The Wild Fishing Forum

After  we discussed this and losing fish in one of the reports in the members only section a week or so ago I tied a variety of flies on barbed hooks.

With those flies I have not lost a single fish. The fish included many small trout, a salmon that ran 100 yards and a sea trout. The hooks were large and small (8 to 16), but all normal / short shanked and all still had the barbs (I am giving up on long  shank hooks).

Last night I went back and tried barbless again and lost half of the fish I hooked.

It's a bit early to say but I am coming to the conclusion that barbless hooks are a bit of a disaster when it comes to holding onto fish. What are you thoughts on this? I have added a poll to get some idea of use; please indicate your preference and your comments are eagerly awaited.

I switched to barbless but debarbed rather than out & out barbless some years ago, mainly because I put back all/most of my Trout now. I put barbless but I forgot Salmon so really answear should have been both.
I do think that you lose more using barbless but does not bother me too much unless it is a good fish but I soon get over it as I can put it down to the hook & not some mistake on my part LOL If you keep a good strain then the hook will generally stay put but give them slack & invariably they come off. Having said that I never horse a fish like some do so maybe that is why I lose a few more. I think I do it right but on ocasion it goes pear shape but another will come along.
I still use barbed hooks for my Salmon fishing, probably because I go so long before I get one I want the added security of a barbed hook even though I may put it back I bloody want to see it. Of if I fished some prolific river in Canada or Russia I would use barbless but on the River Leven where for two years running I never landed a fish though lost a few it will still be barbed & oh a wee Esmond Drury Treble to boot. double security.
What I do not do is buy barbless hooks but pinch the barb with smooth flat pliers. You still get a little bump & that indeed may well help a hook hold but hook pulls out easily with little if any damage to fish.
Tight Lines

TIP: When tying a fly pinch the barb before you tie as sure as fate you will do it after your creation & the point will break off rendering fly useless. Take it from me it does happen.

I have no problem with using de-barbed, rather than barbless hooks for most of my flies.

The only time I use fully barbed is on weighted or otherwise heavy flies, where I think the additional weght could work against the hookhold when a fish shakes its head.

Alex

I've been using de-barbed hooks for twenty years or more and seldom lose fish once they are hooked. I do lose fish but I put that down to playing them too hard after the take and not letting them run for a bit. If I remember to let them run then I don't lose them possibly because the hook is set better when I stop them :)

For me the jury is out. I don't lose many  big fish on barbless (although I did a few weeks ago on the upper Esk) mainly just run of the mill. I am going to fish mainly barbed for a while and observe.

For me its a bit of both, for trout it tends to barbless or de-barbed, for sea fishing its always barbed.   

I started tying pike flies on barbless this year and I've lost count of the number of fish I've lost. I really wanted for them to be a success, but it's getting to the point where i'm beginning to get annoyed. prior to this i rarely had one throw the hook.when you have a fish on for a good 20 seconds plus, you'd expect it to stick. back to barbed, i'm afraid. :?

Purely from a brown trout anglers perspective like me, we know they can be tricky customers. I changed to barbless for the later part of a season about six years ago with the best intentions but quickly came to the conclusion that I was losing too many fish, something that annoys me greatly.

A half punner from a burn is an excellent fish just as much as the bigger guys and need to be landed in my world. I've put a lot of thought into not losing fish and barbed hooks are part of my set up. I give total respect to handling our trout and along with the usual care I use a suitably long and thin good quality disgorger and hope this reduces the impact of a barb.

ps. I have the occasional winter session for grayling trotting worm and maggot using a float on spinning gear. Local rule is barbless hooks, I use a really good barbless hook by G-Point and REFLO line supposed to have built in stretch.

If I get a run of fish going I don't seem to lose too many. Different method, gear and different fish behaviour. More often than not a slow pulling competition through the currents.

I haven't used a barbless hook since the last post on the subject but then I haven't done as much fishing as I used to. Last time I was one of the few who thought I lost more with barbless or crushed barbs so I'll stick with that.

Anyway I find that I very rarely if at all damage fish mouths when releasing by being careful.

I did wonder at one point (no pun intended) if I was not setting the hooks well enough, by logic tells me that barbless hooks should be easier to set than barbed hooks.

Quote from: admin on July 12, 2014, 09:37:54 AM
I did wonder at one point (no pun intended) if I was not setting the hooks well enough, by logic tells me that barbless hooks should be easier to set than barbed hooks.

precisely how i felt, Fred. i was beginning to think i'd lost whatever touch i had. 8 pike on, (enough to bend the rod over and pull some line, then off  :?) in one session, was the final straw.

I squash the barbs on all my flies. I don't care how many troot I lose any more, as I know I will still get a few to hang on now and again. It is just so much easier to slip the hook out and return them. And it's easier pull them out of yourself or your clothing.  :lol:

Billy

I was out for a few hours last night on the local stream. I hooked 6 fish, landed 6 fish. All on a fly tied on a Partridge Klinkhamer Extreme - the absolute worst holding hooks on the planet - it had the barb left on. Seemed to me a good hook to use as a trial as it is so bad.  I had some trouble unhooking one of the fish but it was OK. The fish were all on the small side, which was even better for the trial as I am sure  smaller fish are more likely to drop off than bigger ones. I was going to squash the barb down and continue fishing to see if I started losing fish,  but it got chilly and the fish went down, so that idea was stuffed!

I always fish with de-barbed hooks, generally done at the vice. Thinking about it now I have noticed that I have dropped quite a few bandies on the Luther his year, never really noticed it before. However I don't think I would switch to barbed flies due to the risk of damaging the fish.

I've been trial using barbed hooks for a week or so now. I have not lost a single fish. 

Apparently  that is true. Mackerel, if handled die. However it is suggested that if they are shaken off a barbless hook without handling they might be OK.

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Articles/Releasing_Mackerel.html (http://www.sacn.org.uk/Articles/Releasing_Mackerel.html)

I kill and eat mine, The Dug also loves them.  :D  The way I look at it is the tiny number I take will make little impact compared to what is taken in the wholesale slaughter of commercial fishing by  Norway,  Faero, Iceland, Scotland and beyond. This is one fish I would not fish for if I did not intend to keep them.

I've found there is a big difference between some of the manufactured barbless hooks, and ones where the barb is just mashed down.  Barbless hooks which have an offset point seem to hang onto the fish a lot better.  One of the reasons for using a barbless hook is that it comes out easier when you go to release a fish so it stands to reason that it will come out easier when you're fighting a fish.  This is especially true if the fish gets any slack during the fight.  Using manufactured barbless hooks with an offset point, I'm holding on to 90%+ of the fish I hook.

That makes  a lot of sense, Can you recommend a good brand of proper barbless hook Alastair?

I prefer barbed hooks, although I like short points and micro barbs as opposed to Salar type hooks (long point and big barb).
The bottom line is that more than enough of the silver scaley hoors fall off whilst using barbed hooks without the added difficulty of barbless hooks.

Quote from: Alastair on July 21, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
I've found there is a big difference between some of the manufactured barbless hooks, and ones where the barb is just mashed down.  Barbless hooks which have an offset point seem to hang onto the fish a lot better.  Using manufactured barbless hooks with an offset point, I'm holding on to 90%+ of the fish I hook.

funnily enough, i was surmising exactly the opposite about my ad swier pike hooks! the offset was one of the differences i could see from my preferred tiemco 811s. the curve of the ad swier may also have something to do with the hook up rate, tho'. it's very suggestive of a massive grubber style.

drop me a line Alastair and i'll post you some to try alongside your preferred brand.... :8)

I have ordered some Tiemco 103BL barbless hooks, they have a turned in point, so we shall see.  Strangely, they come in odd sizes, 13,15,17,19,21 etc. 

Fred if I remember correctly they are a very fine wire hook, need to play fish quite gently to get them to hand not ideal for larger fish.

I got the hooks Robbie and they are fine wire, however they appear to have a good temper. They are similar in gauge to Partridge Kinkhamer Extreme hooks and I have landed fish of up to 5lb on those. Only way to be sure is try them, so I've tied  up a few flies. I don't think they will get much of  a strength test on our local rivers, but it will be interesting to see how well they hold smaller fish, which I find are most likely to get off on the debarbed hooks I have been using!   :D

Well that was interesting. Just spent a few hours down at "the local. Difficult fishing, but I managed 1/2 doz up to about 10 inches. This is the prime falling off size range  for the debarbed hooks I have been using. 

I was fishing with a tiny dry tied on a size 19 Tiemco 103BL barbless. Fine wire and in turned point.

I did not lose a single fish.

Looking at each fish what was very clear is these hooks penetrate  much further that barbed / debarbed (razor sharp and fine) and that might be the reason they seemed to hold better. They unhook easier than debarbed hooks too which is as well as I managed to drive one into my thumb right up to the bend.  :roll:

I'll stick with these a while and see how it goes. I really don't want to use barbed hooks if I can avoid it.     

Tiemco 103BL are not cheap though!

Fred, Partridge SLD hooks may be an alternative. They have a slightly heavier gauge of wire but similar shape to the 103BL, I may have some 14's and 16's if you what to try them. Not sure how they compare on price but probably similar.

Robbie, I really don't like Partridge hooks, but I'll give those a try.   

Not even barbded hooks hold every fish Alan.

I was back out tonight, fishing dry flies tied on Tiemco 103BL barbless,  size 21 to 15. Lots of fish,  a few nice ones at that, did not lose a single one.

I got some Partridge SLD barbless hooks and they don't look  much different from the Tiemco, again light wire, but the temper of the steel  is just as important as the gauge. I would like some heavier wire hooks  for wets and nymphs, so I have ordered some Kamasan carp hooks to see what they are like. Carp hooks have to be strong!

I received a packet of Fulling Mill 35025 hooks which appear to be pretty good dry fly hooks. I had ordered them a couple of months ago from Sport Fish but they were not in stock at the time, had completely forgotten about them until I received an e-mail saying they had been dispatched!

Tiemco do a barbless wet fly hook 3769SP-BL, it has a spear point. I have not used them Mitch so can't comment on how good they are.

back on the barbs on Saturday afternoon. 5 takes, 5 pike.  :8) (brings the cost of the new sage pike rod down to £100 per pike, so far.... :roll:)

Quote from: corsican dave on August 11, 2014, 10:22:35 AM
back on the barbs on Saturday afternoon. 5 takes, 5 pike.  :8) (brings the cost of the new sage pike rod down to £100 per pike, so far.... :roll:)

Nice rod  :8)

Out of interest did you go for a fast/medium/slower action ?

Quote from: Colliemore on August 11, 2014, 05:44:38 PM
Nice rod  :8)

Out of interest did you go for a fast/medium/slower action ?

it's a powerful rod that loads very quickly. I would guess you'd describe it as medium/fast. feels like a fladen 6wt! also saltwater proof, so ticks a couple of boxes for me.

Just an update on this. Since I last posted I've been fishing a lot and have caught a vast number of fish. Using Tiemco, Partridge and Fulling Mill proper  barbless hooks with in turned points I have lost very few fish. In fact dropping a fish once hooked has become a rare event. These hooks also seem to be much sharper than standard hooks. The Fulling Mill hooks have the heaviest wire and are also the least expensive.