Ultra big flies for Grayling

[Malcolm]

The grayling Stravaig in January on the Tay got me thinking about very heavy flies. The largest I have ever used is a size 8 longshank caddis which has a large split shot incorporated in the dressing. 

A few years ago I remember reading an article on the Annan where one of the flies mentioned was a grayling fly tied on a size 2 Longshank.

I decided to have a little rummage through my books and on the continent it's clear that some fish much bigger flies than we do here - Theo Bakelaar's big goldhead nymph is tied on a size 2 and clearly carries a hell of a lot of weight and some of Francesco Palu's nymphs are huge too.

Has anyone on here tried these monsters for grayling?

[haresear]

There is no way a hook that size cannot damage the fish.

That's my thinking too Malcolm. Tie a long shank or even a tube, but a big gape has to damage fish quite badly and possibly fatally.

Having said that, when Harelug (currently a swine fever victim) and I were in Alberta/BC, lots of big hopper patterns were in evidence and tied on pretty big hooks too. Now, on one or two C&R rivers, the fish showed a lot of damage from multi hook injuries, but were otherwise healthy. Fish are tougher in some respects than we might think.

I still can't bring myself to use big hooks/wide gapes on grayling and I'm currently trying to find a way to tie a mouse pattern on reasonable sized hooks for foreign trout. I also don't follow why pike flies seem to be tied on monster hooks (why not a nylon tube?, when my standard pike deadbaiting trebles were always a size 8 :?

Alex

[Wildfisher]

Im toiling to understand why a big hooks wide gapes will do more damage,

Me too. It all depends on the size of the fish. A size 16 has as much potential  to damage a 6 inch trout as a size 6 does  a 4 pounder.

[haresear]

Im toiling to understand why a big hooks wide gapes will do more damage, is it because of  the the girth of the whole caused by the guage of the wire (ie bigger hole), should medium or finer  wire hooks be more fish freindly than heavy wire jobs?  :?

I suppose my prejudice against big hooks is founded on my years as a bait fisher, unhooking the occasional deep hooked fish like wee perch and witnessing the damage caused by outsized hooks in relation to the size of fish.


If the fish is liphooked, as most are, then you are right Col (and Fred). The damage to the fish is confined to the lip/mouth itself and so the bigger hook will cause pretty much no more damage than a smaller hook of the same gauge of wire. It is only when hooked further back in the throat or beyond that the bigger gaped hook will penetrate more deeply and potentially cause fatal damage.


In reality, if we are fly fishing, we don't deep hook many trout or grayling at all, so I concede that a big hook is less likely to cause much more damage than a smaller one.

OK guys, you have made me think about this and I am doing a complete U-turn. : It's good to talk as Bob Hoskins used to say.

Now where are those size 2s

[Malcolm]

I think the ones which do the real damage are treble hooks - especially if barbed. I feel a fair amount of disbelief when salmon fishermen proclaim they do C&R with a boxful of treble hooks. I reckon most salmon hooked on these are goners and more than that they give an excuse for: " I know it's a bit tartan but I had to chap it- it was badly hooked"

Can't see barbless singles doing much damage though.

I've just tied up the heaviest fly I've ever tied. I could cast it 50 yards with a spinning rod! 

[3 weight]

I've read in a couple of places that grayling regularly take fairly large salmon flies so stepping up the size could be productive, also, apparently it is common practise to spin for them in some countries, big streamers perhaps?

[haresear]

I've seen a few grayling caught on spinners, Mepps type bar spoons usually. The biggest grayling of those I've seen caught by spinning was around 2lb and took an Abu salmo toby.  :shock:

I know in Alaska and Canada they fish for (arctic) grayling with spinners, but to be honest I don't see any real advantage in using this method in the UK. Firstly, you are likely to be accused of out of season trout/salmon fishing and secondly, I think there are methods which are likely to be more effective.

Trotting with maggots is in my experience, the most effective way to catch numbers of grayling in fairly big rivers, with holding pools and deep runs.

Alex

[Malcolm]

I think that may be true for Scotland Alex, However on the Wiltshire Avon I'd be using weighted nymphs every time. Although I'd admit that trotting a maggot isn't an option there! However big numbers of grayling are there for the asking - and you can see them. That helps. 

[3 weight]

I would probably favour trotted maggots in terms of productivity aswell, its probably more enjoyable than hurling big clumsy czech nymph rigs too.

[Hans]

In the Norwegian river Glomma loads of grayling are caught on the so called 'Glomma-dog'.
This is a big streamer, tied on a size 8 hook, a BB split shot in front, tail is a natural rabbit zonkerstrip.
The length of the fly is about 3 inches, and although originally designed for big broons the grayling obviously like them as well.
Weird to see a 3 inch fly taken by a 10 inch fish.... :shock:

Hans