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Casting

Started by Brian Mcg, March 17, 2011, 09:44:35 AM

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haresear

QuoteThere are also times when the conditions are right but the fishing is slow when I will go into casting practice for a while but I soon get fed up with that and go back to fishing

I do that (practicing while fishing) too, but probably in a different way. On the river for example, I will make a point of getting my fly as far underneath trees as I can (sidecasting) to an imaginary fish. I will try different ways of getting a longer drift in a likely spot.
While blind fishing a river upstream you are constantly trying to get a better drift, so I suppose when fishing blind you are constantly practicing to get perfect presentation.

Slack line casts and line control in a current are skills the stillwater angler doesn't really need, so there are elements of casting that are pretty much irrelevant to anglers who only ever fish lochs and if you only ever fish lochs from a drifting boat in traditional loch style, then you can get by without needing to be able to cast very far at all. Different sets of skills for different situations is what it boils down to.

Alex
Protect the edge.

Malcolm

Being able to cast a long distance has a lot of benefits. It is trite but true to say that you lose nothing by having the ability to cast a long way. You can gain a lot. There are times even in Scottish waters where it is of great benefit:


  • that magic zone at the edge of the ripple can be a variable distance away. There are times when you won't catch a thing close in but get int into the start of the ripple and you can have great sport. You don't even need to worry about having your presentation just right as the important thing is to get your flies into the taking zone. If the fish ain't there you ain't gonna catch 'em!
  • On a big seatrout and salmon river the ability to cast a long distance will take you over lies that would be otherwise unreachable.
  • Boat fishing with a sinking line. If there is a big wind blowing - even with a drogue your flies may not get down to the taking zone unless you have the ability to cast a long line

It is pointless to come back with the argument that having the ability to cast a long way as that will tempt you to cast a long way all the time. Or that it is impossible to get perfect presentation at 90 ft.  Those arguments are so specious as not to be worthy of consideration by thinking anglers! Suffice it to say that perfect presentation can sometimes mean getting your flies in the taking zone.The ability to cast a long way does not stop you having the ability to lay down a size 16 emerger at 40ft or stop you casting 3 feet from the edge of a loch.The fact remains that an ability to cast long will often put a fish on the bank where otherwise it would have been untroubled by my mayfly emerger!

I did say earlier on that I was learning real distance casting techniques and I also said that these were almost useless for my fishing. The reason for this apparent anomoly is that these extreme techniques mean carrying such a long head (85ft) and call for such a vigorous casting action that there is very little opportunity to use them in real fishing; the fly would end up embedded in bushes or I would be over the side of the boat. 

However, "normal" long casting is a great benefit. 

Malcolm





There's nocht sae sober as a man blin drunk.
I maun hae goat an unco bellyfu'
To jaw like this

Part-time

I'm not the best of casters being self taught and mainly fishing on lochs. On lochs I guess I fall into the camp of casting as well as i need to to enjoy my fishing; the days where my lack of casting ability make a difference are very few or I just don't even notice. The thing that improved my fishing the most on lochs was stopping trying to cast as far as I could and concentrate on fishing better at a short to medium distance.

I agree that improving my casting could only be a good thing but at the moment my lack of casting ability does not affect my fishing enjoyment so its not an issue on lochs. It is an issue however on moving water which I started fishing on more often in the last few years; lack of casting skill (and most other moving water skills :)) does affect my enjoyment on rivers/burns so for the first time I have started thinking about casting lessons - might have to persuade SWMBO that a weekend in Glasgow is a good idea :)

Malcolm

Quote from: guest on March 18, 2011, 09:55:31 PM


Puzzled with this one? - I'm not the world's greatest caster - but if I'm boat fishing in a big wind I simply wheech the line up in the air on the forward cast and hey presto your almost at the backing - no great skill that IMHO :?

Like many fishermen your better than you know at fishing your local conditions! A big wind means a very hard backcast and, if you aren't used to it, means line around your neck. I do the same except I roll cast and fling the line up in the air for the wind to carry it.

Incidentally I happen to think that the way fly casting in Scotland is taught is very often wrong. The default way of teaching casting seems to me to be biased towards single lightweight fly and narrow loops with a light rod.

This is almost useless for a lot of Scottish fishers.

The standard way for a loch fisher is casting a team of fllies. The good self taught fisherman will therefore cast big open loops and will fish all day with few if any fankles. Fishing with very narrow loops is a disaster if fishing this most common of styles IMHO. It seems to me that if someone is wanting to improve then it should be with the tackle they use and if that tackle is a 10ft 7/8 weight and a four fly cast then that is what should be targeted. Similarly if someone is fishing for seatrout with weighted flies on an 8/9 rod then that should be what they learn. Please don't get me wrong - single fly and light rod is sometimes valid. More often it isn't.
There's nocht sae sober as a man blin drunk.
I maun hae goat an unco bellyfu'
To jaw like this

Wildfisher

Not sure that says much other than you caught 2 fish on the day Mark. One day in NZ this year I caught  4 fish and Alex blanked.  Alex is still a far better angler than  I am and that in a large part has to do with his far superior casting skills, not only, but it does play a large part. All other things being equal the man who covers the fish most  effectively will catch it.

Fishtales

Is there such a thing as an instinctive angler? Someone who fishes lochs and rivers and varies his casting and methods to suit without thinking about what he does or at least not consciously. Fishing down a loch rising/catching fish and then moving onto a river still rising/catching with the same setup only the technique changing to suit the flowing water. Or does it come with experience or age maybe? Would casting lessons improve or just confuse this type of angler?
Don't worry, be happy.
Sandy
Carried it in full, then carry it out empty.
http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/

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Malcolm

Quote from: fishtales on March 19, 2011, 10:35:14 PM
Is there such a thing as an instinctive angler? Someone who fishes lochs and rivers and varies his casting and methods to suit without thinking about what he does or at least not consciously. Fishing down a loch rising/catching fish and then moving onto a river still rising/catching with the same setup only the technique changing to suit the flowing water. Or does it come with experience or age maybe? Would casting lessons improve or just confuse this type of angler?

I think that is most of the people on this forum Sandy. Have you ever thought when confronted by a tricky riser : "Lord I don't have that 10ft Hanak 2 weight to get that ultra delicate parachute cast that Alex showed me"?

Of course not!

We may think of changing to a longer lighter leader or swapping flies but never with casting or rods or lines or reels. These are things that are peripheral to the problem. Something for the close season.

When you are on the river or loch they never enter the equation. The only thing on your mind is what is on the end of your line. You just know how to present it.
There's nocht sae sober as a man blin drunk.
I maun hae goat an unco bellyfu'
To jaw like this

Fishtales

Would the casting lesson confuse or help though? Would it take the edge off his ability to asses the problem at hand and carry on or would he stop, stand back and dissect it to figure out the cast he is about to make? Would the spontaneity of the moment pass because he is thinking about the cast rather than just getting the fly to the fish as best he can? I'm not talking about a learner who has to be taught how to cast but the experienced angler who casts as well as he needs to for each situation he finds himself in when on the water whether it be river or loch.
Don't worry, be happy.
Sandy
Carried it in full, then carry it out empty.
http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/

Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

haresear

Quote from: fishtales on March 19, 2011, 11:44:25 PM
Would the casting lesson confuse or help though? Would it take the edge off his ability to asses the problem at hand and carry on or would he stop, stand back and dissect it to figure out the cast he is about to make? Would the spontaneity of the moment pass because he is thinking about the cast rather than just getting the fly to the fish as best he can? I'm not talking about a learner who has to be taught how to cast but the experienced angler who casts as well as he needs to for each situation he finds himself in when on the water whether it be river or loch.

You can learn new things and use them when called upon. You can't learn too much and I don't believe that by knowing more about the theory of casting your fishing will suffer.

Alex
Protect the edge.

Teither

Quote from: haresear on March 19, 2011, 11:49:16 PM
You can learn new things and use them when called upon. You can't learn too much and I don't believe that by knowing more about the theory of casting your fishing will suffer.

Alex

Alex,
        Mmmm ...... not sure about that. Knowledge should, of course, be a benefit. Sometimes, however, I think there is too much agonising, theorising and nit-picking over these things, with negative consequences. In fact, while hoping your hin' end is now progressing towards being pain and discomfort free, reading this thread I do suspect there may well be a lot of other sore bums when heids are at last disgorged !  :D
       Malcolm, I wish it were true that " you just know ... "  whatever. I don't think that's true at all. Once experience and long practice has led to high levels of accomplishment it may well be that the intuitive faculty kicks in. But it's not there for a lot  - certainly isn't with me. I rather agree with the assertion that learning while fishing with experienced anglers is the way that many would  learn best.
T

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