Do we really need wings.

[Fishtales]

However, if you fished upstream you would catch more and better fish.

As I have said I do fish upstream, and across, dead drift, retrieved, high stick, short line, long line, on long slow flats, riffles, pocket water, above water falls and below them and have seen no difference in the fish that I catch from the same stretch of river as I fished down and across catching on the winged wet, the dry and the nymph in all situations.

I don't analyse what I do to any great extent, I just go and do what it needs at the time and whatever the conditions. I can't even explain why it works, it just does.

The wing on the dun seems to be important because when it goes it stops catching and only starts again when I replace it with one with a wing.

[Fishtales]

However, if somebody asks, as in this case, I will try to explain why I think a method or fly is not optimal.  That is all I have tried to do here.

As I have done to give a balanced view as to why I think the wing does have a place on wet flies.

[Traditionalist]

As I have said I do fish upstream, and across, dead drift, retrieved, high stick, short line, long line, on long slow flats, riffles, pocket water, above water falls and below them and have seen no difference in the fish that I catch from the same stretch of river as I fished down and across catching on the winged wet, the dry and the nymph in all situations.

I don't analyse what I do to any great extent, I just go and do what it needs at the time and whatever the conditions. I can't even explain why it works, it just does.

The wing on the dun seems to be important because when it goes it stops catching and only starts again when I replace it with one with a wing.

I analyse more or less everything as closely as I can. I always want to know why things work, and if possible improve them.

Also, most confirmed downstream wet fly anglers never do anything else, even when it is not working they keep on flogging away, and then often moan about the poor day they had! 

[Fishtales]

I analyse more or less everything as closely as I can. I always want to know why things work, and if possible improve them.

I don't have time for deep analysis, I'm to busy fishing. I tend to fish on a wing (no pun intended) and prayer and just go on instinct.

Also, most confirmed downstream wet fly anglers never do anything else, even when it is not working they keep on flogging away, and then often moan about the poor day they had! 

I generally blame the fish for that

( I meant to say you have mail, not about this though)

[otter]

Also, most confirmed downstream wet fly anglers never do anything else, even when it is not working they keep on flogging away, and then often moan about the poor day they had! 

Generalisations are problematic Mike, even if true 

[Traditionalist]

Generalisations are problematic Mike, even if true 

Indeed!  

[Malcolm]

So having read through the last couple of pages it seems to me that there is a skill set associated with down and across which, when mastered, allows the capture of identically sized fish to the uptream and across and up techniques. Seems fair enough to me. 

[Fishtales]

So having read through the last couple of pages it seems to me that there is a skill set associated with down and across which, when mastered, allows the capture of identically sized fish to the uptream and across and up techniques. Seems fair enough to me.

The way I do it works for me Malcolm. Whether I do it the same way as others I have no idea. Do I fish downstream as if I am fishing upstream and allow a dead drift and that is what catches? Again I don't know. I do it without thinking too much about what I am doing except to keep the flies fishing just that little bit faster or slower than the current.

[Traditionalist]

So having read through the last couple of pages it seems to me that there is a skill set associated with down and across which, when mastered, allows the capture of identically sized fish to the uptream and across and up techniques. Seems fair enough to me.

There are very definitely skill sets involved, but they are different.  It is a very great deal harder to fish downstream successfully than it is to fish upstream successfully, although many people find acquiring the upstream skill set too onerous or too much trouble or whatever.

The "usual" technique of swinging wets downstream is a simple and easy method but not usually very successful.  There are ways to improve downstream fishing somewhat, but they are very difficult indeed, for a number of reasons, and still not usually as successful as upstream methods. Various upstream methods take longer to learn well than just "swinging wets" does, but are generally more effective. A good upstream angler will invariably outfish even a good downstream angler and usually by a fair margin. Of course this is also dependent on the skill of the anglers involved. Just fishing upstream wont automatically  get you any more fish than fishing downstream will, you need the skill to do it properly.

If all you want to do is catch a lot of fish then the easiest and most effective method is deep nymphing upstream and using an indicator.  One can learn this pretty quickly and it is very effective indeed.

[Traditionalist]

"Why should it make any difference?"

The main problems are matters of stealth and presentation.  You will always catch more fish if they don't see you, ( or become aware of you through footfalls etc), and your presentation is stealthy.  This is very difficult indeed to do when fishing downstream.  Just about the only way to do it consistently well is to fish a long line "fine and far off". This is very difficult, even if you have cover on the bank, fishing a long line from cover is difficult in itself, you may not be able to get a long back cast in at all.  If you are standing in the river it is easier to cast but more or less impossible to approach fish without them being alarmed. In the majority of cases they will be long gone before you even cast.  Fishing downstream disturbs water you want to fish.  The longer the line you use the less control you have and if you use a short line you are almost always in sight of the fish. Fish that have seen an angler or a rod waving  or a line splashing down are very wary indeed, even if they are still there.  When there is some colour on the water then fishing downstream works a lot better because it helps to hide you from the fish. In low clear water you are often in plain sight of the fish and consequently catch fewer of them.

Fishing upstream and using the available cover you can fish a short line stealthily and with good control. You are not disturbing water you want to fish and the fish don't see you before you cast.

Various problems with fly presentation are easier to solve when fishing upstream. Although it is admittedly more strenuous, you have to cast more often, and creeping and crawling about is more exhausting than just strolling down the river bank, and initially seems more difficult, it has the "built in" advantages that downstream fishing does not.

As anybody who fishes dry flies will tell you, fishing upstream is a great deal easier than fishing downstream, and basically for the same reasons noted above.  You CAN fish dry flies downstream, it is just far more difficult to do it successfully. Dragging dry flies will occasionally catch fish but more often wont.  The same applies to wet flies, but you can't see the effects of drag on wet flies or the effects it may be having on fish.

There are often occasions where the terrain only gives you limited possibilities to fish a particular area, you may be forced to fish down because it isn't possible to fish up. You just have to make the best of it, or skip such stretches.