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Open Forums => Environmental => Open Boards Viewable By Guests => Nature => Topic started by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 11:26:26 AM

Title: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 11:26:26 AM
I removed  1/2 doz.  ticks from The Dug when I got home from the North West at the weekend. One had expanded to the size of a blackcurrant. Nasty wee devils  these. Looks like it might be a bad year for them after the mild winter, so check carefully. Lymes disease is not nice.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 11:42:51 AM
What did you treat the dug with in advance? Advantix or Frontline or something else?
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 11:50:56 AM
I didn't even know there was such a thing. I have to say I am not comfortable with the idea of applying  systemic insecticides to The Dug  (I assume that's what they are?), I would not use them on myself. Admittedly I know nothing about them or any side effects they may have. Perhaps it would be more of an issue if I lived farther west though.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 11:57:20 AM
OK, found it. The ticks may be less of a risk to The Dug. 

http://www.dogsonly.org/Woof/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=2&tid=29 (http://www.dogsonly.org/Woof/toast.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=2&tid=29)

Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 12:03:36 PM
Quote from: admin on June 01, 2012, 11:50:56 AM
I didn't even know there was such a thing. I have to say I am not comfortable with the idea of applying  systemic insecticides to The Dug  (I assume that's what they are?), I would not use them on myself. Admittedly I know nothing about them or any side effects they may have. Perhaps it would be more of an issue if I lived farther west though.

It's a balance of risks of course (they are systemic insecticides), and not just to the Dug but then of the Dug transferring them to you.
A dose lasts a month, we restrict it to tick season, and have had no problems, The Dug is on deer trails daily.you could just do it for West Coast trips.
I know we have an expert on the forum, hopefully he'll comment on any side-effects, but we have not seen any on our badly-behaved black Lab.
Any tick bite here that develops a red ring around it and you are on antibiotics for a fortnight, Lymes disease is not to be trifled with.
I have seen visiting dugs miserable with them, and a blackcurrant sized one is small beer, trust me.

EDIT- we use Frontline, not Advantix.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 12:07:22 PM
I heard the banning of sheep dips has caused a tick population explosion, don't know if that's true or not.  Do you have to get these treatments via the vet?
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 12:09:19 PM
Vet only I think.
Wrong again, available on the web, cheaper from our Vet.
Must remember to consult SWMBO before posting pish in the Forum!
Still wrong! We use Frontline Combo, which is prescription only- correct at the time of typing!
I'll give up on this thread until our expert comes online!
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 12:14:21 PM
I remember returning from Glenelg one WINTER and finding a blackcurrant sized tick on me. I had no idea it was even there. That was back in the late 1970s and  Lymes disease had not been identified in the UK then I don't think. That's the danger, unless you spot them they can be on you for a very long time indeed and you won't even know it. There's a lot to be said for chest waders when hill loch fishing.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Otter Spotter on June 01, 2012, 12:19:07 PM
We use Frontline on the cat, I believe that once it has dried it has no effect on humans.
From the site

FRONTLINE Spot On is non-systemic.

FRONTLINE Spot On has a non-systemic mode of action. FRONTLINE Spot On kills parasites through contact, not via the pet's bloodstream.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Malcolm on June 01, 2012, 12:25:40 PM
We dosed our elkhound with Avantix this week. She has spent the last couple of days scratching. In fact she was so eager to scratch that she was stumbling when she walked as her back legs were twitching forward, as she walked, in her haste get at the itchiness. Of course there is always the possibility of this having nothing to do with the dose and she was just itchy with moulting but I'm not taking the chance again. Thankfully it has eased off now - perhaps due to a bath and giving her coat a long brush out.

This was the first time we have used Avantix after years of using Frontline.

Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Ripple on June 01, 2012, 12:38:04 PM
We just started using Frontline,  I have always just removed them manually.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on June 01, 2012, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on June 01, 2012, 12:25:40 PM
We dosed our elkhound with Avantix this week. She has spent the last couple of days scratching. In fact she was so eager to scratch that she was stumbling when she walked as her back legs were twitching forward, as she walked, in her haste get at the itchiness. Of course there is always the possibility of this having nothing to do with the dose and she was just itchy with moulting but I'm not taking the chance again. Thankfully it has eased off now - perhaps due to a bath and giving her coat a long brush out.

This was the first time we have used Avantix after years of using Frontline.



From the datasheet

On very rare occasions reactions in dogs may include transient skin sensitivity (increased local itching, scratching and rubbing, hair loss and redness at the application site) or lethargy that are generally self resolving.
In very rare cases dogs may show behaviour changes (agitation, restlessness, whining or rolling), gastro-intestinal symptoms (vomiting, diarrhoea, hypersalivation, diminished appetite) and neurological signs such as unsteady movement and twitching in dogs susceptible to the ingredient permethrin. These signs are generally transient and self-resolving.

Almost all drugs have possible side effects even simple ones like aspirin and paractamol. Side effects in drugs are usually categorised  as occurring 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000, 1:10000 depending on frequency. Very rare is probably 1:10000 - and you are just unlucky.

I injured myself was injured recently and was given Tramadol.  I had most of the side effects on the datasheet  even the 1:100000 ones - the only ones I did not get were heart attack and death. :shock: :shock: Lots of people take Tramadol (some even for pleasure  :8) - and lots of people get great benefit. I was just unlucky. Removing the drug from use would deprive a lot of people of  a pain free existence but I won't be taking it again.

Same with tick and flea treatments or MMR vaccination in kids - it is, in general all for the greater good, as it were - just a total bastard if you are one of the unfortunates. The chances of your dug getting Lyme disease (and it is a nasty disease in dogs as well as humans)  in a tick rich area is probably greater than the risk of side effects from the drug. It's a sod if your dog is the one to react to the drug.

Quote from: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 12:09:19 PM
Vet only I think.
Wrong again, available on the web, cheaper from our Vet.
Must remember to consult SWMBO before posting pish in the Forum!
Still wrong! We use Frontline Combo, which is prescription only- correct at the time of typing!
I'll give up on this thread until our expert comes online!

It is prescription only but you can get prescriptions filled on t'web -  just make sure you're not sold a fake, or from your vet who will probably charge more!

Quote from: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 12:03:36 PM
It's a balance of risks of course (they are systemic insecticides), and not just to the Dug but then of the Dug transferring them to you.
A dose lasts a month, we restrict it to tick season, and have had no problems, The Dug is on deer trails daily.you could just do it for West Coast trips.
I know we have an expert on the forum, hopefully he'll comment on any side-effects, but we have not seen any on our badly-behaved black Lab.
Any tick bite here that develops a red ring around it and you are on antibiotics for a fortnight, Lymes disease is not to be trifled with.
I have seen visiting dugs miserable with them, and a blackcurrant sized one is small beer, trust me.

EDIT- we use Frontline, not Advantix.

Don't mess with ticks!

Hope I'm not the expert - I'm only an equine gynaecologist, obstetrician and paediatrician - who once did dogs and cats :roll:
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on June 01, 2012, 06:22:26 PM
Actually Frontline is not prescription only ( a POM-V or POM-VPS ) :oops2 but is an NFA-VPS so it can only be supplied by an RQP or appropriately qualified SQP, ie your vet, your local (if they have an appropriately qualified SQP or an RQP) pet superstore or an internet pharmacy ( and they should have  an appropriately qualified SQP or an RQP!)  :roll: :roll:
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Inchlaggan on June 01, 2012, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: emc on June 01, 2012, 06:22:26 PM
Actually Frontline is not prescription only ( a POM-V or POM-VPS ) :oops2 but is an NFA-VPS so it can only be supplied by an RQP or appropriately qualified SQP, ie your vet, your local (if they have an appropriately qualified SQP or an RQP) pet superstore or an internet pharmacy ( and they should have  an appropriately qualified SQP or an RQP!)  :roll: :roll:
That reads like "expert" to me...........
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Wildfisher on June 01, 2012, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: emc on June 01, 2012, 01:02:55 PM
I'm only an equine gynaecologist,

That's interesting Euan. Any tips on how to deal with the occasional salmon fishing  fanny I meet  who goes  horsing along the banks of the Don spooking the trout?    :lol:





Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Ripple on June 01, 2012, 10:34:04 PM
Hmm disappointing to read that front line might not be a deterrent, I have a long haired cat and its not easy to find ticks.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Noddy on June 01, 2012, 10:55:35 PM
We try and avoid using any of these treatments on our Jack Russell cross.  Theres a noticeable dip in his well being after being treated.  We almost lost him two years ago the vet had written him off, he was jaundiced and not eating.  The vet asked us to consider putting him to sleep.  He had been treated with a spot on treatment a week or so before that. 

Jim
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on June 02, 2012, 01:13:43 AM
We live in an area where ticks and Lyme disease is a problem and I have had always found Frontline to be effective. For the odd tick I just use some Frontline spray on a bit of cotton wool dabbed around the tick.

The most important things to be aware of are that (1) ticks are a danger to both dogs and cats and should be controlled and (2) that not all drugs work effectively, everywhere, all the time. ...... just make sure that you do use something if your dog or cat is exposed to ticks and try something else if it doesn't.

Oh yes, and Moray is right - don't use Bob Martins. :roll:


Quote from: Ripple on June 01, 2012, 10:34:04 PM
Hmm disappointing to read that front line might not be a deterrent, I have a long haired cat and its not easy to find ticks.

Seresto is fine for cats. The makers even claim that the collar is designed to give way if the cat becomes trapped by it.

Quote from: admin on June 01, 2012, 07:20:34 PM


That's interesting Euan. Any tips on how to deal with the occasional salmon fishing  fanny I meet  who goes  horsing along the banks of the Don spooking the trout?    :lol:







Fred, our first option, speaking from a professional capacity you understand, is physical restraint. If that doesn't work we use chemical restraint. If that doesn't work we shoot them!
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: superscot on May 04, 2014, 12:00:46 AM
Old thread but still a  serious subject, seems we are going to be in for a sore season of them

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/epidemic-ticks-hit-britain-summer-3484449#.U2PaCzCWtMU.facebook (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/epidemic-ticks-hit-britain-summer-3484449#.U2PaCzCWtMU.facebook)

Just mind and check yerself after a day out and include the Dug
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Bobfly on May 04, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
The wee tick removal tweezer things from the vets have an anti-clockwise instruction arrow on them so maybe ticks are maybe more easily wound out that direction. Years ago I just used to pull them straight out but a bit of head always got left  !! :(
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Fishtales on May 05, 2014, 12:06:08 AM
No need to twist or you might twist the mouth parts off and leave them embedded.

Nice video I found :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/science/earth/how-does-a-tick-do-its-dirty-work-research-video-offers-a-clue.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/science/earth/how-does-a-tick-do-its-dirty-work-research-video-offers-a-clue.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on May 05, 2014, 03:36:24 PM
Only twist if you are using a Tom O'Tick removal tool, otherwise a straight pull with a pair of very fine tweezers as near to the mouthparts as you can get. There was some research done back in 2006 where T o'T was found to be the best. [Veterinary Record (2006, 159, 526-5290]
Mind you research is not always necessarily correct........

Quote from: Alan on May 05, 2014, 12:18:28 AM
:lol: There are some tics only experienced barmaids should be allowed to remove.

Is there a register of such barmaids, willing to accompany wild fishers into the wilds of Scotland. :8)
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Allan Crawford on May 05, 2014, 05:15:58 PM
Our vet recommended twisting and said it was because of the mouth parts
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2014, 05:30:27 PM
Quote from: emc on May 05, 2014, 03:36:24 PM
Is there a register of such barmaids, willing to accompany wild fishers into the wilds of Scotland. :8)

After considerable research the answer is no. Such services are not listed. There was once a barmaid at my local hotel who, it eventually became known, offered a considerable range of "Room Services" to moneyed Gentlemen anglers. When this became known, she was sacked with the memorable line that "she had more suck than the Dyson".
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Midgie Hater on May 05, 2014, 10:03:12 PM
The turn this thread has taken reminds me of a visit to the Bridge of Orchy Hotel about 15 years ago. I could tell you - but then i'd have to kill you ;)
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Part-time on May 06, 2014, 12:16:57 AM
I find the O Tom tick remover works best and always use it by rotating it anticlockwise - I heard the same that its to do with the way a ticks mouthparts work. It absolutely NOT recommended (I'm told you can get lymes just by touching a tick) but in the past I have removed ticks by just gently rubbing them round and round anti clockwise with my finger for a minute or two.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Hill loch gold on May 06, 2014, 09:38:59 AM
I think i had better buy a tick removal tool before i go to torridon in 5weeks. I see part-time recommending 1 there. Any other recommendations, or will any tick removal tool do?
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Midgie Hater on May 07, 2014, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: Alan on May 07, 2014, 02:19:08 PM
She is on the register :8)

I was over age at the time ;)

Anyway, the thing about OTom is that all the examples they show on their site feature reasonably sizeable tics. How effective is it with the smallest ones, i.e those you notice early? I would have thought a tool like that would be difficult to deploy on them until they become a bit more bloated, and yet surely the sooner you extract them the better? For me it's been a pair of small tweezers. That said I've had a small number of extraction failures since they started bothering me, but still (I think) managed to get the rest out with some persistence, pain and blood-letting.
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Midgie Hater on May 07, 2014, 11:20:37 PM
Quote from: guest on May 07, 2014, 10:36:45 PM
You get two sizes of twisters.  A small one for the small ticks and a larger one for the larger ticks. Quite clever really

Yes. Obviously I had not realised this having only looked at the main page video. Sometimes sarcasm really is the lowest form of (t)wit.

Quote from: Alan on May 07, 2014, 11:09:44 PM
I'd be careful with normal tweezers, there is a tendency to squeeze and nip the body clean off leaving the head still in, the tweezers i posted grip from the side and with round points so you don't cut the rascal when you pull.

I agree Alan. I've had a couple of scares that way as stated although I tended to ensure I dug deep in order to get at them, which often meant drawing blood unfortunately, though not thankfully the blood the tic had sucked. I saw the Lifesystems one somewhere and reviews varied a little but I guess it's like any product. If used correctly it does what it says on the tin. I may well, after some concerns about this the past, go back to the twist method using the appropriate tool(s).
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Midgie Hater on May 07, 2014, 11:53:45 PM
It's cool Andy :)
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: superscot on May 08, 2014, 12:57:31 PM
See it hit the BBC  News Scotland........... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-27325018 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-27325018)

The link to the Mountaineering Council of Scotland (MCofS)  web site has a very good video worth a wee watch

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/hillwalking-essentials-video.asp (http://www.mcofs.org.uk/hillwalking-essentials-video.asp)
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on May 08, 2014, 01:05:49 PM
Quote from: Alan on May 07, 2014, 11:09:44 PM
I'd be careful with normal tweezers, there is a tendency to squeeze and nip the body clean off leaving the head still in, the tweezers i posted grip from the side and with round points so you don't cut the rascal when you pull.

Nipping the "head" off with thick tweezers  can also result in  squeezing of the abdomen, forcing the contents right in to you before you leave the mouthparts behind!
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: emc on May 08, 2014, 08:54:45 PM
Quote from: Alan on May 08, 2014, 07:06:52 PM
I have only ever had one, my first, that made it to full bloat, it was the biggest bodied tic i have seen to date, every other since has been tiny, and last season most were damn near invisible, but out of maybe 30 or 40 none got blood out of me before i caught the rascals, they scratch off too, thats how i usually find them.

Trouble is the nasties are already in the tick before they get to you. Usually we get bitten by the nymph. The tick will have become infected in the earlier stage of it's life cycle as a larva, when it sucked blood from an infected animal - so you can still transfer the bacteria when the tick is still very small in the nymphal stage
Title: Re: Ticks
Post by: Midgie Hater on May 08, 2014, 10:15:38 PM
Enlightening advice here. So far so good for me despite slightly dubious extraction methods up until now but (sorry) "once bitten..." etc.