Just tying up some flies to fill the gaps in my box and put in some flies that I can use in different situations. I've used streamers a few times as a roll of the dice but think they are definately worth more time on my cast. Interested to hear anyone's views on this, how you fish them, when you fish them and probably most importantly which flies you use....is it all woolly buggers or are folks using other flies? I would appreciate pictures of your favourites because I'm basically going to steal your ideas 😉 to start the ball rolling here's one I just tied and have had some luck with in the past, size 8 xtra long
[attachimg=1]
I wouldnt be without a humungous for browns, very obvious choice but I think its all you need in Scotland.It has flash,weight and doesnt foul easily, covers all the fry and smaller fish a brownie would eat.
Kelly Galloups streamers would be worth a google although some patterns are articulated requiring beadalon and beads.
Chtis.
A big magpie tail
I've hooked some very good fish on rivers using a yellow Zoo Cougar on a fast sinktip and a 3' leader
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-nTbSM9GhyY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Lost a belter on the river on a Sex Dungeon too in olive and orange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNMONDokgA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNMONDokgA)
I really only fish streamers in coloured water, but I'm sure they will work in clear water too.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on March 21, 2016, 09:17:09 PM
Lost a belter on the river on a Sex Dungeon too in olive and orange
Alex
I was nervous googling that one but that's one heck of a fly :shock:
Quote from: haresear on March 21, 2016, 09:17:09 PM
I've hooked some very good fish on rivers using a yellow Zoo Cougar on a fast sinktip and a 3' leader
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-nTbSM9GhyY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Lost a belter on the river on a Sex Dungeon too in olive and orange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNMONDokgA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNMONDokgA)
I really only fish streamers in coloured water, but I'm sure they will work in clear water too.
Alex
Have you ever had any success with the boogieman Alex,tied a few recently for a cast in the lochs very much like a double cougar.
Chris
Quote from: lnelson20 on March 21, 2016, 09:46:33 PM
Have you ever had any success with the boogieman Alex,tied a few recently for a cast in the lochs very much like a double cougar.
Chris
Actually the big fish I lost that I referred to earlier took something more like the Boogie Man than the Sex Dungeon, although it was marabou based. I can't find my streamer box (or my camera). I might have a photo somewhere, so I'll try to post a pic later.
Alex
I found a photo. the yellow fly is a Zoo Cougar. The olive and orange articulated fly is the same one that lost the big river fish. It's still a bit wet.
These are pretty hefty big flies ! it does make you wonder how far you could go with big flies for trout. I bet they'd work a treat on places like loch Garry and Dunallister.
I will have a go at tying them Alex
Thanks
Chris
Quote from: rannoch raider on March 21, 2016, 11:15:24 PM
These are pretty hefty big flies ! it does make you wonder how far you could go with big flies for trout. I bet they'd work a treat on places like loch Garry and Dunallister.
I'm sure they would work fine on many lochs.
As for how big to go. Well, I've caught a not particularly big sea trout on a live 6oz roach from Lomond in the '90s and I know of quite a few trout taken on half herring and whole sardine baits.
Come to think of it, a mate used a charr livebait about 9" long on a trossachs loch and had a 5lb...ish brownie on his first cast.
These captures on livebaits were a number of years back before it was made illegal.
Alex
Quote from: lnelson20 on March 21, 2016, 11:22:42 PM
I will have a go at tying them Alex
Thanks
Chris
I'll try to get you a better photo Chris. I found my camera - all we need now is the box of streamers :)
I didn't tie those, incidentally. The Zoo Cougars I buy from the Big Y Fly Co. (USA) and the olive/orange thing was one of many outsized and outlandish streamers kindly posted to me free of charge from NZ by Peter Carty, one of NZ's top guides.
Alex
Alex
I've caught a number of big sea trout on Lomond with pike baits. One was on a popped up roach in Balmaha Bay. My most recent was at the end of the season two year ago on a trolled roach deadbait. Both were in double figures. I had a very nice brown on a popped up sprat in Kilbirnie Loch too. I suppose we wouldn't think twice about trolling 6 inch plugs for them but I've never considered going so big on a fly rod. I must tie a few of these and give it a try.
Those are big flies and I've fished ones as big unsuccessfully but know folk who've been luckier. My two biggest trout last year were on a 4 and a half inch rapala so have faith flies of that size would work well. The ones you've been tying Jim for pike are similar to what I've fished at Garry albeit only taking pike. It's probably the case that we are all reluctant to try bigger flies because the perceived wisdom is that tiny, subtle flies will fool the biggest fish, I'm not sure that's the case and after flogging a big fly for an hour or more with no interest is easy to go back to 'the norm' and start getting fish again. It's probably down to how much you're willing to suffer for that specimen fish on the fly!
This is one tied on the rod in the garage at the moment:
[attachimg=1]
A sort of Humongous/Shuggie type thing which worked well for me last season - the first season I made a concerted effort to fish steamers due to lack of rising fish. Worked well too with a better than average size of fish. Only blanks so far this season though :) I tie them in 6 or 8 and sometimes with dumbbell eyes for more weight/movement - not so good for casting however. tried wooly buggers but without much success.
have used zoo cougars for a few years now. nothing mega (one very decent pollack), but it's surprising the size of trout that'll jump on a big streamer!
the Kelly galloup book is fairly mind-expanding, especially for uk anglers. of course there'll always be those who'll say "it only works for American trout"...... :roll:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Streamers-Trophy-Trout-Techniques/dp/0881506729/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458635086&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=big+streamers+for+trophy+trout (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Streamers-Trophy-Trout-Techniques/dp/0881506729/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458635086&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=big+streamers+for+trophy+trout)
there's more information here than you can possibly take in at a sitting. and lots of nicely shot pics of funky patterns
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strip-Set-Fly-Fishing-Techniques-Patterns-Streamers/dp/0811712974/ref=pd_sim_sbs_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=61jQR0cNW5L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR122%2C160_&refRID=003EB1QVH9YPNYD8VBH6 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Strip-Set-Fly-Fishing-Techniques-Patterns-Streamers/dp/0811712974/ref=pd_sim_sbs_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=61jQR0cNW5L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR122%2C160_&refRID=003EB1QVH9YPNYD8VBH6)
Tied this up similar to what John (part time) posted above but I'll have a bash at one of the big deer hair doodas later, not articulated though I've not got the gubbins! I've underworld this so its a fair chunky mouthful and on the size 8 extra long again but much more substantial because of the tail
[attachimg=1]
Underwired! Damn autocorrect!
And finally......[attachimg=1]
How often do I have to tell you lot? You only need 2 streamers.
1. A big olive woolly bugger with white legs and a skull head
2. A Suzie
Get on board the winning bandwagon guys. :lol:
I wish you'd told me before I tied that deer hair head :roll: :lol:
Any chance of a pic of the suzie?
Quote from: Lochan_load on March 22, 2016, 04:53:46 PM
Any chance of a pic of the suzie?
First you need a border collie like the one in my avatar with very fine hair and a good temperament (so that you don't get bitten as you approach with the scissors) it helps if they have a gammy leg and can't run away. :lol: I'll see if I can find a picture of the fly.
[attachimg=1]
The Suzie
[attachimg=2]
The Result 6lb Grey River N.Z. sea runner
PS they work better if you have one of those auld mannie beards. :lol:
http://midcurrent.com/flies/back-to-the-future-the-flies-of-greg-senyo/ (http://midcurrent.com/flies/back-to-the-future-the-flies-of-greg-senyo/)
fun!
this is a fun idea, too
http://midcurrent.com/techniques/heretics-guide-to-fly-fishing/ (http://midcurrent.com/techniques/heretics-guide-to-fly-fishing/)
#3 Miniaturize to the Max
Our next outside-the-box idea involves taking traditionally large patterns and tying them in the miniature. If you fish muskies, you know that large, multi-shank flies with plenty of reverse-tied bucktail and saddle feathers swim like eels and push a ton of water. And if you tie these flies yourself you know that the sheer amount of material affords interesting options when it comes to stacking and combining colors. So how about we try downsizing those big Bufords into trout- and bass-sized portions? Our early forays into mini musky flies are indeed telling us that these flies have a place on the end of your 7 weight.
While we're downsizing, take a look at your streamer box and ask what other patterns can be significantly downsized. A mini Sex Dungeon for spring creek trout and Great Lakes carp? A pine squirrel Krakken? What about a tiny Murdich minnow or the smallest feathered Game Changer of all time? You may need to tinker around a bit with balance and proportion to get the right action, but once you do, fishing these smaller flies might give you a leg up on the competition, especially in the spring.
Quote from: admin on March 22, 2016, 05:06:46 PM
PS they work better if you have one of those auld mannie beards. :lol:
And a face like a burst welly 😂 Or is the smile lost in the fuzz.
My mate Brian runs a salmon syndicate on the Cumbrian Eden right at the bottom end,last summer he told me a guy went out spinning when the river was huge, dirty and most folk would have went home.He caught browns of 7lb 6lb and 2 about 4lb on a fire tiger rapala.
Brian wasn't surprised and reckons these trout only get caught in such conditions on the spinner.I would imagine the yellow zoo cougar would work just as well fished on a sinking line Galloup style.
I fish mine with around 18" leader/tippet max. that's on 8lb minimum, straight to the fly line, which is usually an efs mine-sweeper. if you watch a zoo-cougar or similar in action you'll see the movement is highly erratic and would put most lures to shame. those mallard flanks are pretty pricey tho', especially the large ones.
has anyone used different feathers for these transverse wing flies?
btw: i'm fairly sure the zoo cougar would be great for comizo barbel.... :wink:
If you were fishing a big fish loch with these streamers what would you use tackle wise. Would you stillbirths an 18"leader in clear water or would you weight the fly, which I suspect might affect it's action.
Quote from: bibio1 on March 23, 2016, 07:35:37 AM
If you were fishing a big fish loch with these streamers what would you use tackle wise. Would you stillbirths an 18"leader in clear water or would you weight the fly, which I suspect might affect it's action.
when a fish wants to eat one of these it's not bothered about the leader, I can assure you :8) the length of the leader is only to determine the maximum height the fly rides above the bottom. I've often gone shorter, especially where i'm expecting takes "on the drop". that's so I can keep in touch. last year I was fishing for carp in gin-clear water with maybe 8" of 15lb. I could see the fly dropping through the water from the bank at 20 feet away. and the fish hitting it! make any untoward movements on the bank & the fish were spooked
Very interesting. I think I'll tie some articulated Kelly galloup flies like the sex dungeon and boogie man.
I am fishing a big fish loch in June so want to be prepared.
This is a very interesting thread for someone who's fish dries on Rivers and traditional on lochs.
Been thinking about this a lot today. Do any of the experts think it would be worthwhile doing an articulated stickle back imitation?
The other thing is that these steamers seem way overly big. Am I missing something?
Quote from: bibio1 on March 23, 2016, 10:36:50 PM
The other thing is that these steamers seem way overly big. Am I missing something?
yes! :lol: have a look at the real size of the jaws of the next trout you catch. much larger than you'd imagine
but you can still dress streamer patterns on a size #12, for instance. have fun; experiment!
plus, at the risk of labouring the point, grab yourself a copy of Kelly Galloup's book or do a google search and listen to one of his interviews
I've been watching a couple of kelly gallops shorter videos on YouTube while at work(shhh!) interesting stuff. I'll finish off an articulated fly i was tying before I came in for the shift and post it up soon, the flying hook is a 6 and the main hook a size 2 osprey saltwater hook :shock: it might still take some mental adjustment before I can fish it instead of my usual size 10's :lol:
Quote from: corsican dave on March 23, 2016, 11:03:54 PM
yes! :lol: have a look at the real size of the jaws of the next trout you catch. much larger than you'd imagine
but you can still dress streamer patterns on a size #12, for instance. have fun; experiment!
plus, at the risk of labouring the point, grab yourself a copy of Kelly Galloup's book or do a google search and listen to one of his interviews
My introduction to Kelly Galloup's patterns and the "jerk-strip" retrieve came via a guy I occasionally have a day out with. He introduced me to the Zoo Cougar and the Sex Dungeon. I ordered some from the States, but they aren't really all that huge. The Zoo Cougars are about a size 4 or 2 longish shank, which is admittedly huge compared to our usual dry flies etc., but it isn't really a jawbreaker for a good sized trout.
one of the NZ guides, Pet Carty gave me a selection of his big outlandish creations and these really are big in volume as well as length, especially the articulated jobs.
I had by now already been experimenting with the Zoo Cougar and had been hooking (but mainly losing) good fish, so I knew they would work. One day when the river was high and coloured I had a very big fish flash at the yellow ZC as it came in to the bank. it happened again but the fish never hit the fly. At this point I would add that the yellow ZC lets you watch the fly in the water, which lets you adjust your retrieve to get the right effect. It also makes the take a visual affair which can be exciting.
Anyway, after the big fish had refused the ZC, I had a look around to make sure nobody was watching me tie on the monstrous Peter Carty affair that I then tied on. First cast I was hit by the big fish which had followed the fly almost to the bank before taking. This was a fish of I would estimate 6lb minimum (remember I have caught a lot of fish about that size and much bigger in NZ). It made a couple of runs and came off :(
I still really only use streamers in big water when I can't really do much else through personal preference for dry fly and I would never use them when I can use a dry fly or a nymph for that matter, but when I fish streamers I am no longer afraid of pushing the boundaries size-wise.
I'll close by saying that I have watched big trout chase smaller trout, parr or grayling on several occasions. On one of these occasions I had some more modest sized streamers with me and got a few trout to follow but not take. I now wonder what would have happened had I used the big flies I am now using.
Alex
:shock:
[attachimg=1]
Quote from: Lochan_load on March 23, 2016, 11:48:02 PM
:shock:
[attachimg=1]
That'll work (if it doesn't knock you out :)). You would get on well with Peter Carty of NZ :lol:
Alex
It's nuts!
It looks fantastic though, really pleased with how it's turned out. Just need to grow a set now and throw it at some fish!
It may be stating the obvious but the weight of these flies if tied with lead dumbells should not be underestemated.After a couple of hours on tuesday i was thankfull l had tied a couple of lighter deer hair head over chain bead eyes.Also gives the option of fishing a longer leader .
Chris
Quote from: lnelson20 on March 24, 2016, 12:38:28 AM
It may be stating the obvious but the weight of these flies if tied with lead dumbells should not be underestemated.After a couple of hours on tuesday i was thankfull l had tied a couple of lighter deer hair head over chain bead eyes.Also gives the option of fishing a longer leader .
Chris
Yes, flies like these dumbell eyed jobs are difficult to cast safely. You run the risk of belting yourself or your rod with them as they swing around a fair bit. A heavier fly line helps to keep them under control to a degree.
Although I cast clousers, fish-skulls and the like at times, I prefer to use asinking line to get the flies down. I have a Cortland 333 WF6 ST (it's a long fast sink-tip) that I bought for bull trout fishing in Canada. It casts well for a fast sink tip and is my standard streamer line when fishing rivers, as I usually do.
Alex
The other amazing thing galloup says is that almost 80% of the flies he ties don't swim well or "hunt" as he put it.
I'm going to give this articulated fly tying a go. Not with massive flies to start with.
also worth a look, especially for the photo at the end
https://hiptothestrip.com/hidden-water-2/
Circus peanut and boogie men,the boogies are to heavy for my liking and for the bin :D
Quote from: lnelson20 on March 24, 2016, 01:14:05 PM
Circus peanut and boogie men,the boogies are to heavy for my liking and for the bin :D
There will certainly plenty of movement and life about these guys, that's for sure!
Quote from: lnelson20 on March 24, 2016, 01:14:05 PM
Circus peanut and boogie men,the boogies are to heavy for my liking and for the bin :D
Yes all fit for the bin, send them to me and I will deal with them :lol:
Quote from: haresear on March 21, 2016, 11:36:20 PM
I'll try to get you a better photo Chris. I found my camera - all we need now is the box of streamers :)
I didn't tie those, incidentally. The Zoo Cougars I buy from the Big Y Fly Co. (USA) and the olive/orange thing was one of many outsized and outlandish streamers kindly posted to me free of charge from NZ by Peter Carty, one of NZ's top guides.
Alex
Alex
I found a better photo of the big articulated streamer I lost that big troot on.....
That's really nice. Not many would associate that colour scheme with trout but as was said earlier the firetiger rapala gets it's fair share so why not ? It looks to be very well tied.
Quote from: rannoch raider on March 25, 2016, 01:13:25 AM
That's really nice. Not many would associate that colour scheme with trout but as was said earlier the firetiger rapala gets it's fair share so why not ? It looks to be very well tied.
It was not tied by me I hasten to add :) That was dreamed up, tied and photographed by Pete Carty who comes up with some real crackers. Some actually look like flies :lol:
On the colour scheme, another Kiwi guide, Chris Dore swears by a purple zonker type thing dead drifted on the river.
Makes you look at yourself as a clad-in-tweeds type eh? :lol:
Alex
I don't think there's much doubt that as trout fishers, no, make that fly fishers, most of us are a bit stuffy and traditionalist in our choice of patterns and tactics. It's definitely worth experimenting. If you spotted any of the larger Baltic sea trout patterns I tied recently it might interest you to know that I have had three decent outings when I have given the bigger prawn style and shrimp patterns a short swim and followed that with a quick but not too committed go with a few more bigger and brighter Danish patterns. To be honest, I've not really fished any of these with real confidence and I have occasionally deserted them and stuck on one or two better known Scottish patterns in the hope that I'd get the desired result. So far I haven't had a sniff ! My mate who has been starting these sessions with the lure rod has had a number of fish on a variety of lures. However, he always devotes the last hour or so of our outings to the fly rod and likes to arm himself from my fly box. The big (size 4 and three inches) Pink Pig with the spey hackles caught his eye as did a fairly substantial white, silver and olive clouser that was intended for sea bass. He has always had a few fish under his belt prior to changing to the fly and he is far more inclined than I am to just persevere with his choice of larger pattern before we pack it in. So far, this has worked for him and he has caught consistently on these bigger patterns and is taking great pleasure in reminding me of that fact at every opportunity :lol:. He takes the view that as they've been hitting 3 inch spoons all day then they'll be just as happy to hit a three inch fly pattern. He also believes that when the water is cold and rough, a 3 inch fly may be 'required' to convince a fairly inactive fish that the effort made in chasing such a large pattern will be well rewarded with a substantial meal. Perhaps the same applies to fishing big streamers over here ? Sticking at it with a bit of confidence might well be an eye opener in some conditions ! It's got to be worth a try.
Not quite right....will keep practicing.
I am becoming quite obsessed with this.
That looks good to me!
I'm gettin a bit obsessed with the idea too!
I think it'll fish but didn't leave enough room at the head.
Next one will be better.
fun tho', isn't it? :D
I just added this to my library
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fusion-Fly-Tying-Steelhead-Synthetic/dp/1634503961/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458913027&sr=1-1&keywords=greg+senyo (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fusion-Fly-Tying-Steelhead-Synthetic/dp/1634503961/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458913027&sr=1-1&keywords=greg+senyo)
Does all this mean that sometimes I will have something bigger on the end of my cast than is often the case ?? :? :?
Quote from: Bobfly on March 25, 2016, 04:47:32 PM
Does all this mean that sometimes I will have something bigger on the end of my cast than is often the case ?? :? :?
:lol: :lol:
Alex
Quote from: haresear on March 25, 2016, 12:47:12 AM
I found a better photo of the big articulated streamer I lost that big troot on.....
Thanks Alex, will have a wee go at that.
Chris
I'm more of a size 18 sherry spinner man. :lol:
I love fishing spinner patterns as well but for me I am now coming to the conclusion this branch of our sport is seriously under researched.
I think this is the case for very good reasons. Primarily the tackle advances and innovative fly tying techniques means you can fish on any water.
On our larger rivers in particular the opportunities are immense.
Quote from: bibio1 on March 26, 2016, 10:40:38 AM
I am now coming to the conclusion this branch of our sport is seriously under researched.
Came to that conclusion years ago. There is nothing more conservative than a Scottish fly fisher. It is changing, slowly.
I've seen 1lb trout chase 3 inch tobys I'm sure it would be no different to a big streamer. I also have been using little flies and not having any luck while on the same fish using spinning methods just pulls them out. Some thing to be learnt here.
Quote from: bibio1 on March 26, 2016, 10:40:38 AM
I am now coming to the conclusion this branch of our sport is seriously under researched.
only in the uk. Americans
way ahead of us. one of the oldest books in my collection: joe brooks - complete book of fly fishing 1958 has some pretty hefty streamer patterns
lefty's deceiver? 1958 (obviously a good year!) bob clouser's eponymous minnow? late 70's
the seaducer pattern dates from around the 1900s!
the british response (if you can call it that....) Gordon Fraser- mastering the nymph 1987? mentions the booby for reservoir stockies, but otherwise dull as ditchwater. tweed hat & troutmaster badges ZZZzzzzz
I can sense a spey stravaig coming on.
Quote from: bibio1 on March 27, 2016, 09:49:41 PM
I can sense a spey stravaig coming on.
aye, you keep your greasy puds off my book collection, Paul! :lol:
joking aside, yep; it'd be a hoot. upper spey, I reckon :8)
Quote from: bibio1 on March 26, 2016, 10:40:38 AM
On our larger rivers in particular the opportunities are immense.
I think that's definitely the case when you think about some of the accidental captures of big trout by salmon fishers. My second biggest trout ever was caught when fishing for salmon on the Spey and on another Spey beat the guy I was fishing with had two trout well over 3lb on a Stoats Tail - both caught in the same run about 5 minutes apart! A Don salmon fisher I know used to catch quite a few big trout (I saw the pics) - if he saw a good trout move he used to cast his salmon fly over it and strip it back fast and would often get it to take; his most successful fly for this he said was a 6 inch Sunray Shadow!!
You will not be allowed to fish streamers on our larger rivers unless you have paid for salmon fishing. In fact if the SNP's current plans become law you won't be able to fish our larger rivers at all for trout.
having looked through this thoroughly now, there is some seriously funky shit in here
http://globalflyfisher.com/review/fusion-fly-tying (http://globalflyfisher.com/review/fusion-fly-tying)
although I had to look up how to attach the hook to the intruder style patterns. doh! :roll:
Senyos name does come up a lot when you research this topic. He does seem a very creative fly tyer, which usually translates into an innovative fly fisher.
Looking forward to.hearing your main findings.
Quote from: admin on March 28, 2016, 08:21:42 AM
You will not be allowed to fish streamers on our larger rivers unless you have paid for salmon fishing. In fact if the SNP's current plans become law you won't be able to fish our larger rivers at all for trout.
Who knows where the wild fisheries review will end up but you cant fish a size 16 klink either on many of our big rivers without paying for a salmon ticket :D I'd guess on some of the big rivers that offer separate trout and salmon tickets it depends on what the rules are - if there are rules on hook size or breaking strain I suppose they could restrict you using streamers. That said I dont remember any such restrictions for the last ticket like that I bought for the Tummel. Some of the club/association beats on the big rivers should also give a chance to try streamers for trout at a reasonable cost
I tried the Dave fly today i blanked but the fly it's self had success as a brownie of about 14oz to 1lb followed it until I had run out of water usually this water doesn't produce at all if fishing natruals and drys. I would of kept going with the big streamer but unfortunately a tree claimed it. That's proof enough for me though.
well done for trying! just proves that if you don't you'll never know... :8)