A few years back I found myself in the market for a rod for the first time in a long time.
Only once I started trying different rods did I realise that I knew absolutely nothing about them- I don't speak Rod-speak and any conversation about rods quickly confused me and I found it impossible to articulate to others exactly what I was after.
I tried Sage, Hardy, Orvis and Echo amongst others and whilst all were much lighter than what I'd been used to and some very finely put together- none felt right. To me anyway- they all felt a bit "samey" a bit like racecars tuned up for competition- only apparently in their element when punching out the full length of the line plus about two foot of backing.
I joined a couple of rodbuilding forums and tried the patience of a few rodbuilders with my broken descriptive language. Every time one of the blanks above was recommended I would attempt to explain what I hadn't like about that particular rod.
I'm sure I had stretched their patience almost to the limit when one rodbuilder posted "It sounds to me like this guy is looking for a fishing rod rather than a casting stick". This statement seemed to strike a cord with the other rodbuilders and suddenly the recommendations changed from the manufacturers above. One recommendation which kept coming up was GATTI.
Worried about buying from the USA and paying customs etc, I found someone in Europe who supplied GATTI blanks and purchased one. The finished rod was lighter than any production rod I'd tried and the action was perfect. I feel the rod loading from the very tip right to the very end of the reel seat (where on the American style rods, I could only feel the tip working) and unless I'm double hauling, my relaxed casting stroke will create enormous loops with it (again I felt the American rods all created very tight loops and any aerialised line had to shoot straight out behind me on the back cast).
Now unless I am mistaken, all rods are marketed as fishing rods rather than casting sticks so, finally to my question for the casting experts: I find myself shopping for a rod again, how do I describe in Rod-speak what I am actually after in a rod?
Not being a casting 'expert' but like you know what I want in a rod I think I like what they call a mid-flex rod. This as far as I can gather means the rod flexes mid-way down the blank but you still feel that power in the handle. Full-flex rods bend all the way from the handle, for me that means a floppy rod, maybe it isn't really but I don't like floppy rods. Tip-flex seems to mean that only the tip flexes but to me that appears to mean a stiff rod, a bit like casting a poker, again I don't like this style of rod.
Any rods I have bought over the years I have never tried first except by the waggle method, so frowned upon by many, but it works for me :) I know that the rod is right for me just by the feel, weight isn't a something I think about, just the waggle. The one rod I bought from ebay was a 4-piece 9 ft #7 which is my spare rod and has only been used a couple of times but casts just the same as my Daiwa 3-piece 10 ft #7. As I say, going by the diagrams I have seen on flex action these seem to be mid-flex so I usually look for these when viewing rods.
Funnily enough Sandy, The rod I used for the longest was the Diawa Wilderness and hence that's what feels "right" to me. It weighs a tonne comparitively to the GATTI but none-the-less feels the same in terms of action.
So you reckon I'm after mid-flex?
In my opinion yes. But that is only based on what I use and how it looks against the diagrams I have seen on rod actions. Whether it is right or not I can't really say. I just know the rods I use fit the mid-flex view.
If you look at these you will see what I mean about actions.
http://www.orvis.co.uk/intro.aspx?subject=24 (http://www.orvis.co.uk/intro.aspx?subject=24)
http://btrussell-fishingthroughlife.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/fast-medium-slow-action-fly-rods-which.html (http://btrussell-fishingthroughlife.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/fast-medium-slow-action-fly-rods-which.html)
http://genwair.com/information_on_rods_for_flyfishing.htm (http://genwair.com/information_on_rods_for_flyfishing.htm)
http://www.davidnorwich.com/PerformanceFactor..htm (http://www.davidnorwich.com/PerformanceFactor..htm)
It is also called medium action rather than mid-flex :roll:
Thanks Sandy, I found those (partcularly the last one) very helpful.
It seems (whilst they may be indirectly linked) I have been paying to much attention to the "recovery rate". I assumed I didn't like "fast" rods until a casting instructor casted my GATTI and informed me that it was still a fast rod. This only confused me more but those links seem to explain it.
BP,
I am fairly sure I like the same types of rod as you - and so do a lot of other fly fishers on this forum. As a matter of fact my preferred river rod is a Gatti FRD.
You may or may not know but I cast a lot of rods and can cast them all but the ones I really like are as a rule from the 90s. Since that time rod actions have all got faster. A middle to tip rod from the 90s would likely be called a middle action rod now. Even a rod like the Sage XP which was marketed 10 years ago as a fast action rod is now regarded and middle to tip.
I regard rods as having three different components that make up a rod action.
1. Rod blank weight (I prefer a heavier blank). Older materials like Glass and old carbon are quite heavy while modern carbons are much lighter.
2. Recovery rate. This is related to rod blank weight but they are not totally dependant. This is dependant on something called modulus. If you take two identical blanks (wall thickness, taper etc) then a higher modulus carbon will recover more quickly than a lower modulus carbon.
The above two are subcomponents of the stiffness or a rod. A stiffer rod will recover to the straight line position more quickly than a softer rod.
3. Rod action
This also can have a great influence on apparent stiffness of a rod but is different in that it describes how a rod bends independant of material. At one extreme we have a fast action rod where nearly all the bending action is in the tip. At the other extreme we have a slow action rod where the action will bend be throughout the whole rod right down to the butt.
you can group action into 5 groups
1. Tip (AKA fast action)
2. Butt action(AKA as slow action, full action and Spey Action).
3 Middle action
4. Middle to Tip
5. Middle to butt
Most rods are now described as Middle to tip.
For myself i prefer a heavier rod with a swinging rather than snappy action. I prefer a slightly heavier blank too - which also aids robustness. I know there are many others on this forum that like those actions too. Unfortunately they stopped making rods like that in the 90s for the most part. There is one exception that I know of and I recommended this on the forum some time ago and I know Buanain got one and is delighted with it.
These rods are made on traditional Harrison blanks and the rod builder I recommended is Chas Burns. You won't believe the quality for the price- and you can specify your own components like handle shapes, rings, thread colour - all for under £200.
he will also make up Lohric blanks by Harrison - more expensive, faster and lighter but I prefer the traditional for fishing. http://www.burnsbuiltrods.co.uk/spec.html (http://www.burnsbuiltrods.co.uk/spec.html)
Malcolm,
Thanks for the detailed responce. Until I built the Gatti I would also have agreed about preferring the heavier weight blank. I've now got so used to the Gatti which really is feather weight that on the odd occassion when I use one of my Diawa's I find my arm aching after a few hours. In actual fact that is why I'm on the hunt for another rod (for those occassions when I use the Diawa). The Gatti is a 9ft 4/5 weight which at times I feel is about a foot too short. Gatti don't make the same blank over 9 foot and the next series of blanks have various actions. Despite the fact that Sandro Gatti's English is very good, I feel if I emailed him my requirements without learning a wee bit of the lingo first, he may just find it a bridge too far :D
Quote from: Alan on February 16, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
, i reckon you might like a parabolic action in a very light rod,
:dunno :D
Quote from: Alan on February 16, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
, Winston T, i got one you can try, Malcolm can offer a second opinion on this he has tried it.
That's very good of you- hopefully our paths will cross this season and I can take you up on that offer.
Malcolm speaks Rod speak that I understand, and I'm not technical at all in this regard, served me well when I had needed a replacement for my trusty Grey's that bust on me, for the last time, just last year. I'll claim my £20 middle section from Grey's to have a second standby rod but thats it retired. I was back on my old whisker for quite a bit of the season, on which I caught my best trout of the year, but I opted for a replacement for the grey's in the end as the whisker can't take the strain in a burn, so after much debate with myself and a clue or six gleaned from Malcolm's posts on this subject it was a made to order rod from Chas down the road in York, just wish I'd had something that feels this natural years ago.
Quote from: Alan on February 16, 2013, 10:27:01 PM
Gatti is a whole different kettle of fish, bit like older Loop rods, the main power you get back comes from the middle of the rod, immense power from the thickest part of the carbon, they might actually be parabolic,
Alan,
How does that translate to Sandy's original assumption that it is Mid Flex rods that I like?
Love it!
Alan,
A parabolic action is pretty unique in that the curve of a rod is wholly regular and doesn't bend more towards the tip. It does this by having a very soft butt section and a stiff mid section so that you get a feeling that you get more back than you put in - a bit of an illusion but the softer butt kicks over the stiffer middle section. As a consequence the parabolic rod requires a much longer stroke than conventional tapers. I'm almost sure it was a charles Ritz invention - he certainly popularised it. I'll have a look at his book later.
Quote from: Alan on February 16, 2013, 11:44:24 PM
i think you already have the answer :lol:
Sorry Alan,
What I meant to say was: In your opinion, is the reason I like the Gatti because of Sandy's original assumption that it is because I like mid-flex action rods or something else?
In other words- If Sandro Gatti was to pop-his-cloggs tomorrow and I find my self looking at other brands, am I simply looking for other mid-flex rods and hence they will feel right?
This is my rod bent, not fully granted, which after looking at various diagrams leads me to believe it is a mid-flex rod as it is bending well into the middle section.
(http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/gallery/ederline/003-ederline-me.jpg)
If that is the way the Gatti bends then it is a mid-flex. For the others the bend is only in the tip section with very little bend in the rest of the rod or else the whole rod is bent right down to the but section.
Is that a fair assessment?
And this loading / action would be described as what...??? Not mine, my fishing buddy.
[attachimg=1]
To me it is mid-flex, the rod is still reasonably straight at the but section before the rod bends at the mid section and round into the tip. I have no idea what my rod looks like when casting though so I can't really compare :)
I'd say my rod bends like that picture alright Sandy.