GCC - Old and slow compared to fast and modern

[Malcolm]

Craig (Buster1980) had asked me to bring along a couple of old carbon rods after I said in another thread that these are better in my hands than old rods. Especially for switch and spey casting. However like a few others on this forum I also cast further with them than the very modern rods. Weird but true. I took along a couple of rods that I have had since before Scotty9 was in primary school.

Three of the lads - Willie, Craig and Scott - were practising aspects of distance casting while Alan was offering sage words and encouragement.

One of my rods we didn't get to try properly as we ran out of light.The other was  my old favourite river rod 16 years old and very very slow - 7.5 ft 3/4 weight with a normal cheap 3 weight line from Steve Parton.

The lads were practising with tournament spec lines and very powerful and precise 9ft 5 weights from Sage, Loomis and Orvis. All of them would have been great in a 5 weight competition.

Not really a fair comparison. And yet there was very little difference in the average cast. On a horrible night for casting Scott was casting almost 100ft with the 3 wt and averaging somewhere in the low 90s. On a normal night would have been putting it at least 10ft further. Craig and Willie were also putting out very long lines but I wasn't at the measuring end so don't know exactly how far they cast. Now just think how far they would have cast with a nice slow 5 weight!

[scotty9]

My take on this is on a physics basis.

The simple compotent of energy into the cast is applying as much energy as possible in a straight line. If all the energy is directed in a straight line the cast will be better than if directed in a more circular direction. Vectors and all that, I can't remember all the theory but I'm sure what I'm saying is sound.

Now if we take the softer rod, it allows us to apply energy to the line over a longer distance as the tip will track straighter for a longer time. And this is what I believe caused what we saw last night. I firmly believe this is purely down to us not being able to bend the stiffer rods enough yet to apply the energy over a longer path. If we bend the stiff rod to the same degree we'll be moving it a hell of a bit faster and get a further cast. It's an energy into the line game, not the recovery of the rod. Look up some videos of the top casters and freeze the frame as the rod passes vertical and look how straight the tip will be tracking towards the target and just how bent the rod is.

I've looked at my video form the other night and with the help of some guys on sexyloops already seen how massively early I rotate the rod and don't have the tip on a straight line apply the energy directed to the target.

[Wildfisher]

I firmly believe this is purely down to us not being able to bend the stiffer rods enough yet to apply the energy over a longer path.

And might that tie in with many good distance casters being big strong lads like Paul Arden?

[Malcolm]

Scott,

The new rods are clear in their advertising - " Crafted for the expert angler who wants to throw that clouser...yaba ada dada etc". I've never reached that level and for the punters like me a nice soft rod from a couple of decades ago throws an more controllable and, at need, a longer line than a 2010 Sage TCX. I was surprised however at what was happening with good longer distance casters like yourself. I do expect that in the not too distant that you will be casting vast distances with the new stiff stuff - I also expect I won't.

You are totally right in that the average guy can't really make use of the full capabilities although many will like them. Each to his own.

Admin,

I think strength is a minor part of the equation except at the extremes - and none of us are close to that!   

[scotty9]

And might that tie in with many good distance casters being big strong lads like Paul Arden?

Maybe at the most extreme end but Lasse Karlsson on sexyloops has a video of a 140' #5 weight cast, he's an absolute beanpole!  Perhaps given the same expert timing, the stronger guy might case further, I can't say I know - purely theorising!

Malcolm - I think we all just need better timing. Delayed rotation with a corresponding haul is all it seems to be. The only catch is that that one thing is going to take a long time to get there  :lol:

[Wildfisher]

It's worth watching  Steve Rajeff's backcast in this clip and in particular the point at which he drifts the rod back. It of course is harder to time it right than it is to watch it. 

Mel Krieger and Steve Rajeff - backcast

[Wildfisher]

Some of you will have already seen this, other not. It's really an expansion on what Scott said above

http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/uploads/biomechanics.flv