Traditional Tying

[Fishtales]

'Traditional Tying' What is it you ask? Take a hook between your thumb and index finger, take thread and materials and tie your fly. That was how 'traditional' flies were busked. Then came the vice to hold the fly. The 'traditional' tyers thought this was all wrong and shouldn't be used, now most of us use them. It was something that made the tying of flies easier.

Now to tying 'traditional' flies. What are they? I think they would be better called Classic flies as in classic salmon flies. Then we would have classic dry flies, wet flies, nymphs and lures. Lures you cry. They are modern abominations. Are they though? Some of the classic wet flies for lochs were based on salmon flies and in the nineteenth century wet flies for lochs were tyed on size 6, 8 and 10's, big flies by modern standards.

Lets look at a classic fly the Black Spider

Black fibres for tail, black thread and black hackle, either cock or hen. Pretty simple to tie.

Lets add a silver rib. Now we have a Williams Favourite another classic fly.

Lets change the tail to red and put on a grey wing. Now we have a Blae and Black another classic fly.

Lets make the body all silver, we don't have any grey wing feather. Lets use Mallard Blue instead. We now have a Butcher. A Classic fly?

And so it goes on. Each generation has it's own 'classic' flies made from the tyings of previous ones. Some tyers branch out and tie something completely different and, if successful, they become classic flies.

Now, what happens if we stop tying the classic flies to the original tying, or as close as we can with modern materials? We lose them. Unless we have books to give us the tyings we will no longer be able to see the history of our modern flies. If nobody ties to the classic design new tyers will not know what the classic fly should look like. We shouldn't lose these flies they are the heritage of our flyfishing.

Derek saw the fly competition as a threat to the way he ties, it wasn't. If I enter a competition and it states the way the organisers want me to participate I would have to follow those rules. If it is a painting competition and they state water colour I wouldn't enter an oil painting if that was all I painted in, I would have to compromise or not enter. We all have a set of rules we follow in life, some are seen as wrong by others, we still carry on through life though and we all get there in the end.

Traditional, Classic, they are just words to describe the way it used to be. It is all just heritage and history in the end.

[Fishtales]

Have a look here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-xwwfgCu-U

[garryh]

all the women who tied flies for the famous Rogans of Donnegal used only their fingers even after vices became common.the reason being it was traditional.

   cheers Garry

[Fishtales]

That is the firm I was thinking about and couldn't find them on line This guy ties fully dressed salmon flies without a vice.


http://www.classicflies.net/


Found this about Rogan of Donnegal. There are Rogans on my mothers side, wonder if they are realations

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/worldwide/europe/part7.html

[Fishtales]

I seldom change a pattern of any fly, old or modern. Once it is changed it isn't the same fly, it is a different fly, as I outlined in the black spider to butcher tyings.

[Wildfisher]

Whether it's out of necessity or personal preference we all do it.

We as humans apply that to everything we do, not just fly tying. If we didn't we would still be fishing with  a willow branch and horsehair lines

[Fishtales]

Exactly Sandy.
It therefore follows that you occasionally do.
Whether it's out of necessity or personal preference we all do it.

wee bri............

But it is no longer the original fly and I don't call it by it's original name. Put a rib on a Black Spider and it becomes a Williams Favourite; change the tail to golden pheasant tippets and it is a Black Pennel. These were all changes made by someone at sometime but they didn't call them by their traditional name, they changed it so that they separated their tying from the original.

[Wildfisher]

lets call it at that before it gets out of hand

Can?t agree with that Derek. This is an interesting and friendly discussion ? can?t see any  reason why it should  get out of hand. I for one am very interested in how others do things and the reasons why. There are no rights or wrongs, just differences.

[Fishtales]

I didn't look the tying up when I wrote that, I was going from memory. It also has a topping over the tail. It is still just a variation of the Black Spider and because it was different it was called a different name. It wasn't called a Black Spider with silver rib and topping and tippet tail variant. Because it was successful as a loch fly it became a traditional fly in it's own right.

The point about maintaining original dressings and calling them by their traditional names is so that new patterns get the recognition if they deserve it. If someone asks a hundred years from now, how do I tie a Gold Ribbed Hares Ear, he will have the correct tying instead of a few hundred tyings that will bear little resemblance to the original.

[Wildfisher]

That?s? interesting I may have been tying traditional Black Pennels for years without even knowing it and least in part. Sometimes my ribbing technique is not up to scratch and the first few wraps start before the body proper creating an involuntary silver butt....