Casting

[whinging pom]

if it was down to 'needs' we would be worming or netting! It's about enjoying the experience.

Simple question: Whats helps to enjoy the experience? What hinders our enjoyment?

If our casting covers a range of situations that we find, without hitting the rod, catching our collar, landing in an undignified heap, or generating knots. Then the experience of a day by the river can on the whole, be more pleasurable.

We see other peoples effortless casting and think the experience would be even better if we can do that. But its not necessarily true.
Because casting is not the bottom line in fly fishing.... Getting trout to net is what counts.

Its not for most of us the quantity of trout, but the quality of the experience involved.... the challenge or the satisfaction gained.
And losing hooked trout before safely netting is much worse for most of us than getting the odd wind knot or the odd tailing loop.

On rivers: The further that trout is hooked from where your casting, the more chance you have of losing it, and of ruining your day a little.


Before one of the International river fly fishing championships Charles Jardine was doing some coaching with the team ( yes it surprised me too.) He was indicating a trout on the far bank, under a tree with some devious currents between caster and trout. They were discussing what type of cast and mends would get the right drift. One of the team said something like 'but that's daft, after all that faffing if you do hook it you'll never set the hook proper, and you'll probably lose it crossing the  current just wasting time and fish.
Errant member was challenged as to how he would do it.
He went back down stream a little, crossed to the far bank, sneaked up within a few rod lengths, and caught the the trout and netted it double quick

Moral of the story; We sometimes forget that casting is just one of our skills along with stream management( tactics not weed cutting). Too much reliance on it and it can soon becomes a handicap.
Feeding trout in rivers tend to stay put.... we are able to move.

......... and now the rant!

I wish people put as much noodle and grey matter into learning about the dietry requirements of the quarry, the delicate Eco system that supports them, and realised that the best way to catch more fish or have more pleasurable days, is to make sure that the waters are kept healthy for them to thrive in, the larders full, and the nusery area's are clean and productive with good safe habitat provided for the juniors.

Being a 'Good' or 'Great' fishermen should be more about what you give back to the waters and do to protect and improve them, rather than how tight and far your loops shoot.

[Fishtales]

I don't see this as an argument Scott, it is a discussion on whether taking casting lessons or learning a multitude of casts is really necessary for the majority of anglers. If the new angler is having difficulties then I would agree that having someone to mentor him whether an experienced friend or a professional instructor is necessary or he ends up not enjoying the experience and giving up. For the more experienced angler I think the ones who take the lessons are the ones who feel they want to take their enjoyment a stage farther, like someone taking the advanced driving test.

My personal look on it is that it doesn't really enhance the fishing and that casting, and learning all the intricacies that that entails, is actually a separate skill. I realise though that if there weren't those dedicated to learning these skills then there wouldn't be anyone to give lessons to the new anglers, much the same as driving instructors. Learning the basic cast is all that most new anglers want. If they can get the fly where they want it and catch fish they are generally happy with that and as they progress they learn new casts that suit there style for the situations they are in at that moment in time. Although an integral part of fly fishing casting, that is advanced casting and all that entails, is actually separate from fishing and is really two different skills.

[Malcolm]

......... and now the rant!

I wish people put as much noodle and grey matter into learning about the dietry requirements of the quarry, the delicate Eco system that supports them, and realised that the best way to catch more fish or have more pleasurable days, is to make sure that the waters are kept healthy for them to thrive in, the larders full, and the nusery area's are clean and productive with good safe habitat provided for the juniors.

You may be very pleasantly surprised then at the extent and depth of knowledge about the natural environment within the members of the Glasgow casting club.

I don't see this as an argument Scott, it is a discussion on whether taking casting lessons or learning a multitude of casts is really necessary for the majority of anglers. If the new angler is having difficulties then I would agree that having someone to mentor him whether an experienced friend or a professional instructor is necessary or he ends up not enjoying the experience and giving up. For the more experienced angler I think the ones who take the lessons are the ones who feel they want to take their enjoyment a stage farther, like someone taking the advanced driving test.

My personal look on it is that it doesn't really enhance the fishing and that casting, and learning all the intricacies that that entails, is actually a separate skill. I realise though that if there weren't those dedicated to learning these skills then there wouldn't be anyone to give lessons to the new anglers, much the same as driving instructors. Learning the basic cast is all that most new anglers want. If they can get the fly where they want it and catch fish they are generally happy with that and as they progress they learn new casts that suit there style for the situations they are in at that moment in time. Although an integral part of fly fishing casting, that is advanced casting and all that entails, is actually separate from fishing and is really two different skills.

What would you consider advanced Sandy?

[Fishtales]

Advanced as a caster you mean?

Anyone who has had the conviction to go and learn the intricacies of each and every cast that has been given a name by someone who has learned all the nuances of these casts and is willing to pass them on to others. A language teacher doesn't teach someone how to speak but he teaches the intricacies of the language so he is advanced as far as the person who only speaks the language is concerned. Someone who speaks the language doesn't have to go the teacher just as someone who has learned to cast doesn't have to go to a casting instructor.

[Wildfisher]

Advanced as a caster you mean?

Anyone who has had the conviction to go and learn the intricacies of each and every cast that has been given a name by someone who has learned all the nuances of these casts and is willing to pass them on to others. A language teacher doesn't teach someone how to speak but he teaches the intricacies of the language so he is advanced as far as the person who only speaks the language is concerned. Someone who speaks the language doesn't have to go the teacher just as someone who has learned to cast doesn't have to go to a casting instructor.

Can't agree with that. Surely it's all to do with choosing the correct baseball cap? 

[Wildfisher]

I'm not buying that one Mark, sorry.

I can get someone else to tie flies for me. I can't get someone else to cast for me. Getting better at casting is something I have to do myself - if I feel the need of course.   :lol:

[Fishtales]

I thought we were having a serious discussion on casting and whether it was a prerequisite for fishing or another branch of the sport. Obviously I was wrong.

Alan

I'm not disagreeing with anything. Yes I think there should be casting instructors, yes they enjoy their side of the sport but I don't think it adds anything to an experienced anglers enjoyment of his fishing. It may make him feel better thinking he can cast better but he will still fish the same way Which was the point of the original post.

[Wildfisher]

While i am sure most folk can cast, how many can wade tactically and do they know how many fish they spook doing so?

Well, I can only relate to my own experiences.

A better caster will be required to wade less. I wade far more than Alex does when I'm fishing with him. I have to get closer to the fish to be accurate. Even then he is still far more accurate than I am at all distances. He catches more fish than I do under these circumstances because he is a far better caster than I am.  That?s in New Zealand  of course where I can see the fish and see how they react.

The reason I don't  bother  too much  is I'm only there for 3 weeks and in any case I?m happy with the numbers of fish I catch when I am there. I?m pretty laid back about that.
The other 6 months of my fly fishing  is done here where I can?t see fish. This means casting accurately is far less important - the targets are bigger because  most of the time I'm fishing the water. Sometimes  I am casting to rising fish. Rising fish are feeding fish and generally you get away with a hell of a lot more sloppiness  when fish are feeding, but   not always of course.

I don?t believe I?m in any way unique, in fact I know I?m not. My first trip to NZ was an   eye opener and prompted me to observe others  at home. Most  are just as mediocre casters  as I am and have the same  or at least similar faults.

Yes, there is more than casting to fly fishing and I don?t  believe top gun casters all make top gun anglers,  but in my experience being a better caster will  help you help you catch you more fish. Certainly  being a worse  caster won?t.

[Brian Mcg]

Fred as long as you are Happy.
I think some people look at Instructors as if they are different from them(some are they have a different walk or srutt.)
I would never approach someone and suggest their casting is poor(some do) but if they approach me I will do all I can to help out.
But WP has a valid point I am not so good at entomology I know the basics but would love to know more(thanks John Goddard's waterside Guide). I am also not so hot at tying flies in fact I detest sitting tying flies so you could put me in the poor fisherman bracket.
The thing is at the moment I am Happy. I know the day I stop Learning they will be screwing the bit of Oak down on top of me. I wish I had been this keen at School(I would have been more interested if Mr Brown had resisted whacking me on the head every ten minutes) I wasn't stupid. I was Dyslexic.


Brian

[Wildfisher]

To be honest I don't  believe an in depth knowledge of  entomology is hugely  important. Yes, it's good, interesting and useful to have some idea  about the flies and their  life cycle, but I  do like the John Gierach- "size 14 brown"   approach. Anyway choosing a suitable fly is of little good if it ends up in a tree first cast.  :lol: