WTF?

[Wildfisher]

I just had a look at the Orvis website, first time for years. Their Helios rods START at £929   :shock:

Seriously, how on earth can a plastic tube with a bit or cork and some bent wire cost so much? I can understand hand made split cane rods being that pricey but a carbon and resin tube wrapped on a mandrel? No wonder their shops are closing down.

https://www.orvis.co.uk/helios-3d-fly-rods

[Bobfly]

Plenty rods now at £900+ and reels £500+. Insofar as I am aware, there has been no really significant technical improvement. It does seem that fools and their money are indeed easily parted.

[caorach]

In one sense I really don't get this Fred.

A few years back we had the chief materials expert from Sage on Lewis and he came and gave a little talk to us. It was really interesting and there is no question that he was looking at really advanced and cutting edge materials mostly sourced from the aircraft industry. He was explaining that where Sage are based also happens to be a centre for aircraft manufacture and that he has a good working relationship with the materials people in the aircraft industry - they'd often send him samples to test and they'd also benefit the feedback from Sage on these materials. So I have no question at all that Sage are doing "stuff" that costs a lot of money and that this has to get passed on to the customer.

However, as most will be aware, I tend to fish with leeda rods and I love them, the current ones cost just over £60 each. Now I do own two Sage rods, admittedly they are older rods these days, and while they might be "different" to my Leeda rods I honestly can't say that they are better as machines to use for fishing. I'm not much interested in gear and gadgets, I just like to go fishing.

The other side to this is that while I appreciate the work Sage put into their rods I don't need the value it adds but many people enjoy having a "nice" rod and having the latest tech is all part of the ownership experience and for many people that is worth paying for. It is also the case that the Sage tech must trickle down to the cheaper rods over time. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I understand why some companies have to charge a lot for their rods as there is some value in that money for the end user it just happens that I'm not one of the people who gets value from it. When I open a fishing catalogue or web site now there is almost nothing at all in terms of rods that I'd want to buy or fish. I know I'm old fashioned but I want an 11 foot 7 weight at reasonable money and those almost don't exist any more.

[Sean Freeman]

I'm admittedly a tackle tart but I will say Orvis gear is a good buy at the end of its product run as they usually offer them at half price. With a 25 year warranty it's a pretty sweet deal. I'm not under any illusion that my nice reels and rods will make me a better fisherman but they do make the task more enjoyable and after 20 odd years of fishing I feel a the likes of a nice Sage, Stickman or Scott in my hands is a better tool than a similar configuration Greys or Shakey etc. Whether that's the light weight or the thought put into the taper I don't know, I just know I enjoy them more. They're not multiple times better though as the prices might suggest.

Watercraft and casting skills are definitely more important, expensive gear is wasted on those that haven't got the fundamentals right. The waters I fish will punish you unless you're stealthy and your presentation is spot on.

There's also the fact I like supporting companies that support their staff, I saw a job advert recently for a machine operator at Mayfly Group who manufacture Abel and Ross and have just acquired Airflo. The job paid a fair wage ($20 odd an hour) with dental and medical care included. The people making the rods in the Far East won't be getting that care. Add into that a bulletproof lifetime warranty and the cost doesn't seem so bad. Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

[Wildfisher]

There is a certain pleasure in using quality products, be they cars, cameras, fishing gear whatever. I have  a few Sage rods and one Scott, which are great rods and a delight to cast. However what I can't say is how much of this is placebo and how much is real. I just know I love the rods. Same with my Voseller reels. Good solid kit.

All that said I still cannot understand how and why  a carbon rod should cost north of £900. When I spent £2000 on a lens I know exactly what I'm paying for and what I am getting. Cheap lenses and cameras don't cut it.

Incidentally  all my Rolls Royce fly rods were bought second hand. All pristine and not one of them cost more than £250   :lol:

[arawa]

I'm with Sean on this, and I have spent stupid amounts of money on rods over the years but strangely I have a lower limit on reels. I have handled Abels and the like and while I respect the craftmanship they just don't talk to me as an original Helios 3-weight did in the Orvis shop; no way was I leaving without it. The same applies to Sage Click reels to such an extent I have 8 of them in different sizes :?
Perhaps perversely, my cheapest rod - a Hardy Demon Smuggler - is by far my most used rod and my by far most expensive rod is my least used.
Fishing tackle is an art not a science!

PS. Just to embarrass myself further, I recently sorted through my 29 #3/4/5 floating lines from SA, Rio, Cortland, Orvis, Wulff, Teeny etc. Trying them with my various rods there was a clear winner that suited me best both for distance and presentation - and it was the most expensive!
Still,  no pockets in shrouds as they say!

PPS. Don't try and have this discussion on another FF forum. There you are slaughtered for suggesting there is any other option than spending less than £20 on a reel from Maxcatch. The limit for a fly line is about £5. But really, it's whatever makes you happy

[Hill loch gold]

Most of the high end rods nowadays seem to be £700 plus...or at least the flagship rods of each company do. Don't think i would pay that to be honest.
If i was buying anything second hand it would have to be in mint condition, as i like to look after all my stuff and any obvious imperfections would just bug me.
I bought a new loop and helios over the winter, deals i got with a good bit off and just ordered a stickman a week ago too. The stickman was the dearest, being made to order you have to pay full whack on them, but it was still a good bit cheaper than some of the other rods i was looking at from the US, time you took postage and import tax into consideration. Think that will do me with rods for a good while now  :lol:

[Laxdale]

There was an old bloke who used to come over skate fishing with us. He was one of the original distance casters and was a Century consultant. He also had big Danny over with him (world record caster), also a Century man.
In summary, Century also had close links to the aero/military carbon technology (so does Hardy).
But Century beach casters, although using a lot more of the same cutting edge carbon and resin technology, cost a fraction per foot of rod than fly rods do.
Further summary....you are all "being had" and getting fleeced so "high end" tackle manufacturers can lead a good life.
There is a reason a lot of salmon anglers head across the N Sea to Scandinavia for their rods. For the most part, you get better rods than from the USA and at a lot less cost. Maybe trout anglers should have a look at what is on offer there.
Reel wise, I just got a couple of Danielssons. They cost a lot less than the popular brands, and will see me out.

I ghillied a few years ago for a bloke that set up the Leeda company. He was first in to China for rods/rod blanks. When he got bored and sold up and retired, he suddenly became very popular with all the bigger names like Sage, who wanted to use him as a middle man so they could get their tackle made in China (and fleece us all even more).

[Bobfly]

Fishing rods are an extremely simple round shape made from overlaid fibre sheet windings onto a tapered mandrel. There is nothing expensive or cutting edge about the fittings which are also extremely simple. The action of the rod is very simple indeed, it just flexes quite gently in a curve and the forces applied are not at all severe nor sudden compared to other sports goods.

Two other sports use very similar materials for their racquets, tennis and badminton. I have played a great deal of badminton over the years and at a reasonable standard, playing over many years in several county league teams and in national finals. A badminton racquet you might think is a simple thing but it is a hollow shaft with a one-piece joined on egg shaped head also hollow. The head is not round in cross-section but grooved to hold in the outer string, so quite a tricky cross-section and the carbon fibre wrap shaping for the highly stressed torques between handle and head are very considerable. Folks go oooh aaah if a tennis ball is hit at 120mph but badminton shots are at 150mph+. The head is drilled through to take the stringing and I have 72 through holes for the strings so here are 144 holes in the head frame and the stringing on my racquets is usually done at 24lbs tension setting on each string on 36 strings. The frames have been using titaniun fine strands and nano particle resins for many years and so-called thoosie poond fly rods are now starting to do the same. The strings are multifibre also with titanium micro strands and the whole show is tuned to what you want in weight balance head-light through neutral to head-heavy. All that is a bit relative as the entire strung racquet comes in at 86grammes. For a world class top of the range from the Japanese Yonex I would pay £150 .... one hundred and fifty ! I would never expect it to get "tired" and if it goes it will be because of a collision .... then .... bang ! In comparison to what is being asked for a fly rod it makes a fly rod at £XXXX a joke.

Turning to tennis, you will all have seen slow-mo videos of Rapha Nadal battering the living hell out of a quite heavy tennis ball. You would have seen the elastic distortion and the string bed repulsion and frame bending of that power transfer. He plays with a Babolat with a 68 grommet pattern and 136 holes in the frame. He hits that ball likes he does actually want to smash and destroy the ball and his opponent. Every year Babolat bring out a "new model" and the fans can check that out because they can see the new paint job for this new model when they tune in on the telly. His racquets are hammered for hours in matches and for hours and hours of unrelenting practice. The racquets he uses are mostly 8 years old ..... really
He prefers the earlier models and has stuck with the model from close to 10 years back beacuse he prefers it and every year Babolat clean down and respray his racquets in the "new model" colour scheme and lots of folk have to have one because they might be able to play like Rapha if they have one. The price for this piece of fabulous ball smashing carbon fibre power  technology that makes a fly rod look like a drinking straw ..... £200 buys you that racquet.

Conclusion, anglers are taken to the cleaners. That said I have gathered a few rods over the years, quite a few Scandinavian as Laxdale will be pleased to hear.

[Bobfly]

Worth noting in relation to these carbon fibre racquets that your price is for the frame strung to your spec of string (many types and prices!) and tension pattern longs and crosses. You are not buying the plain frame at those prices so it is akin to a rod also coming with a matching fly line of your preference.