survive,
most of the trout I get to know, come in a hatchery truck,
and they really are quite stupid, and rarely have much luck".
"My habits now are rather set, and though quite safe I wish,
that I might eat safely something else, I am quite sick of fish.
A tasty worm or a juicy slug, would be a pleasant snack,
but an angler might well catch me then, and refrain to put me back".
"Oh I have been caught a couple of times, but that was long ago,
and it gave me an awful fright, but at least they let me go,
I fear today at my great size, once in the hand of man,
I would never see the stream again, but land up in the pan".
The worm meanwhile on hearing this was pretty much astounded,
and addressed the trout then loudly, who was of course dumbfounded.
" I don't see why you should complain, your problems seem to pass,
but what the hell am I supposed to do with a hook stuck up my ass?"
"My life was fine till one dread day, by an angler I was found,
fiddled about, electrified and soaped, and very nearly drowned,
my brothers and my sisters were also very roughly caught,
and in a filthy rusty can to the stream here we were brought".
"Now here I sit uncomfortably, no chance for squirms or wiggles,
and you have the audacity to bore me with your stupid moans and niggles"
"Well" said the trout, "that is enough, from you I think my friend",
and snapped the worm up in his mouth, his honour to defend.
Our worthy on the bank then saw his bobber dipping in the brook,
and stumbling drunken to his feet, he heaved and set the hook.
The trout fought well and long, but alas at last was in the net,
our worthy celebrated with another beer, he is celebrating yet.
The moral of this story is of course quite plain to all who angle,
when you fish with worms make sure you choose the cheeky ones to dangle,
they upset the fish much more, and are eaten then for their presumption,
even though well soaped, electrified, and drowned, and unfit for consumption!
I am still working on cheeky flies! :)
TL
MC
Alan, you are nuts. But in a nice way :lol:
I think I might be nuts too :)
Alex
Quote from: Alan on June 16, 2012, 01:20:23 AM
Mike i'm Glaswegian, i need pictures to go with poetry, actually thats more poetry than i have ever read previously, your a good influence,
the cheeky fly is what I'm toying with,
i hope to bring it beyond a myth,
find a cruiser and land it near,
pick a moment without when he as no fear,
as if by magic the next meal lands,
and instinct makes her final demand,
and at that moment he realised this was not an imago,
it was a fkn sedgehog on a line of dayglo,
how could such a mistake be made,
it landed in time and place before instinct did fade.
No problem at all, you obviously have talent ( I'm not sure what for though! :) ).
First lesson; there's poetry and there's doggerel,
This is poetry,
Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening.
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Robert Frost
This is doggerel; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerel)
Nobody is really sure what this is, and many hardly understand a word, but Scotsmen become extremely incensed if you suggest it might not be poetry;
A Bottle And Friend
1787
Type: song
There's nane that's blest of human kind,
But the cheerful and the gay, man,
Fal, la, la, &c.
Here's a bottle and an honest friend!
What wad ye wish for mair, man?
Wha kens, before his life may end,
What his share may be o' care, man?
Then catch the moments as they fly,
And use them as ye ought, man:
Believe me, happiness is shy,
And comes not aye when sought, man.
Robert Burns.
There is however little doubt that he knew what he was talking about, even if it is in dialect. I am told that even Glaswegians have little problem with it.
You also obviously know of what you speak, maybe you could try it in dialect?
( All in fun! Nice to read what others write).
TL
MC
Quote from: Alan on June 16, 2012, 01:54:04 AM
the doggerel stuff makes perfect sense, the poetry lacks a certain something, connection to the human condition perhaps as we actually experience it, listen to me, poetry critic after reading....one :lol:
how did we get from sedgehogs to poetry anyway, you lot are clearly drunker than me, which is impressive.
Ahah, that's a worthy talent, try art next. Bound to be a success. If you can't tell the difference between a pile of bricks and a Da Vinci, you'll be laughing! :) Seems to be a major requirement for art critics.
Drunk? Not a drop, I'm always like this ! :)
TL
MC
Out to the loch I made my way,
determined for a whumper,
A sedgehog made with claret seal,
I had stuck in me jumper.
It took a while to get it out,
because it was all tangled,
but then I caught a lovely trout,
although the fly was mangled.
So hear my words you anglers bold,
wherever you may venture,
forget those fancy flies and stuff,
and ignore other's censure.
( Continue as desired, details of the loch, incredible casting involved (or not...), the fish, and the epic battle which ensued, preferably in rhyme.................)
The last verse should probably be something like,
When they saw my lovely fish,
they wished me all to hell,
but I didn't give a shite,
though me jumper was knackered as well.
But do try to be restrained with the profanity, too much of it ruins the effect. Also, although there are quite a few things which rhyme with "luck" it's best to avoid some of them. Deliberate mistakes in meter or rhyme may be used for emphasis, but it should really be obvious that it is a deliberate "mistake", otherwise people may well assume that you are only barely literate! They'll probably think you are nuts, or some sort of pansy anyway, so there is no point in worrying about that! :) ( May one say "pansy" nowadays? Or is it tulip or daffodil now? I know you can't say "gay" any more unless you are walking naked up a main road, holding up traffic, and "protesting" about how proud you are to be gay). This has certainly put a crimp in some people's reputations, this guy for instance;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gay)
He is hardly ever mentioned now.............although I still think the couplet he added to his own epitaph is one of the best I have seen;
Life is a jest, and all things show it,
I thought so once, and now I know it.
John Gay.
TL
MC
Quote from: Alan on June 16, 2012, 02:07:47 PM
more to this poetry lark than i thought, is doggerel in some way viewed as lesser than proper poetry? it strikes me as considerably more relevant artistically.
Basically , yes, although it is a matter of perception. Some might think a particular piece was poetry, and others would say it was doggerel. I don't really care much, I just write various stuff for amusement, what people call it is up to them! :)
TL
MC