People may find fly casting difficult because ..........

[scotty9]

Malcolm - sorry, yes! I was getting the wrong end of the stick a bit, I'd be very quick in how long I used it for mind you! But yes - I finally see the point! 

Sandy - I'm with you. Hand in the pocket definitely. The left to right thing was so that the sad bastards that are out to accuse people of every such thing could not accuse you of inappropriate touching etc.... If you use the opposite hand you can stand beside. Sad I know but those types of people are out there!

[Teither]

I find the references to poets and engineers interesting, especially as someone who engages in producing the odd piece of poetry from time to time. I've known a few poets, and other artistic types in my time. I don't believe any of those that I have known would ever have failed to understand that casting a fly line, just like any other locomotive activity of the human body, requires, and indeed is only possible, by way of an engineering process. Nor have I known any who would specifically have shunned the notion of learning how that process might best be delivered.

But poets do tend to be quite sensitive souls - it's in their nature. And being inquisitive persons, usually, they do not mind at all being taught. They certainly , in my experience, enjoy learning and exploring ideas.

Some of the comments since Admin's post have left me remembering a scenario. Let me share it with you.

A chap - quite possibly a poet  -was standing by a pond one Sunday morning, practising his casting as best he knew. He was almost certainly not doing as well as he might. Believe it or not, he had managed to figure out that much all by himself   . Two instructors were watching him and each thought he could see the fault which needed correction. They were both almost certainly correct in their analysis. Each decided to approach the chap, but they did so separately.

The first instructor went over and said, " Hi there. I've been watching you and I think you've got a wee problem with tailing loops. Could I perhaps show you what I mean and maybe help you sort it out ? "
There was no hint of rhyme or particular poetical rhythm in the way this instructor put his proposition but the poor poet was nevertheless grateful for the intervention and was only too pleased that he was perhaps going to be helped.

In something of a parallel universe/time zone [ or whatever ] the second instructor made his approach. Adopting a puzzled expression, somewhat theatrically exaggerated, and scratching the top of his head Charlie Chaplin - style he said, " I don't understand that ! Why do you want to do that ? "
" Do what ? " asked the poet.
" Put a tailing loop into your casts ! "

Both of these instructors were very skilled and really knew their stuff. Each was a joy to watch and the poet had often admired their obvious abilities and casting grace. He knew, I mean really knew, that he was unlikely ever to be able to achieve the levels that these chaps has achieved. He had no illusions about that. But he was keen to do the best he could.

Which one do you think the poet learned from

[corsican dave]

crikey, if i were a beginner i'd sure as hell be intimidated by this topic! are you sure it's safe for a public forum? :shock: :lol:

i must tend more to the poetic and alan's bang on the money:

deep down they want to believe they were born with the talent they have not learned yet :lol:

although i fear i'm more of the DILLIGAF philosophy.

[scotty9]

Breac, yes sorry I did get the wrong end of the stick a bit!

I got annoyed at the thread and probably didn't read things the way I should have. I don't like the generalised approach of explanations = bad. I think there's much more to it than that.

[Wildfisher]

I don't like the generalised approach of explanations = bad.

poor  explanations = bad.

[emc]

poor  explanations = bad.

quite

[scotty9]

I meant I felt there was a generalised vibe coming across that explanations are poor across the board to which I do not agree with on the principle that no-one can have had exposure to everybody's explanations - if we're talking individuals then fine but it can't be generalised to all instructors. I fully agree poor explanations are bad.

And unfortunately there are instructors that could not tell you the "why" 

[Tweed]

Really interesting thread.

For what it's worth, I've always found when teaching folk to cast that it's best to keep it as simple as possible to start with.  The old up-pause-down with no shooting of the line at first and no false casting - jutst to get the line straightening out the back and in front.  Once they get the feel of it they can start shooting a wee bit of line and then a single false cast once they've mastered that.  As we go along, I'll try to explain the basic principles of 'why', but again keeping it very simple.  At first I think people get a feel for it, then get more into the detailed principles once they get past the basic level.  I don't play golf and so am pretty sh1t at it, but on the few occasions I've had a go I know when I've hit a good one - it just feels right.

I was casting a new 5# line on grass at the weekend and a certain 3 year-old ankle-biter wanted to tag along.  Now, this was using both hands and we're not talking 30 yard casts here, but I was amazed that she could do the up-pause-down thing and actually lay a short line out pretty straight in front of her.  Don't worry, she'll not be getting anywhere near water for a few years yet, but it did go to show that by keeping it very simple and in relation to what someone can understand, they will pick up the basics.

It's also how I was taught (fortunately by an instructor in my club - and a woman no less!) and it worked for me.  The bad habits came later  :roll:

Andrew

[Teither]

Alan,
       I'm not sure if you are getting the point of the wee fictional scenario I created. Let me state it more baldly . The first instructor in the scenario engaged the poor old poet's interest and attention. The second instructor came across as a smart-arse and the poor old poet switched off !! Incidentally, you should not assume that the first instructor did not explain the " why " elements. He did, clearly and in plain terms - in this wee fictitious account !!
       After the event which, being a fiction, of course, happened " long, long ago, in the olden days ", the poor old poet reflected that the second instructor probably had not meant to come across as a " smart-arse ". Most likely he was not aware that he was coming across in that way. Possibly he was , in spite of his various qualifications, just a wee bit short on emotional intelligence. Who knows ?
      I am puzzled as to why you ask whether you were one of these instructors . I had no particular individuals in mind at all - just types . Did you think you perhaps recognised yourself ? :lol: :lol:
      So ... let me assure you, old chap, that you were quite definitely not one of the two......Mind you I'll refrain from saying which one of the two you were not !! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, to be serious for a minute, I was interested in the poets/engineers scenario. And I get what both Admin and the late Mel Krieger were saying. I just think that Mr Krieger was unfortunate in his choice of " poet " as a word to describe the kind of pupil he had in mind. Poets actually do rather a lot of engineering in their work. They do it with words and language forms, for expressive purposes, and they do it to create very particular and highly crafted outcomes - just like casting instructors ! So we should not confuse notions of aestheticism with wooliness of approach or ethereal inconsequentialities. I can assure you that when I'm to be seen on a dewy pasture, composing some lines, I may well often be holding a daffodil to my nose, but I'm not doing it to smell the roses !! :lol: :lol:

[Malcolm]

Teither,

You're not Heinlein's brother by any chance? Nice prose.

Malcolm

Alan,
             
      So ... let me assure you, old chap, that you were quite definitely not one of the two......Mind you I'll refrain from saying which one of the two you were not !! :lol: :lol: :lol:
.........
I can assure you that when I'm to be seen on a dewy pasture, composing some lines, I may well often be holding a daffodil to my nose, but I'm not doing it to smell the roses !! :lol: :lol: