Sparse Dry Spiders

[Fishtales]

It doesn't matter what he has it listed under by definition a spider doesn't have wings. The original spider patterns as you say were soft hackle flies but they were fished wet, damp and dry as needed. The cock hackled dry fly without wings is more commonly known as a hackled dry fly rather than a spider but, as it is wingless, it is still a spider

[haresear]

Donald, there is a dry pattern known as the Greenwell Spider (basically the same as the dry winged Greenwell with a cock furnace hackle, but without the wing). The photo in your link is the wet Greenwell. There is also a wet Greenwell spider.

http://www.theessentialfly.com/trout-flies/greenwell-dry.html

I'm not sure if I've helped or confused the issue further :?

Alex

[Black-Don]

It doesn't matter what he has it listed under by definition a spider doesn't have wings. The original spider patterns as you say were soft hackle flies but they were fished wet, damp and dry as needed. The cock hackled dry fly without wings is more commonly known as a hackled dry fly rather than a spider but, as it is wingless, it is still a spider

Without being pedantic, how can you fish a Soft hackled Spider " dry " ?

Donald, there is a dry pattern known as the Greenwell Spider (basically the same as the dry winged Greenwell with a cock furnace hackle, but without the wing). The photo in your link is the wet Greenwell. There is also a wet Greenwell spider.

http://www.theessentialfly.com/trout-flies/greenwell-dry.html

I'm not sure if I've helped or confused the issue further :?



Alex

Alex, I may have confused things here by calling the Dry Greenwells a Greenwells Glory but I was always of the opinion that the upwing version was the Greenwells Glory and the wet version was just a Wet Greenwells. Regardless of this, North Country Flies definately means the winged version when  listing it on the site as a North Country spider http://www.northcountryflies.com/north-country-flies/page/2/

Again, I don't want to be pedantic but I was always of the opinion that there was a Greenwells Spider, a Wet Winged Greenwells, A dry Greenwells which is tied without wings and an Upwinged dry Greenwells in different styles such as North Country, Clyde and Tummel. I dare say there is even a Dry Greenwells tied spent. I'd conceed that the Greenwells Glory as was originally intended is the wet winged version not the upwinged dry version.

I'm not disputing the fact you could refer to a Dry Greenwells as a Dry Greenwells Spider but this was never how things were intended and it might be  a wingless Dry Greenwells but until recently I have never heard of any fly being referred to as a Dry Spider and the fact that Phil at Spidersplus hasn't even got round to producing a picture of a Dry Black Spider indicates to me that this is more of a fashion thing than how things were ever intended.

Folk are maybe now calling them Dry Spiders but I reckon if you were to use this term in conversation with a traditional dry fly fisherman you would start to see smoke coming out of his ears and it must therefore be a fairly modern trend in fly fishing terminology as a result.  :wink:  

[Fishtales]

Without being pedantic, how can you fish a Soft hackled Spider " dry " ?

When you take any fly out of the box and cast it without wetting it first it will usually float. The old anglers knew this and would fish the spider dry to a rising fish. They didn't float for long but they would sometimes rub some paraffin into the hackle to make them float longer. I suppose it would be more a damp fly than a recognised dry fly.

[haresear]

I'm not so sure that the "dry spider" is all that recent. In John Reid's "Clyde Style Flies (1971) he lists as "hackle dry flies" the march brown spider, black spider, red spider and greenwell spider.

Mind you, further back,  Courtney William's "A Dictionary of Trout Flies" (1949) defines a spider as "a hackled wet fly..." He doesn't list any dry as a spider, but as a refers to "hackled dry flies".

I've got to say I'm a bit of a philistine when it comes to flies as I don't really care what the things are called or which materials are used. I just tie something that looks to me a bit like the natural insect and fish with it

Alex

[Rabmax]

When i was a school boy an old boy my father knew showed me how to tie Dry spiders.They were exactly like Col described.He would insist you only used  1/12 to 2 at most turns of hackle & it had to be pearsalls silk too.He only used a handful of patterns -Black Spider,Red & Yellow Spider,Greenwells Spider.Badger & Yellow Spider,Grizzly & Yellow Spider,& Grizzly in Medium & Dark Olive.He also tied a slightly bushier fly with a yellow body & Grizzle & redish Brown hackle mixed.I also use one with an Orange body & Grizzly hackle deadly in the summer months.They hang straight down like a klink but they out fish a klink for me anyway. Probably because they are tied very sparse & my kinks often land on there side.   There down fall is they are hard to see on the water.I have been tying up some fairly sparse paraloops on curved hooks the last few days.So it might be spider vs paraloop this season or old versus newer just might be able to see the paraloops easier.I knew quite a few of these old timers & they all referred to them as Dry Spiders they never had Google in those days to tell them what they should be called.  :lol:Cheers

[Traditionalist]

It makes no real difference what you call a fly, or how some people insist on "defining" it, it is how you use it that makes it what it is.

TL
MC

[east wind]

Going back to the original post, i followed some traditional dry spider patterns to 16's even 18's and found trout refused them pretty consistently (might be my tying) Changing to flies, usually emergers, with a simple post type wing does it for me when they get choosy.

That said, I've banged on about how effective dry spider patterns are on here on a number of occasions when the big early season flies are out. I tied some dry march brown spiders for a fly swap a number of years ago. If anybody still has one in a box marked "spares" dig it out and try it this spring.

It comes with a money back guarantee  :

Mac

[Rabmax]

Going back to the original post, i followed some traditional dry spider patterns to 16's even 18's and found trout refused them pretty consistently (might be my tying) Changing to flies, usually emergers, with a simple post type wing does it for me when they get choosy.

That said, I've banged on about how effective dry spider patterns are on here on a number of occasions when the big early season flies are out. I tied some dry march brown spiders for a fly swap a number of years ago. If anybody still has one in a box marked "spares" dig it out and try it this spring.

It comes with a money back guarantee  :

Mac

Are you tying them with a short thin body sparse with 1 1/2 turns of hackle.I find when tied like this they fish as an emerger.Cheers

[east wind]

Are you tying them with a short thin body sparse with 1 1/2 turns of hackle.I find when tied like this they fish as an emerger.Cheers

Certainly a slim body which goes back to about the start of the barb. I use two different hackles on the flies, about two turns of both on each fly.

http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=15590.0

Mac