People may find fly casting difficult because ..........

[Wildfisher]

........ it's often very poorly explained.

Feel free to discuss.

[scotty9]

I agree.

It's also a completely unnatural movement, all throwing motions of the body use a follow through of the arm, casting stops it to add to the forward momentum - the brain needs some mega convincing! That's why pantomime casting works well IMO, I spent a lot of time looking like a plank holding a rod butt in my hand and going through the motions in the house! Muscle memory!

Another biggy is people pushing forward with the elbow/arm, my entire forward stroke is a downward movement of the elbow followed by a very postitive but tiny wrist pop, the forearm/upper arm angle doesn't change. This may help people: http://www.sexyloops.com/carlos/pushandpull.shtml It's much more efficient and you will NOT throw tailing loops, i'd almost say it's impossible with the correct pulling motion. But it's so hard to get the brain to want a up/down elbow movement rather than forward/back.

[Malcolm]

I've never had a lesson but an old boat partner of mine on Bewl Bridge was a top casting instructor. I watched him teach and he insisted upon bringing the rod very close to the ear when first learning. He said that this stopped a number of common faults before they started (dropping the backcast, moving the rod tip too far back amonst other things).

He hated to see the rod held out and cast at 45deg to the ground as lots of people do and wouldn't allow people to cast with an extended arm. Once the correct rod action had be learned he didn't mind what people did.

I remembered him again when I watched Peter Anderson cast; very neat and tidy, upright rod and small hauls on the backward and forward strokes. Just the same style as my old boat partner and although I suppose it looks slightly old fashioned both of them were (and are) superb casters even by the standards of today.   

[scotty9]

Very wise words those Malcolm and something that has just reinforced my thoughts of how I would teach. I did the same thing with Dave the other week, focussed on vertical plane. I don't like to stop at ear though, stop earlier so the line is heading up above horizontal, good reference point I suppose though.

I'm one of those guilty parties of dropping a backcast from off vertical although I will cast with rod vertical for short stuff and accuracy, longer stuff is just more comfortable if you open up the body.

[Wildfisher]

the first question perhaps is, how would you like this explained?

How is a beginner going to know this?  If a taking a driving lesson the instructor would not ask  that question.

But Alan has actually  hit the nail on the head as regarding what this topic is really  about. This is not about how well an instructor can cast him / herself. It's about ability to teach. Being qualified to teach a subject does not necessarily make one a teacher. Teaching is  a skill  that has to be mastered over and above the subject matter itself.

It just sort of came to me when I was practicing casting the other day and thinking deeply as i do...

[scotty9]

Personality can go a long way too. I have had a lesson from someone who won't be named but speaking to others it seems his attitude is not liked etc etc. That in itself is going to be a barrier to learning, I know from my uni studies that this is a fact. I had one lecturer this year who would arrive in class, read the slides that are available to students, offering nothing else. It resulted in me not going to that class... Ok it's still going to be easy to learn and it that sense isn't the same as fly casting but the principle is similar.

One thing from the casting club i've learned and from other instructors too is it is no use being able to explain something well if you can only explain it that one way. You need to be able to explain the same thing 10 different ways, as there will always be someone that doesn't understand it the way the previous person did.

[Wildfisher]

OK, so how does one take all the ideas, concepts, facts etc - whatever and present them in a way that is easily understandable to Joe and does not piss him off?

Joe is a thinker, he wants to know why.

[alba]

I would have never realised this untill about a year ago, ive never had a casting lesson in my life nor have i ever had anyone try to teach me it was a cae of me done the park with a fly rod and reel when i was about 9 or 10 casting away myself aiming at a target i had laid on the grass, I slowly but sure became better and better untill the stage I am at today.

But last season I tried to "teach" my mate how to fly cast with very little success!!! I think alot of it has to do with the pupils keeness and abilty to learn, I would defo say that I am not a good casting teacher tho.

Does anyone agree that you feel its something thats better self taught? Just keep trying youself till you get it kind of idea?

[emc]

OK, so how does one take all the ideas, concepts, facts etc - whatever and present them in a way that is easily understandable to Joe and does not piss him off?

Joe is a thinker, he wants to know why.

Absolutely. I've learn't to do a lot of things, been taught (and taught) the how and what to do, but when the how and what aren't working you're stuffed if you don't know the why. If you know the why, you can adjust the how and what to make it work. Understanding is all - and if you can'tand explain get your pupil to understand IMHO you may produce an automaton that can function when things are going by the book but when things aren't he (or she) will get nowhere.

Enough philosophy for the day - time to get back to work!!!

[scotty9]

I honestly believe in casting there is only so much "why" someone can teach someone else and it sure as hell is not done in an hour. It is done over months, maybe years. There really is an almost infinite amount to learn. The way this 2 hour lesson thing is means that the lesson is about the analysis of someone's cast and then a bit of work on the "how".

The "why" has to be learned through research, background reading, questions to your instructor via phone/email (assuming this is a lesson). It's the same in anything. You can teach someone how to solve a maths equation but there's a good chance they have no idea why... just like emc said.

And to say how do you teach this to someone, it is impossible to answer. You need real time feedback from the person. They will say I understand that or if you ask and you get an iffy response then you know it needs work.