Casting

[Black-Don]

I would love to be able to cast like some folk and be able to say I'm going to present this fly using , for example, a circle cast ?

There's no doubt being able to cast with technical excellence can only improve your fishing experience. I admire folk who have the gift and ability to be able to cast like a pro.

I can shoot a line probably as far as the next guy and put a fly where I want to but wish I could be able to say that I can cast proficiently.

[Wildfisher]

Alex mentioned it in an earlier post, its a balance of all things.

Of course it is but ability to cast  is a major factor in it. To put it another way, all other things being equal the better caster will do better. Yes we can all cite exceptions; we have all seen cases where the novice or the guy who has just duffed up a cast catches a fish, hell I've done it myself often enough!   :lol:  Being able to cast that extra few feet from the bank on a loch or cast with pin point accuracy to a fish on a clear spring creak is more than often the difference between success and failure. I have seen it too often to believe anything else. But I come back to need, if the need is not there or not perceived to be there then why bother?  In Scotland you can catch lots of fish without being a great caster - I am not a great caster and  I catch lots of fish. I don't do as well as I could when It am in New Zealand, but well enough not to get that bothered about it.  QED.  

I don't t believe top gun casters are necessarily top-gun anglers by  the way. I ran a poll on this a while back in fact which really pissed off a few lurkers from another forum. That was never the intention of course.  :whistle2

[Andrew Moray]

.... but these 5 points are really all there is to it.

Aye, that'll be right ... 

[Fishtales]

And there is the nub of the discussion. The five points are what I would expect to show a beginner just starting out. It was the way I was taught by my mate and it is how I have mentored others in my own way. Everything else usually comes after a time gaining experience and overcoming obstacles as they arise. Learning all the other casts from an instructor is like taking an advanced driving course. It doesn't affect the experience but advances knowledge. That knowledge isn't required by the majority of participants but there are those that wish to expand there knowledge and become proficient at casting but does it actually enhance their fishing? Does the casting take over from the fishing when a situation arises for them to practice a cast or do they just go on fishing instinctively? Once someone has learned to cast and they are enjoying their fishing is there really a need for them to go to casting classes to learn advanced techniques that they are probably already using in their own way?

[Teither]

Alan I am no caster, never had a lesson in my life. So I tend to keep out of casting threads because I don't know what I'm talking about But I must take issue with the 5 rules.


Andy

:? :? :? :? :? [ 0ne for each of your five disputations ! 
Exerod,
             Did you forget to insert one or two smilies in your post ? There is no doubt at all that these 5 principles are fundamental to efficient casting. I've seen a fair number of excellent casters, including Alan [ much as it sometimes pains me to compliment the bugger ! ] and they all deliver on these principles. Efficient casting, as Buzz says, is what we're talking about.
T

[Malcolm]

Alan I am no caster, never had a lesson in my life. So I tend to keep out of casting threads because I don't know what I'm talking about and even if I did I struggle to put it into words.
But I must take issue with the 5 rules.

No.1 Plainly nonsense!
No.2 True to a point, it depends on what you are trying to do.
No.3 Can't really argue with the first part of that!
No.4 True to a point. Again where you put the power depends on what you are trying to do, there is no one right place for the power.
No.5 In a river fishing situation there will almost certainly be some slack on the final delivery.

Maybe they are fine as a starting point in an ideal world but they make no sense to me on the river bank.


Andy

Andy, I'm in the same boat as you and Sandy is the same. I got some lessons in double handed casting at the casting club from Teither - who isn't a qualified instructor either - and then I got a short lesson from Gary Scott at the club as well as watching other good casters like Ian Kirk and Andrew Toft. It's a helpful environment because you don't have fishing to distract you.

I hope Sandy doesn't mind drawing an example from his casting. I watched Sandy fishing a team of flies in a 20 mph, right to left wind with a 20 ft high bank behind, very efficient it all was too. No tight loops or straight lines. There's just 40 years of fishing in there, stopping fankles, compensating for wind a just casting efficiently without thinking using a style that stops any trouble happening. Sandy isn't alone of course - most of us on this forum are the same whether it's fishing in hugely overgrown rivers or on awkward bankside spaces on big windy lochs. It's people like us who prompted me to say in an earlier post that the way we teach for Scottish conditions isn't always right. There's a good reason why experienced casters who aren't taught have developed the styles they have: it's because they work better than anything else. 

I'm not downplaying the role of casting instructor - far from it - casting instructors are useful creatures indeed. If  I had a need to learn a particular technique I would find one who was good at that technique. If I was a beginner then an instructor would shorten the learning path considerably.
 

[Black-Don]

I jist poot the flees where the troots are ?

:worried

[scotty9]

I have to totally disagree with your breakdown on the 5 principles Andy.

The straight tip path - ok yes it very much depends what you are trying to do. But look at it in simple terms - if the tip dips under the straight line you make a tailing loop, it it rises over it - you may not make a loop at all (or you could actually tail just to confuse!).

The second is totally true. If you use the same size casting stroke for a long line as a short line you will tail.

Number four, there is a proper place the 'power' should be applied - at the end! Peak power coincides with the fastest rotation of the rod, which is towards the end of the stroke. Generally if it comes before you are going to tail. Just about everyone does this whether they know it or not.

Number 5 relates to during the actual casting stroke, not the final line delivery. We are talking about when the line is being pulled by the rod. Try piling the line at your feet hanging from the rod tip, now try and cast, it's not going to work. Everyone has made that cast when you have too much line in the air and you can't control it and all of a sudden you have a mass of wavy line sagging everywhere.

But aside from all the theorising, feck sake, don't argue about all this stuff. If someone makes a cast, they get the outcome that they want (whether good or bad to an outside viewer), and they are happy with it then where's the problem? And the debate on instructors and such - casting isn't rocket science, anyone can work it out themselves, an instructor might make certain tasks easier for you. I don't need my uni lecturers to learn what I'm studying in my degree but it sure does make it easier.

[Brian Mcg]

The thing is Casting IMO is Geeky but I am not harming anyone.
If I went FISHING with Malcolm,buzz,frank I would learn something,no doubt about it. If I went CASTING with Alan,Scott,Alex I would learn something no doubt about it. The reason for that is simple,I want to.
If people think they have all the answers they are wrong,if they go fishing,catch fish and are happy with their lot then happy days. Or are they really happy?
The five essentials they are well.................. Essential


Brian

[Wildfisher]

If people think they have all the answers they are wrong,if they go fishing,catch fish and are happy with their lot then happy days. Or are they really happy?

I keep coming back to the same word.

Need.