Not really into tying ma own flies but came across theses ...sure one or twa would rise a broon troot on our own home waters . works of art some of them
http://www.solarexpert.com/fishing/more-fly-tying.html
What beauties. Wonder what they cost. Would be feart to put
them in the water in case they were ruined by a fish!!!
Davie
They remind me of mine :lol:
Absolute crackers. Probably the most realistic I've ever seen. It must take ages to tie them. I'll bet he doesn't enter many fly swaps :lol:
Alex
http://www.solarexpert.com/photography/dragonfly_photography.html
put to test
Brilliant
Wonder if he wants a week's holiday in Inverness in the fishing season
:?
Davie
Wow. Amazing stuff involving the dragonflies.
I would be happy enough to be able to take photos like that, never mind tie his flies.
alex
I wonder if they actually catch fish?
Truly works of art. Amazin.
It'd be a right bugger though, if you stuck one on and some daft wee perch chewed it up :shock:
Jesus,
I would have the first one cooking on ma barbie, never mind fishing with it. :lol: :lol:
All the best
Hungry Richy.
Amazing indeed - and certainly works of art. I'd be happy to give them wall space. Perhaps not on the end of a line though in most cases.
This stuff does beg the question - why do we tie flies? Is it to get a fish, or is it for the pure pleasure of constructing the fly. I'll admit to getting distracted by the act of tying and making up (nearly said designing, but that would be a bit tooo poncey for what I do!).
QuoteThis stuff does beg the question - why do we tie flies? Is it to get a fish, or is it for the pure pleasure of constructing the fly.
Mine are purely for catching fish, although they don't seem to know that :(.
I don't really enjoy tying flies and find setting up my vice etc. a bit of a chore to be honest. Having said that, once I've got the gear together I don't mind the actual tying too much.
I've just moved my stuff into the loft and intend to have it set up full time to make it easier for me just to nip up to a tie a few. it also means i won't have to tidy up :). I'll just add the excess feathers to the loft insulation.
Incidentally, when designing and tying dries, I always look at the effect from the underside of the fly and against the light rather than from the side. It is what the fish sees that really matters.
Alex
QuoteBased on recent findings that fish actually see very little of a fully blown dun , (just a few footprints) our flies complete with hook penetrating the surface are presented very differantly( unless tied upside down)
That's right Col. I made a gallows tool and tied a couple of proper Goddard and Clarke USD duns, but they were fiddly for me and liable to twisting the leader.
I've tried various methods in the past to get an easy to tie USD dun.
This included exaggerated tails tied well around the bend. These, along with a hackle trimmed on the topside as the hook sits in the vice, forces the fly to flip over and land hook up. Sounds good in theory and it does work, but the aerodynamics which cause the fly to land hook up are the same forces which cause it to spin like a mepps :( .
It is a subject I am guilty of abandoning and one of the many things I'll have to get around to before this season...
Alex
Try a Leckford Professor or Cows Arse is its other name :)
Hook:- 12-16
Body:- dark hare's ear fur
Rib:- Fine flat gold tinsel
Hackles:- A bright red cock hackle and a white cock hackle tied in at the bend hiding the point of the fly. Alternative is to tie in a hackle stalk or white floss like a tail and wrap the hackle parachute style round it.
This is the way my mate George tied them. He had 22 Grayling on the Earn on one from the same drift during a hatch of Pale Watery Duns :) They hang in the water with the eye and line below the surface and the hackle and wing, if you go with that method, on the surface.
QuoteA bright red cock hackle and a white cock hackle tied in at the bend hiding the point of the fly.
I had forgotten about that method Sandy. It is one I never got around to trying and should be as aerodynamic as a standard pattern. Definitely another one for to try. Thanks.
Alex
dont know if this is legal but here is a photie
http://www.danica.com/Flytier/jwestphal/leckford_professor.htm
Davie
The hackles are a bit rough for a dry fly on that tying and I don't like the bent hook as it throws the outline of the fly off. Here is a better picture showing it tyed as it should be, although I prefer a down eyed hook :)
http://www.fish4flies.com/Dry/Hackled/Leckford_Professor.Gallery
Good site Sandy, thank you. Great looking fly. Really have to make sure your leader was sinking.
Davie
Re the Leckford Prof. If you trimmed the top of the hackle in a V shape and also used a down eye hook, that should make it land USD every time and also give a nice footprint in the surface film. The tail end of the hook is also a more logical place to have the line coming from rather than the head. The line could be mistaken for a tail or shuck.
I'm definitely going to try some prototype ideas along these lines.
Olive flexifloss body or stripped peacock quill, with a dun hackle. Those Clyde troot will be easy meat (aye right).
I'm not so sure that the leader would have to be sunk and can't see why it would any more desirable on a back-to-front fly than a standard pattern. After all, in the F-fly the leader is flush with the surface too.
Why do you think so, Davy. Is it because the leader is flush rather than being held slightly aloft in a properly cocked traditional pattern?
Alex
Alex
That's the thing about this fly, it tends to land like an umbrella with the body below the surface pushing the leader under, like a ? mark, as long as you keep any grease off the body and leader that is close to the hook. I use spider dries most of the time because I reckon it doesn't matter what way they land on the water they will always look right. Put a wing on them and you feel they should always float with the wing cocked up, but how many times have you looked at a rise of fly and some of them are stuck in the film with their wings flat to the side, so does it really matter :)
Jeez. As I said in another post - you think you've discovered the big secret then
along comes another fly to disprove the rule. When I fish the DHE I am not worried
that some of the floatant attaches itself to the leader as I want the head of the fly
to be clear of the water to aid the body of the fly to be in or below the surface.
That fly was my most successful by far last season and I have tied more than enough
for this season. I would surmise that the success of the fly you are recommending, depends
on the eye and body being in or under the surface. My concern with the floating leader would
be that this would suspend most of the fly above the surface...............but.
My friend John, as I have said in another post, always has a Loch Maddy fly on his cast and this
is treated with floatant and very little of the fly would penetrate either in or under the surface.
This fly has been as successful for him as the DHE has been for me. So I have tied more than enough
of these as well for the coming season :D Can I also add that another fly he has introduced me too
has a substantial deer hair body, a feather (compressed with finger nails) just a bit longer than the body as a wing and a hackle to finish it off. This fly invariably lands wing side up with very little of the body
either in or on the surface. What amazes me is that the trout cannot see most of the fly yet they take
it with great gusto. My only conclusion to this is that the trout must see more than we think or
that the deer hair makes the kind of footprint the trout is looking for. I wonder if we would catch as
many fish with just the deer hair but I have never been brave enough to try.
Anyway............I appreciate the amount I have learnt since joining the site, I wish I could join in more
of the stravaigs but for the time being cannot. Some of the posts really make me laugh, please keep up
the good work
All the very best for the New Year
Davie
Quotesurely the last thing you want when fishing dries particularly on still waters is a floating leader?
I suppose my point is that, with the leader coming from the tail end, it could be more readily accepted by the fish as being part of the fly (a shuck or tail).
alex
Col,
I really like the look of that USD fly. Another one for the box.
The only thing I don't like is the fattish abdomen. I would probably use flexifloss for this (on an olive pattern), and either foam or nymphskin for the thorax but I'm sure the foam thorax would do fine for bigger flies, say March Brown upwards in size.
Thanks, Alex
Sorry to be the voive of discontent, but I do not think they are actually that good. I have seen far better
than those protrayed. I sometime wonder what the motive is for doing such a think especially the "non fishing" beasties. Where does fly tying start & end & Arts & Crafts take over. Shades of Blus Peter perhaps
Tight lines
'Highlanders comments on Arts and crafts in fly tying hark me back to the Flydressers Guild who wanted to introduce a formal Qualification for fly dressers, as I was a fly tier I left forthwith'
I have to ask WHY????
Who are the fly police that say you have to tie flies one way or another?? Some tie for catching fish, some for catching anglers! Some as a means to an end, some as an end in itself, some (particularly shop bought flies) to earn a crust who have never seen a trout far less fished for one.
As for 'qualifications', whats wrong with that?? Would you send your children to a school where the teachers had no qualifications?? Would you trust you life to a drtiver or pilot who wasn't qualified?? I'm sure you've seen plenty of anglers who were taught to cast by 'unqualified' instructors and how many problems result.
Sure there are thosewho use qualifications as an ego massaging thing but it's surely good to know that the person whos offering advice has proved to someone that they are at an accceptable standard and they have put in some time & effort to pass??
I've managed to become 'qualified' in casting/fishing for trout & in fly tying, but it sure as hell doesn't mean I'm a brilliant (or even good) fly tyer/caster but I am willing to put something back into my hobby(passion!) in grateful thanks for all the pleasure its given me.
Peter
To be honest I am not sure about this qualification stuff when it comes to fishing. It is something I have thought about doing myself but I am still just not sure about it. Yes, if looking for an instructor in anything at all it's useful to know they are at a certain standard but I keep coming back to thinking that fishing is something I do to escape from the regimented side of life. That said I would not hesitate to use the services of an instructor if I wanted to brush up on my casting, but I struggle to see the benefits of a fly tying qualification. Where is the demand for qualified fly tiers coming from or am I missing something?
Over thirty years ago now, I was asked to join the FDG, and also the APGAI. I declined gracefully. I dislike regimentation in any form, apart from which, such things inevitably result in "Structures", these structures cause problems. I don?t even like fishing clubs much, because they always end up being run by "politicians" and not anglers. Politicians are mainly interested in getting other people to do what they want. That is the nature of the beast.
There are basically only two reasons for "Qualifications", one is to make money, and the other is to feed one?s ego. Any sport or pastime which becomes regimented loses as a result of it. "Professionals" are considered "better" than amateurs, purely because they do something for money.
Fishing is freedom, and only a fool limits his own freedom.
Apart from which, I have never yet met a fish which asked for my qualifications...........................
TL
MC
This getting a bit off-topic I know but as a lad being a member of a local club that had it's own water I thought clubs were the dogs bollox. Then when I was a bit older I realised that clubs did not all have waters and I wondered what the point of such a club might be? Outings and competitions I suppose, but these days most folk are mobile to at least some extent and the number of anglers who approve / participate in competition angling seems to be falling – from what I hear folk saying anyway and from what I read on forums. My own experience has been that competitions have the ability to bring out the very worst in anglers so there is no way I would ever take part. So what I wonder is the point of clubs with no waters now? Arranging bulk discounts or, in an ideal world to present a united front to government? My experience is that most club members seldom agree with each other on much at all, far less agree with other clubs. It's all down to politics of course.
I much prefer loose associations such as we have on these forums. Politics can be expressed and ignored as need be, ideas can be exchanged and a huge amount of knowledge gained, friendships can be made that would never otherwise be possible within the geographical limitations of a local club, outings and get togethers can be arranged.
To me this is the modern day world equivalent of the angling club and we are all free to come and go as we please.
Yes, I think you are probably right.
It is not as far off topic as one might imagine though. Everybody seems to think that "realistic" or even "super realistic" flies should impress people because they look realistic to humans. Only very few of these things actually work well on fish.
If people wish to engage in this sort of thing, then fair enough, but it has more to do with model making than with fly-dressing. This is because "people" then decide what is good, and not fish.
You are absolutely right about competitions.
TL
MC
There are always good and bad points, just as there are always at least two sides to every discussion, sometimes many more.
Also, I will concede that my personal experiences of various competitions has been extremely negative, Although I hasten to add I have never actually taken part in one as a competitor, nor would I, and so that colours my views considerably. One also hears a lot of negative press, from various media, including various postings on other groups.
There are a number of things which I intensely dislike about competitions. One is the fact that there are always people who are motivated to cheat. The regimentation imposed, which often makes little sense, but is then often accepted by other anglers, and even hailed as "international standard", or some such equally ridiculous phrase. When these things are held on wild fish waters, the pressure on those waters is massive. I disagree with fishing for stocked fish in any case, on principle, and for a whole range of reasons.
While a temporary economy boost may seem like a good argument to some, it does not seem so to me. Maintaining and conserving good fishing for the continued enjoyment of many, and boosting the economy permanently as a result of that, seems like a much better idea to me.
Lastly, the negative press often associated with these things, colours public opinion too negatively against angling in general.
TL
MC
Certainly to each his own however I have personally witnessed some unbelievable childishness and aggravation in competition angling. Folk trying to stretch fish that are slightly undersize, people falling out, storming off in the huff, fish killed and then binned after the weigh in etc. That's not what fishing is about. Not to me anyway. If it was I would certainly give it up. I noticed a thread on the fly fishing forums the other day about spooning fish. One chap saying he sometimes pumps out the stomach contents of live fish – usually only at competitions. While I believe there may be certain short term gains in organising matches I also believe that in the long term the effects may not be positive for angling overall. That is certainly one reason why, unlike on some others forums, there is no competition section here. Not all competitions are bad of course, I was up at Loch Shin with Allan last year, fishing it as an outing and it all seemed friendly enough. For me the absolute negative is how it seems to drive fisheries to stock with rainbow trout to get onto the money making competition circuit, even if they already have a good stock of smaller wild fish. Carron being the most recent example of this, Lintrathen a few years ago.
I've seen some obnoxious behaviour at competitions and I've also attended club outings where the competition was friendly and it was all great fun.
I'm glad that Crombie Loch doesn't have enough boats to make it onto the competition circuit but I've nothing at all against competitions run by responsible clubs.
Some water to me just seem to attract competitive anglers- Rescobie springs to mind- and i find the atmosphere unpleasant at times.
Rescobie is the kind of place where people who have forgotten what real fishing is about go. They are not quite dubs like Insch and Kingennie etc, more a legacy of the 1970s pre-dub-epoch. There are loads of places like that. Butterstone, Fitty, Lintrathen and now Carron. A Scottish manifestation of the English reservoir scene I suppose. They are welcome to it.
Don't believe anyone has lambasted anyone Allan, just expressing opinions. You are right of course, if you don’t like it then don’t do it however that does not mean you automatically escape some of its less desirable effects. Rainbows in Carron and Lintrathen for example are without doubt to a greater degree attributable to competition fishing. Of course it’s not all doom and gloom competitions can be run responsibly and the social side may be the cement that holds some associations together – Orkney springs to mind and most certainly the Loch Shin annual bash can be held up as a tasteful event. Even there though I got my ear bent by a certain chap in the guest house who put his own lack of success down to his boat partner hogging all the best spots by pointing the boat in such a way to keep him out of the productive water. Human nature and very sad that after such great fishing and a lovely day that was what he focused on. I had to bite my tongue not tell him to get a fucking life! Introduce a competitive element and it can bring out less desirable traits in any of us, especially if there are prizes or status involved. I think that thread about the SANA competitions on the fly fishing forums a few weeks ago just about said it all. That kind of stuff does angling no favours.
Hmmm............ I was not slagging off people, I was slagging off a principle.
May be of interest to discover that competitions are illegal here, and also that the word "sport" has been removed from official documents, such as the angling test and the angling licence. I am not making any comment on that, either for or against, merely pointing it out.
You may thank the greens and various animal rights people for that. Apparently, calling angling a "sport" implies the misuse of fish for personal gratification, which would incidentally also be illegal here anyway. It is actually illegal to target fish at all, unless you specifically wish to eat them.
There are a few anglers outside Britain you know, actually far more than there are inside! :)
I have also passed a few exams, there are quite a few which are mandatory here if you wish to engage in some things. Indeed, if you wish to angle at all you have to pass various tests. If you wish to instruct, you also have to pass the relevant tests, and if you wish to hold certain posts in a club etc, then you must possess the relevant qualifications for that post.
All these posts are honorary. Nobody gets paid for instructing. These are organised by the two main angling bodies in conjunction with the state water authorities.
Anybody who wishes to fly-fish must prove a certain level of competence in order to pass the relevant test. This includes casting.
This is quite different from some places, where it seems everyone and his dog has some sort of qualification or other, no sensible standards are apparent, and the beginning angler is largely left to his own devices.
TL
MC
Both of you coz he would feel himself to be a winner too if he caught most fish.
I thoroughly enjoyed match fishing during my time in Birmingham. I thoroughly enjoyed
course fishing and learned an awful lot that has helped in my fly fishing phase.
As there was no wild trout fishing in the Midlands (well not available to me anyway), I
had to make do with Packington, Rutland etc. Believe me there were some seriously
good fly fishermen down there that had never had the experience of fishing up here.
I can honestly say that especially during the winter months I really miss the course fishing.
Competition fishing for trout doesn't excite me personally as mostly it is subsurface and
not too far removed from spinning. I have nothing against spinning, I love seeing the fly take etc.
Davie
If they wanted to make it a true competition surely an angler testing his skills against truly wild trout would be the true way to determine a winner. If rainbows are stocked fresh the last thing they have known is pellets so its straight on with something flashy and pretty much anyone with a reasonable knowledge of casting can catch them. A wild brown trout however needs a careful choice of flys, much stealth and better tactics. Not as many wild trout would be caught and the venue could be moved from loch to loch to take pressure off of the wild stocks. I know i would rather catch brownies anyway.
Cheers
Robbie
Quote from: Acefisher on February 06, 2007, 02:49:27 AM
Hi Mike,
"This is quite different from some places, where it seems everyone and his dog has some sort of qualification or other, no sensible standards are apparent, and the beginning angler is largely left to his own devices"
That may be the case in Germany or Holland , but not in France or Spain, I understand , nor in the U.K, either.
Paul.
PS: please respond if you know different.
Not sure what you are asking me here? I don?t know much about the various mores in many other places, only what I read, and other anglers tell me.
TL
MC
I live in Germany. You can?t fish at all here without passing a test. This ensures that every angler has certain basic knowledge before he even goes near the water. This has a number of advantages. Of course, like almost everything else, it has a number of disadvantages as well.
But one thing it does help with, is avoiding getting ripped off for tackle! If you know how to cast, what you need to do it, and roughly what you wish to achieve in this regard, then you can?t be fobbed off with "hype", and you are less likely to believe glossy magazines.
There are other aspects as well.
TL
MC
Sometimes qualifications do matter :
"two degrees in be-bop a PhD in swing, he's a master of rhythm he's a rock and roll king"
Lowell George RIP :D
Quote from: breac uaig on February 07, 2007, 09:56:05 PM
I consider myself to be a fly tier not a dresser,
Splitting Hares (ears) surely Breac,I too have been tying flies for more years than I would like to admit, but my point is that if you want to be taught/instructed/coached or whatever you have to have confidence in your teachers ability. This may be due to their reputation, recommendation or because they have a certificate to say they have passed a test. In these cases the only proof anyone has, especially if they are teaching outwith a club is to be able to produce their 'bit of paper'.
Try teaching kids or vulnerable adults without you bit of disclosure paper today and you may end up in the pokey. Most of the instructing I do is with kids, so I've got disclosures coming out of my ears. I don't charge them a fee (mostly its for pupils at my school) and I probably wouldn't be allowed to take them fishing if I wasn't qualified in some way. If I want to continue doing this in the future I have to have a recognised qualification - so I'm qualified. It's not an ego trip, it's not a money making scheme (theres not enougfh to go round anyway), I love my sport, and I feel if there were more kids involved in angling there would be fewer roaming the streets doing all the usual tabloid headline things.
Sure there is nothing at all wrong with qualifications. What does concern me though is "formalisation" of simple hobbies like fishing. We live in a more and more regulated world. Twin pronged bureaucratic attacks from Brussels and from our own Muppets on most things we do. How long before, for the sake of Europe wide "harmonisation", we are not allowed to go fishing at all without passing some "exam". Couldn't happen? Are you certain about that? It has already happened in Germany. Such moves are detrimental to angling, chip away at the numbers who play the game. The first steps towards a ban. We must always be on guard against bureaucrats who believe they know better than we do, be they in government or under the cloak of some "representative" or self appointed "governing body".