Fishing

[Black-Don]

guidewise, Tony Riley in cumberland, and eastwind and joe on the forum here seem to catch massive fish far too often so that would do me on that one,

guest has a fine selection of lochs to puroooze and inchlaggan knows where to find charr, a different catagory maybe.

Good points Alan but the thing is would guides show you their best spot's ? I don't think so because doing this in Scotland would be suicidal killing the river or loch in little less than a few seasons.

If I could choose a guide I would go with one of the above and would hope they would trust me enough to impart some of their knowledge but I wouldn't think these guys would give up their wisdom to someone they hardly know.

A point that has been raised here is commercial viablilty on a full time basis and when you start to go down that route on freshwater lochs and rivers especially in Scotland I reckon your love for fishing and this country has been lost.

We went out with a guy called grant Tigwell on Loch Tay a few years ago and he charged ?90 for the day for his time and the use of his boat as well as permissions. I reckon this was too cheap and would have thought that around ?90 a day as a starting price for guiding is fair and reasonable with permit and boat prices to be added on top of that. Grant didn't guide as a full time occupation and had a part time job to supplement his income which is why he was able to charge such a low price. In order to come home with a clear conscience I don't think you could rely on guiding fees to give you a comfortable standard of living. Then again, look at the guys who do sea charters in Tenneriffe and the like, they know the fishing grounds are ****** but I'll bet they can still sleep soundly at night,  :roll:

As regards someone to go fishing with rather than guide me,  April Vokey get's my vote in the attractiveness stakes but Paul Yong, Aya Thorne and dare I say it Robson Green would all come a close second for entirely different reasons

[Ythanjoe]

My expectations from a guide would depend on the outing, if it was trying something different ,bonefish, say ( I can dream!) I would have, being put close enough to a fish, to have a fighting chance of a hook up , high on the agenda. If I was after familiar quarry in an unfamiliar land, trout in Iceland, for instance ( still dreaming!), I would  be more interested in learning something new, about the environment I was in and a technique/ skill learnt from experience , that I could take away, a fish would be a bonus. My Expectations with April Vokey may go in a different direction, if the fish go down , say..
Joe

[Black-Don]

though I better add the Fachan as his nose seems to be out of joint not getting mentioned :makefun.

Ardbeg

He did too!  :makefun

[Wildfisher]

Getting back to Ken?s comment about minimum wage. This only applies when you are an employee.  Self employed people are their own masters and will either make a living  wage or they won't. There is no legislation to cover this.  This to a large extent depends on what they are doing. It most certainly is not the responsibility of your customers to ensure you are earning a living wage.

The ?good life escapism?  style business, often much loved by incomers  from south of the border it must be said  and that are scattered over the rural  parts of Scotland ? potteries,  picture framing, tea and scones type of thing are unlikely to produce enough income by themselves and may not go near minimum wage levels once you work out the total hours worked. I would include guiding along with this, it?s probably worse as the potential customer base is small and the sums asked are large in comparison to a pot of tea and  a butter scone.

To be brutal this is a lifestyle choice. You make the choice  to do it or you don?t.  When making choices like that in pays to temper your enthusiasm with a bit of realism. If you want the guarantee of a  minimum wage, get a part time job  stacking  shelves in Tesco then go out and enjoy fishing in your increased spare time. You won?t have any numpties to look after either.  

[Part-time]

Alex sort of answer i was looking for. When I go to Ireland I fish the moy Estuary for Sea Trout, from the bank. I paid for a guide the first couple of time(thank god) as some of the marks from the bank are treacherous . In fact I once had to help a guy to safety( a Guide) gospel truth. It was worth every penny, the guide that is.

One of the few times I hired a guide was there and very good he was to. Would not have known where to start and as you say a risky place to fish. While others fished from the boat the guide dropped me off to fish from an island - you didn't wade out to it did you :shock:

I'd probably only think about hiring a guide if I was going abroad; back home I'd be (have been) happy to be guided by folk on here for the price of a shared piece and a wee dram    

Not quite the same as guiding but it would have been quite an experience to fish with the famous/infamous fishers - say night fishing with Hugh Falkus and fishing with Inglis-Hall on his highland stream

[Inchlaggan]

Getting back to Ken?s comment about minimum wage. This only applies when you are an employee.  Self employed people are their own masters and will either make a living  wage or they won't. There is no legislation to cover this.  

Correct of course, but (to split a few hairs) I would be "employing" the guide. Having supported the idea of a minimum wage, how can I (on moral grounds) "employ" a guide for less than this amount?.
If I wish an expert I can expect to pay more, similarly if I wish the guide to provide boat, petrol, gear and so on.
I am only responsible for the day(s) that I employ the guide. I am not responsible for his making the minimum wage over the week, season or year. However, in economic terms, I must expect to contribute to the guide's overheads.
Ghillie, Guide, Stalker, Keeper were respected professions (and not just in Scotland) and I accept that there is much to criticise in the way estates were run, but they are few and far between nowadays.
Incomers (including myself) accepting less than the minimum wage or full economic cost do little to help the local economy (or invest in the environment) simply to garner a little pocket money.

[Wildfisher]

Fair points Ken, but morality   carries no legislative  force here. When I see  a product for sale, be it a fish supper or a superb Wildfisher fly line  :lol: I have to decide if I can afford it and make my choice. It's up to the  chip shop owner  /  superb  Wildfisher fly line supplier to set the price  and for me to choose either  to buy it or not. Don't get me wrong, I think guiding might be a way to earn a bit of extra income, I might even give sub-300M guiding a go myself one day (can't be too careful in the mountains)  if I can be bothered with the red tape / hassle, but I am realistic. I honestly cannot see it ever being  more than that. Even in fish of a lifetime destinations like New Zealand most if not all of the guides only earn part of their living from their guiding activities.

[Inchlaggan]

Quite possibly Alan, and I agree with much of what you say. However, the minimum wage was introduced to avoid the control of "market forces" pushing wages down below a living wage- (politics stops here).
Round here you can get boat, petrol and permission to fish for ?75, book and bring your own boat costs ?25, in each case you must launch and retrieve the boat yourself. Yes, there are experts who can read a new water and will get in contact with fish, but sometimes even they blank. Blanking is also true of regular visitors.
For ?175 you get yourself guide,boat, petrol, gear, experience, qualified instructor, local knowledge and contact with fish (but sometimes even we blank!) and you do not have to haul the boat in and out of the water.
In both instances you can have three rods fishing.

[Wildfisher]

did i kill the thread :lol:

No, it's just going round in circles. Obviously we are lost and should have hired a guide.   :lol:

[haresear]

the money is in teaching people how to do things, for example, if i said i know this guy that could teach you how to get a drag free drift every time, wouldnt you want to know who he is, how much, how long it would take you? someone that can do this can charge what he chooses,
i would doubt anyone here would see the logic in this because everyone here can catch fish,

That - the learning experience, is what I would pay for, rather than a quick big fish, which I equate with hiring a prostitute.  Maybe fun at the time, but meaningless.

Alex