Wyatt's flies

[Wildfisher]

Yes, I have just been sitting here tying flies onto nylon  and really watching the  angle  it comes off (how sad is that? :lol: ).This is something that probably   makes a bigger difference than the nylon itself.

Attention to detail I suppose.

[Bob Wyatt]

Yup, life is in the details, Fred.

[Bob Wyatt]

Ardbeg,

The turle is OK but really a knot for gut. The simple 'uni' is faster and in my opinion better for knot strength and being in line with the hook shank.  

Allan, the half-blood or clinch is probably the most widely used of all knots, but co-poly will pig-tail if not tucked. Not as neat as the 'uni'.

[Wildfisher]

What's the smallest practical hook  size to tie these flies (DHE +DHS) on?

[Bob Wyatt]

Fred,

I tie te DHE down to 16 on a Kamasan B100. I use snowshoe foot hair for it about as much as deer hair.  The deerhair makes for a skinnier tie, which can make a difference sometimes.

The Dirty Duster can go down as small as you can make it, but I never go smaller than a 16 with it.

The DH Sedge is good in a 16 as well, on regular dry fly hooks, and is much easier to tie than either of the above in small sizes.  I use this size quite a bit in Canada and NZ.

Rather than tie chunky little flies in size 18 or 20, I just use skinny ones in 16.

[Wildfisher]

This all sets me thinking. As a youngster on our local club water (Lunan) I used to do OK when olives and stuff were on the go in spring, but in low water on summer's evenings never did have much luck until I stated using small flies (20's and 22's). All they were was a few turns of dirty white thread and a badger hackle. No tail. I'll  bet these were fishing ? sunk. They were so small I was just guessing where they were ? the time. Never did consider that, all I knew was I was catching fish. That's the beauty of forums, can make you stop and think about what others are saying and relate it to your own experiences

[Bob Wyatt]

Swithun,

What you say is generally true.  The angle the fly takes is not critical, just how deep the body penetrates the surface.  This isn't because the trout will only take a fly with that posture, but more to do with how deep the fish is holding and how far off it sees the fly coming in it's perceptual window.  

I think that body profile is the main trigger to a response. The sunk abdomen is seen from a considerable distance, whereas a high riding dry, sitting up on its hackles and tail, is usually just a surface disturbance (footprint). I just don't believe in the idea that trout  'select' high riding duns over struggling and stuck emerging duns, so there is no good reason to tie them, in my view.  

Even more important, the trout notices the sunk body from further away and focuses on it.  They are so single minded that once they see such a target they stay locked on to it, if they are in feeding mode.  If you don't make the fly behave in a way that puts the trout off, it will get eaten.  I believe it's the reason that they take our flies when there appears to be perfectly good real ones out there at the same time.  They get noticed, because they stand out just a bit more while still remaining 'in context'.

Uncleboo,
My best caenis hatch fly is a skinny hare's ear spider, or hare body DH Sedge in #14, or even a 12.  The thing is for the trout to see the damn thing among all those flies on the water.  Again, it's an emerger that the trout are eating, not the little duns that cover you while you're fishing.  

[Bob Wyatt]

Well, I do occasionally think of other things , but because I use them for pretty well most of my fishing and I keep being asked questions about them, they do tend to show up in my articles.  They'll show up again in the next couple too, since the season for them is almost upon us. When it gets boring let me know.

The important thing is that the specifics of fly pattern just aren't really that important. The bugs that trout eat look pretty much the same, and the natural emergers are a bloody mess. The fine details of tying don't matter much, to me at any rate - except that the flies have a good stimulating shape and they stay together.  There are lots of good flies out there.  The ones I use are just simpler to tie than most, and I try to make them rugged.  

The small differences you are talking about are just that, the main thing is to get the body down in the surface and let the trout see it.    A flared wing on the Sedge for fast water is good, but a high riding fly is only important to the angler, so he can see it.  If it worked in Norway I'm not surprised, but I don't think it would have worked any better than a low rider.  And I'd put my money on the sunk body every time.

[Bob Wyatt]

Allan and I were discussing the original dressing for the Veyatie Black (on Allan's fleebox thread), and I thought I'd post it here in case anyone is interested.

Veyatie Black
Tail:  whole golden Pheasant crest (quite long)
Body: Black seal's fur, with a pinch of claret if desired (the early version used ostrich herl)
Body Hackle: Badger saddle
Rib: silver wire. Trap the body hackle with the rib - bumble style.
Shoulder Hackle:  Hen pheasant wing covert feather, folded and wound by the tip. (strip the aftershaft fluff and use the stalk as a handle)



Hans Weilenmann photo
http://www.danica.com/flytier/

The Veyatie Silver just has a tinsel body and a golden GP crest tail.  The red tailed (sea-trout) version we call the Smithy.

Smithy
Tail: whole dyed red GP crest
Body: Flat silver tinsel
Body Hackle: Badger
Rib: silver wire
Shoulder hackle: Hen pheasant wing covert, doubled and wound by tip.


Hans Weilenmann photo
http://www.danica.com/flytier/

[Bob Wyatt]

That's it Boo, the Black on an overcast day, and the silver in bright conditions.  In the old days I'd use both on the cast and it was interesting observing how the fish reacted.  One day, about fifteen years ago on Fionn, I was in the middle of a great mayfly hatch.  The day was warm and overcast and the fly were emerging all over the place.  I was nailing them on every cast on the VB, then the sky cleared in the afternoon, and by tea time was clear, bright and warm.  The fish started taking the silver on the point, and not exactly ignoring the black but takes were two to one to the silver.  Caught over seventy trout that day, not counting the sprats.  Wild.

A couple years later on a very bright day with a good breeze, nothing rising but the fish were nailing the silver point fly again, and for some reason a highlander green seal's fur DH Sedge on the bob.  I didn't start catching fish until I changed to the green sedge and the Veyatie Silver.  Later that day, in the early evening, the sun was low and went really brassy, and the NW wind started to howl so hard I had to slam the flies onto the water, the fish were absolutely murdering the dark claret DHS. The flies were skating in the wind and being blown clean off. Fishing the lee shore, almost impossible to keep the line on the water. Good pound fish too, a lot of them.  I reckon it was the high contrast fly gave them something to see in all that commotion.

So, I don't rule out the effects of colour, but hate wasting time changing flies, so these days mostly stick with a hare's ear DHS on a bright day, dark claret in low light.