People may find fly casting difficult because ..........

[Teither]

Malcolm,

          Thank you, sir, and no relation to the chap. Funnily enough, in the context of this thread, I believe it was Robert Heinlein who once observed that " one man's  "magic" is another's "engineering" ".

Magic, eh !!

J

[Teither]

Alan,
       You're nearly there, old bean. It's just that you've got it the wrong way round  !  I think that casting is first and foremost engineering, which may be developed to such exquisite skill level that it becomes poetic, or balletic in its application. Peter, the Master, is the classic example of that. And I think that Andrew Toft is at that same point of refinement, as Scott observed.
       But your analogy to teaching folk the fundamentals of drawing is spot on. I've lost count of the numbers of folk who have told me they couldn't draw for toffee. Then, when asked to lay out a basic diagram/map of how to get from point A to point B they almost invariably produce something perfectly acceptable. That's drawing ! And, for the purposes of developing their artistic skills, when you get them to try drawing simple objects, or even simple faces - I am not thinking here of any particular simple face  :lol: :lol: - they discover for themselves that they can, with a bit of patience and practice do just fine. Some are happy to leave it at that. Others want to develop and some even end up as exhibitors at the big national shows. But, as I said right at the outset, each will learn best if taught, coached, instructed - call it what you will [ and, yes, I know these three are different things ] - in the way that best accommodates to his or her preferred way of learning. None benefits from being put down or made to feel inadequate. And, really, that's all I was saying in the first place.
      Are we now, hopefully, at a point of agreement ? And, if so, precious, will you please try to show me how to accomplish some of these skills, eg hauling, stroke lengthening, with my wee single hander ? 
      God, I so love your stroke !  :lol: :lol:

Poor old Teither

[Malcolm]

I firmly believe that once you know the basics then it's ingraining muscle memory.

Since about December virtually all my casting at the casting club has been left handed. This has been a deliberate decision in order that I can switch hands really easilly at need on the river. When I went down the Clyde with Buzz, I continued and all my fishing that day was left handed.

In doing this all the faults that had long since gone with my right hand came back. Now they've mostly been worked out. The flying elbow, extended arm casting was there with a vengeance for the first few hours. Now it's a case of refining things.

The point is I know exactly what I should be doing but I was like a learner. There is little muscle memory so it is a much less intuitive process. I was very tempted a couple of weeks ago when Andrew Toft was looking over my shoulder and I was demonstrating a cast to one of the others to switch back to my right hand but resisted! 

To get an insight into the beginners head it's the best way I know. The "head knowledge" is all there but you will  cast like a beginner. I promise! 

[Teither]

Malcolm,
            I think you're right but I always found muscle memory hard to maintain, and more so the older I got. And tensions/ expectations get in the way too. In my golfing days my partner [ golfing ! ] and myself would be out two or three times midweek just enjoying the course and we'd be round in just over a couple of hours and each of us'd normally finish around par. Come the weekend medal days, with slow rounds and raised expectations, the tempos went " oot the windae " and we'd be lucky to hold on to our handicaps of 6 and 7 respectively. We eventually gave up playing in competitions and just settled for enjoying a few social and sociable [ and usually quite successful ] rounds for our week.
           I'm not sure that our fishing gets affected to that extent, but I find the casting does.
Teither

[Wildfisher]

Many people I know cast like a poet.

Usually William McGonagall

[corsican dave]

thanks dod!

i'd actually given up with this thread due to the overly analytical navel gazing...

[haresear]

A bit harsh Dave, some of the posters know their stuff and some of the readers enjoy what they're posting.

The thread certainly doesn't float everybody's boat but others can take something from it, a point made in several of the posts.

Cheers

Ardbeg

The thread didn't float my boat, I have to say. But....

We are all different. I mean in our abilities, our expectations, desires and needs....and I'm only talking about casting.

I am crap at some types of fishing and good at others. I'm probably good at the things I like and don't really care about the things I don't like or fancy. The rest of my life fits that pattern too.

Anyhow, back to casting. I love to fish rivers, so I want to fish them well. That's why I want to know all those presentation casts, mends and stuff. I need to be able to deal with wind on the river, so I need to know how to get an aerodynamic loop and to cast with various roll and spey casts.

If I only fished lochs from boats with traditional wet fly, I would be less interested in casting, because quite frankly I would only have to lift and lay safely.

If I was a bank loch fisher, I would be interested in casting for distance and I would want to be able to cast into the wind and deal with unfavourable winds. Mending and all that presentation stuff would be mostly irrelevant.

This in a nutshell is why I think we are all coming from different angles (oops, pun in this thread. We each fish different styles in different locations. Some people would like to cast to the moon and others are more down to earth in their approach.

Me? I'm more inclined to aim accurately for the mound of Venus  

Alex

[Wildfisher]

I think that's fair comment re: lochs / rivers. River fishing requires a  wider  casting repertoire. However, that was not  the subject of the thread.

[scotty9]

what was it again? :lol:

i have had many lessons, CPD days, demo's etc, read all the books and watched the vids, you see many different ways of explaining, 
i also spend one quarter of my week preparing oral and visual methods of explaining and evaluating CAD, construction practice and art,

casting(with the exeption of teaching women and some beginners) is the most difficult, i think the problem is right here in this thread, several pages long and we have yet to pinpoint what specifically is needed to be explained never mind how:lol:
maybe someone should clarify the bits that confuse or which explanations are confusing.

What you need is a small focus group, 6 or 7 people of varying abilities and a group of instructors. Work closely over the course of a day maybe days maybe weeks and work on all of these points. Eventually some sort of pattern may emerge, test ideas etc. Blimey that would be some full on real research, probably worth it in the long run though - could develop/get over the problems that have been outlined!

[Wildfisher]

It's mainly  because of the effects complex currents in moving  water have  on your flies and the effect that has on the fish. There are other factors too which vary from place to place.