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Title: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on February 17, 2011, 09:40:09 PM
I'm no expert on entomology but thought it would be very useful for a layman such as myself to have a better knowledge of the subject without it being too scientific. With this in mind I decided to do a short post on Caddis flies and  have, as a result, learned so very much more about them in the process. I hope you will find this of interest.

Caddis / Sedge flies

Caddis Larvae, Emergers and Adults

(http://www.headwaters.co.uk/headwaters_%20images/Nov._09/caseless_caddis_nant_morw_n.jpg)

Caseless Caddis Larvae (  headwaters.co.uk )

(http://magickcanoe.com/aquatics/caddis-larva-large.jpg)

Cased Caddis Larvae (  magickcanoe.com )

(http://www.natureconservationimaging.com/images/Caddis-Fly.jpg)

Adult Caddis Fly (  natureconservationimaging.com )



Caddis flies are found near Loch's and rivers. They are known to form large swarms around trees and shrubs where they will mate and lay their eggs. The bright green eggs then fall or wash off into a stream or loch, the eggs sink to the bottom and after about a week and a half they hatch into caseless larvae. Here they swim and crawl around the bottom of the loch or river where they live. All this time, they grow and form cocoons of silk, small stones and debris until ready to emerge and hatch. When ready to hatch, they climb free of their cocoons, swim to the surface and emerge as the adult Caddis/Sedge flies upon which the cycle begins again.

Useful flies:- Peeping Caddis, Larger Buzzers and Nymphs, Elk Hair Caddis, Murrough, Brown Clinkhammer and appropriate Sedge patterns.

There is a good Wikipedia article on the subject here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caddisfly

Caddis flies are also known as Sedge or Rail flies.

This is in no way intended to be a definitive description of the life cycle of the Caddis and any further information or photographs on the insects or suggested fishing patterns is more than welcome.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 22, 2011, 11:15:14 PM
That is a great starting point for discussion.
However... you have picked a very difficult subject to start. I am no expert, there is probably only a handful of people in this country who are. Identification is very tricky for most of us.
Caddis flies are the order Trichoptera which is ancient greek meaning Hairy wings. Many are similar to the moths ( some of which are also aquatic) that have scaled wings.
There are over 200 species in this country from a few mm to nearly 30mm in size. The vast majority only have scientific names I am afraid.

Caddis are freshwater creatures that have aquatic larvae. Some do live in Brackish water though, but dont really concern anglers.

Some larvae dont have cases throughout their devlopment. These caseless caddis are important trout food and are mostly Rhyacophila or hydropsyches (there is no common name i am afraid, but many anglers call them hydropsyches or Rhyac's ).
Most caddis larvae though build cases of sand grains or small rocks, plant stems, dead leaf pieces, sponges etc. Each species has a distinct type of case and to an extent can be identified by these cases.

Caddis lay there eggs in various ways, some by dropping balls of eggs onto the surface, or dropping individual eggs. Others actually land on rocks and crawl down under the surface to lay there eggs under rocks. With these the typical caddis shape wing becomes a real advantage as it helps aerofoil the water and keeps the adult streamlined to the rock as it competes with the current.


This is a very common one, we call the Black silver horn's. This is Mystacides azurea or Myastacides nigra. The larvae has a case of plant debris with a few long pieces of stem. the adult males fly in swarms zig zagging a few feet over the surface, late afternoon to dusk. Stuart crofts calls them Black dancers because of the way they fly. they are 8-10mm long. The female drops into  the dance in a certain pattern and is grabbed by a male.. they fly off to mate. She then drops into the dance again, this time in a different pattern, she is ignored now and gets through the swarm to get to the water surface and lay her eggs.
I use a very dark F fly to imitate these.
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/whingeingpom/mystacidesazurea.jpg)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on February 22, 2011, 11:59:16 PM
Another that is of interest especially to the angler fishing highland streams and lochs is Philopotamus montanus or Speckled Sedge.

The Larvae
Larvae are filter-feeders, spinning nets to filter fine particles and diatoms from the water (Waringer & Graf 1997, Graf et al. 2002).

Habitat
They are typically found in the rapids of headwaters and in tributaries where water runs vertically down through piles of boulders (Edington & Hildrew 1995) since this species needs moderate to high current velocities.

Adults
Adults are on the wing from January to November (Waringer & Graf 1997).

[attachimg=1]

I suppose any brown dry fly of a #12 would do particularly one of the grousewing tyings or a deerhair sedge type.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 23, 2011, 12:14:44 AM
Thats another one of the handful of caseless caddis isnt it?
I have never seen it down her in the south, but cheating with my guide book The simple guide to caddis larvae by Ian Wallace. It says that it has a  yellowy cream or white body with an orange or reddy brown head. Similar in shape to the one in Blackdons illustration at the begining.
That should be an easy nymph pattern to make up. The body length is 8-11mm.

By the way when imitating the nymphs, i think it is a mistake to over do the curved body shape, as i believe that when the trout pick them off in the current they are usually swimming and the bodies fully extended. Certainly makes it easier to tie up.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on February 23, 2011, 08:57:20 AM
I'm not sure how important the nymph imitation would be in the loch unless fishing off any of the fast flowing burn mouths and they are being washed down. Probably more of interest to the small burn fisher in the flats and slow pockets below steep runs though. As you say it is one of the caseless caddis although I wouldn't think it is a swimming caddis. More like a spider letting out a length of silk like a lifeline and dropping down the flow until it finds somewhere suitable to build its silk net. It would only be free swimming as such if it gets washed away in a spate.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on February 23, 2011, 09:40:23 AM
Quote from: fishtales on February 23, 2011, 08:57:20 AM
I'm not sure how important the nymph imitation would be in the loch unless fishing off any of the fast flowing burn mouths and they are being washed down.

Don't you get the sub aquatic larvae around the loch edges where there's stony ground and overhanging trees etc, ?
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: muddler9 on February 23, 2011, 11:58:46 AM
 Judging by some of the sedge hatches I've seen, most lochs must have huge  numbers of larvae on the loch bed. I've certainly found plenty in early season spoonings. I wouldn't bother trying to imitate or fish them though, as they would need to be fished deep which results in getting snagged on the rocky waters I fish.
The pupal form as it rises to emerge is well worth imitating, though. The Invicta or Walker's long horn pupa will do the trick. As for the adults, the deerhair sedge with various colours of well picked out seal (orange, claret, green or black) are all I need.

Then there's Damsels. The Assynt lochs I fish are swarming with them, though I've rarely tried them.  Room for experiment, I think.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Billy on February 23, 2011, 09:18:28 PM
Does  anyone  know  where  i  can  get  or  has  a  design  for  the  nets  they  use  for  taking  samples  of  river  insect  life?  I  have  fancied  doing  this  for  while  and  sampling  before  i  start  to  fish.  Any  suggestions  for  literature  would  also  be  very  welcome.
Billy
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: deergravy on February 23, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
Quote from: muddler9 on February 23, 2011, 11:58:46 AM
 

Then there's Damsels. The Assynt lochs I fish are swarming with them, though I've rarely tried them.  Room for experiment, I think.


Camping in north Assynt a while back, I chapped a couple of brace of half-pounders.
They were stuffed with adult damsels!
Difficult to imitate, though, and I don't think the fish were being selective about them; otherwise I wouldn't have caught them..
Did get me thinking about it tho, it's always nice to catch fish with a direct imitation.

BTW, I'm not convinced fish are that keen on adult sedges. I honestly cannot recall a single occasion when they've been keyed in on the skittering insects, certainly not in the way they fix onto, say BWOs.
They hoover up the ascending pupae for sure, but I'm always left a bit nonplussed when I see published imitations with their tent-wings and antennae.
Is it just me??
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Clan Ford on February 23, 2011, 11:28:44 PM
Quote from: deergravy on February 23, 2011, 10:25:48 PM
BTW, I'm not convinced fish are that keen on adult sedges. I honestly cannot recall a single occasion when they've been keyed in on the skittering insects, certainly not in the way they fix onto, say BWOs.
They hoover up the ascending pupae for sure, but I'm always left a bit nonplussed when I see published imitations with their tent-wings and antennae.
Is it just me??

I'm with you ....

Norm
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 24, 2011, 12:30:42 AM
Quote from: Billy on February 23, 2011, 09:18:28 PM
Does  anyone  know  where  i  can  get  or  has  a  design  for  the  nets  they  use  for  taking  samples  of  river  insect  life?  I  have  fancied  doing  this  for  while  and  sampling  before  i  start  to  fish.  Any  suggestions  for  literature  would  also  be  very  welcome.
Billy

Billy for kick sampling we use a standard net, as do every one else who monitors. They are a bit pricy though:-
http://www.gbnets-uk.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_2&zenid=799581ea1a10d3bf6bdda71b55c923db

and probably too combersome for what you want.

When I go down the stream, as I also collect samples for monitoring schemes i carry two nets in my pockets.
The first is a roll out screen that you hold in the food lane and it filters everything coming down so you can see whats drifting and about to hatch.
Stuart Crofts, sells these through his Torrentis range:-
http://www.pennineflyfishingguides.co.uk/torrentis.htm

The net I use most is a fold away butterfly net which collapses down to about the size of 20 fags and fits in my pocket easily. When you pull it out it springs open and is great for catching insects on the wing.
http://www.nhbs.com/crushable_pocket_butterfly_net_tefno_160774.html

This will be replaced this year though for a slightly cheaper version, that has white netting. The black net can be a pain in the butt in the dusk trying to find micro caddis and transfer them to their doom in the collecting jars.

The best way by far of learning is to go on one of the entomology for anglers courses run by the FBA. There is one at Glasgow Uni on Loch lomond on April 9th. It is run by Stuart Crofts, who is far from a boring boffin. and as an ex international captain of the rivers fly fishing team, certainly looks from the anglers viewpoint. His enthusiam is infectious. The web site is here but you will have to press a few links to see the course details.
http://www.fba.org.uk/fba-training-courses.
Download the 2011 course details. I am driving up to the windermere course.There always more to learn.

Books; some one mentioned Goddard and Trout fly recognition is a great help. But I tend to need a few books to cross reference. My favorite is An Anglers Entomology by  Harris. Both books are easily found second hand for a few quid.

Thankfully the fish on our river dont ignore the caddis... unless the BWO's are around or some other small olive. But at last knockings a sedge pattern is almost a nightly requirement. Saying that I am quite sure there will be other waters where the Adults are mostly ignored.

hope that helps
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Malcolm on February 24, 2011, 01:59:17 AM
I have seen trout take dry sedges enthusiastically but not often.

There's a loch I know in Invernesshire. One of the two or three best lochs I've ever fished. It has a hatch of big orange-yellow buzzers that I've never seen before and when these are hatching the fish are always on. Some nights it's sedges and...nothing. The water can be covered in them but as far as dry fly action is concerned you'll wait a long time.

Oddly I think dry sedge imitations rise many more fish than the natural which makes me think that they often take it for something else.   
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Billy on February 24, 2011, 08:29:37 AM
Thanks for that. Great information and I think this topic is going to be a popular one.

I'll be doing a bit of surfing for this stuff at lunchtime today.

Billy
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 24, 2011, 11:27:36 AM
Quote from: Malcolm on February 24, 2011, 01:59:17 AM


Oddly I think dry sedge imitations rise many more fish than the natural which makes me think that they often take it for something else.   

I have wondered about that too. I wonder if its another trigger: the movement which wakes the trout up to them.
The naturals do tend to make a terrific fuss about leaving the surface sometimes, and bushy pattern skittered across the surface ( as opposed to dragged) does get some terrific chases and lunged takes, when a drifted sedge pattern is casually looked at and then ignored.

Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on February 24, 2011, 08:44:42 PM
Quote from: Exerod on February 24, 2011, 06:48:06 PM
Down here inthe Westcountry one of the first really good hatches of the year is the grannom sedge in April. The trout certainly hit the adult flies hard as do the early sea trout if they have turned up.
Andy

What's the difference between Grannom and other Sedges ?
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 24, 2011, 09:15:44 PM
The grannom is medium size ( about 10mm), and one of the earliest appearing caddis of the season. It appears in huge hatchs and falls on some waters and becomes a notable season much like mayflies and the BWO's.

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/whingeingpom/grannom3-femaleemail.jpg)
They are widespread from South england to Perthshire in the north. The first recorded sighting last year was April 12th and the last in May 25th.
They are confined to running water only, The larvae live attached  to weeds or rocks. filtering food that passes them in the current. the case is attached to the object at the open front end and is constucted of green cut leafs making a long angular construction that is square in cross section

It is very strongly marked The female is known as the green tail as she carries her mass of eggs in a sort of purse on the end of her abdomen before laying them in the water surface.
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/whingeingpom/Grannommaleemail.jpg)

Photos of female grannom by Stuart Crofts
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Malcolm on February 24, 2011, 09:39:44 PM
The grannom maybe the only insect that has closed a road in Britain. The river Avon flows through Salisbury and one year the hatch was so heavy clogging up both windscreen and the air such that the road over the Avon had to be closed. I was living in Wiltshire  at the time and I remember it made the headlines of the local newspaper. It would be in the mid 80s. I don't know of this ever happening elsewhere.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 24, 2011, 09:57:18 PM
Quote from: Ardbeg on February 24, 2011, 09:35:14 PM
Further north than Perthshire WP.  Fred's local,the River Don, gets them too.

Cheers

Ardbeg

And i bet they are probably a wee bit later in the year up there.
Trouble is I go off the recorded data sent to the recording schemes.
It would be really handy for the the recorders to have some samples sent through from the northern areas to update the extent of the range.
If you do manage to catch one, just put it in a small sample jar ,( urine sample jar from the chemist will do)with a bit of vodka or gin to preserve it, a date of capture and a map reference or post code. Then send it down to Stuart Crofts or Ian Wallace, or even to me and i will make sure it gets to them.
That applies to any caddis not just the grannom by the way.

I wonder if the southern chalkstreams still get the big hatches like that Malcolm? The 80's sounds like yesterday, but its 30 years back.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Part-time on February 24, 2011, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on February 24, 2011, 01:59:17 AM
Oddly I think dry sedge imitations rise many more fish than the natural which makes me think that they often take it for something else.   

I wonder if some of the sedge patterns may be taken for terrestrials; to me a lot of the flies using deer hair remind me of clegs - could be the way I tie them though :)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: deergravy on February 24, 2011, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: Malcolm on February 24, 2011, 01:59:17 AM
Oddly I think dry sedge imitations rise many more fish than the natural which makes me think that they often take it for something else.   

Very true.
Deer hair sedges and sedgehog-type patterns are, by some distance, the flies I use most often on northern lochs. I've never thought of them as sedge imitators at all, even when figure-of-eighted across the surface in a rather sedge-like fashion.

Strange how trout will take a seemingly good imitation of a natural fly they usually ignore!
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 25, 2011, 12:24:25 AM
Quote from: deergravy on February 24, 2011, 10:37:51 PM
Very true.
Deer hair sedges and sedgehog-type patterns are, by some distance, the flies I use most often on northern lochs. I've never thought of them as sedge imitators at all, even when figure-of-eighted across the surface in a rather sedge-like fashion.

Strange how trout will take a seemingly good imitation of a natural fly they usually ignore!

The answer maybe in just trigger points rather than full on imitations. I tend to tie as simple as possible. So losing flies to the Hawthorns along our overgrown banks isn't quite so painful. Tails and wings seem superfluous, whereas size, shape, footprint and good dragfree drift is what I concentrate on.

It would be intersesting to see this season how many of you guys fishing the lochs and catching on the dry 'sedge' patterns, spoon out a few a see if they are actually ignoring the naturals.
I am happy to go along with the taste like 'shite' theory. Frank sawyer certainly felt that was the case with some of our favoured offerings. mayfly's for instance (and i wouldn't argue with him!).
But G+H sedges and sedgehogs are undeniably great fish catchers on running and still waters. why?
I think a few of the posters have had some interesting conclusionsand may have come close with the theories that despite huge numbers that we see the caddis from above the surface, it is really more of an opportunist snack on the water for the trout.
There are few times that we see trout locked onto them, in the way we see BWO's and Caenis exclusively chosen. But a few of the sedges do seem to get this response, micro caddis (hydroptila) is one that springs to mind on our particular water, hydropsyches ( grey flags) are another. I am sure that Rhyacs would be too but as they're return to the water is usually at the end of dusk and into the wee small hours I tend to be not at the river when they could be an offering.

One thing that I expect we will see from these threads is that no two waters are really the same and what seems a 'given' for us in Northhants is complete bollocks for some one in the Great Glen or even Ayrshire. We have to come to each water with a different assumption
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on February 26, 2011, 06:29:27 PM
This thread reminded me of this.

http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9025.msg138453#msg138453

The air, motorway and front of the car was covered in them.

The Large Red Sedge is waited on with anticipation up at Hillend every year. The fly men with their imitations and the bait fishers with a live sedge off a bubble float take a lot of big fish off the surface on many a June night :)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 26, 2011, 07:33:07 PM
Quote from: wee bri on February 26, 2011, 05:46:43 PM
Steve, Col,
In my reccollection of Brian Harris' article he was giving an explanation of his general lack of success during grousewing hatches. Particularly as they seem to often occur in those evenings when the wind falls away to a flat calm.
I did say that in desperation he ate a few of them himself and said they tasted crap.
I no way could this ever equate to a trouts sense of taste though surely.
His remarks were tongue in cheek.
Apologies for any confusion.

wee bri.........

I am reluctant to keep going with taste issue as I don't think in this its the case of why we seem to see caddis in large numbers above or near the water, but in some cases few appear to be taken taken on the surface.
Nor is it the point i was making,I was just trying not dismiss another posters ideas out of hand.
The taste issue and do trout taste or care, is a distraction from this thread and deserves it's own discussion,.

But to qualify why i don't totally dismiss it totally, is due to the writings of Frank Sawyer, who seems to be as great an observer of the natural worlds to do with fisheries as we have seen write or broadcast on the subject.
He looked at why certain flies that dominated some hatches were widely ignored, for smaller morsels. From memory these tended to be the silt living Nymphs such as Mayflies. When the river was in poor condition and the silt's sour, huge mayfly hatches could be pretty much ignored. Whereas when the river had been cleaned up and the PH raised this abstinence seemed to reduce.

I do think with sedges it is to do with the habits and behaviour of the caddis themselves , the Trouts need to be efficient in taking in food..... Preferring consistency of the food lanes.
And also the periods of activity for many of the  caddis species falling outside the times we are usually at the water ( we know this from setting surface traps over night and seeing whats hatched or fallen). So we may not actually be seeing the peak activity.
Certainly with micro caddis which get great response on our stream the main activity seems to be way past the time you can still see to tie knots on, and as the naturals are about the size of a size 20 hook. Beyond my abilities to deal with i am afraid.

Exerod:
I sorry I should have written 'Plant material' rather than weeds, that was careless of me.

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/whingeingpom/mrsbutton.jpg)
Female Welshmans button Sericostoma personatum Another wide spread and very common caddis that seem to be with us throughout much of the season.
Personatum is Latin for a mask of a face held on a stick. Like used at masquerade balls.
This caddis is identified in the field by the huge Palp/ mouthpart, covering the face and looking like it is holding one of these personatum masks.
In the photo she has dropped it down so it sticking out front from the face. Usually though it his held up, making the head appear over large.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: garryh on February 27, 2011, 11:17:01 AM
just remembered about these nets.would they do for taking samples.certainly a lot cheaper .
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-x-6-Fish-Net-Pond-Aquarium-2ft-Ali-Handle-Fine-Mesh-/290383761351?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item439c388fc7

Garry
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Clan Ford on February 27, 2011, 02:17:30 PM
A damsel fly nymph - just caught it in my fish tank!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on February 27, 2011, 10:46:31 PM
Sounds like a sound theory.
I have mentioned the fluttered take off before, which involves a chase. We get a number of trout each year making what look like desperate leaps to dislodge a Silverhorn from its flight above the surface, these seem to be smaller trout... but maybe that's just my memory and possibly says more about the size of our trout.  Whether they are sucessfull or not I have never really been able to tell but a few times when the silver horns are about i have had trout jump at my fly just as its about to land. ( I am willing to concede that this is such a rare occurence in the amount of casts that I do a season, that it just could be coincidence that a trout is jumping just near where i am casting... theyr'e fast but surely not that fast!)


The micro caddis make fast runs just below the surface at dusk and into the dark. You can see these as V wakes on the surface with no apparent cause. But the trout learn to target them and get the knack of hitting the trajectory... no mean feat. And lets face it a micro caddis cant pack much protein in return.
Caddis with a long flight period like the Cinnamon's, that need to take on water to sustain the many days or weeks, do those crazy dives where they seem to smash the surface like ovipositing, but are up and gone again in an instant must drive the hungry trout nuts.
I see all sizes of Ephem drifting down as hatching nymphs or drying the wings ready for take off from small dark olives up to Mayflies that seem to drift for 20 or 30 yds. But sedges i never really get to see doing this.
You could well be right, unless they are dead in the food lane,it seems they are rarely a casual feed.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on February 27, 2011, 11:44:39 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of a pre-emerging, ascending Caddis/Sedge ?
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: whinging pom on March 01, 2011, 01:17:52 AM
I have been looking for you but they seem as rare as hens teeth. Staurt Crofts is on holiday in Eygpt at present if he ever gets back i will ask him if he has any images that i can post up.


Meanwhile heres Two WelshmansButtons making babies..... look at the enlarged head on the right as the give away.
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae185/whingeingpom/brownsilverhornmating.jpg)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Billy on March 02, 2011, 01:18:47 PM
I had a copy of trout Fly Recognition delivered today.
In pretty good nick with postage and packing it was only a tenner.

Just need to get my kick sample net sorted now.

Billy
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on March 12, 2011, 11:03:06 AM
Looking through some files I came across these and thought they might be of interest.

Caddis (http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/temp/FBA%20Feb%202007%20course%20supplementary%20larval%20identification%20notes.pdf)


Caddis (http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/temp/guide-to-caddis%20IW.pdf)


Mayflies (http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/temp/guide-to-mayflies.pdf)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Billy on May 21, 2011, 06:31:34 PM
This wee guy interupted my fishing on the Don at Kemnay last week.

40mm from its nose to the tip of the wings.



Billy
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on May 21, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
That's a bit of a bruiser Billy, nice photo, was that with the Nikkon DSLR ?

Does anyone know if there are different sub-species of Stoneflies the same as Sedges ?
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: haresear on May 22, 2011, 12:45:14 AM
QuoteDoes anyone know if there are different sub-species of Stoneflies the same as Sedges ?

Loads of them Donald. I only know the latin name of the big fella, Perla Maxima ( think), but there are the yellow sallies and loads of other small stoneflies and needleflies (the Perlidae).

I have found an imitation of a yellowish olive stoneflly on hill lochs around the end of May to be very good medicine on sunny days.

Alex
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on May 22, 2011, 10:07:27 AM
Here is a guide to some of the Stoneflies Donald.

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?guide=Plecoptera_families
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Billy on May 22, 2011, 07:37:12 PM
Don,

It was indeed the Nikon DSLR (D60).

I have set the picture quality to fine which really helps when zooming in.


I,m just glad they dont bite.........or do they? :(

Billy
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Jehu on March 09, 2012, 12:31:34 AM
I've never heard of it being done here but when I was in Italy they used live caddis fly larvae. They just broke the 'shell' off and fed it thru the hook. Might do well on a 14 or 16 hook on a light fly rod on the rivers...
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Traditionalist on March 09, 2012, 01:44:55 AM
Quote from: Jehu on March 09, 2012, 12:31:34 AM
I've never heard of it being done here but when I was in Italy they used live caddis fly larvae. They just broke the 'shell' off and fed it thru the hook. Might do well on a 14 or 16 hook on a light fly rod on the rivers...

It has been done in the UK and elsewhere for centuries.

TL
MC
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Black-Don on March 09, 2012, 02:20:28 AM
Quote from: Jehu on March 09, 2012, 12:31:34 AM
I've never heard of it being done here but when I was in Italy they used live caddis fly larvae. They just broke the 'shell' off and fed it thru the hook. Might do well on a 14 or 16 hook on a light fly rod on the rivers...

I think it's called " fishing the gadger ".

Never used the method but some folk on here were past masters I believe  :8)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: haresear on March 09, 2012, 08:39:04 AM
QuoteI think it's called " fishing the gadger ".

Not quite :) Thje gadger is the stonefly nymph or indeed the adult stonefly, which were sometimes fished on a two hook rig.

What we are talking about here is the caddis (sedge) larva which we used to know as stickbait. It was commonly used here in Lanarkshire to catch trout, grayling, perch and roach .

Alex
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs Shetland
Post by: Fishtales on October 10, 2013, 12:38:13 AM
I came acfoss this site and thought it would be helpful to anyone going to Shetland for the fishing.

http://www.nature-shetland.co.uk/entomology/ (http://www.nature-shetland.co.uk/entomology/)

It gives a pretty extensive list of insects and where they have been recorded.
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on April 06, 2014, 11:32:05 AM
I came across this buried in my bookmarks and thought it might be of interest.

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?guide=Plecoptera_families (http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?guide=Plecoptera_families)
Title: Re: Entomology: fly life in rivers and lochs
Post by: Fishtales on May 25, 2014, 02:29:54 PM
Crap camera so not great pictures. A few of the flies around last week in Assynt.

Black Buzzer

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/010-black-buzzer.jpg)

Sepia Dun Male (Leptophlebia Marginata)

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/013-sepia-dun.jpg)

Goera Pilosa Medium Sedge

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/016-goera-pilosa-medium-sedge.jpg)

Alder Fly Sialis Lutaria

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/025-alder-fly.jpg)

Common Heath Moth Ematurga Atomaria

There is a nymph underneath it that I hadn't noticed.

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/027-common-heath-ematurga-atomaria.jpg)

Cased Caddis Larva

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/028-cased-caddis.jpg)

Sepia Nymph (Leptophlebia Marginata)

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/030-sepia-nymph.jpg)

Sepia Spinner Male (Leptophlebia Marginata)

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/036-sepia-male-spinner.jpg)

Large Stonefly Female

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/038-stone-fly-female.jpg)

Pond Olive Spinner Cloeon Dipterum

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/040-pond-olive.jpg)

Small Buzzers Mating

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/041-small-buzzers.jpg)

Large Black And Small Olive Buzzer

(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/inchnadamph/201405-inchnadamph/042-black-olive-buzzers.jpg)