For any of you who use the NZ dropper (or "duo" if you prefer).
If you use a uni-knot/Duncan loop to attach the tail nymph to the bend of your dry (or another heavier nymph, as I do) you can simply remove the tail nymph by grabbing the knot and sliding it back down the line.
Being a slip knot, the loop opens out and you can simply slide the loop over the point and put the tail fly along with its length of tippet in a poly bag, cast holder, stick it in your ear or whatever, ready to be looped on again next time you need it.
Alex
Quote from: Ardbeg on March 25, 2008, 12:40:08 AM
I know it's been asked before but do they come off when using barbless?
Ardbeg
I tend to flatten the barbs and just a wee bump is left. This seems enough to stop the line coiming off. This season however, I'll be using preformed barbless - just have to wait and see :shock:
Norm
QuoteGood idea Alex. Do you keep a few of different lengths and change them often?
I know it's been asked before but do they come off when using barbless?
1. Not yet, but that was one idea I had thought of.
2. I have lost the odd nymph when using a true barbless, but I tend to flatten the barbs now rather than buy barbless. When I lost nymphs, it was when fishing, not after I had hooked a fish.
Alex
Quote from: Ardbeg on March 25, 2008, 12:50:55 AM
Norm, a season of lost 2lb 8oz grayling I see before you. :think2 :lol:
Ardbeg
Oh Mighty Sage - I shall now chuck all "true" brabless flies and return to the flattend barb version :roll: :lol:
Seriously, as you know I lost a few fish at Drummond Loch and while chatting to my Rainbow Bashing, competition angler collegue about it, the first thing he asked was "barbless hooks"? I got a knowing smile when I confirmed I always fish barbless and then he suggested I should have hit the tentative takes harder :shock: I'm sure I notice no difference in my catch rates with barbless on the river but maybe its different on still waters? Bit off topic, sorry.
Norm
Norm
The barbless issue is probably relevant to the thread Norm.
The only time I worry about truly barbless hooks is when using a very heavily weighted nymph/lure, when maybe in the head shaking that goes on (the fish, I mean :)) the extra weight in the fly could cause it to shake out. With dries, wets, light nymphs I don't lose any sleep over the issue. In NZ this year I fished debarbed exclusively and lost very few fish due to the hook hold failing (and remember these were extended fights in many cases due to the size of the fish).
In stillwaters, I think little is different. the fish will be moving all the time, so a perfectly slack line won't happen due to the water resistance of the line. My humble opinion.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on March 25, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
(and remember these were extended fights in many cases due to the size of the fish).
:roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol:
Steve (I couldn't find the green with jealousy smiley)
QuoteSteve (I couldn't find the green with jealousy smiley)
Sorry Steve, I wasn't rubbing it in, honest. :)
I really did mean that the fight is not when you will lose a fish due to the dropper slipping off.
Alex
Hi Alex,
It purely was envy! I think it was that it was extended fightS plural that did it. :D
I haven't tried NZ style yet but it is something I'm going to give a shot on the rivers this year.
I would have thought that if you were playing a fish on the dropper, then there would be more friction in the knot attached to the top fly, and therefore be less chance of losing the fish through the dropper slipping off.
Well it that sounds about right in theory to me. :?
Would you ever fish this way in any other situation other than on a river?
Steve
QuoteWould you ever fish this way in any other situation other than on a river?
I did try try loch fishing with traditional wets like this, but I kept thinking that a fish following the bob fly would bump into the trailing portion of the leader and fail to get hooked. I don't know if this would really happen that much in practice.
It certainly doesn't present a big problem on the river, although admittedly sometimes you "floss" a fish (he takes the dry and you fail to hook him, pulling the nymph into his mouth or the outside of his jaw, flossing his teeth for him in the process :D).
Alex
Quote from: haresear on March 25, 2008, 02:05:27 PMI kept thinking that a fish following the bob fly would bump into the trailing portion of the leader and fail to get hooked. I don't know if this would really happen that much in practice.
Thats exactly what I thought too, but I've never tried it so don't know.
I've seen someone incorporate a seemless ring onto the arse of their fly as an attachment point for a NZ dropper rig. They looped a short piece of nylon through the ring and bound the nylon to the shank of the hook with tying thread. A coat of superglue and then you tie the fly as normal.
One of the many things I've not gotten around to trying/tying yet. It sounds like a bit too much faff, even for me! :D
I'll have a go with a big stimulator or a foam leggy something or other tonight and pop it up tomorrow and see what the verdict is.
Steve
This was a quick example of the seamless ring incorporated into the fly.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
This would be a fairly good idea if you could be arsed tying these (it didn't really take much longer to tie, it's just that the rings are quite fiddly), but how many patterns do you need to tie?
I suppose you may just use a few general big bushy/high floating, searching patterns so you might not need that many?
DON'T use lureflash ring's though! They have very square edges (the packet I have does anyway). I was giving a pull on the end of the nylon and it snapped under very little pressure! Riverge are quite good, but I couldn't find my packet of them.
I used a bit of chewed 10lb mono to attach the ring to this fly
Steve
QuoteAnother method is to use a small (2.5mm) seamless ring and run both lengths of leader from this to the dry as well as the nymph.
You mean just like a standard dropper Allan, only using the ring instead of the water knot/blood knot? If so, I've never really seen any advantages in this myself other than easy replacement of the dropper.
QuoteThis was a quick example of the seamless ring incorporated into the fly.
Nicely tied Steven, but to be honest I don't see the advantage of the ring here either.
I'm sticking with the de-barbed hooks as it is less hassle and works just fine for me :D
Alex
Quote from: haresear on March 26, 2008, 02:00:06 PM
I don't see the advantage of the ring here either.
:lol:
Cheers Alex, but to be honest, me either! :D
I may tie up a few with the rings attached just for something different to try, but as I've never tried NZ style before I have nothing to compare it with. :dunno
As you say, the way you are doing it is less hassle and works just fine!
Steve
NOVICE ALERT !
I usually fish a dry on a dropper and the Nymph below that, what are the benefits of fishing NZ style having the tail fly tied directly to the hook of the dry?
Also would you use the same leader line for fly line to dry & dry to tail fly or differ them for some reason?
Kinda struggling at the moment to get my head round tapered leaders, droppers etc when river fishing.
I always buy pre-tied leaders with 2 droppers for the Lochs !
Ah I see, thanks Ardbeg, exactly the two flies I will be trying on the Almond soon so will give it a go.
How long a leader should I use and how much between Dry & Nymph or vary it to river depth etc?
Cheers
QuoteI usually fish a dry on a dropper and the Nymph below that, what are the benefits of fishing NZ style having the tail fly tied directly to the hook of the dry?
I will often fish a single dry, but if it gets refused, I'll try a nymph on a NZ dropper. It gives me a double chance and I can switch back to the single dry, or alter the length of the dropper by opening up the loop in the uni-knot.
As far as length of dropper is concerned, I tend to have no more than about 3 feet below a dry. If the fish is/are feeding deeper than that, I'll use a heavier nymph or more likely a pair of nymphs, one heavier than the other. The light one is attached NZ style, to the hook-bend and indication is by a piece of yarn, rather than a dry fly.
For leader length... I use as long as I can manage comfortably. Usually this will be around 15 feet or so, but if you are just starting out in nymphing and are fishing a wee treelined river, this is not what you want at all. Eight to twelve feet will do fine for most places.
Alex
That's great guys thanks, I will try the technique to search the water if I can't see any rising fish.
If there are risers I will delicatley cast my dry fly into the nearest tree :D
I now use the same setup as Allan.
Used to tie my dry onto a very short dropper, about 2-3", but it got time consuming tying a new dropper above that when I wanted to change the dry.
So just added a tippet ring to the tapered leader and add a dropper to that if I want to fish the duo, more flexible I feel.
Especially when you waste the amount of tippet I do due to atrocious technique ...
Still use the NZ style of onto the bend if I'm going to be fishing into a downstream breeze for most for the day, I find I get less tangles with that method, saving more tippet.
Tony