A wierd thing about casting distance

[Traditionalist]

Indeed.  Overlining a soft rod will also cause problems as it slows it down even more and usually slows recover as well.

TL
MC

[Fishtales]

As I have said in other posts I don't really think a lot about my casting unless there isn't a lot happening and I get bored. The telescopic rod I was using on my last trip I found very soft compared to the Daiwa I normally use. I suppose it didn't help much that it was probably cracked at the time I was using it. When I first started casting with it I couldn't get the line to go out as far as I would normally with the ten foot, the Shakey was only nine although both #7 weights. As the day progressed I gradually altered my usual casting to match the rod, not consciously as such it just happens when I use a different rod, until I was casting my usual distance and getting the line to land more or less as I wanted it. I'm not sure what I did but it feels like I slowed my action down slightly to allow the slower rod to catch up with the line before going into the forward cast.

As far as high banks and casting are concerned I just make sure the line is going up rather than straight back and cast in the direction I want the line to go in. When I was first learning to cast my mate, who was teaching me, couldn't understand how I managed to get the line to go out in front without tangling as it went up and crumpled, his words, on the back cast. I do catch the hillside occasionally but it is normally as I get tired, bored, distracted or try for a few feet more to cover the fish that was just rising out of range. I fish to my limits and only try a few casts at out of range fish before reverting back to just casting and fishing. I don't get hung up if I can't make the cast, or it gets stuck in heather behind me, I just forget about it and carry on along the bank.

[Malcolm]

Mike,

Oddly enough I normally cast a little better and a little further with softer rods. Generally I find almost no difference between any rods - be they from the 1980s or the latest offering from Sage. Indeed there is little difference in distance terms between a 40 year old 6 weight glass and a modern carbon rod for practical fishing. The cargbon is about an ounce or so lighter.

One exception is the Hydros 5 weight that Alan mentions I can barely cast at all although I have seen Scotty9 on here cast 114ft with it.

[Traditionalist]

Mike,

Oddly enough I normally cast a little better and a little further with softer rods. Generally I find almost no difference between any rods - be they from the 1980s or the latest offering from Sage. Indeed there is little difference in distance terms between a 40 year old 6 weight glass and a modern carbon rod for practical fishing. The cargbon is about an ounce or so lighter.

One exception is the Hydros 5 weight that Alan mentions I can barely cast at all although I have seen Scotty9 on here cast 114ft with it.

A lot depends on technique. I know a bloke who casts well over 100 feet using an old bamboo rod , ( he uses the Belgian style  http://www.g-feuerstein.com/Elliptical_Fly_Casting.html  ). Some rods are well suited to some people, others far less so. Some people can use virtually any rod and others have problems with only slight differences. The modern trend seems to be mainly towards extremely fast rods.  For some things I prefer a softer heavier ( actual weight in ounces) rod because you can do things with them that you can't do with lighter rods. For close range light line fishing you can't beat a rod with a decent heavy tip. The tip itself is sufficient to cast just a leader.  It won't work well with light carbon fibre rods. I have a "solid" carbon fibre rod which also works well for this.  All depends on what you want and how you use it.

TL
MC

[Malcolm]

For some things I prefer a softer heavier ( actual weight in ounces) rod because you can do things with them that you can't do with lighter rods. For close range light line fishing you can't beat a rod with a decent heavy tip.

TL
MC

Do you know Mike, you are the only person I have ever heard say that apart from me! I prefer a rod with a heavier blank because it will pick up my heavy flies from anywhere for the short and accurate spey casting which I spend my half my fishing life doing. Fast or light rods simply don't cut the mustard. Greenheart is nearly as good as older carbon and much better than modern carbon but is much too heavy for practical all day fishing.

[Traditionalist]

PS.  Although common, "Belgian style" is the wrong name for the elliptical casting technique. It is correctly referred to as Gebetsroither Technique or Austrian Style.

TL
MC

[Traditionalist]

Do you know Mike, you are the only person I have ever heard say that apart from me! I prefer a rod with a heavier blank because it will pick up my heavy flies from anywhere for the short and accurate spey casting which I spend my half my fishing life doing. Fast or light rods simply don't cut the mustard. Greenheart is nearly as good as older carbon and much better than modern carbon but is much too heavy for practical all day fishing.

Very fast light rods can be a real problem at short distance. Although a lot of people will give you arguments about that!    I did some experiments a few years ago, adding weight to the tips of some rods. (I just put various tungsten weights in the tip). Worked great for short distance light line fishing as the rod loads itself, and obviated the problem of the whole rod being too heavy.  Indeed I think the reason many people overline drastically is to try and slow down their "pokers" as otherwise they can't use them very well at "normal" fishing distance.  "Normal" varies of course according to where you fish and what you fish for.

There are all sorts of nice tricks you can do.  Many people have major problems because their gear is not matched up properly and also not tailored to their real requirements. Some are impressed with people/rods who/which can cast a whole line , there was a common trick by some firms/casters at game fairs years ago, they cut twenty feet off a DT and demonstrated casting the  "whole" line, certainly sold some rods, and as the buyers never ever attempted to cast a whole line it was seldom noticed or remarked upon.

If you fish small streams and the like then you are looking for ease and precision at very short range. You certainly don't need a rod and line setup that can cast 60 feet, let alone 100.  You can not even see further than 30 feet on some streams.  Still water fishing is different again.

TL
MC

[Wildfisher]

If you fish small streams and the like then you are looking for ease and precision at very short range. You certainly don't need a rod and line setup that can cast 60 feet, let alone 100.  You can not even see further than 30 feet on some streams.

Last year I bought  a short #4 weight split cane rod just for that. It loads itself and  casts and turns over a few feet  fly  line and  leader. It reminds me of everything I lost in fly fishing.

[Traditionalist]

Austrians copied it from an old belgian guide who used it to cast nymphs according to Ritz, it can be used in a slight upward curve to get a high back cast but it never works, should rename it the 'heather cast'.

The style was invented by Hans Gebetsroither an Austrian shoemaker, river keeper, and guide. He taught the style to a number of people, one of whom was a Belgian named Albert Goddart who won a silver medal at  the world championship in Brussels in 1958.  He met a lot of Americans and  demonstrated the Gebetsroither style in the USA, that's why the Americans call it the Belgian Style.

Hans Gebetsroither died in 1986. 

This is Hans Gebetsroither;

Fliegenfischen: Wurftechnik nach Gebetsroither

he was a very nice bloke.  I met him a few times. By the way, he invented the style as a result of looking for ways to dry his customers soaked silk lines more quickly.

TL
MC

[Traditionalist]

thats interesting, I'm sure Ritz had the same story the other way round, a thing that has interested me for a long time is Lee Wulff's oval cast, popularised by Joan more than Lee, she considered it the most energy efficient and elegant cast, i'd like to see the cast performed in the original way, common perception that this is similar to a belgian cast but i believe its very different, nearer to italian style.

Have a look here;

http://www.g-feuerstein.com/Elliptical_Fly_Casting.html

EDIT:  Link changed, I posted the wrong link!

TL
MC