3 Season Sleeping Bags

[corsican dave]

sorry to disagree with you Sandy, but the vango venom is a down bag.

for what it's worth (since I generally avoid being drawn into discussions on gear), I would recommend the mountain equipment lightline SL as arguably the best all-round sleeping bag on the planet and one that will last you for a very long time. I will now sit back and wait for the anguished howls of those who believe you can get owt for nowt.....  :lol:

[corsican dave]

I have an old  Vango Venom 300 Sandy, down and  only 800 gram. Packs very small  OK in summer but it's not up to Scottish summers like this one.

one of the problems with sleeping bags is that you have to hold all that insulation in place with other fabrics to contain it and stop it moving around. there is a finite weight below which you just can't get, broadly speaking about 400g or thereabouts (someone will probably come up with a different figure, but you get the idea)

myself and my mountain marathon partner (Rich Talbot; now director of product for mountain equipment coincidentally, although I have no connections with the company myself) went through this exercise a few years ago when we'd become weight obsessed. we found that once you got below the magic 500g mark you pretty much ended up with bugger-all insulation. you were effectively carrying around a couple of sheets of fabric stitched together. one mountain marathon where we had smugly got our sleeping bags down to something ridiculous (about 350g), we paid the penalty for low weight and small pack size with an almost completely sleep-less night, brewing up to keep warm.

the next year we used proper three/four season down bags and carried more food! we were much higher placed too.....

price-wise, the only way to get light weight and small pack size that will still keep you warm is to throw money at the problem and invest in down. if you want to keep the price down and still get the performance you require, you will have to accept the weight and bulk penalty of synthetic insulation. plus they don't last as long as down.

before anyone has a heart attack on seeing the prices of quality down bags (cheap down is not the answer, trust me...), let me say that I sympathise with you completely; the prices are incredibly high. I own a north face down bag that is 30 years old and still serviceable and have a mountain equipment snowline that I bought 15 years ago. i'm bloody glad I bought it then as I couldn't afford to now!!  :lol: although i'd probably find a way if I needed one..... :

ps Jim's mountain hardwear bag in the for sale section is a very good buy

[Fishtales]

sorry to disagree with you Sandy, but the vango venom is a down bag.

I was meaning the bags I put up Dave.

Insulation Type:   Synthetic

[Wildfisher]

Down certainly lasts. I still have my old Black's Polar - 4 season down bag (35 years old)  It kept me warm camping on snow in the Cairngorms  in February. It's a bit heavyweight  for summer though and does not have a zip, so there is no way to ventilate it. It is also quite bulky and weighs 2.25KG

[Wildfisher]

one of the problems with sleeping bags is that you have to hold all that insulation in place with other fabrics to contain it and stop it moving around. there is a finite weight below which you just can't get, broadly speaking about 400g or thereabouts (someone will probably come up with a different figure, but you get the idea)

That makes absolute sense to me and (not just with the benefit of hindsight)  is what I thought the problem might be. when you see it , it is obvious there has to be a critical bulk. My Vango 300 is fine when it's warm.

[bibio1]

Asking a really daft question.

The price of down bags is astronomical and I question their value unless.you are doing serious  expeditions during the winter. What is the difference between a down bag you can get from say Korea for around £70 that is around 2kgand a bag in this country of around £300. It seems these prices can't be justified.

Cheers

Paul

[Inchlaggan]

I also have a pair (they zip together, if required) of 37 year old, down filled, Mountain Equipment "Ice Dragons" that have served me well.
I think they cost me £60 each all those years ago.
They were used in an ice hole on Creag Meagaidh (near the top of Easy Gully) many years ago, warm as toast.
Bulky and heavy certainly, but they do the job.

[Wildfisher]

What is the difference between a down bag you can get from say Korea for around £70 that is around 2kgand a bag in this country of around £300.

It's the E.U. Pâté Foie Gras Directive. It keeps the cost of all goose products artificially high to protect the incomes of French farmers.  :lol:

[Bobfly]

£300 for a good down bag is not required .... although you are going to get a great bag for that budget.
For the two bags I suggested on p1 of the topic I paid £179 each and I would happily use the Terra Nova or the Montane one in true frozen conditions which have not happened even in this summer! A foam mat is the key (or Thermarest or whatever).

[Noddy]

Have no experience with good quality sleeping bags, I fail to understand the logic of the biased fill.  As I understand it they under fill the back as it will get  compressed.  How many people sleep all night on their back?  If someone feels cold will they not tend to adopt the foetal position? 

Jim