Is It Legal?

[Wildfisher]

we have a criminal lawyer at the casting club......

Could you ask him for his opinion? Things in law are seldom straightforward, but getting an opinion would be interesting.

[Inchlaggan]

we have a criminal lawyer at the casting club......

all lawyers are criminal, look at their fees.
The first thing he will charge you for is that this is largely a civil matter.

[Wildfisher]

The first thing he will charge you for is that this is largely a civil matter.

Even if the river you are practicing  on is covered by a PO?

But that is not relevant if  what you are doing is not fishing. Swimming is not fishing, dog walking is not fishing  and neither is canoeing, so as long  as you are doing them for recreational purposes (as opposed to commercial it seems), and doing them responsibly,  then you don?t   even have to ask permission from the landowner.

If  the legal extract that Smurf posted above holds then casting practice is not fishing either, so can we go down to any river or loch  at any time,  with our rod, line and bit of wool,   and not fish  responsibly and with due consideration to other users?

[Malcolm]

While fishing out of season for trout or salmon is a crime punishable with quite stiff punishment, "not fishing" surely cannot be!

If a bailiff asks me to stop fishing during the close season presumably it is because he thinks I am "fishing" and as it is out of season then it is a criminal offence.

However to argue that it is possible to angle without a hook is plain ludicrous. So if you are being jumped on it must be for some other law.

If I am stopped by a bailiff or by our local policeman when I am teaching someone to cast I will most certainly stand my ground.

[Inchlaggan]

I'd be blooming certain that there was nothing about my person, or in my car, that could be contrived as a means of catching a fish.
As an (non-fishing) example- A deer stalker went out for a day's hunt, returned home and his son took the car out to the pub (properly insured etc.). The son did not drink alcohol, nor get involved in any aggression. On his way home he was stopped by the police, on the basis of doubting his ownership of the vehicle (it had a personalised registration). The vehicle was searched and two lock knives were found in the locked glove compartment. The son was brought to court for posession of offensive weapons.

[Malcolm]

I "sent" the last post before I had finished.

One of the things that would concern me is that it could cause quite a few call outs to the local police or bailiff force if someone is reported fishing - particularly out of season. Given that the Police are often slow enough to respond it would be worse if there was the chance of a false alarm. :worms

[Wildfisher]

If I am stopped by a bailiff or by our local policeman when I am teaching someone to cast I will most certainly stand my ground.

I am not suggesting you are, but if such  teaching is  done commercially then I don't think  the free and responsible  access legislation holds and permission  has to be sought from the owner. The Glengarry  canoeing court ruling  some months back suggests that is the case anyway.

[Malcolm]

Fachan,
Trout fishing outside of the season is a criminal offence and carries the same penalties as salmon poaching.

Ardbeg
The important point is that without a hook there can be no fishing. My knowledge of English Law is better than my knowledge of Scots Law but Lord Denning laid out a principle of statute law while he was Master of the Rolls. As this principle was said in the was the Court of Appeal.  I am sure it will have more than just "persuasive authority".

He called it the Golden Rule.

He said that where there was doubt as to the meaning of words of statute law it was the duty of the judge to examine the intention of the drafters of the law. It seems to me that the word of the law in the statute does not exist in limbo but rather exists in the context of "fishing" as we know it and clearly there can be no fishing with a bit of wool without a hook in it. It would be interesting to test it!

 

[Wildfisher]

- how plausible would be the 'It's alright - it's not loaded defence?'

Indeed, but as has been hinted at above, we have to separate what  a keeper thinks is wrong and what the law says is wrong. That's far from clear,  to me anyway. To be honest I'd like to think I'd be able to practice honestly, but do wonder  about the possibility of  abuse this might open up.

The disturbance thing is just a red herring, casting practice  would cause no more disturbance than many other  legal pursuits - for example grayling fishing -   and far less than many others such as canoeing and swimming. Just to be clear I'm all for grayling fishing, swimming, canoeing and casting practice.

[windknot]

i would dearly love to practice my casting on rivers or still waters out of season but this would just  be a nightmare for bailiffs casty club should left to alan in some pond if the poachers saw us practicing every weekend there would be more poachers than us thats for sure dont encourage them at is stands they stand out at least during daylight hours its best to keep the banks clear there must be hundreds during any season pleading ignorance a ticket ! i did'nt know aye right !