Which is the best fly?

[Traditionalist]

Yes, quite a few don't seem to think it's necessary to know much about fly life, much less how it behaves.  They often have massive boxes of all sorts of stuff and no clue at all what to use.This is so common that it's a joke with some here. I never found it particularly funny myself!

An angler went a fishing, with hopes exceeding high,
reaching the stream, he grabbed his gear, and tried to choose a fly.
First he looked at pheasant tails, in every shade and hue,
but then his eye caught woolly worms, of which he had a few,
From dry flies back to wet flies, and sorting through his nymphs,
he chopped and changed and hesitated, at every single glimpse.
The fish were rising madly, taking everything that flew,
but still the angler sought in vain, he did not have a clue.

"Well met my brother piscator", another angler hailed,
"How are you faring? Well I hope". "No, up to now I´ve failed.
My casting it is perfect, I have trained for many a year,
and the stream I know it well of course, I often fish it here,
the ways of fish and insects, are also quite well known,
and I have a copy of every one, that here has ever flown,
all this avails me nought I fear, of little use my constant muse,
out of all my large filled boxes, a fly I can not choose".


"That really is a problem, should I then have a look?,
out of all the lovely flies you have, one must bring you luck".
"I know, I know", the angler wailed, his anguish giving voice,
"but now I have so many flies, that I am spoilt for choice.
How have you done then, my friend, how many have you caught?
or has your day been lost as well, in long and useless thought?".
"Oh my creel is full", the angler said, "with good fish as you see,
I have no problems choosing flies, I only possess three".


"I started with a black one, and then used green and brown,
I don´t know what they imitate, but the fish just gulped them down".
"What patterns then?" Our angler cried, frustrated, full of anguish,
"Tell me the names of these great flies, let me not in ignorance languish,
I am fairly certain if I knew, that lovely fish then, I would also catch,
please tell me what the patterns are, so I may match the hatch".
"I would really like to help you, but to my everlasting shame,
I don´t know what the things are called, they may even have no name".


"I always use the same ones, and with considerable success,
but I know not what these things are called, what they imitate? much less.
You may try one if you like though, you can even use my gear,
see, a lovely fish is rising, under the weeping willow here".
"I thank you brother angler, I would most gratefully essay a cast,
I would so like to catch a fish, before the opportunity is past"
No sooner said, than done, the gear was handed out,
and angler then essayed his cast, to the large and wary trout.


A perfect rise! A perfect strike! and battle then commenced,
and anglers blood went rushing, as the old rod strongly tensed,
the line sang loudly in the wind, as did the old and creaking reel,
as angler plied them with the greatest skill, the mighty fish to creel.
Long minutes passed, though time stood still, the fish made one last run,
with the greatest care the net was readied, as the fish was not yet done.
Shaking with excitement, but still with perfect nerves, and icy calm,
the fish was landed then at last, and lay there cradled in the anglers palm.


"My friend I thank you heartily, capturing such a prize has made my day,
Do me the honour of your company a while, as we wander on our way.
Your gear is old but solid, and your flies are perfect works of art,
tell me something of yourself, or better yet come sup with me, before we part".
"Right gladly will I do so Sir, congratulations on your lovely fish,
I am glad that I could help a little, in helping you to gain your fervent wish".
The sun sinks ever lower in the summer sky, and at last the day then ends,
its final rays, illuminating strangers of the morning, now forever friends.

[Traditionalist]

do you really believe in talent Mike? the thing i do most is teach drawing, many say you need talent to do this, which is a bit odd since i make a living teaching people that often say that
i think of talent as a confidence to learn, totally external, created as much by others and the persons environment as it is by themselves, talented kids come from talented parents that encouraged inquisitive engagement sort of thing.

Yes, but what makes you ask?

I think talent is absolutely essential for a whole host of things if you really want to excel at them. You can learn a lot of things, but no matter what you do you will never be as good as somebody who has the talent AND puts in the work. Some very talented people don't even need to put in much work in order to excel. What is talent?  A particular affinity and aptitude for something. Nobody has ever really explained how or why it occurs.  It may be partially hereditary and partially environmental. I really don't know, but I know it exists.

[Traditionalist]

not sure you got my point, i teach what most people consider 'talent', the word is a real stumbling block for me, should those that believe it even try?
could you draw like picasso? sure, takes about 1 year, 2 years for Dega

You may well teach people how to do something well but you can't teach talent, it is an innate natural ability.

You couldn't teach me to draw in ten years, I have absolutely no talent at all for it, quite the reverse. My brother was a very talented artist, but he was quite unable to explain how he did things. He could draw easily recognisable faces and make first class sketches of animals etc when he was six years old, before he had any training at all.  I am quite good at technical drawing  ( Drafting), but absolutely useless at freehand sketching, although I can draw some flies pretty well!  

Those with innate natural abilities will always be better than those without. Does that mean one should not even bother trying?  No, I don't think so, but it can be very frustrating indeed trying to do something for which you have no talent,

[Traditionalist]

each year on the first day i tell students this is precisely not the case, its my very first principle, has to be, if there was only innate natural ability there would be little faith in learning.

I did not say there was ONLY innate natural ability. Some people learn to do things very well indeed. It is just that those with innate natural ability learn a lot faster and become better, often with far less effort.  Much the same for geniuses, you can't learn to become a genius, either you are or you aren't.

It's the same for a lot of things, some people  are "natural" casters, or can shoot extremely well as a result of innate natural ability. You can teach people to cast but you can't give them talent, the vast majority will never be more than average however much they learn or how much time they spend on it. Same for shooters and many athletes. It is indeed the same for a whole host of things.

[sinbad]

Been a long winter , time we went fishing ! Will be happy to  fish with any of the posters on this thread as i think your all good fishers. Competition should be fun lads.... Ian

[sinbad]

Competition was the wrong word make it just fishing

[Traditionalist]

forgive me for going on but i am fascinated, one of the big debates in education is the old nurture versus nature thing, very similar to 'where does talent come from'
the latest on this is that 'smart' people became this way in very early child hood through interaction with their environment(being allowed and encouraged to basically), i'm not aware of any evidence for genetic advantage whatsoever, which is odd because our culture supports it fiercely, it pans out as 'i can't' in school which is an obvious extension of the belief that some can't and some just can,

i dont care much if genetic talent exists or not, its the belief in it that i feel is very harmful for young people.

Well, I don't know where talent comes from and I don't think anybody else does either, I have read quite a bit about it and it is all very inconclusive. There can be no doubt that it exists.

It is a fact that some can and some can't in regard to all sorts of things. The problems arise because this society insists that everybody should be "equal"  and that children should be forced into certain moulds. Even though this is patently nonsense it is still propagated.  The ills of society are a result of that society.  You can blame the government for a lot of things but they are also only a part of society. The dishonesty and criminality is a result of failing values in society and that is undoubtedly due in large part to the failure of education. It doesn't work well but still people cling to it.  Whole generations have been brought up to learn that exploiting others is good, various criminal behaviour is acceptable or at least unavoidable, and that dishonesty is the norm.

Just how it is, nothing much I can do about it. I can only control my own behaviour and perhaps exert a little influence on a few people. I might just as well try to piss up a rope.

Money is the only thing that talks nowadays. It doesn't matter how you acquire it or how many people or amount of the environment you destroy in the process, if you make money you can do more or less anything you like and will even be honoured for it. Film stars and footballers are literally  worshipped while those doing sensible everyday jobs are held more or less in contempt. Druggies, wasters and arseholes cost people untold amounts of money that they have earned by dint of hard work, and even more money is then poured in to "solve the problems". It doesn't of course. You want to know how to solve a lot of problems?  Stop the money.

[sinbad]

Whats the best fly

[sinbad]

Got the vice out , ready to tie a few lads

[Traditionalist]

Whats the best fly

Very generally speaking, a hare's ear. If that doesn't work, then a black woolly bugger. One or the other of them will always work eventually, and often very effectively indeed.