Thinking of finally moving to lighter setup from previous comfort zone of 6,7 wt range.
Interested in members views on ideal toolkit for hill loch in terms of rod length & wt?? Fully appreciate that much of these choices will be influenced by personal preference and conditions.
However when fishing in remote hill areas where you don't have the luxury of going to car and selecting or changing rod or having 2nd rod in the boat I am interested in recommendation around "ideal" rod in this environment where wind and conditions are at best unpredictable?
I've been looking at various 4/5 wt 4pc rods including, Greys GrXi+, Orvis Clearwater, Chas Burns etc. Have seen good reviews on Orvis Clearwater 10' 5wt and from Burns.
I'd go with guest on this - 9 or 10 foot 5 weight. I use a foot for general bank fishing etc and sometimes a 10 foot on boats, but if using dry fly I prefer the 9 foot as it's not so hard on the arms.
I bought a scierra hm3 9ft 5/6# a couple of yrs ago and find it ideal for this sort of fishing. Its a good wee rod, got it half price from glasgow angling centre when they were selling them off. :D
However, i don't think there's anything wrong with a 9 or 10ft 6# for this type of fishing. More often than not i use my 10ft 6# marksman drifter, when hill loch fishing. :D
Alan :D
Like you I have used a 10' #7 weight rod for years, I have a 9'6" #7 as backup but have only used it once to make sure I liked it :) I am happy with a seven weight because in a gale I like to feel the line and the rod, lighter rods I would assume that feel would go. In really strong gales I have seen me put a #8 on the rod :) The longer rod also makes it easier to avoid heather and grass on hillsides :) I don't particularly like fishing from boats but the 10' rod makes it easier to get the flies working on the surface farther from the boat before casting again.
Thanks guys, yes as I said I know much of this is down to individual preference but your comments are helpful and sensible. I too like longer 10 foot both to avoid the scenery around the bank and in the boat for longer dangle. Going to give the Orvis Clearwater 10' 5wt a go found a good price of around £140 at Uttings Outdoors online. Have test driven one previously and it felt great for the money. Not sure about Orvis line (hydros 3D ) that was suggested given the hefty price tag of £75!
I always end up coming back to a 10ft 6/7, usually with a 7 weight, just find it gives me the ability to put the flies were I want them, great for a team of wets which is my go to method and I like to use large flies, I increase length of my leader for dry fly to help presentation. I love the 9ft 5 weight for fishing dry fly but rarely use it as it would mean carrying it as a spare rod, tried a 10ft 4 weight last season, didnt like it from the bank as I couldnt get the flies were I wanted them but great for float tubing.
It's certainly much easier to cast farther with a heavier set up
I've used a 10' #5 Bloke rod for a few years for the lochs; mainly from the bank and sometimes boats. Does all that I need and I've never had to stop fishing due to gales although admittedly it can restrict how/where you fish on a loch.
Everyone seems to have their own manufacturer preferences but it seems to me the 9' or 10' #5/6 seems to be what the majority of folk use - as per most of the above posts.
I did use 11' Daiwa's for boat and bank for years and survived :)
Quote from: admin on March 23, 2013, 06:28:23 PM
It's certainly much easier to cast farther with a heavier set up
Yes I think it is, though thats not to say you cant cast just as far with a 5wt if conditions are right. Distance helps get a few extra fish but mostly I find it just helps get the line out far enough when conditions are against you.
Quote from: Colliemore on March 23, 2013, 06:38:56 PM
Yes I think it is, though thats not to say you cant cast just as far with a 5wt if conditions are right. Distance helps get a few extra fish but mostly I find it just helps get the line out far enough when conditions are against you.
Agree with that but I think that in windy conditions casting distance is less of an issue: fish dont spook as easily. I can usually find somewhere a bit more sheltered or a bank with the wind to the side/slightly behind and it will carry the line further. I guess for my fishing confidence I'd rather have a line weight a bit light for windy conditions than one a bit heavy for normal/calm conditions. I suppose if I had casting lessons I could make a #7 land as light as a #5 :)
Lochs and lochans.
From the boat- 9-10ft #6-7.
From the bank- 7-8ft #5-6.
An 8- 9ft #6 does not, IMHO, produce a reasonable compromise for both situations.
Quote from: Part-time on March 23, 2013, 06:48:16 PM
Agree with that but I think that in windy conditions casting distance is less of an issue: fish dont spook as easily. I can usually find somewhere a bit more sheltered or a bank with the wind to the side/slightly behind and it will carry the line further. I guess for my fishing confidence I'd rather have a line weight a bit light for windy conditions than one a bit heavy for normal/calm conditions. I suppose if I had casting lessons I could make a #7 land as light as a #5 :)
Even with the 7 wt I'm trying to work with the wind but I can land the 7wt nice and light in decent conditions.
Quote from: Colliemore on March 23, 2013, 07:05:26 PM
Even with the 7 wt I'm trying to work with the wind but I can land the 7wt nice and light in decent conditions.
Aye, casting skill no doubt comes into it (I don't have much :)) and my using a #5 is quite possibly a compromise due to my lack of casting skill. I cetainly can't land a #7 as light as a #5. I still think a lot of what you use comes down to your confidence in it.
I seem to change my "favourite" rod from season to season with maybe even a change or two during the year. A 10' #5 Bloke has been good for me a lot of the time but I also use a 9' #5 travel rod a lot as well ...and this season I'm thinking to go back to a 9' 6" #6 for a while, just to see how I get on!
I've never owned one, but I'm always on the lookout for a medium/fast action 9' 6" rod in #5 as this, in my wandering imagination, is my "ideal" hill loch rod that will cure all ills and catch me far, far better fish. :lol:
Quote from: Alan on March 24, 2013, 12:25:18 AM
9' 5 weight for me, i can cast a 9' footer further than either a longer or heavier outfit, especially over a day, just less leverage and a faster rotation, no sunk lines though.
Same here, although I will also use an intermediate line sometimes. I prefer fishing a #4 but a #5 is probably more of an all round rod.
Alex
For a while I fished with a 9ft 4wt, it is a great wee rod and lots of fun but I occasionally had problems with larger heavier flies in windy conditions. For the last couple of season I have been using a 10ft 5wt, handles larger flies and adverse condition better than the 4wt, but you can feel the increased weight and load when casting. I have also recently purchased a 9ft 5wt and on my first trip this season it was a pleasure to fish. I was not fishing long enough to tell if it was much easier going than the 10ft rod, but I had no problems hooking heather even with steep banks in places.
It will come down to personal preference, but I don't think you would go too far wrong with 5wt in either 9ft or 10ft.
I use a 10 ft 3/4wt and it does everything I want it to do. Wind can be a problem but you don't need to cast that far in my opinion.
Cheers
Paul
I've experimented with a 9ft, #5 but in any sort of wind I've ended up going back to the 10ft, #7 setup that I was reared on. I cast across my body a lot if the wind is right to left so that I have the option of fishing more perpindicular to the bank and getting the flies coming across the waves or swinging roung. I find the #7 allows me to punch across the wind better. I probably lose a bit on presentation, but I'd rather have the option for the distance and ability to fish better in a wind. I do like the lighter set-up from the boat though - like others I'd prefer 10 ft though to work the bob.
AT
Quote from: Tweed on March 26, 2013, 10:41:50 AM
I've experimented with a 9ft, #5 but in any sort of wind I've ended up going back to the 10ft, #7 setup that I was reared on. I cast across my body a lot if the wind is right to left so that I have the option of fishing more perpindicular to the bank and getting the flies coming across the waves or swinging roung. I find the #7 allows me to punch across the wind better. I probably lose a bit on presentation, but I'd rather have the option for the distance and ability to fish better in a wind. I do like the lighter set-up from the boat though - like others I'd prefer 10 ft though to work the bob.
AT
I'm with you on the 10' #7, if I could only have one rod that would be it and for many years it was, 10' #7/8, DT 7 for the lochs and WF 8 for the sea/burn (and the loch).
We haven't had the same amount of wind in the last few seasons but even so, last season with my lighter burn set up (that didn't sea a trout burn on account of the cold and infernal deluge down where the trout streams are to be found) 9'6" #5 I had some some success on the calm days but was left rather wanting on one rather windy day, wouldn't have faired much better with the heavier set up but I rather fancy I'd have managed to actually wet the line, all be it a short one. :lol:
I think people would be surprised how far you can cast with 3 or 4 wt rods , even in a wind.
On a gd day casting 30 yards of line is not a problem. Having said that 10 yards is fine fir me.
Cheers
Paul
I always carry two rods on the hill. A 10ft 5# and a 10ft 7#. You only need to fall and break a rod 7 miles from the road 15 minutes after starting to fish once to value the second rod. Carrying the extra reel and line (OK lines so I've an intermediate for both) is a bit of a drag I guess.
On occasion if there is a nice burn I'll take a long a 6ft glass 2# for a bit of fun too. Its surprising what lurks in some of those tiny bits of silvery water.
Ten foot 5wt for the boat and will also use it on the bank ,a nine foot 5wt for the bank will over most conditions gave up the 7 wts to much effort for a full days fishing each to their own
I only carry one rod onto the hill. The one occasion I carried two I broke one, the one that was attached to the rucksack :)
How many rods have you broken falling Paul? I have fallen loads of times but the rod has always survived. I carry mine in my hand either made up or broken down into its three sections, still made up and ready for action. Carry it in the downhill hand when traversing around or down a hill. If you do slip put your free hand down to stop you and if you can't stop toss the rod away from you into the heather/grass.
Sometimes I'll carry a spare, a 6 piece in the corner of the rucksack. A lot of the time I wont it depends on the outing. Once I was grateful of the spare and on another occasion my fishing pal was grateful but not very often has it been needed.
Quite a few years ago I bought a 9' 6# sage rod, and its been the best thing I have ever done. It felt so easy in my hand, and just suited my style perfectly.
Its been used for almost all types of conditions, but the main thing I think, is that everyone is different in style and requirements, and should try many different outfits (as you all will know many retailers have testing facilities, use it), you will know when you get one that suits you perfectly.
In addition to rod length/line weight for this "ideal" hill loch setup - what strength leader do people prefer? I tend to use either Drennan sub-surface 4lb or Maxima clear 4lb nylon tippet on a tapered leader. Not really into fluo unless I'm pegging out lures at a rainbow fishery (just lowered myself even deeper into contempt on this forum :-D). Judging by the discarded leader you sometimes find lochside (still attached to huge flies) some people prefer 10lb!
Quote from: mantog on May 21, 2013, 02:32:41 PM
In addition to rod length/line weight for this "ideal" hill loch setup - what strength leader do people prefer? I tend to use either Drennan sub-surface 4lb or Maxima clear 4lb nylon tippet on a tapered leader. Not really into fluo unless I'm pegging out lures at a rainbow fishery
I like the fulling mill world class fluoro and use it for all my wet flea fishing, normally 5 or 6lb, but sometimes i'll go upto 7lb if i'm after big fish. I've been using it for a few seasons now and it's never really let me doon. :D
Since i'm heading for Assynt in a couple of week thought i'd join the fray here as i'm an experienced hill man but relatively inexperienced fly fisher.
The concensus in the thread so far seems to be for 5# or above and quite long - 9/10 ft if I read a-right. Only Bibio seems to favour a lighter rod, and that was going to be my preference on this occasion - albeit my 3/4# is 8ft with quite a soft action (mainly because I bought it for my local river - the Devon, which is not that wide through most of its course. My only other rod (which was my first and a compromise river/loch rod as I could only afford one at the time) is a 9'6" 6/7 with a fairly stiff action, which, perhaps oddly, has a DT6 floating line (and a DT7 sinker on spare spool. Reason again because it was for the river and I felt delicacy would be better than a WF "splashdown" on such a water). The 3/4# has (again, bizarrely perhaps) a WF4 - mainly to help my casting with such a (for me) whippy rod. Should I take both up the hill? (not a problem for me if experienced fishers think so) If not, which would be better? I'm planning to get a WF for the heavier rod anyway, so that it's better suited to larger lochs and the 3/4 is reserved for rivers and smaller waters, but I cant see why (again, in my relatively limited experience) a lighter rod wouldn't be ok - aside from the issues of wind of course. And like someone else said, casting a long line isn't neccessarily required when fish are in the margins (provided we dont stomp towards the bank!).
Quote from: Midgie Hater on May 22, 2013, 12:03:39 AM
Should I take both up the hill?
My suggestion would be to take your 9'6''with your new WF line. It should be a wee bit better suited to the weather you might get and pulling wet flies but still fine for fishing dries. That said if you enjoy fishing with your 8' rod give it a go on some of lochs that aren't too remote and see how you get on.
Thanks Part Time :) Yes, I think, in hindsight that's a good idea. I do love the 8ft 3/4. I can actually feel what's going on as the blank on the 6/7 is, and has been described by reviewers and owners as "lifeless", but of course, with a bit of altitude and the probable winds/inclement weather that can mean, the 3/4 could be more of an impediment than an advantage - as i've discovered when trying to cast even on the bank of my "local" with a good breeze and a few healthy gusts. Having said that, as mentioned I dont mind the extra weight (in fact the 3/4 - even with rod tube - is ultra-light - Sonik SK3 - lovely rod if anyone's interested!) so I suppose I'll take both anyway, and use whichever suits the conditions we find.
Trouble is, with both strapped to my rucksack and tucked into the wand pockets it does rather look like like i'm about to blast off into space - as a couple of charming companions have been happy to point out - a number of times :lol:
I'm using a 10ft 5 weight for normal conditions and step up to a 10ft 6 weight when the wind gets up.
As for leaders I think that sub surface or maxima in 4lbs takes some beating for pulling wets.
I have tried a lot of different fluorocarbons for this and didn't feel that they were any better than standard mono.
Interesting thread, I fished 3 lochs in Assynt over the weekend and really struggled with the wind, I will add that I am more used to river fishing where I find casting much easier, I have just started getting back into the hill lochs after a gap of several years so am a bit rusty (and bloody tired legs today!)
I was using a 10ft 6/7 rated rod, and started off with a WF6 before trying a DT7.
Would like to know what the experienced fishers advise, WF or DT?
On the positive side, the wind meant no midges.
I prefer WF for hill lochs, a lot of the time I am not casting far, but when I do want to cast a bit further I shoot the running line, helps keep me out of the heather