Just an update on some of the recent posts we meet on a Thursday evening at Knightswood Park pond from 6.30 ish. There are beginners and experienced guys and even one or two level 2, GAIA, APGAI et al coaches on hand to help out and give advice. It is an opportunity to practice your casting, polish up your double hauls etc. In addition it gives you an opportunity to try rods and lines that you maybe are thinking of buying. Also if you have any specific problems such as what wrecked my line? or how to make or what sort of leader to use then we can try to sort it for you.
It is very informal so do not expect intensive 1-2-1 sessions. As part of our deal with the council we have had to take out 3rd party insurance so we charge ?1 for attendance to pay for it. When the nights draw in we have permission to meet on a sunday from 9am until mid day which we will start to use probably in mid september but I will post a notice when we do. This club is partly an extension of Milngavie Flydressers who will be planning to get some speakers during the winter month this will give us a bigger audiance base and if you have any suggestions for speakers please let me know. So far I have had Charles Jardine suggested and Paul Proctor again as we had him up last year.
Finally we get about 20 rods attend mostly trout but some salmon also. We do tend to get glued to the pond but there is also lots of grass around which for trout casts can be just as effective and sometimes less distracting if you want to practice something in particular.
If I can help further please ask. I will not be there until late tonight 13th as I have a piping festival to run.
Alberto Laidlaw
Quote from: Bandy Catcher on August 13, 2009, 01:06:20 PM
I applaud your initiative in setting this up Alberto. Sadly, it's too far for me to come midweek. Perhaps, when you start the Sunday sessions, I can find another reason to visit Glasgow and come down for a session. God knows, my casting needs some help!
Just a question - Is it ok for people just to turn up on the day, or should they contact you first?
John
Hi John, I'd imagine you'd be fine just to turn up. That's what i did and there seemed to be no problem. Heck you could organise a fishing trip somewhere central for the saturday, stay over and hit the casting club on a sunday morning. Endless possibilities..... :D
For anyone thinking of coming along to this, it is fine to just turn up on spec.
The amount of help/instruction varies according to who turns up on the night, so sometimes there can be a degree of 1-2-1 and sometimes not, so you shouldn't rely on this.
Alex
Its ok to just turn up keep a look out for a post re the sunday sessions
Alberto
I took a nip along tonight but arrived late so didn't want to intrude. I think I saw Malcolm there.
I asked a couple of guys if they had caught anything. But they weren't having any luck. :wink:
It's a great idea, the organisers should be applauded.
I enjoyed going last night. I probably won't be a regular as it compromises my sea trout fishing but I was shown 2 casts last night. One of which will be very useful on occasions and one which scrambled my head. Thanks Alex and Zoomer.
Malcolm
Malcolm
It was great bto see you there sorry about the skagit
Alberto
I can't believe that you came and did not say hello people come and go all evening so next time just get a rod out
alberto
I'm really pleased I made the effort to get along to the Casting Club last night. Great bunch of guys. I found it very informal and laid-back, just as I like it, with a good range of casting abilities on show to keep things interesting. There was no sense of competition either (other than some tongue in cheek stuff), which was a relief as my casting's 'not all that'. Just generous amounts of tips and banter. Great to meet some other Forum members too, which is always interesting and often surprising. Who'd have thought that Zoomer would be so very old, and the antithesis of respectable for example? Just goes to show, you think you know someone based on their online identity! Anyway, hats off to you auld yin for managing out and it's nice that you can still get a yard or two of line on the water between puffs on your inhaler and despite your arthritic elbow and catarracts. Is it true you turn your hearing aids up full so that you can time your hauls using the ticking sound from your pacemaker? :lol: Seriously, Zoomer, you're a modest chap for someone that casts 30 yards without breaking sweat! I'll watch and learn at future meets. Cracking wee Club which everyone can benefit from - thoroughly recommended it! :D
Quote from: Blanefishing on August 14, 2009, 09:50:39 AM
I can't believe that you came and did not say hello people come and go all evening so next time just get a rod out
alberto
Will do, sorry for not saying hello. :oops:
I'll be along about 8.30 again, think this will be the best i can manage from now on. Stick around late guys :lol:
Made it along to the casting club last night,it was great-very informal.Was nice to see some old and new faces.Thanks to Alex and Alberto for helping me out.
It's made me start to think about my casting which can only be a good thing.Despite fishing for most of my life it would appear that I have a hell of a lot to learn about casting!
cheers
Paul
Quote from: paulr on August 21, 2009, 09:26:33 AM
Despite fishing for most of my life it would appear that I have a hell of a lot to learn about casting!
cheers
Most of us do, in fact we probably all do, but as Buzz said sometime ago - don't let it ruin your fishing.
Yeah it was good last night, not least because the rain Gods kindly took a tea break for the duration! Not sure if he read this, but I'd like to say thanks to Andrew (caster extraordinaire) for spending time with the newby I brought along - cheers mate I was failing him miserably! It's very obvious to me that I've got a long way to go too in terms of my casting ability, but I'm inspired to improve when watching the better casters do their stuff at th Club. I'll get there... eventually! :D
Paul i forgot to ask last night, was there an outcome to the mystery fly line destruction?
River Chatter - you definitely got the right guy to help. Andrew's the best guy for the job. Helped me loads to get my casting sorted out, it's come on leaps and bounds since then.
Nah Scotty,
Once it became apparent that I can't actually cast, the line damage was forgotten about!
cheers
Paul
Make sure there's some battery left for me arriving! :lol:
Quote from: zoomer on August 21, 2009, 04:40:17 PM
fmalcolm in a casual sports jacket, with pipe, holding an umbrella in one hand and casting with the other
Data items correct, sequence wrong. Should be a business analyst :)
Thanks to Hare's Ear for showing me the overhead curve cast and to Zoomer for the bump roll. Having never had a casting lesson it's quite fascinating watching how rather more classical casters manage to repeat a casting action time after time rather than just pitching the fly out there....
Did the young lad Blair turn up last night ?
Quote from: zoomer on August 21, 2009, 10:15:19 PM
it has gotton very busy to the point that you just cant talk to everyone.
See what happens if you let just any bugger in?
What you need is reports section style access to keep the riff raff out. :lol:
Eh? Riff raff? Was it the bottle of bucky hanging oot ma jaicket that gave the game away? Anyway, we've not even met Admin, so who's been talking? ...eligibility criteria to loiter aroon' in a park in Knightswood - what bloody next! :lol:
Quote from: admin on August 21, 2009, 10:17:28 PM
See what happens if you let just any bugger in?
What you need is reports section style access to keep the riff raff out. :lol:
Oh there is, the criteria is you must have a central area, glaswegian orientated accent :makefun
QuoteDid the young lad Blair turn up last night ?
Young boy from Falkirk Donald? He was very keen and casting quite nicely for a beginner. In fact he was casting quite nicely, period. Andrew Toft and I think Alberto (Blanefishing) gave him some instruction and I gave him a few pointers on river fishing.
Zoomer is right. It is hard to get round everyone. Every week brings another couple of total beginners and we really should take it in turns to give them the basics when in fact we just want to mess about casting ourselves and talk fishing :).
I tried to work out what the problem is with Paulr's line. I don't know for certain, but I reckon it is a casting issue which we are working on ("the stop", Paul).
Malcolm if you work out that left corkscrew cast http://jasonborger.com/2009/08/06/corkscrew-curve-text-vids/, be sure and give me some tips
Alex
I really should get along to this at some point - Have told Alberto that due to new baby if I have a slight (even hint) of a couple of hours free on a Thursday I would probably be going fishing :)
Once the close season is in I quite fancy the Sunday mornings though :-)
The Casting Club's great and easy to recommend. Most of us competent but mediocre casters should be able to take a turn in getting total beginners under way and to the point where they can lay out a straight line. I'm wondering if we could add a wee bit of structure to it though, so that we're all doing using the same approach? A session on teaching beginners the fundamentals would be useful I think. It would help to avoid a scenario where a few willing horses getting saddled (ahem) with the bulk of the coaching. I wondered also if the Casting Club is a constituted body yet? Blanefishing, do you want to field that one? :)
The casting club was put together by me for selfish reason I wanted somewhere in the city where I could practice but it has not quiet worked out that way as I tend to be busy with beginners and no time to practice. As a APGAI instructor I felt that I needed a place to continue my own development. Like any technical sport if you want to be good at it or develop you need to practice and mix with like minded people my own experience makes me believe that you cannot fish and practice casting at the same time and I need practice.
Milngavie Fly Dressers is the constituted body, the constitution is essential for the council to agree to make the venue available we than purchased insurance cover at their request.
I had no idea how the project would develop but it has been successful. We have thought about intruducing some structure when we started we had demos etc and later we went off in groups starters, intermediate but that did not seem to work so I now tend to focus on beginners. Blair was there this week and turned out to be a great pupil and speaking to his grandad I am certain that he will be back.
Maybe we should have a meeting before the summer is out to discuss how we progress and move forward and find out what people actually want from it. Part of the reason for clubs success I think is its informality. Without doubt there is loads that we could do and develop ie. beginners classes, filming (i would like that for myself), guest casters, advanced classes, tackle comparisons, competitions and I am sure others will have ideas
Alberto
Well if I lived closer I'd join.
Alberto it's great to see a genuine APGAI instructor on here. Makes a fine change from the SANA / SGAIC / GAIC riff raff we are used to. :D
By the way Peter / Magnus / Allan et al that was a joke ..................... :crap
Quote from: admin on August 22, 2009, 09:02:33 PM
By the way Peter / Magnus / Allan et al that was a joke ..................... :crap
Ah but we are a much higher class of riff raff
Quoteif anyone is interested in messing around with the idea, being filmed etc, or just figure out the best way to do it we could have a go thursday.
I have filmed Harelug and myself a few times. It is a reat tool for fault diagnosis. Correcting your faults is the hard bit :)
I found it best to get the sun shining (always a tricky one, that :)) on to a dark background - I used a wooded railway embankment as a backdrop and of course use brightly coloured line for practice and filming purposes.
Alex
Quote from: zoomer on August 23, 2009, 09:52:56 PM
Alberto, and this may interest others actually,
some weeks ago i filmed scotty9 learning to cast, we played it back on my laptop so he could see himself and burnt a disc in the car, it was an experiment to find out if film could help, we only did it that once, i pm'd scotty there to ask if it helped because im convinced there is a way of making the camera work for this, scottys response...
''Yeah it did, confidence booster! Let me see i could actually make proper loops. Now if i could diagnose faults from it, it would be awesome!''
So fault diagnosis is where im at, maybe, but if anyone is interested in messing around with the idea, being filmed etc, or just figure out the best way to do it we could have a go thursday.
To give a wee bit of background on this for anyone wondering the positives of video:
When i ventured to the casting club for the first time i had a tailing loop problem. We had real difficulty finding the problem and more importantly fixing it but Andrew Toft managed to sort me out! It was the week after that i got video and it was a huge confidence booster seeing proper loops from the side. Going from tailing loops to seeing that was brilliant. Now i feel my loop control is so much better and now i'm trying to work on distance technique (not for fishing purposes!) and seeing video of when it breaks down would be ideal. Also taking time to work on accuracy now, really want to be hitting a small target every time.
Quote from: Ardbeg on August 23, 2009, 11:14:49 PM
I've no problem with that, it's the big targets I cannae get :D.
It would be interesting to get some of these videos on the forum guys.
cheers
Ardbeg
I think we all have that problem eh?! :D Was trying a rod out with buzz and he placed a fag packet about 50ft or thereabouts and it was an eye opener to my accuracy trying to place the fly on it. It's not difficult to get it in say a 3ft area all round but the pin-point accuracy that may catch that fish is difficult!
There's a VERY cunning idea in the pipeline you will hopefully find really interesting.
Quoteas a benchmark of good action, im going to film andrew casting(he doesnt know this yet ) then zoom into the arm action that makes the cast, it will be interesting for forum members to see a pro casters cast but more interesting to see and compare arm actions that the cast results from, worth a try anyway.
An excellent idea Alan.
Alex
Quote from: zoomer on August 24, 2009, 01:22:09 AM
and er...your first :lol:
:shock: :shock: Help.
Alex
Brill idea. I'd like to analyse my casting... not sure how I feel about you lot analysing it though :shock:
Gettin' rid of my bad habits will be a real challenge, and if you manage it my wife will surely come to the next club meet with a list of my other habits she'd like to take a look at! :lol:
Guys, is it on sundays now? On this sunday?
The thought was that we would start to try and get along on sundays, starting this week from 9am -midday day. I will get ther after my run possible by 10.30. Next Thursday if the weather is ok we will also try to get there
Alberto
Alberto
I think most of the guy,s will be turning up next Thursday.
Alan and I will be at Knightswood on Sunday. I would avoid wearing blue or green if you turn up. Either that or wear a stab vest :)
Alex
Can't make it but will be there the weeks after that, don't expect a large turnout with the football on :shock:
Quote from: scotty9 on October 02, 2009, 11:40:32 PM
Can't make it but will be there the weeks after that, don't expect a large turnout with the football on :shock:
Should see you next week then Scott. If you wear the specs, you'll see us too :)
Football? I thought Rangers were playing Celtic :lol:
Alex
Will have to try and get down when the seasons over,will it be on going over the winter :?:
Chris
Quote from: lnelson20 on October 02, 2009, 11:57:14 PM
Will have to try and get down when the seasons over,will it be on going over the winter :?:
Chris
I think that's the intention, Chris. It depends on numbers (and for me the condition of the grayling rivers), I suppose. Looking forward to meeting you.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on October 03, 2009, 12:05:08 AM
I think that's the intention, Chris. It depends on numbers (and for me the condition of the grayling rivers), I suppose. Looking forward to meeting you.
Alex
Me too Alex,being almost exclusively a loch fisher i tend to get away with a standard approach when it comes to casting,it would do me no harm learning a bit more from more profficient casters.
Chris.
hi guys
good luck and great idea i agree with alan im not too sure guys will be willing to get out thier bed for a 09:00 start on a sunday a bit later start might be better for more off a turnout
Quote from: windknot on October 03, 2009, 03:32:57 AM
hi guys
good luck and great idea i agree with alan im not too sure guys will be willing to get out thier bed for a 09:00 start on a sunday a bit later start might be better for more off a turnout
Agreed, but the cooncil has only given us use of the water to midday on Sundays, which is when the neds usually surface anyway :). On the other hand, I don't suppose there is anything to stop us using a nearby grassy area after midday.
alex
Quote from: haresear on October 03, 2009, 02:06:14 PM
Agreed, but the cooncil has only given us use of the water to midday on Sundays, which is when the neds usually surface anyway :). On the other hand, I don't suppose there is anything to stop us using a nearby grassy area after midday.
alex
Acting on grass as individuals, not as club. Don't see a problem myself :D
You have to wonder why on earth they feel it neccessary to place time restrictions on a pond that is used for nothing but a bin for the neds? :shock:
Alex when do you expect to be there till? Met Alan today, he wasn't sure what the timings were.
QuoteAlex when do you expect to be there till? Met Alan today, he wasn't sure what the timings were.
I'll probably have to head off around 12 or 1pm
Alex
Quote from: Alan on October 03, 2009, 09:22:19 PM
i think the pond gets used/booked by that other popular out door activity, model boat sailing.
How sad is that? :lol:
Alex
if you cant beat them join them
why dont we get model boat men to cruise thier boats about the pond an we take take them out with heavy beaded flies now that would be casting practice we could score points for how many strikes we get just like battle ship na after another couple off beers this might be a good idea okay got it feeder rods with 3oz leads now that would be fun aye i know you lot are to resposible for that but a bet you wish you could okay back to the grass have you tried thinking of another venue might be an option
Is this still going guys? Have not seen much posted about it for a while.
Fred,
Yes it is I've been down about 4 times over the last two months and was there on Sunday morning introducing one of the guys from the River Leven who was wanting to try out a few rods. It's one of the great advantages of the club - you can wander up to someone have a natter and tryout their set up. In fact it's (almost) expected.
Last week was quiet because of the weather (and two regulars were off passing instrutor exams) but with the help of Gasman on this forum we had Martin set up with a dozen rod/line combinations and disabused him of the notions that "expensive - good" and "very expensive = perfect"!
It's been a real eye opener for me. I'm a totally self taught fisherman but watching the way that Alex, Alan and Alberto amongst others cast and manipulate line has been brilliant. I'm sure it'll put more fish on my flies next season.
In the nature of these things you always learn more than you teach.
Malcolm
Excellent Malcolm. You guys are certainly fortunate, there is nothing remotely like it up in this neck of the woods.
These things have to be regular, varied and reliable to be of any real benefit and it looks like that is exactly what you have there.
QuoteIn the nature of these things you always learn more than you teach.
Very true Malcolm. At the GCC, apart from speaking to, casting with and learning from the likes of sublime casters like Andrew Toft, I've been asked quite searching questions from your good self among others. These have had me thinking hard on the day and trying to solve problems by putting myself in a fishing situation rather than on a park pond. Interesting stuff and to me, much more challenging than casting to the moon (I still fall into that trap too, of course). :)
We shouldn't forget that at the end of the day, the whole point is to present a fly to a fish in such a way that the fish is likely to be deceived. The fish doesn't give a toss which cast is used.
Batten down the hatches for tomorrow :shock:
Alex
Quote from: Malcolm on October 31, 2009, 10:17:27 PM
Fred,
Yes it is I've been down about 4 times over the last two months and was there on Sunday morning introducing one of the guys from the River Leven who was wanting to try out a few rods. It's one of the great advantages of the club - you can wander up to someone have a natter and tryout their set up. In fact it's (almost) expected.
Last week was quiet because of the weather (and two regulars were off passing instrutor exams) but with the help of Gasman on this forum we had Martin set up with a dozen rod/line combinations and disabused him of the notions that "expensive - good" and "very expensive = perfect"!
It's been a real eye opener for me. I'm a totally self taught fisherman but watching the way that Alex, Alan and Alberto amongst others cast and manipulate line has been brilliant. I'm sure it'll put more fish on my flies next season.
In the nature of these things you always learn more than you teach.
Malcolm
I woosed out of the rain last week, think i'll venture out tomorrow though! :D
One great thing about Malcolm is the fact that there is no impossible casting situation. I have never met someone who is so keen to work out how to catch the impossible fish. His thoughts on these matters are simply brilliant. Listening to your fishing experiences and problems is incredibly educational and down right enjoying in trying to work out a way around it. Malcolm you need to give yourself credit for the casting club too.....It's amazing the amount of knowledge that's on tap at the casting club!
Quote from: Alan on November 08, 2009, 12:24:22 AM
who's going tomorrow?
I'd love to Alan, but spending a few hours with you and Alex is not worth the 7 hour round trip. :D
I think the weather will be fine tomorrow anyway, so have a good one.
Just you and me Alan. Sad bastards :) I'll bet those swans put up a fair scrap. Bring some white polyyarn :)
Alex
Quote from: haresear on November 08, 2009, 01:36:03 AM
Bring some white polyyarn :)
Far better to use that old reliable bread crust imitation pattern "The Mother's Pride"
Works well for stockie 'bows too I'm told................... :D
Well? How'd it go?
Did you softie west coast guys wimp-out because of the cold? :makefun
I had a wee spell myself today, the line was freezing to the grass, just ever so slightly. Terrific for roll casts ........ :D
Aye how was it?
I was at remembrance day activities. Are we heading next week with the double handers :shock: :lol:
I enjoyed myself and listening to Peter Anderson talk about casting is a revelation. He is so direct and puts things so simply. Brilliant.
The long day came at a price though. I'm not at all popular at home.
It was good to meet another forumite today in the shape of the Urbanflyfisher, Aliferste.
Alex
I assumed there would be loads of "hot chicks" watching the fly casting action - its got to be the coolest thing happening in Glasgow :lol: I suppose the groupies will get in the way after a while though :roll:
Norm
Quote from: Clan Ford on November 08, 2009, 10:04:10 PM
- its got to be the coolest thing happening in Glasgow :lol:
it's got to be better than watching the old firm anyway.............. :D
I'm all for hot chicks but going by the general talent i've seen around knightswood, i aint going near any with a barge pole! :lol:
Geometric casting, i like it! I thought you guys would have heard over to see Peter, thought about coming over in the afternoon but nursing the hangover from last night and then a bit of fishing this evening won in the end! Will see you guys next week but i'll likely be hungover to hell :8)
Some photo's of the lovely weather at last Sunday's casting club.
Sorry forgot these as well.
And here are some that where taken today. :santa;
Thanks Gary. I now see Alan's point about my headgear :lol:
Alex
Quote from: haresear on December 20, 2009, 04:53:15 PM
Thanks Gary. I now see Alan's point about my headgear :lol:
Alex
Santa's littel helper or is it a Hobbit ? :makefun
Some more from today. There was a fair bit of daftness going on...Here's Alan casting with the tip section (18 inches) of a 3/4 weight
[attachimg=1]
Then 36 inches
[attachimg=2]
Then Scotty doing a highland fling
[attachimg=3]
and finally the audience
[attachimg=4]
I know we'll be open to some ....erm.... comments :P but it was very interesting trying casting with 18 inches and 36 inches of carbon. It was possible to get very reasonable casts but the timing was so critical. Scotty picked the timing up quite quickly and was putting out 50 foot casts with 18 inches almost immediately and Alan became quite partial to a 36 inch rod! At 54 inches it starts behaving like a normal rod again. Strangely Casting short lines is really difficult with short sections.
Brilliant Garry and Malcolm! And Alan's video :D
Quote from: Alan on December 20, 2009, 05:58:17 PM
Malcolm, we need to set a top two sections distance record, yours is the one to beat, what was your official distance for the records?
I beat it at home tonight but my top two sections are considerably longer! (72'') :makefun
Pm on it's way
Quote from: Alan on December 20, 2009, 06:15:26 PM
Malcolms 2 section challenge has to go live...
any members out there want to place bets on how far half a rod can cast?
I'll go for full 90' line.
What kind of sad mad bastards go out practising fly casting in sub zero temperatures, ice and snow? :lol:
I think I'm going to have to incorporate some kind of IQ test, or sanity evaluation questionnaire into the registration process for this forum.
Don't worry, it won't be retrospective. :lol:
Quote from: haresear on December 20, 2009, 04:53:15 PM
Thanks Gary. I now see Alan's point about my headgear :lol:
Alex
If you filled that hat Alex point is very appropriate. :D
Mad sods out in that weather.
Ian
Quote from: Alan on December 20, 2009, 06:15:26 PM
Malcolms 2 section challenge has to go live...
any members out there want to place bets on how far half a rod can cast?
Alan!
Best cast with 36 inches of 3/4 weight? Now that is just too geeky even for sad mad bastards! :gay4
Fred,
jealous?
Jealous? me?
Naw, I was programming today...................... :roll: :D
Gasman.
I really like the way you went forward in time to get the first two casting club meetings of next year into this years posts :crap :)
(Check the date on the pics :makefun )
Quote from: fishtales on December 20, 2009, 09:34:52 PM
Gasman.
I really like the way you went forward in time to get the first two casting club meetings of next year into this years posts :crap :)
(Check the date on the pics :makefun )
He did arrive in a Tardis Sandy :) By the way I know why it is Gasman. He almost gasses us every time the engine reluctantly fires up.
We are indeed developing into sad, mad, geeks. Fishing is fine in those conditions, obviously, but just casting? Still beats Christmas shopping though.. Thank feck for Amazon.
Alex
No more coffee for you Alex :makefun.As for the van it is in need of a service. Thanks for spotting the wrong date's on the photo,s. Thank You Gary :)
Quote from: Alan on December 20, 2009, 06:15:26 PM
Malcolms 2 section challenge has to go live...
any members out there want to place bets on how far half a rod can cast?
UI saw a couple of casters having a shootout of the top section of a Sage @ 90' then one went for that wee bit and the tip ended up as a two piece.
Quote from: rabbitangler on December 21, 2009, 03:46:47 PM
UI saw a couple of casters having a shootout of the top section of a Sage @ 90' then one went for that wee bit and the tip ended up as a two piece.
That's brilliant! Also goes to show the lifetime warranty does have it's uses! :lol:
It was very interesting and forces really good timing. The wee rod in question was an old, very soft actioned, 5 piece, 7.5 ft 3/4 weight and we were playing about with an AFTM 3 line.
I did measure out a cast with the full rod at just under 80 feet so it was surprising that with just the tip 3ft we could cast not far short of that.
Separate from this: one of the things which interested me more was just how good the older slower actioned rods are at casting to targets at normal fishing ranges.
The normal river fishing range to me would be 30 to 50 feet. That means once you deduct the length of the rod and leader than there will be between 10 and 30 feet of line beyond the tip ring. At that range I personally find the modern fast actioned rod very difficult to use.
This is probably because I don't possess one so my casting stroke doesn't suit fast actioned rods at close range, all my rods are very slow actioned by current standards.
Gasman had an older Abu rod that even underlined cast these "river fishing distances" with a great deal of authority and accuracy without any fuss. When I tried to do the same with a much more modern and much faster rod I had some difficulty achieving the effortless cast and turnover. The more modern rod was splendid to use at longer distances.
It does raise the question: when you try out a rod do you spend most of your trialling attempting to cast the distance you would fish with that rod or would you attempt to cast much further than that? It seems to me that if we are trying out a river rod that most of the trial should be with between 10 and 40 ft of line beyond the tip ring. Anything further would be unusual - for me anyway. A 4 weight that can deliver a nymph perfectly at 70 feet may not be ideal at shorter distances.
Malcolm
Very good post Malcolm.
As you say it really depends on the rods use as to how you should trial it. I'm looking at getting a new rod as i have friends flying out to the states on hogmany so cheap rods here we come! I am actually tempted to buy an all out casting rod since the rod I have at the moment is lovely to fish with.
Go for it Scotty, I've been exploiting holidaymakers for years! And Alan, that's just about the most cynical post I've read for ages... roll over Fred, you've got competition! :lol:
Quote from: Alan on December 22, 2009, 10:22:33 PM
your right, my appologies, its my age, maybe i should get a stiff one :lol:
Is that possible at your age? :makefun
Apologies for that, now to get back to the serious stuff. I've been reading around a fair few places and the tcr seems popular by a lot of anglers on a NZ forum. It's also without question the most common distance tool. Although the Hardy Angel TE2 is getting a stonking write up by a few of the distance chaps, they say it's the tool for the job if it wasn't so prone to breakages.
Hi Guys
Just purchased an 7ft Fladen Vantage Wt 4 for ?21.00 it would go with Gasmans suite or Alan,s ladies soleplates that he wears to the ponds.
Malc
Quote from: Alan on December 24, 2009, 03:09:46 PM
my bargain 'womens' salopettes burst when i sat down, my arse is officially to big in them :gay4
Hahaha, you were so proud of them too! :lol:
So how many of you sad bastards will be out casting today them ............................. :makefun
Quote from: admin on December 25, 2009, 11:38:38 AM
So how many of you sad bastards will be out casting today them ............................. :makefun
Not me anyway. Sunday is a possibility - maybe
Alex
I am up for this sunday. :hat2;
Quote from: Alan on December 25, 2009, 04:18:07 PM
im bringing my new 26inch distance rod....if its finished in time that is..
I'll bring an #8 Fladen to try out and also the Echo MPR with a proper line on it. I can see Malcolm buying one of the latter for those awkward spots on the Endrick.
Alex
QuoteEcho MPR
No idea what you were talking about Alex so I googled.
http://www.stsflyfishing.com/cumbrian-fly-fishing-pages/steve-rajeff-micro-practice-fly-rod.html
Why did I not know about this little gem BEFORE Christmas?
Brilliant
Alan
Quote from: alancrob on December 26, 2009, 12:31:25 AM
No idea what you were talking about Alex so I googled.
http://www.stsflyfishing.com/cumbrian-fly-fishing-pages/steve-rajeff-micro-practice-fly-rod.html
Why did I not know about this little gem BEFORE Christmas?
Brilliant
Alan
It is a great wee thing for practice Alan. You can really fine tune your roll casts with it and all the other curves and stuff. The Wulff Fly O is a pile of shite in comparison.
Alex
Alex, is that the one Magnus has ?
Quote from: admin on December 26, 2009, 10:30:33 AM
Alex, is that the one Magnus has ?
I don't know Fred. The MPR is hollow carbon and behaves like a proper fly rod. The Wulff one is just a piece of solid fibreglass. It behaves like a sea fishing boat rod.
Alex
That looks interesting. Can it be used as a rod Alex? I don't think it would be much use in the Endrick or fruin where normally a very heavy fly would be used but I know a little stream where an ultra short rod would be a great advantage.
Was out tip casting today. With my technique anyway there seems to be a big limit on the distance you can achieve with a 4 piece rod tip. Two sections however will blast the entire line out. My logic is you need the stiffer 'butt' section. Took some videos but they haven't come out well, the light was fading so the line is hard to see in places. Will try get some video of folks tomorrow!
Quote from: Malcolm on December 26, 2009, 03:08:46 PM
That looks interesting. Can it be used as a rod Alex? I don't think it would be much use in the Endrick or fruin where normally a very heavy fly would be used but I know a little stream where an ultra short rod would be a great advantage.
I'm sure it could be used as a rod Malcolm. I usually have it with me, so have a look next time we meet.
Alex
Quote from: Ardbeg on December 27, 2009, 10:38:49 PM
Cheers Alan,
maybe not overly suitable for my wee hovel. It might prove useful putting on the kettle from the living room though :D
Ardbeg
It seems to work very well outdoors too. You could use it in your driveway for example, as long as you don't mind funny looks from the neighbours! I'm very tempted by one - playing with it briefly today the visual(ness) of it when practising curves is amazing! Just what i need actually!
Quote from: Ardbeg on December 27, 2009, 07:15:36 PM
What is the smallest room this will be of use in Alex? I like the idea of this for the boys (and me)
Ardbeg
For overhead casting Steve, all I can say is you need a bigger room than an ex cooncil hoose in Cambuslang.
I would guess at 20' plus, but for roll casting you can get away with less.
I just read Alan's post and he seems to agree withe 20' guesstimate. I was doing curve cast around a lampost with it today, no doubt to the amusement of the drivers in Knightswood. I reckon it could be useful for filming/demonstrating stuff.
Alex
We were out standing in the cold today trying to do a peaceful piece of filming and some ned came along to interrupt.... Then an 8wt fladen tried to kill Alex.
Video quality didn't come out well today hence nae more casting videos. Hopefully find out what was causing the problem.
Yer fecken mad !!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
[attachimg=1]
:makefun :makefun :makefun
Brilliant :lol: And yes, we are!
Quote from: Ardbeg on December 29, 2009, 12:00:00 AM
Cheers for the extra info Alex, it still might be of benefit as I've a half decent sized garden with lots of obstacles for added authenticity.
Cheers
Ardbeg
Steve, I'll bring the MPR along to to the Murthly grayling stravaig and if you can't make it, I'll give it to Bandy to pass on to you. I won't need it during February and early March as I'll be closer to the Esk in NZ than the Scottish rivers :D
It could be a useful teaching tool (with a bit of tweaking) and is very visual. Not worth the money, but what is?
Alex
Is the Glasgow casting club on this Sunday? :8)
Gary.
Quote from: gasman on January 03, 2010, 02:02:28 AM
Is the Glasgow casting club on this Sunday? :8)
Gary.
Aye, we're just as daft as you :lol:
Alex
Thank God I have got to get away from my kids for a couple of hours. :freeked
Gary.
Quote from: gasman on January 03, 2010, 02:21:45 AM
Thank God I have got to get away from my kids for a couple of hours. :freeked
Gary.
At least you have an excuse Gary, I'm just off my heid :lol:
Alex
The pond was a sheet of ice today, so I foolishly suggested we might be as well to head up to the rugby/ice hockey pitch to avoid the chance of hooking a gritter on the backcast.
As it turned out, we had to take it in turns to be on ice watch and free each others the leaders and trapped yarn from the icy clutches of the pitch. Maybe the ice pond would have been better.
I discovered that a #6 Orvis Helios tip-flex is not for me. A bit of a bummer really, seeing as how I?ve just bought it. Still, I should recoup my money.
The other big discovery of the day was that bringing out a measuring tape can firstly, screw up peoples' heads and result in poor casting. It can however also result in a determination to improve, with a resultant improvement in technique and subsequently in distance achieved.
Now Scotty, Alan and I can quite comfortably (in good conditions) cast a full 90? line and a bit. Add on the leader and that sounds like 100? plus. Wrong :(
When the tape measure is laid out, collective muscles are flexed and technique goes out the window. The back cast is all over the place (you really see this from a head-on view) and we try to keep more line in the air than we should. We all know the theory, but we ignore it until the tapemeister tells us we are scheidt.
Scotty and I managed to get casts over 90? eventually. Modesty forbids me disclosing who got the longest of the day at 96?, but on each of these long casts, it has to be said that the presentation was crap, with the yarn landing in a pile of nylon.
Malcolm meanwhile joined in, but was just looking at presentation rather than distance. He was getting up to around 77' without really trying to bust a gut.
This is when Alan had a brainwave. He is quite smart at this teaching stuff, which comes in handy, what with him being a teacher and that.
He comes in to about 40? and asks us (Scotty and I) to present a fly. We did, perfectly. He moved back a couple of yards and we got perfect presentation again.
In about 20 minutes, we were presenting the fly nicely at 80?, with the yarn landing at the end of a straight leader. A wee change from what was happening an hour before, with the yarn landing in a tangle of nylon. We were concentrating on technique and accuracy. A bit like a Brazilian striker?s controlled shot on goal versus a Scottish defenders blooter up the park.
The moral of this tale is that, if you want to be a better all-round caster, it is useful to accurately measure your casts. This might bring it home to you that your technique is not as good as you think it is. Distance casting is to my mind, pretty much divorced from real fishing, but the pursuit of distance for the sake of distance definitely helps to hone technique and thus leads to better all round line control, which can?t really harm your chances next time you are fishing.
Despite all the above I do still prefer the practising of accuracy and spey/roll and curvy casts. More my cup of tea and very relevant to the fishing I do.
Alex
Great post Alex.
Without a shadow of a doubt the minute the tape came out my casting was by far in a way the worst. And really quite a stark difference to 20mins earlier. There really was nothing good about it, terrible tracking, awful line tension, pish loop (ha! what loop!). Now picking a target and really concentrating on presentation, what a difference - we stopped at 80' but in all seriousness they were fishable casts (not in the real world but if you had somewhere big enough....). I thought a really worthwhile exercise and one i will no doubt do again, it should definitely sharpen technique, nice one Alan!
Now i'm craving some water, i've got real casts to perfect - for 2 and a half months time! :shock:
That's an interesting conclusion to your tests.
I arrived very late as usual after deciding that heading out on the river for my Sunday morning 16km rowing session wasn't the best idea (woose!) and left before the lesson of the day was finished.
However, the more I go along and try more gear out the more I am convinced that, for me, older slower rods ideal. All this marvellously precise very high tech gear around and the rod I feel most at home with is Gasman's 5 weight super slow Daiwa Whisker. It is just right.
However watching the way the others cast into the next valley with the Helios and various Sages (the dead still air and cold conditions meant they were a good 10-15 ft down on where I normally see them cast to) it is clear we're not all built the same.
Try before you buy in other words.
That's my lesson for the day!
QuoteJust a thought Alex, but do the rods react differently given the sub-zero temperatures you are casting in?
It might be worth while trying again with the Helios when the temperature has risen a little.
Then again, I could be talking pish Laughing
Aye, Steve, pish :lol:
Alan has a #5 Helios and I like it. It coped just fine in the conditions and I preferred casting Alan's rod to mine. It is a nicer rod, or it just suits my style.
I always will prefer to cast a #5 against a #6 and I prefer a #4 to both of those, so you can see that I'm always going to be biased towards the lower end of the AFTM scale.
As a control experiment and as an alternative to the tippy Helios, I set up my Sage XP #6 (more of a mid to tip) and felt much more in control. I like a rod to be a fishing rod and not primarily a casting rod. It just goes to show that one man's meat is another man's poison.
Another small :) thing to consider is that Scott's Shaky cost 35 quid against my Sage at about 560 quid.
:?
Speaking to Peter Anderson the other week, he said "rods don't matter. You can cast with anything". Peter is a bit em..forthright, but he is worth listening to.
Alex
Allan sorry to bust your bubble, but there is not a hope in hell of you putting a sharskin line on my
Daiwa Whisker :makefun
Can anyone on the forum please give me any history of this fly rod please.
How many forum members still on Daiwa fly rods and do you still use them ?
Thanks Gary :8)
Daiwa Whisker WF98 10' 3 piece. Used them since they first appeared, I am on my second :)
I don't know where i stand on soft rods, they just take too long to do things IMO. Now not all are the same obviously! The nicest i've tried is Malcom's hardy, not super soft but definitely not a stiff rod...
I played with Alberto's TCR on Wednesday and all i'm saying is the results spoke for themself. Suit my casting stroke? Looks like it. It's not that hard to adapt to any rod but the stiffer/fast rod is what i'm most comfortable with i think. I've gone from hating these rods to really liking them :shock: Got one coming from America :8)
Gary - try the sharkskin, it's a serious eye opener! It's bloody fantastic!
Quote from: fishtales on January 04, 2010, 02:28:13 PM
Daiwa Whisker WF98 10' 3 piece. Used them since they first appeared, I am on my second :)
Just when did they first appear ?
I would like put an age to the fly rod. I am thinking about 20-25years.
Or am i way off.
Thanks Gary :8)
Col do you still have this rod and do you still use it? :8)
Thanks Gary.
WF98 that will be 1998 then, these were the Whisker Fly :)
The previous ones were CF96, 1996, which were the Carbon Fly. I think it was one of these I started with when I went to Daiwa after I broke my 10' 3 piece Shakespeare.
Memory isn't so good. Maybe Highlander can add some more to this.
So the whisker is about 12 years old . I do like this rod . It is a true joy to cast. I have not fished with it yet, but looking forward to this :D
The thought of braken this rod would piss me of big time so i am trying to find spares just in case.
Thanks Gary
Fishtales how do you brake you rod and how easy do you replace it?
Too long ago to remember :) I think it was strapped to my rucksack and I either slipped and fell or dropped the rucksack and the rod was sticking out below and the top three inches broke. I now carry the rod all the time. If I slip it goes one way as I go the other :) I always have my rod permanently strung, as the Americans say, but broken down for easier carrying.
To replace it I went into Cafaro's wiggled a few rods about a bit and settled on a Daiwa glass rod, can't remember the model. Did the same when I upgraded that to the CF96 and the WF98 that followed. I will probably do the same with the next rod I get. I did buy a 9'6" 7# four piece off eBay that is a nice rod but I only use it as a backup and has only been out of the bag once :)
It is a green blank. This is it.
[attachimg=1]
I had a 9' CF96 #5/6 until it broke unexpectedly at Loch Voil after years of use. I replaced it with a WF98 model taking a #4-6. I still have that one , I think. It is great for playing fish on.
I have had a WF98 9'6'' #6/7 (now at the bottom of Loch Sionascaig), a WF98 10' taking a #6-8, a WF98 11'3" taking a #5/7 (sold both of these) and a 15' WF98 taking about a #10/11. I still have the salmon rod.
Alex
I have a couple of whisker flies, I think Magnus has them actually. Nice relaxing rods for loch style short lining from the boat. Far too floppy and heavy for much else IMO certainly compared the rods I use now anyway.
Alex the WF98 #4-6 is there anyway you could bring this to the casting club on sunday ?
Thanks Gary :8)
I don't see anything at all surprising in any of that Alan. Under-lining or over-lining a rod and adjusting your casting accordingly. :?
QuoteAlex the WF98 #4-6 is there anyway you could bring this to the casting club on sunday ?
Gary, I'll have a look in the
tackle shop loft :)
I may not be there on Sunday if the grayling day at Newtyle goes ahead. I think a late pitch inspection might be in order for that, given the weather.
Alex
Just wacthed the waether forecast there not to good. That would great Alex.
I am curios about how an older rod made in the 1990 compairs to todays rods
What action does the rod have?
Thanks Gary. :8)
QuoteWhat action does the rod have?
I'd call it a full flex, or through action, but not floppy.
It bends through to the butt when playing a fish. A great wee rod for letting quite modestly sized fish show their fighting spirit.
If I'm there next week Gary, I'll bring a selection of light rods to play with.
Alex
Gary, how old is your whisker?
Same age as him surely :crap
I think the rod is about 12-15 years old if the dates that fishtales has given 1996-98 :shock:
Sorry Alex that would great to try you old rods out.
And as for age how cares :makefun
I am the proud owner of an 11 foot #6-8 Daiwa Amorphous Whisker Osprey complete with extension butt. I must have used this rod, my only one, for about 15 years and loved (still love) it. It's a bit on the heavy side (known to my friends and I affectionately as "the beast"), but as a loch-style rod IMHO it was superb (see attached pic with a wee troot fae up north). I "upgraded" to an Orvis rod a couple of seasons ago and while it's a nice enough rod, and a good deal lighter, it does seem to lack the oomph of the beast. I always thought of it as a mid to tip action rod, not that I know much about such things.
I also had a Daiwa prior to this, that was trully through actioned/floppy and I think may be the Whisker type to which you refer. It's 10 foot #6-8 (minus the top couple of inches which I snapped off in post-catch excitement walking back up the bank). If this is indeed what you're after, you can have it in exchange for a 5 minute lesson at one of your casting club meets! I don't think I could ever part with 'the beast' though.
Tweed, you (and all) are welcome to come along to the casting club. It is a pity we can't use the water at present, due to people walking with their kids :shock: and playing ice-football on it. Casting off ice and snow is worse than casting on grass. No chance of a roll cast and no friction/surface tension to start loading the rod.
I should sell rods rather than acquire them, but you are very welcome to a lesson. Just as long as I don't have to cast "the beast" or arm wrestle with you :)
Alex
Quote from: haresear on January 04, 2010, 10:57:57 PM
Tweed, you (and all) are welcome to come along to the casting club. It is a pity we can't use the water at present, due to people walking with their kids :shock: and playing ice-football on it. Casting off ice and snow is worse than casting on grass. No chance of a roll cast and no friction/surface tension to start loading the rod.
I should sell rods rather than acquire them, but you are very welcome to a lesson. Just as long as I don't have to cast "the beast" or arm wrestle with you :)
Alex
I was standing in my front garden this afternoon practising that bastard 90 degree curve.....that Borger fellow has a lot to answer for! Found he has a simple alternative to the corkscrew, he calls it the inverse v curve i think. Didn't manage it! Though i did get one corkscrew!! Watching his videos its obvious im going wrong.
Was hoping to get onto some water tomorrow but i'm ill, again. Remember i said i was feeling a bit dodgy on sunday...?
AH - this is what i actually meant to say. In my garden there's aout 6'' of soft, powdery snow. You can cast off that, the line sinks enough if you switch or spey cast.
Glasgow casting club has relocated to Scotty's front garden :lol:
Hope you are feeling better soon Scott.
Alex
Sorry to here that Scotty .Get a hot toddy .
Cheers guys, hopefully feel better tomorrow but i have my doubts :( Enjoy the snow casting folks!
Quote from: haresear on January 04, 2010, 10:57:57 PM
Just as long as I don't have to cast "the beast" or arm wrestle with you :)
Alex
I'm pretty sure you'd be safe on both counts :lol:
Seriously though, would be quite keen to come along at some point - maybe once the weather gets above freezing . . .
Quote from: Tweed on January 05, 2010, 10:21:51 AM
I'm pretty sure you'd be safe on both counts :lol:
Seriously though, would be quite keen to come along at some point - maybe once the weather gets above freezing . . .
I think that would be quite sensible!
Quoteim hoping all will exercise a degree of retraint and make the girl feel welcome without getting saliva on her Laughing
:P :lol:
Alex
Alan will you be doing your mating dance. :makefun
Knowing Debs she will give as good as she gets, verbally of course. :D
Ian
Quote from: Alan on January 15, 2010, 01:14:13 AM
There are a few new comers to the casting club coming over the next couple of weeks, one of them is female, im hoping all will exercise a degree of retraint and make the girl feel welcome without getting saliva on her :lol:
One Girl...multiple rods...I saw a video like that once :shock:
I took a slight detour past the pond today. It's not quite so icebound and the council chaps are out throwing salt around the edges and smashing the ice at the side of the pond.
Quote from: Malcolm on January 15, 2010, 03:22:10 PM
I took a slight detour past the pond today. It's not quite so icebound and the council chaps are out throwing salt around the edges and smashing the ice at the side of the pond.
Good, I'm yearning to cast on water again. As a confirmed roll-caster you must be suffering withdrawal symptoms too Malcolm.
Alex
The accuracy challenge is good, better when there was three targets out. Then you can work up the distances and not just pick up and lay down (not that that is easy! :lol:) And Gasman will you please do us all a favour and get some bigger targets!
I?m full of admiration for you guys, it seems to be a very successful and active casting club you have got going there.
There appears to be a real determination to keep it going on a regular basis that is essential if it is to be of any genuine worth.
There is nothing at all like it our in our area and that may be because most ?trout fishing? is done in small, artificially stocked ponds where only the most rudimentary skills are required for success.
I hope you can keep the momentum going; your infectious enthusiasm can only be a good thing and I?m very happy our forum is helping to spread the infection! :D
If you want to say......then say!
Alan has nailed it as to why there is success. It has turned into a social scene as well obviously, people come along and chat and do some casting. They do their own thing and know they can ask if they have a question. At one point on Sunday, Alex was off teaching the young lad, Alan was at the other end teaching another newcomer, i went off to teach one of the guys to double haul and the chaps left were casting together, enjoying themselves i presume! It's the relaxed nature that's the big thing IMO!
Demos start again this week, miss it at your peril! :lol: Important starting point in individual development hopefully!
Should also say my reasons for going - originally it was to learn to cast properly so i could leave the frustrations of not having a clue what you're doing behind. Now i have a genuine interest in fly casting, both to help others and develop my skill as far as possible. It's also a good laugh too!
There were a few weeks when the bad weather threatened to disrupt things, but I think we have only had to cancel for one day since May last year.
The members as Alan says, are what holds the thing together. Well done to all who turn out, come rain or shine.
Alan, Scotty and I had a long discussion afterwards about how to keep the club going forward. It is quite difficult to get round everybody and make best use of our time. For example I didn't get around to talking to Adam or Aweman at all this week and felt bad about it, so Gasman, Aweman, Malcolm, Paulr, Deergravy, Riverchatter and any other forum members I've missed out, feel free to make suggestions. Tell us what you want by PM or on here and we'll do our best to help.
Alex
Yup, it sounds really great guys. It looks like you have the diversity and have tapped into real local enthusiasm. Other than the salmon guys, of which there are many, genuine fly fishers, who don?t spend most of their time on the fake stockie ponds are pretty thin on the ground up here. It?s very rare to meet one on the river, which is great in some ways of course :8), but also quite sad in others.
Quote from: admin on January 18, 2010, 09:55:25 PM
Yup, it sounds really great guys. It looks like you have the diversity and have tapped into real local enthusiasm. Other than the salmon guys, of which there are many, genuine fly fishers, who don?t spend most of their time on the fake stockie ponds are pretty thin on the ground up here. It?s very rare to meet one on the river, which is great in some ways of course :8), but also quite sad in others.
You know Fred, most of the guys at the club have either expressed an interest in trying river fishing, or have recently been fishing rivers. It is quite refreshing. Most of us are no spring chickens mind.
Alex
Alex,
To be fair I suppose it has to be remembered that access to trout fishing on our local river, the Don, can be very expensive, restrictive as a result of the way the PO is run by the overseeing authority and the better value water is a long way from anywhere. Any youngster wishing to take up fly fishing may feel pretty restricted where he or she can go or even afford to go, so perhaps it?s not surprising the stew ponds are popular, although for an unaccompanied youngster even this would not be easy. It does not bode well for future skill levels.
It's a good club and you've conveniently chosen a place on my way home on Sunday mornings! I have wondered about having the odd session at a river not too far away as a change of scene.
One of the things I like is that there are often new people to meet, some whom I haven't met for years - like Alberto and Aweman, new casts to try and new tackle to try. I'm absolutely sure some people have saved a small fortune by coming along then buying Fladen vantages. I tried Aweman's 7ft #3 this week (with a #4). Wonderful. The bugger asked for it back.
Also tried a Helios #6 (great roll casting rod - totally effortless the way it chucks a line), Sage TCR #5 (no comment), Scott E2 (lovely), Scotty's Loop and in the meantime I saw my Harrison 3 weight when I put it together and again when I put it in the car. Get the picture?
I'll try and get down this Sunday - not picked up a rod since Crask, and I'm getting twitchy..
Any of you tried the Danish Casting Game?
Sort of like crazy golf for fly rods, would take a wee bit of setting up, and you need a decent sized patch of grass, but it's good fun and a nice change.
Dave
I think the Danish casting games certainly look interesting and would be good fun, but are maybe a wee bit involved and dare I say it aimed at advanced casters. On the other hand, something like that might just be the catalyst to spur some people on to the next level.
http://www.washingtoncouncilfff.org/NWFCE2006DanishCastingGames.htm
Alex
Dave the Danish Casting games are top notch but maybe a scope too far for a "main event". Count my ass in though if anyone is willing to set it up and compete :8)
Hello to all the Glasgow casting club.
I am in the dug house with shmbo because I was late back from the casting club.
I have another challenge for this sunday.
I hope to see you all this Sunday.
Kind regards
Gary :hat2;
Quote from: Alan on January 19, 2010, 05:36:18 PM
is there a beginners version of the danish casting thing? a few were a bit nervous about the last gassman challenge, im thinking it should encourage learners rather than us trying to beat each other, rather like the idea of a regular gasman challenge, its got a ring to it.
ill lay on danish stroodles for winners :lol:
Er duh! You just make it easier! Or look at Carlos's casting games that i sent you.
Bear in mind the whole idea behind the danish casting games is for more advanced casters to practice and get refinement through competition. You need a score. And when you next do it your score will reflect whether you are better, worse or the same.
IMO for these style of casting games you need enough knowledge and ability in your basic stroke to be able to chop and change your cast. How many without understanding of a cast can through a curve around a cone and place their fly in a ring? (I'm not saying I can but i know how, completely different! :lol: :lol: :lol:)
QuoteIMO for these style of casting games you need enough knowledge and ability in your basic stroke to be able to chop and change your cast. How many without understanding of a cast can through a curve around a cone and place their fly in a ring? (I'm not saying I can but i know how, completely different! Laughing Laughing Laughing)
Quotets not much fun for beginners seeing good casters doing these things, i think it should be more of a confidence building thing, they need to have a chance of winning, we can always do it after they have gone of course.
Although this will be fun for some, it will be pointless and in fact dispiriting for others. I suggest we let gasman set "gasman's challenge of the week" and take it from there (if you are ok with that Gary? :))
I'm not sure the more complex casting games should be taking place during "club time" either. I would suggest that it could be an added-on thing - or a separate day altogether.
Shall we discuss by PM? or is this of any interest to anyone else?
Alex
Alan - hence why in the PM i said: after :D
I'll send the next bit in PM, not for public view!
Just wait until Sunday and bring your camera. :8)
Gary
I've had a go at the Danish Casting Games, really enjoyed it.
I don't think it's as intimidating as one might think. Most of the stations are at short range, so you don't need to be able to cast for miles to have a good shot at it - just as well in my case.
Best not to take the scoring too seriously and just have a bit of fun pissing around with fancy presentations.
Hopefully, if you're struggling to, for example, curve a cast round at 90 degrees, someone will be there to help you.
Having targets to aim at makes it more fun and effective, I think.
Not something you could realistically do on a casual basis down at the pond, but I'd recommend setting it up somewhere, sometime...
Like Alex says, maybe an add-on or a seperate event.
But I don't think it's necessarily only for advanced casters - anyone could pick up a few wee tricks which might actually work in real fishing situations
I'm more than happy to muck in with setting it out.
Ardbeg, will see what I can do if you're actually wanting an insight into the world of the casting club!
Just to echo Alan's comments:
Demonstration is on the Foundation Casting Stroke
Please do NOT set up rods before the demonstration. There is a very important reason behind this that should help gain a fuller understanding and improved learning.
It's difficult Alan, the instructors do a terrific job pulling the whole thing together and instructing at various levels but it's like teaching everyone from primary 1 to first year university students!
Maybe trite, but I think it will work for those who are interested in the lesson of the day.
There are groups. For everyone there is a social element. Apart from that
1. The teachers - who also like to learn and test tackle
2. Beginners and improvers interested in the basics
3. Competent casters of various levels who aren't teachers but interested in improving or learning new things
...and of course the double handers who do their own thing for the most part. With a club like this all of these groups have to be happy - including the teachers
Quote from: Alan on January 20, 2010, 12:42:36 AM
there is just not enough time to help everyone, we have tried groups and various other things and never quite got it right,
How about using the Norman Tebbit "get on your bike" approach?
In this case it would involve bringing in some instructors from up this way where there is less demand. :lol:
Quote from: Malcolm on January 20, 2010, 11:11:56 AM
It's difficult Alan, the instructors do a terrific job pulling the whole thing together and instructing at various levels but it's like teaching everyone from primary 1 to first year university students!
Maybe trite, but I think it will work for those who are interested in the lesson of the day.
There are groups. For everyone there is a social element. Apart from that
1. The teachers - who also like to learn and test tackle
2. Beginners and improvers interested in the basics
3. Competent casters of various levels who aren't teachers but interested in improving or learning new things
...and of course the double handers who do their own thing for the most part. With a club like this all of these groups have to be happy - including the teachers
I reckon perhaps Alan and I should back off on the practising ourselves until "after hours" and concentrate on helping others.
As Malcolm has said, there is a wide range of abilities and experience at the club. Our natural tendency is to welcome and try to help any new faces, particularly beginners. The trouble is, this is quite time consuming and I tend to leave the old faces to their own devices, which is a pity.
Still, I suppose it is after all a casting
club and not really intended to be a platform or substitute for, formal one to one casting instruction, so maybe Alan is on the right track when he suggests a more disciplined approach to us (Alan and I) splitting our time between members. This could be varied according to the numbers of people who turn up.
Alan tells me to expect a cast (no pun intended) of biblical proportions this week :shock:
Alex
As i mentioned earlier in PM, before trying to decide what to do. It needs to be worked out what the desired outcome is?
People must realise they will not get a one to one lesson but a friendly environment in which to pick up tips, practice and improve through a multitude of sources.
The main strength of the casting club is bringing knowledge from various sources together. I said this last sunday but I am now firmly of the belief that being able to ask 5 people the same question and taking a mix of reponses and taking from that what you want is by far the quickest method of learning.
I wonder if the success of the casting club might be, at least in part, similar to why our forum is so successful? By that I mean is it because what you see is what you get? Completely non commercial, no motives other than sharing experience and knowledge. Neither exist, even in part, to promote a business: no tackle sales, promoting commercial fisheries, selling advertising etc; no one tries to sell anyone anything.
Total purity of purpose. :D
Yep definitely sure that's part of it Fred!
It's also where the main problem arises from in regard to instructors willing to devote time to individuals. It's always going to be a compromise. Instruction by it's nature is commercial and the casting club is a step in the right direction of making it purely about advancement of the sport not commercially driven. It's difficult and there needs to be a care not to stretch the teachers too far!
Now that i've got that out the way, I should add I'm more than happy to help out anyone at the casting club! I'm not completely cynical!
It's a pity Magnus was not a bit closer. No instructor is more generous with his time and knowledge. Travelling from Banff to Glasgow is a bit of an ask though even for one so enthusiastic! :D
Today was most enjoyable at the casting club I found the recap of last weeks lesson followed on by Alan,s demo on hauling most enjoyable.
I am sure if the instructors keep to the agenda of the lesson we will all be casting full fly lines by the start of the season.
The gasman challenge is there for anyone that wants to participate
Well done lads
Malc
Sounds like you all enjoyed yourselves :D
Quotealso gasman is right, casting to targets is the quickest way to learn how to judge distances and get instinctively good at presentation at all distances, its also way better than sky casting.
Absolutely spot on.
Quotewhen the hell did gasman learn to double haul?
Well done Gary, it's like riding a bike...only with your hands :?
Alex
Quote from: Alan on January 31, 2010, 11:42:38 PM
also come to the conclusion that 75' is the furthest distance that anyone can achieve presentation beyond that they talk pish, scott taught me this and im humbled but also hate him now :lol: casting further is in the realms of 'sporting achievement' or the odd stoat out in hope.
Sounds like a good day Alan.
At the risk of sounding like a pompous prat, can I suggest that the statement above isn't wholly correct without qualification? It's true enough in calm conditions and for me with the usual very light tackle it's a moot point as I can't cast much further anyway. However:
1. In a tail/cross-tail wind by roll casting high (much more effective than overhead casting in a stiff tail wind as the wind can't interfere with the back cast to the same extent) the wind will carry out the line beautifully and land it very gently at distance. A couple of us carried out a series of tests a couple of months ago where we measured everything and in the big tail wind the "fly" always landed beautifully at extreme distance. I'll show you if I manage to get down in the next couple of weeks.
2. "Presenting" needn't always mean that the fly lands like a piece of feather attached to gossamer. At times the important thing is to get the fly in the general area. Scottish conditions can be very forgiving of a less than perfect cast!
Malcolm
Malcolm,
I had a lesson with Andrew Toft on saturday and one of the things we learning to become smoother to cast a "distance" of 75'. In reality this is not far in reltion to power needed. After a bit of tinkering made to my stroke it was amazing just how easy and smooth you can be. There was no wind then but any further and a straight leader with say a dry fly using a 5wt line is beyond my capability and I imagine damned difficult for anyone with a 5wt.
The wind issue is a big one, sunday was a wee bit windy and into the wind I could not turn it over properly into the wind. However I made one cast when the others went for a coffee, downwind into the backing and it turned over perfectly due to the wind. Wind conditions play a big part!
The 75' mark is bang on my limit of "acceptable dry fly" presentation with a #5 line. Sure I can cast much further but i'd scare everything within a half mile.
And finally your point on presentation is bang on, I got caught out by "dry fly presentation" on sexyloops when asked to explain good presentation. It could be plopping a beetle onto the surface for example. Really opened my narrow mindedness that one.
Quote from: Alan on February 01, 2010, 02:04:53 PM
i was in a bad mood last night with the total acceptance of myths on another forum, claims of 100' casts etc,
Don't be too hard on them it may just be they have 100mm, fully extended knobs, are insecure and have an unusual desire for recognition :D
WHB I can't say I have but the minute a shooting head is involved my interest disappears. My interest a 'normal' fly line. At the moment standard WF or DT but I will be playing with the long belly WF soon. Need to stop trying to cast at distances, once my assessment is over and done with I'll go back to it :lol:
Quote from: Alan on February 01, 2010, 08:20:04 PM
WTB, i cut a hardy DT in half once and used mono as running line, out of 10 casts only one didnt tangle the one cast that went, went miles but it was truly horrible to use.
I've got a 13 yard AFTM13 head with Amnesia running line upstairs somewhere. I'll guarantee you'll join the 50 yard club (like the mile high club for casting instructors) with that and that delicate wee rod I brought down a couple of months ago.
Sorry Alan about the demo :( also when the hell did gasman learn to double haul?
1. Attend Glasgow Casting Club.
2.Daiwa Whisker + DT4.( Timing )
3.Casting to targets.
All the best,
Gary :mrgreen:
Gassman
Doint forget the tune that you use when hauling.
Malc
I had one of my very short and sporadic visits to the casting club today. Pulling out my usual 3/4 weight 7.5ft rod. Alan shouted accross - "don't set that up yet I've got a rod for you to try".
It's one of the great things about the casting club - there's always a new rod or line to try - and everyone is generous with tackle and time.
This one was unusual; an old 10.5 ft split cane. Now I like split cane in short river rods up to about 8ft or so but this was something else. It makes one appreciate the sheer choice we have today. Don't get me wrong. It cast very well in the windy conditions but the idea of sitting in a boat for a day with something of that weight would certainly give pause for thought.
If anyone feels they could do with a wee bit of muscle building, then a cane rod is the way to go! :shock: I'm still feeling slighting scared after my two minutes with that rod! Good to have tried a cane rod though, very interesting.
Casting with a long cane rod is a very different experience for those of us who weren't brought up in the cane era. The short modern cane rods are superb but with the long old ones there are some things which are simply impossible, the rod doesn't react quickly enough. On the other hand they are very tolerant of underlining. Yesterday we had a 5 weight line on a rod which was a 7 or 8 weight and even in the wind it cast short distances with much more authority and with greater ease than carbon rod. There is also the timing aspect!
I don't think the longer single handed cane rods have any place in modern fishing. However if I discover some long lost inheritance due to me I would buy a 7ft 9 top class cane rod very quickly indeed.
Alan
If you like to try out the cane i can give you some numbers, However if you would wear your SANA hat I would do it for you for nothing
Malc
You obviously.
me obviously....i think :lol:
sorry about that :roll:
Quote from: Alan on February 13, 2010, 09:14:40 PM
some time ago i thought if i got a Sana hat i would no longer need to get the cakes :roll:
here is an idea... whoever looses the gasman challenge gets the cakes the following week??
Need a good scoring system and an honest referee :makefun
ok ill get the cakes then :lol:
Quote from: scotty9 on February 13, 2010, 09:21:42 PM
Need a good scoring system and an honest referee :makefun
ok ill get the cakes then :lol:
Alan - me get cakes? Nae f*ckin chance! :lol:
Cheapskate? CHEAPSKATE? I'm not the one that drinks the coffee.... :D Now who's the cheapskate!
Good lession today at the casting club some of the more experienced casters were unable to produce tailing loops on demand why was this any thoughts
P.S No one asked me I can do them every time.
Malc
Quote from: aweman on February 14, 2010, 05:28:40 PM
Good lession today at the casting club some of the more experienced casters were unable to produce tailing loops on demand why was this any thoughts
P.S No one asked me I can do them every time.
Malc
Excuse me, i did it first time! :D
It's because as you practice and get better you do everything you can to totally eliminate tailing loops. They have absolutely no use apart from maybe one use for slack line if you really want to dig to find a use. At least you can find a use for other 'faults'! Once you have a solid casting stroke you don't throw tailing loops.
^^^ Ah! That makes some sense. Some days I have to stop fishing as I start making tailing loops with almost every cast. So maybe I should shorten up my casts and concentrate on crisper stops and tighten up my sloppy loops instead of trying for extra distance?
Quote from: aweman on February 14, 2010, 05:28:40 PM
more experienced casters
With euphemisms like that ever thought about entering politics!
Hands up from me, I'm the guilty party. It is very difficult trying to unpick a lifetimes habits. Creating tailing loops deliberately is beyond me I'm afraid. Thoughts of becoming a fishing instructor are receding into the distance.
Quote from: Guddler on February 14, 2010, 07:25:31 PM
^^^ Ah! That makes some sense. Some days I have to stop fishing as I start making tailing loops with almost every cast. So maybe I should shorten up my casts and concentrate on crisper stops and tighten up my sloppy loops instead of trying for extra distance?
Really hard to give advice on that without seeing your cast. There's a fair few different causes of tails, impossible to tell you what is causing them without seeing the cast.
Malcolm - here's some easy ways:
Just bang the rod instead of casting it, thump is in a really short stroke. Use too small an arc for the rod bend.
Aim the backcast very high and the forward cast very high.
Finish the haul too soon.
These will have you tailing in no time!
Target practice today was good fun.
Alberto gave Aweman and myself a demo on mend casting, I will have to work at that.
How did you get on with Awemans rod ?
All the best ,
Gary :8)
How about the Clyde ?
The van is fine, as long as it gets us to Barra for two weeks at Easter I will be happy.
all the best,
Gary :8)
There is a nice stretch of bank at the Whitecart where it runs into the Clyde. I may be able to obtain permission for us to use it.
malc
I thought you did not drink ? :makefun
Nothing wrong with some rain, just get you duck suit on. :makefun
all the best,
Gary. :8)
I recommended a cheap wee burn rod to Bandy Catcher last week: the Fladen Vantage 7ft 3 weight as the best cheap wee rod I've cast with.
Today Aweman was kind enough to let me have his today to try again.
This time I tried it to find out it's limitations. It had a 4 weight line on it today and it was bitterly cold and windy. First things first - it didn't start to feel right until about 20 ft of line is beyond the tip ring. Not really surprising. It felt to me at it's best between 25 and 40 ft or so. It would cast further but I think that is where it will be best. It roll cast and overhead cast just fine. It's definitely a better casting rod than some I've tried that are much more expensive. For a wee river rod for those that don't have much call for a more expensive rod it's great. Ideal for children too I would think. They cost less than ?25! Maybe some others from the casting club who have tried it would like to comment too?
Try it with a #4 or #5 weight line John. It sounds to me as if it needs a bit more weight to work it at short distances which you will get in the bigger sizes.
Certainly carbon fibre isn't the best material for shortlining in my view (or it may be just me).
A very few carbon rods seem to cope with ultra short lines otherwise it's just a case of using a heavier line. I was using a glass rod on Sunday very flexible and great for short and medium distance but a bit heavier and less authoritative at distance.
I had a silk one at one time and I think the tapered cast was the taper.
Here's a photo of Alan,Aweman and Malcolm with the Fladen 7 feet 3#.
The rod was over-lined with a Snowbee xs 4# f.w.f,but it did not feel right to me.
Would like to try it with a 4dt.
I have had the Fladen 8 feet 4# but the rod would not work with 4#, put a 5#on much better.
I also had the Fladen 9 feet 5# again this rod would not look at the 5#. Ended up having to put a 7# on
to make that rod work.
All the best,
Gary :8)
Most impressive level of commitment at the casting club today, we had a WFF member travel all the way from fife to the casting club! Good effort Dave! Hopefully you got out of it what you were looking for, try out a whole load of different rods, get some casting advice etc. For the record you're one of the fastest learners I've seen...... I think we caused Dave a bit of information overload!
so you folks do this every Sunday morning? - I've got 2 daughters now settled in Glasgow and Airdrie and we are sometimes down from the North visiting...would be interesting to take a turn by....see you're speaking about 7' 3# - Igot one through my son-in-law - who was working in the G.A.C.at the time last year or so- Wychwood variety - lovely little thing....the grandson took to it straight away....I have normally no need for such tackle hereabouts but made me think of looking for opportunities
Quote from: tenfootfive on March 14, 2010, 09:18:36 PM
so you folks do this every Sunday morning? - I've got 2 daughters now settled in Glasgow and Airdrie and we are sometimes down from the North visiting...would be interesting to take a turn by....see you're speaking about 7' 3# - Igot one through my son-in-law - who was working in the G.A.C.at the time last year or so- Wychwood variety - lovely little thing....the grandson took to it straight away....I have normally no need for such tackle hereabouts but made me think of looking for opportunities
Yep mostly. It's worth posting when you are coming though and what you are after so the right people are there! Perfect example was today Dave came along and I brought a few 5 weights, Malcolm brought a great selection of bigger boat rods and smaller rods but if Alex had been there, Dave could have tried numerous other 5s and 6s! People take days off to do other things obviously. Numbers will probably start to drop as the season starts....
Just make a post when you are planning on coming along and what you want out of it!
Quote from: scotty9 on March 14, 2010, 09:27:39 PM
Yep mostly. It's worth posting when you are coming though and what you are after so the right people are there! Perfect example was today Dave came along and I brought a few 5 weights, Malcolm brought a great selection of bigger boat rods and smaller rods but if Alex had been there, Dave could have tried numerous other 5s and 6s! People take days off to do other things obviously. Numbers will probably start to drop as the season starts....
Just make a post when you are planning on coming along and what you want out of it!
Thank you and congrats on your elevation...I had a cast at Wolfclyde this time last season for the first time since I was wee[50 years ago]...and my grandfather was a bailiff there...and watched Patrick Proctor..and pal casting at targets and god knows what else...conversation was limited...is that what you had to do?......... Casting off both shoulders comfy is to me the most important thing
It was good to meet Dave today. There was a blustery wind blowing which made it more difficult but Scott did a great job anyway. I can't see myself being there very often during the season unless the evening sessions start again.
Quote from: tenfootfive on March 14, 2010, 10:58:05 PM
Thank you and congrats on your elevation...I had a cast at Wolfclyde this time last season for the first time since I was wee[50 years ago]...and my grandfather was a bailiff there...and watched Patrick Proctor..and pal casting at targets and god knows what else...conversation was limited...is that what you had to do?......... Casting off both shoulders comfy is to me the most important thing
Thanks :D
Yeah accuracy was one of the tasks, strangely especially since it was rather windy, it turned out being one of my best performed tasks on the day! Accuracy becomes remarkably easy once you devote a bit of time to it and use your brain! First time I did accuracy at casting club it was a disaster, now I'd be confident of putting the fly onto any target.
Casting off both shoulders - that's a good one, you've picked out a skill that's actually useful! :D I'm sure you'll be able to get taught how to do it easy.
Malcolm - I guess evening sessions will start again when clocks go forward? I'm itching to go fishing too!
Thankfully, casting off both shoulders is something I am comfy with- thru luck and experience...but I reckon its no2 basic skill to aquire from the boat perspective
Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone at casting club for making me feel welcome. I'd like to thank Scott and Malcolm for going to the trouble of bringing down some rods for me to try and both Scott and Alan for their help with my casting. I feel like I'm on the right track now :D
Well, not Glasgow and not even a casting club - no such thing up here - but for the first time since mid December our field is snow-free and I managed 1/2 hour casting when I got home from work!
Using my old Nielsen Powerflex #4 / #5 9 foot, concentrating on my stops (aye Alex, especially on the forward cast :lol:) and it was casting beautifully, great "feel".
Think I may give the Sage a wee rest and use the Nielsen for a while.
Next thing will be practising casting through hoops to improve loop control.
Fred - good effort! Stop being a lightweight though and get out in the snow next time!
Quote from: scotty9 on March 16, 2010, 08:00:05 PM
Fred - good effort! Stop being a lightweight though and get out in the snow next time!
Sorry Scott, but that's not snow in your picture. That's just a spilled tin of whitewash. Snow starts at 2 feet up here, we consider anything less as a mere dusting of hoar. :D
:D Good point! The deepest here was around a foot (not at time of picture!) but one thing I did notice is that you can roll cast in soft snow, the line sinks just enough to provide a wee bit of resistance :8)
so here is the question...what are the things people want to learn? is it just casting further and hauling?
1. Over Head Cast
2. Roll Cast
3. Shooting Line
4.Double Haul
5.Casting Off both-sides
6.Change of Diertion cast
7.Mending Line
First hour on the water stop for coffee, then move over to the grass.
All the best,
Gary
Aerial mends and single handed spey casting are what's needed to look cool :8)
John - if accuracy is what you're after, forget about hauling! Keep the variables minimised and therefore what can go wrong to a minimum! Hauling helps greatly with line control but I don't haul for accuracy.First time I tried casting at targets I was hauling, it was terrible....
Usually when we cast the line goes in a straight line, assuming everything went properly during the cast! :lol: I know you fish on rivers so drag is the obvious enemy, aerial mends are just you changing the shape of the line in the air after the forward stop. Movements of the rod tip after the stop, to create slack line. Also great for casting around obstacles! A wiggle cast (making a series of wiggles) is actually a series of aerial mends. You probably use aerial mends already - if you lower the rod tip before everything has straightened to pile the leader a bit, in theory that's a mend!
You should come down, you won't embarrass yourself. I think you would be really surprised about the informal nature. You get what you want out of it, no-ones going to say anything about your casting. Everyone is there for the same thing!
Hope that helps a bit, or have I made things worse? :lol:
Quote from: Bandy Catcher on March 17, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
Ocht, someday I'll maybe come down to Glasgow and embarrass myself. :lol:
John
Aye do that John, we can go to the Casting Club, slag them all off, tangle up their fancy gear, fish the kelvin,then go to the pub :D
Once I've finished untangling my gear, can I come along? :lol:
Quote from: Bandy Catcher on March 17, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
Thanks Scotty
It's funny that I don't really know the right questions to ask, shows how little I know. Sometimes I struggle with the terminology you guys use too - for example, I don't have a clue what an aerial mend is or why you would want to use it.
Ocht, someday I'll maybe come down to Glasgow and embarrass myself. :lol:
John
John,
I was in exactly the same position never having had a lesson, I didn't have a clue about terminology (and still don't). It's a great way to learn new things and a great place to work out ideas. Sometimes just a word can trigger a whole new thought process. Alex showed me how to do aerial mends with the rod in an upright position - before that I could only throw curves with the rod parallel to the water. Alan gave me an idea about how to present the fly at long distance. In fact I have been helped by most of the regulars in one way or another. Well worth coming through for.
Malcolm
Quote from: scotty9 on March 17, 2010, 01:11:16 PM
Once I've finished untangling my gear, can I come along? :lol:
Of course, but you'd better bring ID for the pub :wink:
Quote from: scotty9 on March 17, 2010, 12:09:15 PM
First time I tried casting at targets I was hauling, it was terrible....
The main problem I have with casting at targets on the grass is it encourages me to follow through on the forward cast - i.e. point the rod at the target opening up the loop. This is a problem many self taught caster have, I see it often, and it's hard to overcome. It can make for splashy presentation on water. This is not just a problem I have with targets on grass, I have seen it discussed on Sexyloops too. It's just something to be aware of.
Interesting Fred, I know exactly the problem you describe. I discussed this at length with Andrew Toft, when false casting you stop the rod very positively, sending a tight loop at the target. Now if you deliver that cast, it generally crashes into the ground rather than turning over. Some people do crash the fly in accuracy but obviously that's useless for fishing!
He says to rotate the rod slightly further on the delivery forward cast to prevent this - works for me too. I would have thought that by opening the loop you prevent the line crashing into the ground? Do you mean following through without making a positive stop? Or after the stop?
Quote from: scotty9 on March 17, 2010, 02:15:49 PM
Do you mean following through without making a positive stop?
yes, or better - stopping when pointed at the target - i.e. using a much wider arc in the delivery phase. A 40 year habit that is hard to break. Alex gets onto me about it all the time. :lol:
Aha! Got you now. Try casting at a target 20' and see what you're arm wants you to do. I bet everybody trying this for the first time will lunge their arm forward. The stop is so crucial, especially with less than a metre of fly line outside the tip. It's a worthwhile exercise actually!
Quote from: admin on March 17, 2010, 02:11:01 PM
The main problem I have with casting at targets on the grass is it encourages me to follow through on the forward cast - i.e. point the rod at the target opening up the loop. This is a problem many self taught caster have, I see it often, and it's hard to overcome. It can make for splashy presentation on water. This is not just a problem I have with targets on grass, I have seen it discussed on Sexyloops too. It's just something to be aware of.
Fred, I got this one from Sexyloops. Try casting through a vertical hoop suspended say 2 feet off the ground. You are trying to cast your fly, whole leader and the tip of your line through the hoop from about 25 feet away. Once you have the hang of this, try it again from further back.
This will get you focused on getting a tight loop (you will have to stop the rod crisply) and altering your trajectory according to the distance cast. It is described as a short range exercise, but I think it would useful for teaching someone to cast into the wind too.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on March 17, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
i cant visualise this, you could try 'pop and drop' aka peter anderson, the pop cast 3' above the target produces the loop and the drop takes the power out, for accuracy the should hover above the target..when fishing you hover well short of the fish though and shoot a wee bit on the final cast,
the final presentation will allways use less force than the false cast though, sometimes almost decelerating in the second half of the stroke, or am i picking it up wrong?
No that's fine - the big distinction is fishing accuracy and target accuracy. Need to make sure you practice delicacy to targets. Also want to lengthen line each time, not start with a predetermined length ala the assessment. One thing about letting it drop is wind plays havoc :D
I agree.
Also - they invented gentleman's clubs for people your age :makefun
Quote from: Alan on March 17, 2010, 11:41:31 PM
never saw the point in gentlemans clubs, nae burds, bunch of old poofs i reckon :lol: anyway belonging costs money,
What this tells me Alan is that you are not married or in a relationship that commits you to lengthy periods in the company of females Females that impose unrealistic expectations on you, for example that you behave in a civilised manner while in her company and accept that your default behaviour is unnaceptable and the activities that you naturally gravite towards are pointless and a distraction from you responsibilities. Stravaiging, drinking malt, puffin' cigars, scratching your testicals and farting in public come to mind. And yes I am married! :x
Second that! If only someone had told me, it's all so different before the shackles are bound! Ach, the grass is always greener, eh? :lol:
Seems a while since Alberto's name cropped up in a casting club context; has he moved on?
Quote from: admin on March 18, 2010, 11:56:10 AM
Seems a while since Alberto's name cropped up in a casting club context; has he moved on?
No he's still around. Alberto just seems to have been very busy - the gaia meet, his fly dressing club, the indoor casting club etc.
From a few weeks ago, i remember some dude taking photos:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=561&p=207102&hilit=fly#p207102
For the record I am not in them before any starts getting ideas about who I am! :lol: Nor Alan or Alex. The picture of Andrew with the orange line is pretty good though!
Quote from: scotty9 on March 18, 2010, 09:49:57 PM
For the record I am not in them before any starts getting ideas about who I am! :lol: Nor Alan or Alex. The picture of Andrew with the orange line is pretty good though!
...but that's you with the dodgy haircut in the tight jeans and buckles.... :dunno
Quote from: paulr on March 18, 2010, 11:22:55 PM
...but that's you with the dodgy haircut in the tight jeans and buckles.... :dunno
Bollox I was just about to say the same thing Paul...admit Scotty don't be shy...have you got skin tight waders as well :shock:
Wish I hadn't posted that now! :lol:
I love some skinny jeans and some buckles. They make me look good when i'm walking. If anyone can find skin tight waders, i might be interested. But they must be designer :gay4
Quote from: Ardbeg on March 19, 2010, 12:28:26 AM
[attachimg=1]
:dunno
Ardbeg
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Classic.
Alex
I noticed the child catcher from chitty chitty bang bang is in the photos on the last page !!
quality
Interesting trying out Jim's (Teither) double handed shooting head outfit today. Very interesting as I've never used a shooting head outfit on a salmon rod before. Some advice from Jim and both Alex and I were putting out very decent casts in a short time.
I enjoyed my flirtation with the double hander, courtesy of some great advice from Teither. I've never been very good (crap actually) with the big rod, but Teither gave me some good tips. Thanks Jim, but that shooting head flattered my casting.
Alan and I stayed for hours after everyone finished and I set up some hoops and cones. We were practising accuracy and other stuff until about 5pm or later. Some of it was quite divorced from reality (we came up with "the radiator" which is more like a majorette's trick than a cast - think it was all the hula hoops that did it) but mostly it was really interesting.
Highlight of the day was seeing Malcolm hanging upside down like fruit bat from a cherry tree. He was retrieving someones "fly". The low point was when Ii cast the tip off Vicky's rod. As there was no hook on, I had to wet-wade up past my knees in very cold water to gallantly retrieve the section. By late afternoon I was freezing.
Alex
Malcolm, Alan, Alex
My pleezhur surs, and thanks for your kind comments. Shooting head lines still need to be cast and managed , Alex. They don't put themselves out .. and it's easy to get them wrong ! So I rather fancy that good skills and long experience are well connected and you two guys have plenty of both. I think that's the real reason why you both moved in a few casts from feeling uncomfortable to putting good line out handsomely !
And, Alan, I think you are spot on re Iain Kirk. He has been splendidly generous to all [ especially the big rod guys ] with his advice and his time since first coming down last summer. I certainly owe him a lot for the help he has given me, which built and reinforced the same basic principles that Alberto and Gary Scott both impressed on me the first night I ever brought a rod along to Knightswood. I couldnae cast for toffee at that time. If there has been some improvement over time that has been down, I think, to the help from these three guys and practising the lessons given and sometimes even learned. Iain has his APGAI practical exam this Friday, so let's wish him well in that.
Teither
Quotesaw some good casting today, teither especially, i think Ian should get some credit for the double hander progress, the big rods never gets a mention on here.
Alan, why is it that you can say these things so succinctly on here and take two hours to say the same thing in the flesh? :) More seriously, I agree with what you say about Ian and the DH guys generally. They deserve our thanks.
Today, Ian shouted over a real novice with the single hand rod to have a go with the DH. Now Ian is a ghillie for Dunkeld House on the Tay. He probably spends half his time showing people who can't cast how to cast and the other half harling devons and kynochs. Despite that, he drives a long way to teach for free and to practice casting. I take my hat off to the guy.
John the lawyer spends the morning getting people out of jail (literally) and the late morning casting and helping.
Teither is usually first there. He knows I'm out of my comfort zone with a DH rod, so he cajoles me into expanding into that area.
Sometimes I think the whole thing is a waste of time, but then I see Adam double hauling, when he couldn't before. Scott going from novice to instructor in about 9 months :shock: (bastard).
Teither's comment sums it up beautifully...
Quotewith his advice and his time since first coming down last summer. I certainly owe him a lot for the help he has given me, which built and reinforced the same basic principles that Alberto and Gary Scott both impressed on me the first night I ever brought a rod along to Knightswood. I couldnae cast for toffee at that time. If there has been some improvement over time that has been down, I think, to the help from these three guys and practising the lessons given and sometimes even learned. Iain has his APGAI practical exam this Friday, so let's wish him well in that.
For all you guys who have not been to the GCC, the club affair is certainly not slick. It can't be, because we don't know who is turning up each week. It is clunky and slow and unstructured, but I reckon every week I come away with a wee bit more knowledge or at least something to think about.
Alex
Alex, Jim, Alan - I agree totally with the credit to others. In fact really everyone needs credit as if there wasn't "everyone" there wouldn't be anything! For beginners - they got tuition. For me - I got everything :D But on that theme as well, instructors got the pupils to present problems and help increase instructors knowledge by having to work through it, sometimes in groups!
Take me when I turned up for example, I had a real, sorry..... REAL casting problem. The perfect tailing loop and hope the guys don't mind me saying but all of the instructors at the time could not fix it. It wasn't till Andrew Toft came along that he and the others eventually managed to get it sorted. So I bet through that kind of thing it helped everyone concerned.
And Alex's last paragraph is definitely bang on!
Are the perthshire nuts still coming this week?
The demonstration shall be on casting in winds. You'll understand why if you check the forecast, at least it's to be sunny! :lol:
Oops made a mistake, sunny in coatbridge, glasgow has to have a rain shower or two. Light showers apparently.
No worries, someone will be on cakes....(ALAN! :D)
Would be good to meet you and the others if you do make it.
What time are we meeting considering the clocks are jumping forward? Just the normal time?
Quote from: scotty9 on March 27, 2010, 01:37:00 PM
No worries, someone will be on cakes....(ALAN! :D)
Would be good to meet you and the others if you do make it.
What time are we meeting considering the clocks are jumping forward? Just the normal time?
Aye Scott. I'll try for 9am and will probably fail to arrive until 9.30 as usual.
Sorry Bandy and Ardbeg can't make it. Maybe next time.
Alex
Look forward to meeting you sometime in the future John! I apologise for my use of the word "nut" :lol:
Alex - you know I don't have a hope in making anything around 9 unless I go to bed now! I'll try for 10ish! It's gonna be windy! :shock:
Quote from: Ardbeg on March 28, 2010, 03:13:39 AM
Nice to feel wanted Scott :makefun
Ardbeg
:shock: Sorry! I could have sworn I mentioned you both when I wrote that, must have been too busy eating my dinner! I apologise for that also!
Didn't miss much today, very windy. Made for some interesting casting styles!
I would be interested as well John and Steve, if needed I could also take the works van, might be a bit tight in the front two passenger seats but I get charged pennies for mileage, can't remember how much exactly but it's no more than 15p a mile and it would also save running mileage up on a private car. Would need to have some notice so I could clean up the front seats of paperwork and to find the not so funny smell of puke I have so far failed to locate. God knows my casting could do with some serious help and it would give me a chance to meet two gus I am going to bug so much about the Ericht :D
cheers
darren
Feet, puke? Sounds like one heck of a trip :lol:
I won't be there this week or next, just booked up to head to switzerland for some skiing! At least I get to escape this minging weather that seems to be coming to us.
Booked up for Switzerland Scotty? Then it's off to NZ! Who says a student loan doesn't go very far. :lol:
Just a quick update to say that Mr Kirk was successful on Sunday
Teither
Thankfully I'm not paying John :lol:
Brilliant Jim, thanks for the update. Completely forgot to ask him today!
Quote from: Teither on March 30, 2010, 12:12:32 AM
Just a quick update to say that Mr Kirk was successful on Sunday
Teither
Thanks Jim, he deserved it.
Alex
John there has been talk of it happening in the next couple of weeks, once it's a wee bit lighter and this pishy weather clears up a bit. It would be a thursday evening starting around 6.30-7 and lasting till whenever people go home, usually as it darkens down a bit, at least that's what it was like last summer.
Somone will post when it changed for definit I am sure.
Asked Alberto about that on Sunday and he said the first Thursday after Easter,but will post to
confirm times and date.
Gary :lol:
I've recently been going to the Milngavie Fly Tying club on a Thursday night, and occasionally turning up at the casting club on a Sunday. Looks like I'll have to give the casting club a miss till early May if it moves to a Thurs
Will one day mean the other is " out " ? I intend doing both, starting tomorrow !
Teither
Now that I think about it, i'm sure it was on both a Thursday & Sunday last Summer. But i'm sure someone will be on shortly to clarify matters :D
The lease from the cooncil was for Sunday mornings as well as Thursday evenings, but I think I would rather be fishing on Sundays to be honest :), so I'll be switching to Thursdays only.
Alex
Alex,
Undoubtedly a better option you're going for there. I'm so used to salmon fishing rules I'd blocked the Sunday fishing issue from my mind. My Teith ticket doesn't allow it. Where else is Sunday fishing allowed ?
J
Quote from: Teither on April 01, 2010, 12:24:59 AM
Alex,
Undoubtedly a better option you're going for there. I'm so used to salmon fishing rules I'd blocked the Sunday fishing issue from my mind. My Teith ticket doesn't allow it. Where else is Sunday fishing allowed ?
J
Jim, talking of Sunday trout fishing on rivers, the UCAPA ticket lets you fish a lot of the Clyde on Sundays. The Avon AC (Lanarkshire) is another decent option, although sizewise the fish are not in the same class as the Clyde. Don't forget the Tay/Tummel system either for more quality trout fishing.
Alex
Alex
Thanks for that. I hadn't realised that the Clyde ticket permitted Sundays. I remember from last year that Lamington didn't.
J
I went over to the pond today. I left quite early and didn't see anyone else. Conditions were far from ideal with cold, strong winds making casting a very difficult proposition. The water level was well up to the footpath and the swans were in fine fighting form.
A few fish were showing but nothing to write home about.
I believe the Thursday night sessions will start officially a fortnight from now. We may get better sport then , if the weather turns a bit kinder.
Teither
QuoteA few fish were showing but nothing to write home about.
You are aff yer heid Jim :lol: :lol:
Fair play to you, out there practising on your own without the security that numbers can bring.
You have inspired/infected me with this double-hander lark. I found myself looking at salmon fishing sites tonight. It's all your fault for making me leave my troot comfort zone. :lol:
I'll be on the banks of the Tay at Birnam (Newtyle) tomorrow, but not fishing, just gaining brownie points :8). I'm probably not the only angler in Scotland who will be glad of the rivers being out of commission at Easter (because I too will be out of commission).
Alex
Alex,
I'm doing you a favour, my friend. It's time to get normal. I see from your last post on the current casting problems thread that you're fixated on the " mound of venus ". That's because trout fishing's for fannies !! :lol:
T
Another very enlightening and educational day at the club spent among the salmon fishers. Ian Kirk is a great demonstrator and a really helpful guy. I think I learned as much today as I have in years of fishing.
Alan had his work cut out today but his pupil was getting there at the end. I've never met anyone who held a rod quite so gently.
Anyone for Thursday night ?
Teither
QuoteAnyone for Thursday night ?
Ok Jim, I'll go for it. I fancy fishing Saturday and Sunday (if I can get away with it) as the weather looks like being decent, so Thursday at the pond will salve my guilty conscience for not making Sunday at the club.
Alex
OK Alex, see you there.
J
Thanks to Alex tonight for explaining and showing me how and why the tailing loops were blighting my efforts - it's practice time now.
And Alex saw for himself the couple of old trout that inhabit the pond [ area ] ! ! But we only caught swan !!
Teither
I'm going to be at the casting club tonight with camera and tripod to take a series of pictures showing the whole casting stroke. I won't be taking pictures of anyone who doesn't want it. The shots will be taken in very quick succession at around 4 per second which will give you a good view of the casting stroke. I'll then try to take a movie of various people doing various casts using the movie capability of my D90 which is supposed to be very good unless people run about!
Alan will be helping as I can't take shots of myself.
I hit 108' tonight with the #5 weight. You won't believe this but I kid you not, the line was bolt straight all the way to the fly. (I must admit to it being the only one! :lol: )
Am I **** doing a demo on distance casting next week. I'll do one on how to change direction, speys and all, every one can cast a straight line now. Time for the useful stuff i think.
Malcolm and I had some quite fascinating casting tonight. Standing to cast around 50' I would say but with no backcast room. Spey and roll casts only, not allowed to put D-loop further than around 2 feet behind the body. Was very interesting and quite a challenge, something quite useful too.
Very interesting watching everyone last night and the progress people are making. What a difference in the other Malcolm - double hauling was way beyond him when he started. Alex's 42 inch practice rod was a revelation. I could find a use for that on one of the burns I fishing. I like Alberto's suggestion of a competition using it - could be great fun!
Just thought i'd come on and say that I really enjoyed myself at the club last night. I learned more in a couple of hours than I had trying to teach myself for the last two years!!!!!
Cheers Lads
Stephen
Quote from: Squigster on May 07, 2010, 09:00:31 PM
Just thought i'd come on and say that I really enjoyed myself at the club last night. I learned more in a couple of hours than I had trying to teach myself for the last two years!!!!!
Cheers Lads
Stephen
Hi Stephen. I'm glad you got something out of it. I enjoyed it too :D
Have a look at Alan's post http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=13362.msg138414#msg138414
That should make sense to you now after last night. Would you have understood what Alan is getting at if we hadn't had that wee casting session last night?
Alex
Quote from: haresear on May 07, 2010, 09:45:58 PM
Hi Stephen. I'm glad you got something out of it. I enjoyed it too :D
Have a look at Alan's post http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=13362.msg138414#msg138414
That should make sense to you now after last night. Would you have understood what Alan is getting at if we hadn't had that wee casting session last night?
Alex
I have to say Alans post is top notch!!! The only bit I didn't fully understand was the bit on wrist rotation.
Speaking as a novice, (and because me viewpoint has been invited), I'll chuck my tuppence worth in.
I prefer not to learn by rote, I'd far rather have time spent explaining to me the concept of what i'm trying to achieve before actually casting a line. I feel if I understand what I?m supposed to be doing then it becomes easier for me to understand where I am going wrong and how to correct it. Especially useful when I don?t have a kindly instructor standing beside me to correct my actions, because if I have learned by rote then its easy to drift away from what I?ve learned whilst practising myself away from club.
Alans post is excellent as it explains in detail an exercise that will improve my casting if I carry out. I can also refer to it at a later point to make sure that I?m sticking to what I?m supposed to be practising
Cheers
Stephen
Stephen if that's the case speak to me next week, give me an hour an I'll have your ears bleeding :lol: ..............only kidding!
I'm exactly the same as yourself, from the first proper instruction I had I knew I had to understand the whole environment of fly casting and that's what I tried to do. It's not good enough for me to know that if you do that - X happens. I need to know why and my learning curve becomes very quick and I'll do it before you can blink an eye. If I don't know why, i'll progress slower.
One of the hardest things with teaching people with a fly rod is getting them to listen, not because they don't want to, not because the instructor is bad but because EVERYONE and I meant everyone, with a fly rod in their hand they will fidget. Myself included, with a rod in hand try speaking to someone without casting or waving it etc. With the last couple guys I've taught I've stopped them casting for a wee bit and explained what we're going to do, why we're going to do it and then finally try it. Received a positive response or at least that's what they told me :lol:
There's two switched-on guys stating their preferred learning style !
J
Hi Alan
In my simple terms, the arm casts through the arc with the wrist rotation at either end to dramatically increase the loading on the rod and thus generate the real power of the cast? As Scott mentioned the rotation is actually "only enough to take the tip from being behind the butt to infront of the butt". And thus the wrist action is actually a very small (but hugely important) movement, within the whole arm movement of the cast.
Stephen
Quote from: Squigster on May 09, 2010, 04:11:14 PM
Hi Alan
In my simple terms, the arm casts through the arc with the wrist rotation at either end to dramatically increase the loading on the rod and thus generate the real power of the cast? As Scott mentioned the rotation is actually "only enough to take the tip from being behind the butt to infront of the butt". And thus the wrist action is actually a very small (but hugely important) movement, within the whole arm movement of the cast.
Stephen
You've nailed it, that's all there is too it. The most important part is actually what comes before that rotation, if you can get a smooth, purely forward (or backward!) movement in there before the rotation your cast will be as good as perfect! Lead before speed as Andrew says. If you read around sexyloops at all, you'll hear the phrase "late rotation" or "delayed rotation" what you have just explained is exactly that.
Alan
What has happened to you ?
Have you stopped talking GEEK .
Your post is good .
Stephen, your explanation was simpler Laughing
Now you to are learning, aboot time. :tongue2
when is this starting again, or is it already running?
Quote from: Chris Provan on May 10, 2010, 01:31:14 PM
when is this starting again, or is it already running?
It never stopped.
thanks for the information there Scotty.
Chris - Was going for impact and importance :lol:
7pm on a thursday, same as last year. It's been steadily getting busier with more beginners over the past few weeks so a combination of a bit better weather and changing to evenings has obviously had an impact.
Alan - that's true :lol: Quite impressive when you consider how self sustaining it was over the winter.
Thought so. Good effect.
Glad to know its still going and getting stronger.
Heading to Durness this Thursday but Ill come along next week.
thank you very much :D
Quote from: scotty9 on May 10, 2010, 02:13:45 PM
7pm on a thursday, same as last year.
7pm or 6.30 pm ?? It was 6.30 pm last year - or 5 pm for some ! :)
Teither
Quote from: Teither on May 10, 2010, 10:15:09 PM
7pm or 6.30 pm ?? It was 6.30 pm last year - or 5 pm for some ! :)
Teither
I thought it was 6.30 too Jim.
Alex
Alex,
It is 6.30. But I'm a devil-may-care sort of old rascal and just turn up as early as I like ! :D :D What's your excuse ?
J
ps I 'll be in Yorkshire this week, so I'll miss Thursday and Sunday.
J
QuoteAlex,
It is 6.30. But I'm a devil-may-care sort of old rascal and just turn up as early as I like ! Very Happy Very Happy What's your excuse ?
J
the feckin rush hour traffic between Hamilton and Knightswood fair rips my knitting :x
Enjoy the Wharfe Jim. I hope the weather heats up for your trip.
Alex
Alberto the boss said it was 7 :) I go for 7 anyway, trying for 6.30 means getting stuck in kingston bridge traffic for me - not worth it.
I might be a bit earlier this week as i'll be in the west end anyway beforehand.
Scott,
If you refer back to the opening post in this thread, you'll see that , according to Alberto, 6.30[ish ] was the given start time. It was also the time he announced at the outset of the club when he addressed the throngs gathered by the pond.
If something has changed we need a formal announcement ! Questions will be asked in the house ! :D :D. The people must be heard and the democratic will must prevail ! :D :D
Should we ask Jeremy Paxman to mediate ??
J
Jim QC,
I'm afraid as I was not an original standing founder member I cannot comment on the original nature of the case. My term of attendance only came into being approximately one year ago, a few weeks after the initial founding. However, may I present my evidence to the house - http://www.flyforums.co.uk/other-casting/38619-glasgow-casting-club-25.html My evidence is presented as information that was annouced in the interim between founding and the yet to occur formal announcement.
Hopefully the house will accept my evidence and see how such a confusion may have arised.
I would ask that the house deliberates carefully and is guided to return a verdict of a new official announcement being needed.
Regards,
Scott QC
:lol:
(Jeremy Paxman would be good, however I'm not sure I would survive his cross examination :shock: :lol: )
Got two new rods to play with on thursday....
Quote from: scotty9 on May 11, 2010, 06:57:26 PM
needed.
Got two new rods to play with on thursday....
Scott,
Ok. I'm biting. What's your indulgence this week ?
J
ps - you've not joined the Fladen club, surely ?
Me - fladen club? Never! :lol: I genuinely don't like them, I'd have the similarly priced Shakespeare rods, much nicer in the hand IMO.
Two loop rods - a #4 and #5 in the same series. Different recovery rates on them other than the line weight change. Most welcome to try after I've had a play, really liked the #5 when I tried it and bought the #4 blind for my brother.
Scott,
I also used to say things like... " Oh, I know I've enough rods, but this one's for my boy .. ". David Bell used to say in reply , " Yeah, yeah. Heard it all before ... "
So I say to you, " Yeah, yeah " etc etc!
Anyway I'm off to Harrogate tomorrow, with two 4 weights if you please, to try the Wharfe. I can hardly feel the buggers in my hand ! :lol:
See you anon,
J
Oh forgot about that! Yeah I think I'm telling myself it's for the kids now too :shock: :lol:
Best of luck Jim! I look forward to the report.
Quote from: scotty9 on May 11, 2010, 07:58:39 PM
Two loop rods - a #4 and #5 in the same series. Different recovery rates on them other than the line weight change. Most welcome to try after I've had a play, really liked the #5 when I tried it and bought the #4 blind for my brother.
What a strange feeling that was: both rods have hexagonal handles! I did like the lighter of the ywo but would get that handle on a lathe!
Quote from: Alan on May 14, 2010, 12:50:58 AM
the 4 was a delight, i didnt really notice the handle,
have to mention the presentation test; impressive or what?
I liked both rods for casting with, but I think the handles would piss me off after a while. I think your "presentation" test was a good idea Alan. get people to focus on getting smooth, good loops etc. and before they know it they are casting further than they were before by whacking it. Good idea :8)
I liked your wee 7 foot #3 Harrison/Sparton rod a lot Malcolm :D
Alex
Quote from: scotty9 on May 11, 2010, 11:31:51 PM
Best of luck Jim! I look forward to the report.
Scott
Alex
The Wharfe is crap ! Wee rods are crap !! Trout fishing is ... well, you know !!! :lol:
Actually, the truth is that I'm crap !!!!
The Wharfe was great, and a lot of fish were caught, but nane by me ! :( Rods either side were scoring good fish, quite regularly. I got zero, even using the same flies [ and every other fly I could think of ] ! Mind you, a couple of other guys [ non-salmon fishers ] also blanked.
Help ?? :? :?
J
Jim, don't ask me...ask Alex, he'll get you onto fish!
Shame you didn't get any fish, there's always next time as they say! We had a river flow at the casting club last week, there was a pipe with a strong flow of water into the pond :8)
Hi All,
Did anyone find/come across a green jacket left behind last Thursday night ? If so it belongs to John McElroy, who won't be along tonight. Nor shall I be, regretfully - back still sore ! If anyone did find it please contact me or John direct if you have his number, to arrange return. Many thanks.
Jim A
Teither I have that green jacket in the back of my van.
All the best ,
Gary :D
Gary
Great ! Thanks, gary. I'll let John know.
Jim A
Ask the guys on thursday, you'll get more of them in person I think.
One of the issues has been the recent influx of people, how many new comers/beginners were there last week? :shock:
The problem with demos is they have to be made up :lol:
Quote from: scotty9 on June 01, 2010, 01:15:47 AM
Ask the guys on thursday, you'll get more of them in person I think.
One of the issues has been the recent influx of people, how many new comers/beginners were there last week? :shock:
The problem with demos is they have to be made up :lol:
Aye, it is difficult to deal with newcomers, as we (or at least I do) feel they need immediate attention. Alberto was asking the same question as Alan about the way forward and I said go with the flow, but in retrospect I'm not sure if that is correct. Maybe we need more structure. Time for Scotty, Alan, Alberto and I to get together I think.
Having said that, Davy (Bravo75) Gasman, Aweman and Adam are all looking pretty damn good these days with double hauling and everyone else is coming along too, so we must be doing something right :D
Alex
Yes, you guys are doing an impressive job. It's a great shame there appears to be nothing to match your skills, enthusiasm and selflessness up in this neck of the woods
Quote from: admin on June 01, 2010, 10:11:42 AM
Yes, you guys are doing an impressive job. It's a great shame there appears to be nothing to match your skills, enthusiasm and selflessness up in this neck of the woods
If anyone would like to donate a coach and groupies, we'll do a tour :lol: :8)
Alan - sounds like a good idea. Likely generate good progress from that, otherwise you need to rely on people coming and saying what they want. The obvious danger is stretching yourself too thin. If man X wants to learn the double haul and you do this, this and this and then work on the next stage next week and eventually end up with a man with a fantastic cast...... unfortunately man Y has been left in confusion why he can't do it, is not getting the help he needs and wonders why he bothered turning up in the first place. :( I think it's a balance between your kind of 10 mins here and there and me and Alex spending all night with someone like last week?
Take it one step at a time?
I have been on club days in winter twice with top class instructors - Donald Downs and James Tomlinson. One instructor to more than 20 people yet on both occasions everyone learned something.
Donald was a superb instructor and motivator and after introdutions, a talk and a short demonstration he set out a "basics corner" that was where he spent the majority of his time.
With the best casters he asked them what they wanted to learn, showed them how then once the basics were established as he put it "let the arm catch up with the brain". Not that he then ignored everyone but beginners but he knew that there was a time where the coordination process had to become automatic.
I'm not saying that this is the way to go but a beginners corner is certainly a start with just one instructor assigned to it each week.
Quote from: Malcolm on June 01, 2010, 10:50:51 AM
I'm not saying that this is the way to go but a beginners corner is certainly a start with just one instructor assigned to it each week.
Was this not how the Glasgow Casting Club [ for single-handed rod wild trout fishers ? :) ] started out ?
Alex is quite right - if more folk are coming along and those who have been regular attenders [ and practisers ] are showing great improvement we can surely deduce that good things are being done.
And Scott is right too - if you want to know what people want, if anything, different from and/or in addition to what is available now , just ask them !
J
Many organizations would give their right arms to have the problem you guys suffer from.
Too much interest and participation!
:D
Three, or four, 'classes'.
Beginner - for those that are new or can't quite grasp the process.
Intermediate - for those who are sure of what to do and want to learn more.
Advanced - for the casters who want to learn it all.
Professional - for those who would like to go for the casting exam.
Rotate the instructors around each class so that a) they don't get bogged down doing the same thing every week and b) the students learn the technique from a different instructor which might make it easier to understand. Not every student will take to every instructor and this takes the personality clash out of the equation.
Some great ideas there... very well thought out.
Jim - are you coming this week? I've been practising with the double hander :8)
Scott,
Yes, I hope to be along ... just give me a minute or two to come round now from my wee faint - Alan agrees that the learners should say .... !! [ Or is he, by any chance, at the tug ?? ]
The back has been really sore this last couple of weeks but a lot easier now. I've a skip to fill tomorrow [ with unwanted garden soil and other stuff ] so if that goes OK I look forward to Thursday. Why do I have an awfy feeling that you're going to be showing off some magical double-hander stuff ?? :lol: :lol:
J
Quote from: admin on June 01, 2010, 04:07:08 PM
Many organizations would give their right arms to have the problem you guys suffer from.
Too much interest and participation!
:D
Admin,
I think you're dead right. In spite of all the debate and differing points of view in evidence, this club has been, in my view, a terrific success from the outset - really helpful instruction [ even from the barmy one ! ], keen and willing learners, and a good and easy ambience, all the time. Too much "structure" might damage that !
Teither
Hi Jim,
Not at all! I just have got the bug so to speak and rather enjoy casting the double hander now! :) My brother picked up a double hander for the first time last week and under Tom's guidance was casting brilliantly! Rather embarrassing on my part! :lol:
I agree lots just want to do their own thing however a simple syllabus may possibly be helpful. This needn't be long:
3rd June
Beginners Corner
Scotty9
Cast of the Day
The Aerial Curve
Big Alex
Gasmans Corner
False casting
Music by Dream Theater
10th June
Beginners Corner
Alberto
Cast of the Day
Snap ...Zee
Alan
Gasmans Corner
False casting
Music by Alabama 3
Alan here is something for you to read
Frankly this is what, for me, makes The Experience. It's not that we are using the Internet in a new way ? Sure, I'm teaching a pupil and posting these lessons exactly as they occur on my site, using this information to teach another pupil in a separate country, and posting these lessons on site to teach the world. This truly is something pretty incredible. But what really makes The Experience, for me, is my learning. By teaching Karen, and us both taking notes, I can really analyse my teaching methods. I am the instructor and I'm learning.
and the gasman challenge, different one each week.
What is tomorrows nights challenge ?
Gasmans Corner is were you get the coffee.
Music by Mariachi El Bronx
All the best,
Gary :P
Hey how come I get the beginners first? :lol: Only kidding....
I guess we can only find out by trying! :)
Hi Guys
On reading posts which are very good I can only comment on what I expected when I first attended the club. On arrival at the pond someone came over introduced himself and asked what type of fishing I enjoyed, I was then asked to demonstrate my casting skills, after 5 min the instructor asked me to stop casting . I was briefed on the faults of my casting and this was then demonstrated the right way to make the cast.
This went on for many weeks until my casting improved then I was instructed on how to improve distance and accuracy to a point were I am now double hauling with ease.
I think this is the best way for each new member and existing member to be developed and that is why they keep coming back each week, the individual at the end of the night leaves with more knowledge on how to improve there casting.
See you all Thursday
Malc
Only if you can make the casts look good :) I went out last night to try and take some and found a million midges down the park :x
anyone up for a bit of film analysis ?
Ok Alan I would like that. :roll:
All the best,
Gary
I suspect mines would require an 18 rating!!!!
Stephen
Ha! Stephen...... :lol: That made me laugh, what you need is a bit of confidence, I think you would likely be surprised at seeing your casting on video. It's likely better than your imagination of it :wink: I think you would definitely be pleasantly surprised watching your own cast.
Casting club in 15 mins...... I think I might be late tonight :lol:
I'd be up for it next week, for a few reasons:
Benchmarking - By filming how "average" my cast is just now, hopefully when I look back in a few months i'll be suitably encouraged to keep practising my casting as it should be obvious that my efforts, (and the skills of the instructors) are being rewarded by a quantified improvement in my casting.
Back Cast - I have no idea how good/bad/indifferent my backcast is. At the moment i'm trying to learn to feel the backcast, as opposed to just relying on timing - But as I haven't mastered the art, then I can't judge if it's really working for me.
Comedy - It should give people a wee chuckle
Stephen
There's a strong chance I won't be there either and a possibility I won't be able to get back before I go to NZ :shock:
:shock: Sorry :lol: I might be able to get along next week for an hour or two, definitely won't be able to stay all night.
Nice one :lol:
QuoteRe the video casting stuff; any chance of showing deliberately crappy casts and a fix?
A suggestion would be showing a tailing loop (aye, multiple reasons I know) from long distance, i.e. tailing loop visible in the film. With the next clip, a close up of the rod and the casting action causing the problem. You might need two cameras filming simultaneously for this, I wonder if that's a possibility Laughing Laughing.
My wee Echo Micro Practice Rod might be useful for showing this, as the "line" is very visible and the rod, being short can be shown quite close up. A single shot would do, with some commentary. Alan, what do you think?
Alex
I've been trying out Jim's (Teither) camera and it seems that it would be ideal. It doesn't have a firewire connector in the kit so I haven't downloaded to my PC but from what I can see it is first class.
Ardbeg - what would you like to see? I'll see if I can rattle something off for you.... Give me some sort of idea and I'll do my best :)
Quote from: buzz on June 22, 2010, 11:50:56 AM
At the risk of making this a casting debate i find some rods (the softer ones) are easier to make tailing loops than faster rods, is it all down to the power application (too much)on the forward stroke?
Buzz,
I think this an example of how some filmed action could really be helpful. I'd suggest you beware of only verbal explanations. Alan once tried to explain to me [ at length ] how tailing loops were caused. I immediately became even more expert at tailing loops - I mean at making them !! :)
Fortunately, Haresear was able the next week to explain again [ concisely ] the hows and whys AND to demonstrate how to avoid making them !! :lol:
Teither
Quote from: buzz on June 22, 2010, 11:50:56 AM
At the risk of making this a casting debate i find some rods (the softer ones) are easier to make tailing loops than faster rods, is it all down to the power application (too much)on the forward stroke?
Mark - you're not allowed to ask casting questions :shock:
But yes you are spot on! Tailing loop means the tip dipped below that magical straight line path you hear all the time, just think of it as the tip buckling with an extra bend. A softer rod buckles easier and hence they are easier to cast a tail. That's the main reason I like a stiffer rod, you don't have to concentrate as much! :)
All you need to do is make the forward stroke both longer and less abrupt, smooth it out and power for longer in comparison to the stiffer rod.
Quote from: Alan on June 22, 2010, 05:33:50 PM
Peter Anderson once said he had never yet seen a rod that could produce a shyte cast all by itself :lol:
Scott Loudon once said that he had seen plenty of rods that can prevent you
easily making a good cast :lol:
(Not wishing to discredit Peter, he is of course correct!)
Quote from: scotty9 on June 22, 2010, 07:41:46 PM
Scott Loudon once said that he had seen plenty of rods that can prevent you easily making a good cast :lol:
(Not wishing to discredit Peter, he is of course correct!)
Orvis Hydros, Sage TCR, Sage TCX, Hardy Angel....to name but a few :)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Looks like it's the Sage men vs. the Orvis girls then.
Quote from: Alan on June 22, 2010, 01:39:53 PM
did it work? i find the only sure way to banish tailing loops forever is to understand what the causes them, a habitual tendancy to apply power to early, too suddenly or too much is not going to go away with practice alone, the brain needs to be in control.
compare the speed of learning something new to practicing trying to stop something you been doing for a long time.
Alan,
It did ... for a wee while. You're right, though. It is conscientious and conscious practice that does it.
Today I spent the afternoon with Malcolm and his son, Dan, who had very kindly set up the camcorder for me, before patiently taking me through the basics of its operation. I must say as a technophobe that these basics were quite a bit more straightforward than I'd thought. As a bonus, Malcolm then showed why the instruction manual had seemed all double-Dutch to me. It was written in Dutch, albeit of the single variety ! :D However , there is in the pack, he explained, also an English language version, so look out soon for Candid Camera Knightswood - style !
After the " lesson " Malcolm took me for a walk along the fine bit of river he fishes, and what an eye-opener that was - bonnie countryside, a lovely river, albeit at all-time low, Malcolm told me. One great benefit of that for me was that I could begin to recognise why the good salmon lies were just that, something not so obvious, to me at any rate, in normal river conditions.
The real bonus of the walk, though, was seeing and hearing this countryman pointing out all the bird and insect life I'd never have known about .. and identifying them all too. It was truly an eye-opener for me. I think that Malcolm took a number of pictures and intends to add them on to this note, or as a follow-up, I expect.
I had my first try with the camcorder and looked at the playback a wee while ago - oh dear !! :( :( Still, I now know there's no pictorial advantage in pointing the camera at the path in front, or at my companion's heels, adorable as these might be ! But practise I will, so beware, Zoomer. Any further bouts of pondside nose-picking may well be broadcast to an ungrateful nation ! :D :D
Finally, my grateful thanks to Malcolm and his family for their kind help and hospitality. It was a super and very revelationary afternoon for me.
Teither
You're welcome Jim, stopped the domestic grafting for a while.
Quote from: admin on June 22, 2010, 08:41:42 PM
Looks like it's the Sage men vs. the Orvis girls then.
Depends which Orvis girl you have, ms Helios is a true girl, ms hydros is like a female rugby player, disguised as a girl but really a man! (That's actually not entirely true, having trained with the Scottish woman's team, there is one hotty! :lol: )
if you dont see me at the cc im the one with the disguise
An amazing discovery, a specimen of the pushmi-pullyu dog thought to have become extinct in Jolliginki many years ago :roll: :roll:
Another interesting night last night with two new visitors and another potential member who was just passing.
Alan continues developing his 5 weight sermon " ....and the lord looked upon Alan and saw that he was alone so while he slept he took a rib and formed him a 5 weight and the lord saw it was good... "
Jim continues to try and make me a classic spey caster. God bless 'im but I'm beyond redemption. Alan tries to help me casting his Orvis helios but the line still behaves like a python with it's tail caught in hot fire tongs. Business as usual.
Quote from: Malcolm on June 25, 2010, 12:32:35 PM
Jim continues to try and make me a classic spey caster. God bless 'im but I'm beyond redemption.
Jesus wept. :)
Teither
Quote from: Ardbeg on June 22, 2010, 01:46:42 AM
Nothing really concrete Scott. As mentioned earlier, tailing loops are probably a biggie for most guys. Possibly demonstrate how they happen and then demonstrate how to stop them. Lots of possibilities here I guess.
Cheers
Ardbeg
I haven't forgotten, off to NZ tomorrow so will try and get some sort of half decent video put together whilst I'm away and hopefully it might help a few folk. Give me a few weeks and I'll see what I can do :8)
Good luck in NZ Scotty and remember to do your stretching exercises before getting it on with those Maori girls :lol:
Hello Scott,
Quote from: scotty9 on July 01, 2010, 03:28:42 AM
I haven't forgotten, off to NZ tomorrow
Have a fantastic time, however you spend the time, boarding fishing etc.
Whilst in Queenstown, surely you'll visit Kawarau Bridge :wink:
Have a great time,
Tony
Cheers guys - the maori women, not sure I can handle that! I'd get my ass kicked! :lol:
Not sure about the bungy either Tony, it looks pretty dam scary! I fancy a sky dive but the bungy jump just seems more scary!
You'll have a great time in NZ I'm sure, Scotty. For an unforgettable adrenaline fix try the 335' Pipeline Bungee in Skippers Canyon followed by an afternoon on the Kawarau River rapids with the Mad Dog River Boarding Company.
The Bungee was scary and exhilarating but the river boarding was terrifying. I truly thought I was going to die and my life really did flash before me. I was under for sooooo long and I honestly remember thinking that it was shame I was going to die as I'd had such a good day up till then :lol:
Maybe you should just catch some big troots instead!
Thanks for the friendly welcome last Thursday night it was good to meet up, and put some faces to some of the guys on here, I will have to come by again the next time I am up that way.
Jim
An interesting night at the c.c.
Alex had two of the Wildfishers Fly lines, I cant say much about the grey River Don line
as Alan & Alex would not let it go.
So I had a couple of casts with the Highlander White Line, I can only say that it casts very
well, I like it.
All the best,
Gary :8)
Another very interesting night at the club. Harelug brought along a lovely light salmon rod the whisker 8/9 12ft. Brilliant for a wee spate river for seatrout or grilse. That's one of the great things - trying out loads of gear. Also one of the salmon lads brought along a Loomis Stinger Shooting head rod and it pings out a long long line. Great craic too.
Can anyone remember when we called a halt to the Thursday evening sessions last year, due to darkness descended ? I ask particularly because I believe Gary Scott is intending to come along, with some new rods, on 16 September. I shouldn't imagine there'd be much light after 7.30 by then, and since most folk don't arrive till after 7pm .... ??
Teither
Quote from: Teither on September 04, 2010, 12:27:15 PM
Can anyone remember when we called a halt to the Thursday evening sessions last year, due to darkness descended ? I ask particularly because I believe Gary Scott is intending to come along, with some new rods, on 16 September. I shouldn't imagine there'd be much light after 7.30 by then, and since most folk don't arrive till after 7pm .... ??
Teither
I can't remember Jim, but as you say it should be soon. I would guess this Thursday may be the last before the switchover?
Alex
I had a look at sunset time http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=90
At this time of year we get very little time between sunset and darkness so I think 1935 next Thursday is cutting it fine considering it's a 1900 start. Especially with a world champion guest.
Interesting to watch the wee fox tonight passing within a few feet of us. Teither, they are of course sneaky thieves, should your DTX disappear you'll know what's to blame. Just being helpful.
Malcolm
Quote from: Malcolm on September 10, 2010, 01:15:43 AM
Interesting to watch the wee fox tonight passing within a few feet of us. Teither, they are of course sneaky thieves, should your DTX disappear you'll know what's to blame. Just being helpful.
Malcolm
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Malcolm on September 10, 2010, 01:15:43 AM
I had a look at sunset time http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=90
At this time of year we get very little time between sunset and darkness so I think 1935 next Thursday is cutting it fine considering it's a 1900 start. Especially with a world champion guest.
Interesting to watch the wee fox tonight passing within a few feet of us. Teither, they are of course sneaky thieves, should your DTX disappear you'll know what's to blame. Just being helpful.
Malcolm
You are right Malcolm. I'll go along early anyway, but it looks like Sundays from now on.
We had fun tonight. Denbo from Gambia was out running and stopped to chat. He adopted Teither as "daddy" and got some casting instruction in return.
Malcolm tried Harelug's Sage set up and liked it. I tried Malcolm's Harrison #3 rod and liked it. Harelug tried my Orvis rod and liked it but couldn't get on with Malcolm's at all. One man's meat....
Talking of meat, the kebab-eating fox turned up again. I'm sure it is looking to brush up on its casting technique, but on the other hand it was eying and stalking the Knightswood park swans quite intently for Christmas dinner, in between checking out the litter bins.
Once we go to Sunday morning switchover (I'll likely be fishing this coming Sunday) I'll video us for critical analysis on the day. Should be an eye opener for many of us. I know I was horrified to see a front view of myself casting. Then again a front view of myself is always pretty unpleasant, rod in hand or not...
Alex
Quote from: Malcolm on September 10, 2010, 01:15:43 AM
Interesting to watch the wee fox tonight passing within a few feet of us. Teither, they are of course sneaky thieves, should your DTX disappear you'll know what's to blame. Just being helpful.
Malcolm
They sure are sneaky thieves, and they're not alone ! But I've shot a few of those sneaky thieves in my time .. and jailed a few as well !!
Just being helpful !! :D :D :D
Open-eyed Teither !
Quote from: Alan on September 11, 2010, 06:46:26 PM
one for the salmon types, Andrew Toft, has offered to come to the cc and do a bit on spey casting with you, he is busy with this stuff so asks when would be the best time for everyone to be there that is interested, im guessing its a sunday but decide which one would suit and ill let him know.
Alan,
Two points from one of " the salmon types " - 1 - Would look forward to another Andrew visit. Any Sunday does me. I'm there from just after 9am every Sunday, bar the sixth Sunday of each month.
2 - Given your condescending tone re " salmon types " can it be assumed that you are not the " Zoomer " who has just joined the Salmon Fishing Forum ? :makefun :makefun
OET
There's a Glasgow Casting club thread there too..
Quote from: Alan on September 11, 2010, 08:00:55 PM
now im wondering what you do every 6th sunday at 6 mins to 6 :shock:
Usually I'm practising my spelling !
OET
Three things conspire against me coming to the Glasgow club this Thursday.
1) It will be dark early o'clock
2) The weather is carp
3) Traffic - the pope's visit is on Thursday and the traffic will be even worse than usual.
Sorry I won't make it guys. Looks like I'm switching to Sundays from now on - possibly starting this Sunday, or maybe next.
Alex
Quote from: haresear on September 14, 2010, 10:21:36 PM
3) Traffic - the pope's visit is on Thursday
Is he not coming along for a quick cast? :D
Quote from: admin on September 14, 2010, 10:24:10 PM
Is he not coming along for a quick cast? :D
No, he told me he was feeling a bit ruffe
http://www.finerareprints.com/print_detail.html?stock_no=15793
Alex
Quote from: haresear on September 14, 2010, 10:36:10 PM
No, he told me he was feeling a bit ruffe
Sorry to hear that Alex. It's a rudd
y shame he can't make it.
Unfortunately I won't be there either. I'll now be loading a van ready for a 4am drive to Bristol. Deep joy.
Should Benedict happen to find the time to pop in for a cast perhaps he can help exorcise Alans voodoos and snakes?
Well I did go down tonight. I'm glad I did. Gary Scott is a wonderful teacher and a thoroughly good guy. I'm not very good with the double hander and things that are second nature to me with the single hander are just so difficult with the double hander. I learn best by watching and asking questions and watching him spey cast something like 170 - 180 feet was a jaw dropping experience.
Suffice it to say that by the end of the evening I was casting much further and much better than I would have dreamed possible. He's a great caster and an even better teacher.
Malcolm
What time are you lads there on sunday, as I might call that way, on the way north if I manage to get out of my pit early enough
Jim
Quote from: jimmul on September 17, 2010, 12:49:48 AM
What time are you lads there on sunday, as I might call that way, on the way north if I manage to get out of my pit early enough
Jim
Jim, being a troot man, I'll likely not appear on Sundays until the 7th October.
Those poor souls afflicted by salaritus :), even Denbo from The Gambia, should be there from around 9..ish until 12, when the equally insane model boat crew give us a broadside and take over.
It is worth staying around at this point as one particularly devious "boater" has a radio controlled mallard, which he uses to great effect. :D
Alex
Oh I've just seen a controversial statement in amongst the posts, I'm sure Alan will pick up on it :lol:
Alex , it's the the salaritus that is bringing me north from sunny Yorkshire, but if your not there I will maybe catch you next
Jim
Not sure if I'm doing something technically wrong here but it seems that when I try to post on the back of a " quote " my post does a disappearing trick.
Anyway I had a couple of tries earlier to add my tuppenceworth to Malcolm's post re Gary Scott etc at the CC on Thursday night. I wanted to say that Malcolm is a bit guilty on this occasion of understating what he achieved. Although an obviously strong caster he was maybe a wee bit indisciplined with the two hander, as he was when he first took Gary's 18' rod in hand. But in quite quick order he made a major style breakthrough and seemed to step out of his own cloud into a golden halo, from which wonderful long casts, with perfect loops, started to sail up to 50 yards, and maybe even a wee bit more on a couple of occasions.
Whether this miracle was in some way connected with simultaneous events over at Bellahouston only Malcolm, and possibly wee Benedict, will know. But it really was almost miraculous - and real ! I was there and I saw it. :D At any rate I can easily foresee that Malcolm, once he's come back to earth, will soon be giving up all the actual fishing nonsense,stop wasting his time with hooks etc and start properly devoting himself to the practice of the art of speycasting, probably competitively. Toft, Downey, Costello etc etc look out ! Someone's coming for you !
Quite a few of us also had a go with the big [ as opposed to wee ] 18 footer. And the point of this homily, Mr Haresear is to advise you and other trooties that if things continue as they started on Thursday there may soon be nae room for the kiddy-on rod wielders on the water. So a good tip might be that you shouldn't wait too long before reappearing on Sundays. You may need to stake yourselves a claim on the grassy bit ! :D Up near the kiddies' playpark might be an available site .. and an apt one ! :makefun And you'd be immune from salaritis ... unless you might be tempted into a wee bit of contagion ?
Malcolm, we bow before thee ! :D
Wide-eyed Teither
I had a wee lesson from Gary Scott at a recent Meeting and it took approx 2 seconds to see what i was doing wrong.
I will practice all winter then maybe have another refresher next year.
Brian
It sounds like I missed a revelation on Thursday.
QuoteAnd the point of this homily, Mr Haresear is to advise you and other trooties that if things continue as they started on Thursday there may soon be nae room for the kiddy-on rod wielders on the water. So a good tip might be that you shouldn't wait too long before reappearing on Sundays. You may need to stake yourselves a claim on the grassy bit ! Very Happy Up near the kiddies' playpark might be an available site .. and an apt one ! And you'd be immune from salaritis ... unless you might be tempted into a wee bit of contagion ?
Just remember Wide Eyed Teither :)(I liked that) that you salmon afflicted guys should move on a couple of steps between casts. Being a proper drey fley fisher, I should expect you cheps to give way to me, what? :)
Seriously, sounds like Gary was good. I might make Sunday and if so, look forward to meeting Jimmul and the rest of the Motley Crue.
Alex
Sorry I mised the casting club on Thursday, sounds like a good night. Did intend going along with Alex, he decided against it because of the Pontifs visit. My mind had already been made up for me, apparently God was not looking kindly on me that day and my wife is a catholic!!! I nearly went for a swim in the clyde, it's a long way down from the kingston bridge but I'm told Polo's float! The bastard lorry driver got me a couple of corners later when he decided to swith from right to left lane half way round the corner, caught me behind the door post, shunted me, flipped me out in front of him and then railroaded me. I think my casting would have been a bit shakey on Thursday and I think the Polo is destined for the scrp heap.
ouch
Bummer - Hope you're Ok!!!
Shaken up at the time, got home, told wife to pour me a very stiff gin then go look out the window. I'm ok just a bit shaken up. Totally the other guys fault, insurance agreed after checking road markings out on google earth, just hope the lorry driver doesn't change his tune, he admitted responsibility, no one stopped to say they had witnessed it.
Great to hear that you're OK - Cars can be replaced!!!
A bit of a mess that one. I'm glad you are ok.
Glad to see you're ok John.
Looks like a repair job, it will be paid for and I'm not out of pocket and looking for new car. Whiche ever the ensrance works out, can handle excess payment
Quote from: Alan on September 18, 2010, 06:18:55 PM
i think i have seen this 'Salaritus' thing, its the tendancy of the inflicted to practice spey casting without a change of direction, in severe cases they can display repetative behaviour without thought but always in a straight line and rarely waist deep as in the practiced for activity :makefun
Oh dearie me ! Just when we thought you were at long last in rehab, out you come again with all this drivel, sonny. It is, of course, the tendEncy of the AFflicted to practiSe jump rolls without change of direction, in the main, so as not to dazzle the likes of you, or hurt passers-by, as some do, without thought, care or attention ! We very possibly would go waist deep were it not agin park regulations. We are indeed repetItive, in order to ingrain our skills and in trying, aye trying, to cast in a straight line, not in imitations of a curly wurly. All of these we do, of course, to improve our progress in our practiSed activity.
And, above all, we do all of these things to impress upon you and the other fairies wi' their wee wands that we are the rightful owners of the waters. So, as I said before, away and park yourselves up on the grassy bit, oot o' herm's wey !! :D :D :D
These, incidentally, will be my last words on this or any other matter for some time. This PC is about to give up the ghost and will now have to be replaced. Try not to miss me too much in the meantime, little one ! :makefun
Out-of-pocket Teither
Alan,
Old pal, great guy, thoroughly decent type, salt of the earth etc etc, privilege to know you blah de blah .... altho' I've managed, with Tom's advice, to resurrect this PC into what I'm fairly sure will be only temporary remission from terminal decline, I will definitely need to replace it. Any advice on what would be a good buy and where to source it etc, please ?
I remember you and Malcolm, I think it was, expressing a general view to steer clear of PC World .... so any advice you'd be so magnanimous enough to give would be gratefully received - similarly from anyone else who knows about these things. Thanks in advance,
T
Make, spec and what is wrong with your present machine?
Might be worth while just upgrading some bits and/or getting a new hard drive, memory, processor or motherboard etc. That should work out cheaper than a new machine. If you want a new machine try one of the small independent computer shops and see if they will build you a machine to your specs. and for whatever you use it for. You may not need a high end machine with all the bells and whistles.
Fishtales,
Thanks. It's a Fujitsu Siemens, now approaching its sixth birthday, and keeps shutting down after about 10 minutes. Sometimes I can't even get it to open anything I want to look at, including this forum.
I'm told the problem might well be a combination of the PC's age, low RAM , around 500 mb I think, and that it's not worthwhile trying to upgrade. But I now notice that the problems are less intense when my son is out of the house and I can disconnect all the stuff he has on his machine - in fact I disconnect his machine ! We share a wireless connection and when he's active on his laptop this machine of mine is hopeless.
Teither
Jim,
I sent you a PM - I don't know if you got it.
A couple of things. I suspect it may be as simple as a motherboard battery. Unless you've changed it these batteries run out usually after about 3-6 years If it is then usually the problem manifests itself in the first 10-15 minutes after startup. If you get past that stage then it may run for days. The motherboard battery on your machine will probably cost around ?1, I think it will be a:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Energizer-CR2032-Lithium-Coin-Battery/dp/B000IWZVZY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=computers&qid=1285157866&sr=8-4
but you can check.
If you change it you do have to reset BIOS settings after startup. This is dead simple and I can help with that.
Secondly if you do decide to change then consider using this company
http://buyit247.com/
- a lot of IT professionals do.
They sell grade 2 PCs - these are returns which may have a slightly marked case or a faulty plug or other minor fault. This company sorts any problems tests them and then sells on. The warranty is only 6 months but you can buy and extended warranty if you want. A sample product which is many times more powerful than yours:
http://www.buyit247.com/pcs/grade2-pc-systems/amilo-desktop-pa-3415-amilo-d-a64-x2-5000-3gb-500gb-dvdsm-vhp-1.html
Very poor turnout tonight at the CC but the one lonely soul who did go along enjoyed a splendid late afternoon and evening [ up till 7 pm ] in the company of the best speycasters you'd ever see, so I did !!
Oh, they were all there tonight - Scott Mckenzie, Ian Gordon, Way Yin, Eoin Fairgireve - you name it. I thoroughly enjoyed the craic too - great banter and wonderful teaching and advice from all of them had me putting out the whole 60 yard Carron line time after time, all to the vocal applause of all these stars of the double-hander .....
The only damper on the occasion was the wee wifie walking her dug who put an end to the party, asking me if I was alright - " Jist that you've been laughin' away an' talkin to yersel for the last hauf-oor, mister. I wis jist wonderin' if ye've mebbe ta'en a wee bad turn ? Is that yer line still in a fankle ? " .... :) :)
So I guess it really is Sundays only from now on ..?
BOT
QuoteSo I guess it really is Sundays only from now on ..?
:lol: :lol:
Aye, it gets dark too early for us poor souls who have to go to work before we can get to the casting club.
I'll be absent on Sunday too as it looks like I'm on babysitting duty. Hopefully will make the following week.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on September 24, 2010, 01:16:33 PM
whats 'vocal' applause?
Better than the clap ! :lol:
" Bravo ! ", " Beautifully done, old chap ! " Oh ! Excellent cast there, young fellow ! " and all that kind of thing - in this case, of course, the stuff of dreams and wishful thinking, not to mention a seriously overactive imagination ! :D :D
Incidentally, how long before they try letting you out for the day and we see you back at the pond ?
T
Like this.
[attachimg=1]
"The wind, the wind!"
Do you remember Michael Hordern's despairing moan in the Rod and Line series? It was like that today, a wild blast destroying even the best of casts. Certainly the heaviest wind I can remember down at the pond.
I had brought along a friend with his 8 year old son, so the wee lad could have his first casting session. He did well in the circumstances but it really wasn't a day for learning.
Anyway I was having a think about something Alan said a few weeks ago about some core structure to the club. The more I think about it the more I think there may be a point to that so that
anyone who wants tocan have a target to move towards. So I put together a "straw man" document to get things started. For those not familiar with the term a "straw man" is something which is put up to be knocked about on the basis that it is easier to think constructively when faced with something than with a blank sheet of paper. So here it is:
Glasgow Casting Club Proficiency - Trout
These are all very practical fishing casts. Further it is also intended that these casts can done with the facilities we have. Some casts - like the reach cast - are best done on a river. It is the intention to focus on results and not on technique. Techniques (narrow and wide loops, double hauling etc) will need to be mastered to achieve results but the levels are results driven rather than technique driven.
The first level is a target for new caster and is intended to be give a level of proficiency that will allow the angler to be confident in approaching loch and basic river fishing. Some experienced fishermen will do no more than this
Level 1 ? The Practical Caster ? Bronze award
[/b]
1. Overhead cast 50 ft into an 8ft circle. This sort of distance and target size is typical for casting to the zone of a rising fish.
2. Roll/jump roll cast 40 feet into an 8ft circle. This cast will allow the angler to fish when confronted by bankside vegetation or high banks.The second level is naturally a bit more difficult but should still be within reach of most of the people who work at it.
Level 2 ? Advanced caster ? silver award
[/b]
3. Overhead cast 70 feet into an 8 ft circle
4. Spey cast 60 feet with a 60deg change of direction
5. Perform right and left aerial mends with minimum 5ft ft deviation around an obstacle into a 10 ft circle
6. overhead cast 40ft into a 3ft circle
Level 3 ? Gold Award
This is quite difficult and may require a fair bit of effort of effort to achieve. It is intended to be very challenging.
7. Overhead cast 85 ft
8. Spey cast 70 feet with a 90 deg change of direction.
9. Roll cast 50 ft with no more that 8ft of clearance behind.
10. Perform shallow (5feet) and deep (10 feet) aerial mends into a 10ft circle
11. Overhead cast 50 ft into a 3 ft circle.
12. Cast through a 5ft by 5ft "gate" 30ft away into a 3ft circle placed 8ft beyond the obstacle. This is to emulate casting to a fish under low hanging tree branches
Structure is necessary in all aspects of life if one is to achieve anything at all and that progress can be measured. Structure helps avoid needless repetition, time wasting and ultimately boredom.
Quote from: Alan on October 11, 2010, 05:32:11 PM
I'm going to stick that on the board for my foundation class after the holidays, A solid principle communicated with a good mixture of authority and wisdom, my work is done for today :D
It was inspired by the magnificence of Stan.
Quote from: Alan on October 11, 2010, 12:03:10 AM
most that come to the casting club are vague about what they want to achieve
That's fair enough, different people have different aspirations and the casting club is a broad church and for many it's a nice get together particularly over winter.
For some people specific goals are helpful. I have at least two for this winter the major one is to cast a very long way with a salmon rod, I won't say just how long as it will provoke loud and long derisive banter so I'll keep that to myself. Secondly I'd like to be able to cast c shaped curves better than I can at the moment - ie the difficult curve - Fred knows what I mean!
One of the things that has always struck me is the emphasis on technique to cast well but there is a physical element too. It's much easier to cast well if you have strong hands. Just have a look at the Rajeffs. Charles Ritz used to practice with a wine bottle! It's like basminton or tennis as well as technical excellence all the top players have the strength to apply that technique. For some reason most people trying to improve casting never try to improve their hand strength.
Malcolm
I have to say i'm quite taken by Malcolms idea. I reckon it would encourage me to learn outside my comfort zone, as at the moment I tend to try and improve my current modest skills as opposed to learning new skills. New skills that would be genuinely useful when i'm fishing :D :D
And hopefully by learning a suite of skills my overall performance at individual techniques would improve
Stephen
Here we go again with the unspecific [ and thereby unstructured ? ] use/application of this word " structure ". It seems to me that whenever I hear this word mentioned in respect of the GCC and all its works it's being used to imply but rarely, if ever, define different things, notions, ideas, have it as you will.
Malcolm's "strawman" goes quite a long way to setting out that particular notion of his, and it is a good prompt for further discussion.
Somehow I don't believe it's the only kind of thing people mean by "structure". A couple of weeks ago, following some lively exchanges of views at a Sunday session, it was proposed by some members that a meeting to discuss the club, its direction, and its structure be arranged. The time and place of that meeting were made known to all attendees at the pond a week past Sunday and these details were also posted on at least two fora commonly used by GCC members, though not, for whatever reason, on the WFF.
In the event, only five GCC members turned up for the meeting and there was one apology !
As it turned out, the person who had made the original proposal to discuss and settle " structure " actually meant setting up a structured approach to his own learning path. I think I'm right in saying he believed that at least one or two others had the same thing in mind.
I had thought that the main purpose of the meet was to discuss the structure of the club and any issues of current or possible future significance, including, for example, issues about use of the pond, future activities etc.
In the end all of these matters were discussed, very amenably, with, I suppose, a kind of agreement to observe, in general, the kind of arrangements outlined by Alberto in the opening post of this thread - ie that the club was primarily a practice facility with ad hoc help and advice likely to be available most of the time. Its set-up was intended to be relaxed and informal, thus allowing folk who attended to pursue their own paths as they saw fit, with no pressure on anyone to follow any particular route. There was also a recognition of the importance of the social aspect of the club. It is also fair to say that there was some discussion on concerns that individuals have, or may have, about other aspects of the club. I don't want to go into these concerns here.
All of this was, of course , the outcome of informal discussion among just five members. I suppose that the main point of this post is to ask whether anyone at all, but particularly those who did not attend last week's meeting or did not even know about it, might see value in having another get-together to cover all these matters, and anything else of interest, with, hopefully, a much bigger attendance than we could muster last week.
Finally, I should say here that this post represents only my own thoughts on these matters.
Teither
I agree with your comments and description of the meeting , It was a pity that more members did not turn up to express there views.
Now that we have moved to Sunday's it may be a good idear to have a meeting after the casting session
Let's hear everyone's view and what they want out of the casting club.
Also it would be nice to hear what the instructors think they should be doing.
Malc
My thoughts on Malcolm's straw man poll and awards scheme:
First off, it sounds a bit like an exam to me and I'm not sure I want to do that, so I probably wouldn't take part :)
Secondly and this is a more objective view, some will with justification see the spey casting or the aerial mends as being irrelevant to their day to day fishing.
If you are going to go down the route of awarding certificates for levels of proficiency, would it not be a better idea to split the scheme into casting headings, such as accuracy (bronze, silver...), distance overhead and roll/spey casting? That way if you only ever fish lochs you can concentrate on what is relevant to you and disregard the rest, if that is what you want.
It strikes me that some of the members are looking for a more formal club structure and perhaps direction? Maybe that is something for discussion, but not I suggest, on this forum.
I'm happy to stay on next Sunday for a quick meeting if that is what is wanted. Maybe a longer pub or coffee shop based meeting (but not on a Friday when Scotland are playing a Euro qualifier :)) is warranted too. There is always MacDonalds up the road :shock:
Alex
At risk of dragging this off topic a tad -
The "certificates" thing intrigues me. What is it? Who has the "authority"? Who has the "authority" to grant the "authority"?
Perhaps in reality anyone does.
You set yourself up, declare yourself, announce yourself, get a flash web site, some glossy leaflets printed, write a few articles.
You will eventually be "recognised".
After all in all walks of life busybodies / posers who wish to control and influence what others do invariably get attention if they shout loud enough and / or strut and stride enough to get themselves noticed.
This is not an attack on you guys, on the contrary, it's a recognition that you can be as valid as SANA, APGAI, GUYGUY, GIRLGUY or any other organisation if you really want to be. All it takes is a bit of time, effort and a brass neck. It's been done before - look around you.
How many other loosely tied organisations work as well or have lasted as long as this casting club? Seriously. There is nothing like it in this neck of the woods in spite of there being a rash of qualified instructors up here.
Do it through this site if you like. It's been going for 7 years, it's well known. It's ever "respected" by some and seen to have "authority" in matters related to wild fish / fishing.
Go for it, capitalise on your long and varied experience.
As Arthur Daley would say, could be "a nice little earner". :lol:
The fact that we all want different things from the club is clear. However the above strawman - remember it is there to be knocked about - is simply that some form of syllabus/targets have been mentioned by more than a few and so that is clearly a desire of some people's part. As I've said before this is not what I personally want to practice - my goals are different but I do have them. (I had them last winter too: to cast overhead, roll cast and curve cast using my left hand.) That said I will do everything I can to help during the winter.
So, I'm suggesting that for those interested in having some form of progression then a goal-driven prospectus may be of interest. The only thing I'm sure about is that it should be goal-driven. There are different paths to achieving goals and if we get there then that's fine.
As to the contents of the above then everything is just my first input - Alex's idea is every bit as valid - that's the whole idea. It may well be that the issue of a badge would be popular - so I put it in. As far as I know there are very few casting proficiency marks out there except the BFCC distance awards and these are targetted towards distance. What I do know is that if I could complete the gold award I would feel confident that my casting armoury was in the top 2% of all fishermen.
I haven't attemped anything on the salmon front as I don't know enough about double handed techniques.
Malcolm
P.S.
Teither,
Had I known about the casting club review meeting I may well have been there. I feel sure that I would have remembered during the tedium that permeated during that Scotland game so I'm pretty sure I didn't know about it.
Quote from: Malcolm on October 12, 2010, 10:44:01 AM
Malcolm
P.S.
Teither,
Had I known about the casting club review meeting I may well have been there. I feel sure that I would have remembered during the tedium that permeated during that Scotland game so I'm pretty sure I didn't know about it.
Malcolm,
I'm sure that would have been true of a number of the guys and I'm pretty sure you weren't around at the pond when the idea was first mooted. That's why I think it would be better to have another discussion with a bigger attendance, hopefully to generate more thoughts, ideas etc.
T
I think it's a big problem that has been discussed since last winter and now nearly a year later has not been resolved. This isn't a reflection of the people trying to solve it but maybe just an indication it is far harder than many may realise?
Anytime I try to write a reply to these kind of threads I find myself writing out a post and then deleting it. No matter what the idea I find it will not suit everyone all of the time. It's awfully difficult to give a structure to what I'm starting to think is the 'unstructurable'!
Keep it informal, make some games - get people casting around things, through things, against each other, make it interesting. And then get on a loch/river with your basic skills and learn by doing/working it out!
Congratulations Scot , for you have hit the nail on the head with your post :clap;
All the best,
Gary :)
Another interesting day at the club today. We were joined by Andrew Toft who is the current world 18ft speycasting champion but is also an excellent all round caster and instructor. He brought along some interesting salmon setups including a delightful 12ft rod which would be perfect for single or double handed casting on small rivers - just like a longer switch rod. I could see it as a nice heavier loch style rod for anyone loch fishing for salmon. I can't commend this club enough - a great learning resource for all of us within reach.
Sounds great Malcolm.
If only we had a local web forum up here that could organise things casting as well as you guys do it would be great.
Alas it seems it is not to be.
Quote from: Alan on October 17, 2010, 11:38:16 PM
Stop moaning and find a suitable location. organising is no more than getting people to arrive at the same time.
I can't do that for the sake of local harmony Alan. Already the good folks in Aberdeenshire are having difficulty sleeping with the level of teeth gnashing that is going on. What with endorsements from leading writers, being the sounding board and virtual home for the GCC and the only forum supporting the Don Trust we are already exhausted and stretched to the limit. :lol: Would there be the required level of commitment from trained instructors in these parts anyway? If there was it probably would have happened already. Not much happens here. Compared to Fife and the central belt Aberdeen and surrounding area is pretty much a backwater. Anyway, I may well be moving to more civilised parts within the next year, so who knows I might be standing around the weegie duck pond with the rest of you get up and go types next year at this time! I'll still support the Don Trust of course, hell someone has to! :whistle2
It's odd there is nothng around in a place as big as Aberdeen. Turriff is fine but it's a near 70 mile round trip from where I live.
Quote from: Alan on October 18, 2010, 06:25:05 PM
hope there is no knashing of teeth when the casting club tour takes off, i told the guy from STV they could follow the event for free
You've reckoned without demarcation mate! The gnashing has already started! :lol:
Please see my post in the NE casting club thread.
I have emailed all the members I could get email addresses for, but just to advise that there will be a meeting in the Burnbrae, Milngavie Road, Bearsden on Sunday 24/10 at 1pm following the usual casting club Sunday morning.
I can't make Sunday at all, I'm afraid.
Alex
The meeting planned for Sunday 24th October, at the Burnbrae Hotel, is postponed, due mainly to the prospect of another very low attendance.
T
" O tempora, o mores " !
Quote from: Alan on October 22, 2010, 03:25:43 PM
maybe attendance will rise now that people know there is a meeting :lol:
Alberto has a list of members and contact details.
Most people did indeed know that a meeting was arranged, through contact e-mails and fora notices. Unfortunately, the coincidences of SGAIC affairs and an Old Firm encounter are, apparently, getting in the way.
As a number of people do appear to want to discuss " structure " I'm hoping you will be able to come along when the bigger get-together is indeed arranged. You it was, Alan, who kicked off this concept so it will be important to get your input.
Hope all is well with you in the meantime.
T
Hopefully all the GCC guys will have got an email from me now, but just in case, here is the gist of it...
"Looks like this is postponed due to lack of members able to attend.
Can I use this opportunity to Just a few suggestions/guidelines from other members that I think are worthy of consideration?
Safety first:
The troot fishers among us have a need for long backcasts, especially now that we are improving as casters!
How about we agree to confine our skills to the field across he road from the pond?
I have seen many close calls with passers by, not to mention the traffic with fly lines firing out across two lanes. Let's just agree to head up the field unless roll casting.
The double handers among us are obviously primarily rolll/spey casting and need a fair bit of room. If the single handed casters bugger off across the road, this should help the salmon men out and allow them in turn to accommodate passers-by, by casting along, ( parallel) to the bank.
The point is to minimise the risk of endangering the public with the attendant problems this could cause us. One complaint and we could be ordered off! Let's please be squeaky clean on this.
Discarded mono:
Now let me firstly say I 've never seen any evidence of this and I am 100% certain that all our waste mono is taken away.
One of the cooncil workers pointed out to a member that a swan had been found to be trailing some line. Our man in Havana pointed out that that the swan had most likely flown in from elsewhere where bait was used and and that by the nature of the club, discarded line was extremely unlikely. This seemed to be accepted by the man from the cooncil, but is worth remembering.
Other Issues:
As always, different people have different views on what the club is about and what it should be aiming at.
My own view is that the club should avoid assessing or awarding perceived competence. I like the informality of the whole set-up and feel it is less intimidating to beginners that way.
On the competence/award thing. If distance casting is your bag, you can measure your cast yourself. If you want to cast around obstacles or through hoops, well you don't need anyone else to tell if you did so successfully or not. The fish generally let you know how good you are.
When I'm at Knightswood, I always have a 30m tape, cones and hoops, so just ask if you want to use them.
Alex"
Sorry for monopolising the forum on this, but a good 50% of the GCC are members on here, so it is a logical place to publicise things.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on October 23, 2010, 04:24:05 PM
maybe a suggestion, or maybe a distraction, but Scott and i did some practice in Kelvingrove park, on the river, fast flowing and real, drew a bit of a crowd on the bridge then a civilised lunch in the art galleries, not an option for a bigger group but the advantages of a real context ramps up the learning curve, for those interested in mastering the perfect drift somewhere could be found.
Alan,
I'm sure you're right. I have a couple of ideas for likely spots, which would, I'm sure, accommodate those wishing to practise in a real river environment. If you're at the pond tomorrow I'll outline what I have in mind.
T
I hit some guy's boat with a 10 weight too :lol: Definitely a bit of a nightmare with people around no matter how careful you are, you can't look behind you all the time.
The river stuff was really good, after faffing around with speys we spent most of the time trying to present under overhanging trees on the far bank with no room behind us and get the perfect drift, so difficult but what a great learning tool! The lunch was certainly not bad either :8)
I read a thing by Stu Tripney over here which was pretty cool and something I'm going to work on once my exams are finished. He talks about practising casting from behind bushes, lying down on your belly, crouched down, facing the wrong way etc. The things you have to do when you're trying to stay out of sight of the fish! That's going to be my next line of practice....albeit I haven't practised in all the time I've been away!
Quote from: Alan on October 24, 2010, 12:09:12 AM
i think it would benefit double hander casters also, anything to escape the un-focussed repetative casting that results from not having a particular thing to achieve and immediate one to one feedback,
It's only unfocused to the untrained eye Alan.
Top quality spey casting depends on incredibly sharp timing, fine loop control and precise placement of the "anchor" that the normal overhead casting single handed caster just can't appreciate. I am just a newcomer to the art but watching people like Gary Scott and Andrew Toft is a lesson in humility!
Everything in casting moves on from a baseline that is extremely well ingrained. In spey-casting the crafts outlined above are the baseline.
Simple perhaps but these basic skills require a high level of application. Just watching the great and good gives a false sense of the application required to get there.
As a competent single handed caster who has stepped out of his comfort zone into attempting a new art may I gently suggest that you try first before passing judgment?
Sharp timing, fine loop control and precise placement of the anchor are needed in the single handed equivalent also, the basic workings of the cast are the same regardless of rod used. If you don't have the above elements with either rod, its simply not going to work as well as it could. I know overhead casting single handed caster was mentioned and I agree with that. But most who may be reading this i'm sure know exactly that spey casting isn't just some easy add on.
I agree with Alan as I believe what his post is outlining is the need of a goal, he's not talking about simple repeating of tasks but rather just casting and casting without analysing what the goal was, what the outcome was and what needs changed. If you have that kind of analysis then repeat casting is a useful tool. He's not saying that all repetitive casting is bad.
And just as an aside, Andrew taught me more about spey casting one morning on grass than anyone/anything has taught me. We had specific goals we were trying to achieve and it worked a treat! One thing I do think though - river practice is so much better for speys. Anchor placement on still water just isn't the same as running water, having practiced at the club and practiced on the river with a few of the FFF guys - the river rules supreme.
Scott,
I wasn't going to enter yet again into this issue with Alan's view of what the double-handers are doing at the pond but I'll see if I can get you to see the picture.
As Malcolm says, we are trying to ingrain the fundamental movements. We do have our goal and it's to get these fundamentals right. It is not just a case of blind repetition. We do try to analyse what is happening in each cast. We discuss peformance with each other in efforts to analyse what is happening. And we do consciously work at getting things right because without getting the fundamental controls right nothing else will work right. Believe it or not we know that, just as we do also know that simply repeating the same mistakes will not only not advance our skill level but will indeed consolidate whatever bad habits are in there.
We just get a bit p'd off at conceited assumptions that we don't know these things. We don't need to learn about drag free drifts, casting round big stones etc etc etc. We just want to be able to put the damn fly where it will begin working immediately after landing, with as much gracefulness of style and economy of effort as possible, in whatever current of river we are fishing. And it ain't easy.
And, incidentally, it's a lot easier to get practising on running water if you're not on a salmon beat.
And, as a final incidentally, we had Mr Toft over this morning, giving another marvellous demo focussing on, you've guessed it - lift, anchor placement and use of the hands and body in these as well as in the final delivery. He never once got in the water ! :)
Teither
Jim - Sorry, my apologies. I did not want that post to be picked up as being targetted at anyone or 'us vs them' once again. I was just trying to point out what I took from Alan's post. I agree exactly with what you are saying, the analysis is the critical part, I didn't mean to suggest that the guys at the club aren't doing this.
I also totally agree with the principles, I was just pointing out they are the same regardless of rod used.
I should add i love playing with double handed casting, might need to see if i can get my rod brought out!
Scotty,
No apology is due from you, Scott. I wasn't having a go, just trying to see whether you would understand the points that our good friend seems unwilling to take on board. I trust all is going well for you in NZ.
Jim A
Are some underlying tensions starting to emerge here chaps? Sure seems like it from the outside looking in. It would be a pity, you have something pretty special and unique there that has by all accounts produced some spectacular results. Nothing like it at all in this neck of woods. :?
Quote from: Alan on October 25, 2010, 01:36:58 PM
i think we could all benefit from putting casting into context
Do you mean casting as a means to an end or as an end in itself?
Quote from: admin on October 25, 2010, 02:32:00 PM
Do you mean casting as a means to an end or as an end in itself?
It can be both.
A shitty cast to a rising fish results in bad words being spoken and a determination to practice/learn.
A perfect cast, landing as and where you planned, brightens a blank day
I think some of it is an end in itself. While I am not at all interested in single handed competition casting, I see double handed casting as almost completely separate from fishing. I seldom use the big stick and when I do I don't need to cast more than about 100 feet or so.
However I thoroughly enjoy the hitting a spey cast a long way with outlandishly heavy rods and lines. These are far too powerful to use for normal fishing (I suspect the true rating of these bits of kit is something like AFTM 20, certainly they are way off the normal AFTM scale).
Absolutely correct, Malcolm ! While we all try to develop casting skills to improve our fishing prospects, casting for its own sake is indeed very pleasurable for some of us. I can see no case at all for anyone being precious about the matter, either way.
For the love of the wee man, let's just enjoy the fact that facilities like GCC have allowed and continue to allow many people to enjoy themselves in a particular way that pleases them.
As this particular thread of debate has gone on for a long time now I mean to make this my last contribution on this aspect of the subject. For anyone interested enough [ and small blame to anyone, especially those not members of GCC, who are not interested ] I leave only this question for folk to consider .....
Is the casting club to be considered a success in that it has indeed provided an excellent facility for people to enjoy in pursuing their interest, to the detriment of no-one, and with almost everyone having made good progress from their starting point ... or is it be considered in some way a failure because only one person has sought to advance his skills to the level of official recognition ?
To Alberto, who started it all off, here's a "Thank you" from one member. I believe I speak for the great many in saying that.
Teither
Has Alberto bowed out of the club now?
Quote from: admin on October 26, 2010, 08:40:38 PM
Has Alberto bowed out of the club now?
No. He is still the mainstay.
Teither
I'd definitely consider it a success Jim, I think it would be hard to see it any other way. It did exactly what it was meant to and arguably was a lot moe popular than initially thought. Long may it continue!
I think all you need to aid the club in going forward is the same setup for those that want it, a welcoming environment for new folk (just keep that up) and some new tricks and events for those that want that aspect. If people want to do distance stuff, why not? If people want to cast around things, why not? If people want to perfect all aspects of their cast, why not? etc etc. Just put the facilities or the option there and let people make the decision.
Everyones at the pond - everyone does there own thing.
Alex goes curve casting, anyone who wants to learn it, go and ask him and cast with him.
Alan goes radiator casting, " " ...... etc
Andrew does spey work, ......
Easy system.
On the whole the club has much to commend it.
I can't think of anyone who has not learned something or improved in some way, myself included. There have been individual milestones passed in terms of distances cast and new techniques, notably double hauling, learned by a fair number of people.
So yes, I think it has been a success and I thank Alberto too for getting it off the ground.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on October 27, 2010, 10:01:33 AM
i cant see why any members advancing to official recognition could be seen as a failure, i'm sure many would see this as a success,
An impressive personal success for sure. It's good to see those who have achieved a "recognized" standard (whoever it is recognized by is irrelevant) are willing to give their time freely and share their knowledge as are others like Malcolm with decades of experience and an impressive track record that is recognized by his peers if not by some self ordained angling / casting organization.
Quote from: Alan on October 27, 2010, 10:01:33 AM
i cant see why any members advancing to official recognition could be seen as a failure
OK. I'll rise for what is definitely the last time. The statement quoted above is clear enough evidence, if more were needed than has already been demonstrated, that an inability to write in a clear, literate and intelligent manner is very often linked to an inability to read according to those standards.
Or is it simply all down to juvenility ?
Weary Teither
I for one am really pleased that we have the G.C.C.
This club has been going for just over a year,there are 27 pages on the FFF and there is 63 pages
on this forum about the club.
Yes the club works,because we want to get better at this sport.
Take a look at Aweman 1
Take a look at Aweman2
Take a look at myself(gasman), the club works.
So to the USUAL SUSPECTS
Alex(Haresear)
Alan
Malcom(The Pipe)
Aweman(Malcom)
Dave Bravo(FFF)
Teither(Jim D.H)
Scotty9 (Buzz Lightyear)
Thank you for coming week in week out, no matter the wearther.
And a big thank you to Alberto for getting it going.
All the best,
The Gasman(catering) :makefun
Quote from: gasman on October 27, 2010, 01:56:50 PM
I for one am really pleased that we have the G.C.C.
This club has been going for just over a year,there are 27 pages on the FFF and there is 63 pages
Indeed and if I lived closer I'd be there with you.
Look to the north east to see the alternative and rejoice in what you have and what you have achieved! :D
You guys walk while others just talk.
A good turnout today and a nice mix of single and double handers Also a big welcome to our new young member Charlie (aged 8) and dad Peter who I know reads what he can of this forum. Young Charlie ended up the day putting out a lovely line of about 30 feet or so and was well pleased. He had the Orvis junior Guide 5 weight rod but in my opinion this is much too stiff for a learner and I ended up putting a 7 line through it in order to get a bend in it with 8 yards of line out. The single handers were all on roll casting today with the exception of young Charlie and a lot of progress is being made quite quickly. One of the older gentlemen was consistently roll casting 40-50ft off either shoulder.
A couple of new faces in the amongst the salmon casters too with our (almost) resident instructors Ian Kirk and Andrew Toft giving one to ones unstintingly as usual.
There was a nice turnout at the casting club today.
I would like to say a big thank you to Malcom for bring the Ginger Bread,very nice.
All the best,
Gary :8)
hi gents,I havn.t visited the forum for quite a while (my loss).
I came across this topic by accident, I did not realise the gentlemen I have been
spending my Sunday mornings with were members of this great site.
I count myself lucky to be able to participate in many of the different branches
of our fantastic sport, but the one that alluded me was the double handed salmon rod.
5 weeks ago I turned up at the GCC armed with an old B&W15footer from Ebay and a lot of hope,
I was made welcome by everyone there, handed rods to try lines to try, tackle I could never afford
and great advice from every one.
I think its fantastic that these men give up there time to teach total strangers this fine art.
I will hopefully see you all tomorrow.
I'm being cajoled/forced into christmas shopping this weekend :(, so apologies to the casting club, but I won't make it.
I don't think we've met, Invictor, but I'm glad you have got something out of it. I certainly have, both from the learning and the teaching points of view.
Alex
I think we've met Invictor. May see you tomorrow, this snow means that my hoped for trip out for grayling is probably a no go.
The pound was not fit to cast a line on.
[attachimg=1]
Aweman(Malcolm) and myself turned up but, due to the whiteout we gave it a miss.
[attachimg=2]
May be next week.
All the best,
Gary :)
You did well to get there at all :shock:
I was devastated :roll: because my christmas shopping was postponed.
Alex
QuoteI was devastated Rolling Eyes because my christmas shopping was postponed.
Nae luck, only postponed! You'll be praying for more snow next weekend.
Going to the casting club was easy.
Getting back home was not, due to slipping the back of the van around corners. :shock:
Gary
Quote from: guest on November 29, 2010, 12:11:54 AM
Is it a Transit? The one i own is a feckin` nightmare in these conditions.
When we had our plant nursery I had a LWB semi-high top Transit. Rear wheel drive. It used to get stuck in bloody car parks if they had any snow at all on them You are right, they are a nightmare. Useless on anything but dry roads.
I have had two Transits and both where sh*t,never again will I buy one.
This is the first time that theToyota Power van has giving me any problems in six years
of ownership, the best van by far.
Gary. :)
Back online with a new machine so .... has there been any activity at Knightswood these last few weeks, and is anyone planning to venture out this coming Sunday ?
Teither
Quote from: Teither on December 09, 2010, 09:12:23 PM
Back online with a new machine so .... has there been any activity at Knightswood these last few weeks, and is anyone planning to venture out this coming Sunday ?
Teither
Och, I suppose I've got the christmas pressies Ii, so have no excuse for not going :lol:
I saw a real puddle today :shock:, with liquid in it and everything, so there may even be a bit of water to cast on, if you can keep the killer swans away. Failing that, there is always single handed stuff happening up the the field.
Alex
Would you bring your tape measure Alex?
Quote from: Malcolm on December 09, 2010, 11:59:03 PM
Would you bring your tape measure Alex?
Will do Malcolm. One is already in the bag and I'll bring another if I can find the second one. Hoops and cones will be available too.
Alex
The pound has still got ice on it, all the swans are on the grass getting food of joe public.
The grass is clear, so single hand casting only .
All the best,
Gary :)
mind and bring the tea.
malc
Sorry, I'm going to have to to call off. Babysitting :freeked two monsters tonight and tomorrow
Alex
Harelug staying with you tonight then Alex. :D
Quote from: shanksi on December 11, 2010, 08:54:32 PM
Harelug staying with you tonight then Alex. :D
No it's not
that bad Ian :)
Alex
Stick on Home Alone and come along - they'll be fine.
There's a few on here will know Ian - he's a Hillend member and knows Clan Chief, Fishtales and PA. He had a really nice rod with him today: a Sharpes Gordon 2. He had an Orvis Helios tip flex as well; it could usefully be tipped with a feather duster and would be fine for getting rid of cobwebs from awkward places.
Hi alan,
A very big thank you to yourself and the rest of the guys for making me feel very welcome, it was lovely being there and having a try at all the differant types of rods and lines, it could save someone a fortune(namely me)... best pound spent in a long time.
thanks once again
ian.l
well i hope the 625.fd comes in handy for someone..lol, it was lovely to get the chance to try out some of the other fly rods and to meet people like malcom and the others they all made me feel very welcome.
i`ve got a couple of other rods kicking about in the cuboard somewhere, i can always pop them in the car for people to mess about with.
A good turn out today, even Alan turned up :makefun
[attachimg=1]
The Gents in the photo came to the aid of one of the swans by releasing it from the frozen ice.
[attachimg=2]
So we had a cast on the grass, the rod eyes where still icing up when the sun was out.
I hope the weather is a bit warmer next Sunday.
All the best,
Gary :)
It looks kinda cold, wish I could say I was missing it but the weather puts me off :lol: I miss the practice and banter though!
I'm with Alan, I'd still have that feather duster over most rods, not all but most :8)
Quote from: scotty9 on December 13, 2010, 04:06:33 AM
It looks kinda cold
It sure does. I'm impressed. Up in this neck of the woods there's nothing like it even in summer! Perhaps you west coasters are not so gay after all. :lol:
I'm wondering if anyone has a mind to hansel in the New Year at the pond on Sunday. The pond today still has a fair covering of ice. There is a reasonable stretch of clear water, at the popular side, but it seems that every swan, duck, goose and what have you in the district has moved in. The park area is clear of snow and ice .. so are there any likely takers ??
Meanwhile, all best wishes to everyone for a good 2011.
Teither
Are you guys not thinking about getting an indoor venue for the cold months? Or aren't you gay enough? :gay4
:lol:
I'll be passing the park on Sunday around 11 am. I'll pop by and see if there's anyone there.
Quote from: Alan on January 07, 2011, 09:46:02 PM
there are no forum members there
that's because we are real wild fishers, not sissies. :lol:
As usual I'll be passing around 11 am and will stop if there are others there. If you need a 4 weight then I've got one.
I had a 4 but have cut it to make a shooting head, will bring it on Sunday. Hope Gassman turns up with the Tea ?
I will be there if I can dig the van out of this snow.
There were four at the casting club today,
Alan
Aweman
Myself (Gasman)
and Tony first time at the club.
I hope Alan has not put you off caming back :lol:
Well done for getting out in this terribly cold and snowy weather guys!
I would have come but decided against it.
Instead I went looking for the local sea eagle today - perfect light for photography but it didn't show up. It's been highly visible all week but the light has been very poor. Typical.
Just to remind all who attended today you all forgot to leave your ? 1.00, That will be double next week.
Quote from: aweman on January 09, 2011, 08:48:01 PM
forgot to leave your ? 1.00, That will be double next week.
Just as well this club's not in Aberdeen. With the prospect of having to part with ?2 none of them would be back. :lol:
Aweman you forgot to pay for your coffee, that will be double next week. :P
I was out casting today for a while; the first time for months. It felt good.......................... :8)
Still snow covered but at least mild enough so the line did not shatter :lol:.
Testing one of my new Wildfisher Blue Intermediate Prototypes - WF with the Wildfisher profile - on the TCX firestick - I'd forgotten what a beast that rod is. :lol:
I can see this line making a good job of pulling a few woolly buggers through the Grey River In NZ in a few weeks from now. :8)
Hopefully I can make it. Need to get some brownie points fast though as I'm in the red. I'll bring my video sunspecs for a laugh.
Have you noticed how every post Fred makes recently, he gets to mention New Zealand. Oh shit, now I've done it too :)
Alex
Quote from: haresear on January 14, 2011, 04:15:38 PM
Have you noticed how every post Fred makes recently, he gets to mention New Zealand. Oh shit, now I've done it too :)
Actually I hadn't noticed.......................3 weeks to go........................... :lol:
Quote from: Alan on January 14, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
...fred continually mentions NZ
There is absolutely no justification for that comment. I now consciously combine the letter N and Z in only 50% of my posts. :lol:
I was out myself today with the double hander. Notionally after pike but spent the time practicing the normal and aerial Spiral Spey off the right and left shoulders.
Here's the basic cast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIrnBUgWUBA
It's a great cast for tight situations as there is a way of doing it where you can make the forward cast without the line unraveling into the normal D loop. It's a standard cast but is difficult with the two hander for me, everything is difficult with the two hander for me. :evil:
Hi Allan
I be there am bring 91/2 Ultralite with 7wt line to see if you can make the magical 100ft.
I have ordered a 4wt from this forum to go with my Fladen then I show you. mind you have to pay double this week .
Quote from: Alan on January 15, 2011, 02:23:02 PM
i'm cutting my lines back to 75', the outer limit of controlled dry fly presentation, in protest against distance casting :crap
For fishing purposes long lines are simply ridiculous and prevent you getting enough backing on your reel.
Quote from: Alan on January 15, 2011, 02:23:02 PM
i'm cutting my lines back to 75', the outer limit of controlled dry fly presentation, in protest against distance casting :crap
Not quite in the same league as burning ?1million on a beach, but a significant gesture :D
Do you need me to bring a tape and scissors ?, and Alex can video it on his Lady GaGa glasses ...
...and now the real reason...don't let him fool you Alan is competitive! He has no doubt figured he'll have a better chance of beating Alex in a cast-off by using a shooting head.
Quote from: Malcolm on January 15, 2011, 04:00:57 PM
...don't let him fool you Alan is competitive
but he only sings when he's winning. :lol:
There was a good turnout today at the Casting Club, both single and double handers.
The wind was a bit on the high gusty side, also the grass was more like a wet sponge.
[attachimg=1]
How many forum members are in this photo,and who can spot Allan.
All the best,
Gary :D
Dunno, but it is an awfie tall goalie, and he'd better not sit doon sharpish.
Alan you are in the photo,but that big Goalie Aweman is in front of you. :lol:
Gary :lol:
The stiff breeze kept us honest today. Nice to meet Andrew Moray for the first time.
The question must be asked what was Alan doing behind my coat ? I saw Malcolm cast 103 ft with a 3wt line amazing.
I went along for the first time snice Christmas. The strong following wind destroyed our backcasts and flattered our forward casts, but it was fun to be out.
It was nice to finally meet Tony aka Andrew Moray at long last.
I had a wee play with my video sunspecs, so we'll see how that turned out later.
Alex
It was nice to see Alan, gasman and aweman again, and of course, to meet Malcolm and Alex for the 1st time.
Got excellent pointers from Alex and Alan about my rollcast technique, and learned a cast I'd never seen before by Malcolm.
Well worth staying off the demon drink, and getting to bed nice and early the night before to head down and meet a great bunch that will happily give of their time to help you out.
I saw an interesting challenge one year at the Ayrshire game fair. They had things like window panes, gates, hoops and cones, I can't remember why I didn't have a go. It looked to be fun.
I've discovered at long last that the best way to get good presentation on rivers (well for these trout anyway!) is to use a really long leader, you then get a good bit of slack in the leader and only have to worry about making pretty large general kind of mends or none at all to your fly line. Super lazy, super economy of effort :lol: I'm just back from a trip where my leader from fly line to bottom fly was about 20-22', it worked a treat :8)
I should add that this is a piss poor solution in a downstream wind as it is totally impossible to cast :lol: Need to get to bed now, will post a report of the trip up tomorrow if I get a chance.
Scotty,
That's something I picked up from Buzz last season I always fished with leaders about 11-13ft long but changed to a longer leader last season. I think it makes a difference to how much drag is imparted. I've also come to the conclusion that although light nylon doesn't make much difference on lochs it does make a difference on rivers as it imparts less drag.
The casting club had a very good turnout today.
[attachimg=1]
Thanks to Aweman for the donuts.
[attachimg=2]
Alan what happened to the game of golf? :lol:
Hope to see you all next week.
All the best,
Gary :D
The cones are breeding! At this rate there will be over a thousand by the start of the broonie season!
I enjoyed it today, lots of people and a wonderful little rod to try: a Hanak 2 weight. Thanks to Tony (AKA Andrew Moray) for bringing it along. As delightful a little rod as you could wish for.
I fair enjoyed this week. We had some new guys and I think they all got something out of it.
A young boy, Ollie looks very promising indeed as a caster. He is real novice in terms of experience, but soaks up information like a sponge. I think he'll be brilliant as a caster and with his enthusiasm, as an angler too.
Invictor introduced himself and showed me his flies :shock:. Very nice they were too and I'm sure the Clyde trout will find them as attractive as I did.
Thomas from Hungary was an example of excellence in distance casting. I had a shot with his outfit and it really was night and day. Compared to Thomas, I can't cast for toffee. The guys who are better than you are the people to really listen to.
Andrew Moray very kindly donated a #7 Bloke XL50 9' rod for use by GCC members. I churlishly forgot to mention this today, but if you want to use or borrow the rod (Aweman might be interested?) just let me know. I'll have it with me.
Next week I doubt if I'll make it and then I'll be visiting southern hemisphere summer for a few weeks. It is likely to be 20th of March before I turn up again, so Alan has the hoops and cones meantime.
Alex
Thomas sounds like my kind of guy! Is he just a new member that has come along? I'm intrigued :)
thanks for saying hello Alan it was good to put faces to the names.
Alex thanks for the encouragement enjoy your trip.
Glad you liked the rod Malcolm, I think the non-fishermen weren't so keen :D
Despite it being excellently busy, I had the pond to myself for quite some time.
Epiphany - switch rods are pish.
It was nice to see those that give selflessly of their time, advice and instruction, get some time, advice and instruction, from a flycasting "Dude".
Thanks Alex, Alan and Thomas.
Quote from: scotty9 on January 24, 2011, 06:07:07 AM
Thomas sounds like my kind of guy! Is he just a new member that has come along? I'm intrigued :)
Scotty,
I believe he comes through from Edinburgh. He's been before and casts very like you do!
Quote from: haresear on January 24, 2011, 01:21:33 AM
I can't cast for toffee.
Alex
Well Alex, That is just so untrue! You may not match Tomas for extreme distance but that isn't exactly your speciality is it? For fishing at normal distances I'll have you as my teacher every time.
There is a distance casting competition in Glasgow in September. I don't know yet whether competitors have to be members of the BFCC but if it's on a Sunday I'll be having a go I think.
Hello Malcolm,
Quote from: Malcolm on January 24, 2011, 10:15:11 AMThere is a distance casting competition in Glasgow in September. I don't know yet whether competitors have to be members of the BFCC but if it's on a Sunday I'll be having a go I think.
Whilst hunting, unsuccessfully, for a video Thomas/Tomas recommended on Sexyloops, I found this, post 9 from Alberto:
http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/cgi-bin/theboard_07/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=4;t=12991
Maybe I'd know his face Malcolm?
Someone make sure Alberto puts me down for the BFCC please! I'll be back probably early July so will definitely be around for that in September.
Tony do you know what the video was of? I might be able to help you, I've seen so many I might know where it lives online! Yes I'm that sad! :lol:
Quote from: scotty9 on January 24, 2011, 12:13:06 PM
Maybe I'd know his face Malcolm?
Someone make sure Alberto puts me down for the BFCC please! I'll be back probably early July so will definitely be around for that in September.
Tony do you know what the video was of? I might be able to help you, I've seen so many I might know where it lives online! Yes I'm that sad! :lol:
Scott,
You may do. He's been at the pond before .... one evening last summer. He's the highly qualified Hungarian chap who came along with Alberto - a thoroughly nice chap too, as well as a fine caster.
Hope all is going well for you in NZ.
Cheers for now.
TJ
Jim, I don't recall him so I'm wondering if I might have been absent that night. And yes, everything is going very well thanks. Great fishing, reasonable weather, great job, loving life! Just no casting club although I have thought about starting one at the uni see if there'd be any interest.
Alan - interesting, there's definitely different ways of doing it! I haven't tried any since I moved over here so I'm probably even more confused than I was back then! :lol:
There's an FFF conclave starting friday night that I am going to. I better get practising for the shootout, I have 4 days left to learn how to cast a long way :lol:
Best you hold off trimming back those lines Alan.
This is not one of these verbal or philosophical masturbation sessions where endless pish can be talked.
This is quantifiable, this is measureable.
Someone actually has to step up and prove it.
As you have dug a hole for your friend, the very least you can do is stand shoulder to shoulder with him in the same trench.
September BFCC event in Glasgow would be ideal and allows plenty of time to practise.
Best get that Echo monstrosity to bend before then :D
Love,
Tony
EDIT - I've reread this -
It wasn't intended to be as aggressive as it appears. Meant to be a standard face-face Casting Club windup.
I apologies for the tone, but not the content :D
It certainly seems to be all happening at the Glasgow Casting Club as usual.
Nothing at all like it up in this neck of the woods. :lol:
Hello Fred,
Quote from: admin on January 25, 2011, 09:48:10 AMNothing at all like it up in this neck of the woods. :lol:
The lad Tomas mentioned there was a huge Sexyloops Event in Aberdeenshire, in May I think ?.
He was dropping everything to make sure he could make it.
I didn't catch exactly where though.
HTH
Tony
They have it every year Tony. That time of the year is the time for river fishing and dedicated anglers like myself are far too busy fishing to be wasting our days on grass with rods and measuring tapes. :lol:
Anyway, it looks like many of us will be busy this coming season with all the planned forum fishing outings that are being discussed right now. :8)
Hello Fred,
Hadn't realised it was an annual event
Quote from: admin on January 25, 2011, 10:23:27 AMThat time of the year is the time for river fishing and dedicated anglers like myself are far too busy fishing to be wasting our days on grass with rods and measuring tapes. :lol:
Totally understood, for that same reason I won't be in a park chucking yarn in September - CDC&Elks at wee trout in the gloaming is far more appealing :D
It's just another example of how sensibly the Glasgow Casting Club is run, moving to a weekday evening when real anglers actually want to spend their free weekend time fishing. There's nothing remotely like it up this way.
Quote from: Alan on January 25, 2011, 11:15:59 AM
which makes it rather cool that Scott is so good at it :D
Don't get him started, Alex and myself have to go fishing with him in NZ in a week or two. :lol:
Here's a warning - distance casting is maybe an adjunct to the real purpose of the club but it is seriously addictive.
I was using a Sage TCR yesterday which is owned by a guy from the village. We've been out practising a couple of times a week for the past month with various rods and despite initial misgivings and refusal to use "the beast", after about an hour of using it yesterday the rod started to make sense in a perverse way.
It's a horrible rod but get it right and it flies.
Quote from: Malcolm on January 25, 2011, 11:57:51 AM
Here's a warning - distance casting is maybe an adjunct to the real purpose of the club but it is seriously addictive.
Too right! :lol: It really is....
Looking forward to when I'm home for the club banter! Alan we'll have some endless hours of casty talk to catch up on! :lol:
Fred - don't worry about it, I'll just fish left handed :makefun Only kidding!
Quote from: Alan on January 28, 2011, 03:37:15 PM
this is one for everyone that suffers from hauling too early or the dreaded tailing loop, thats everyone i reckon.
discussed this with Thomas, the hungarian distance dude at the casting club and its a clever tip,
Jason Borger the high priest of casting, says to get the haul times correctly to say aloud 'stop' when you stop, when your ready replace the word 'stop' with 'haul', this is a nice bit of self tuition but Thomas has a twist on this that guarantees loop perfection,
when your ready, simply replace 'stop' with 'stop..haul' takes some diciplined practice but it is a good cure for poxed loop syndrome.
Alan,
Is this meant to apply to the forward cast only ?
J
QuoteThomas has a twist on this that guarantees loop perfection,
when your ready, simply replace 'stop' with 'stop..haul' takes some diciplined practice but it is a good cure for poxed loop syndrome.
I missed Tomas speaking about this, but i remember you mentioning this technique last week Alan. I'm not sure my brain can get my body to do this, but I'll give it a go.
Hopefully I will cast better than last week, when I "had a poor game". I'm saving myself for the Oreti river, NZ :D
Incidentally folks, Tomas the aforementioned Hungarian casting master is looking for like-minded people to practice casting with in Embra, where he lives (Leith Walk). He isn't really into forming a casting club as such, just a bit of practice.
Yer man is a real quality distance caster, so if you fancy hooking up with him, drop me a PM and I'll pass your details to Tomas, who is a really nice guy and one who really knows his onions as far as distance casting is concerned.
Alex
I've been out this week with the Hardy Gem having moved on from the 3 weight distance casting I have been doing up until now and also have on long term loan - wait for it - a Sage TCR and Barrio 140. Oh dear, I'm feeling I've sworn in front of a nun. I better repent
Ave Zoomer, gratia plena, Dominus tecum.
Benedicta tu in mulieribus...
Quote from: Malcolm on January 25, 2011, 11:57:51 AM
Here's a warning - distance casting is maybe an adjunct to the real purpose of the club but it is seriously addictive.
Quote from: Malcolm on January 29, 2011, 12:29:16 AM
I've been out this week with the Hardy Gem having moved on from the 3 weight distance casting I have been doing up until now and also have on long term loan - wait for it - a Sage TCR and 140.
Oh dear, I'm feeling I've sworn in front of a nun. I better repent
Err, emmmm, hands up guv, it's a fair cop ... :oops:
Ordered the Orange 140, got to level the playing field with Tomas :D, and had a go at this lark for a bit yesterday too.
You might see another slightly bemused, but very keen, beginner tomorrow Alan.
The give away will be if he turns up with a Weimaraner that likes to chase orange yarn ...
Regarding the haul.
Tomas mentioned earlier in the day, that you cannot haul too late.
Quote from: Alan on January 29, 2011, 12:15:52 AM
anyone hooking up with Thomas is going to learn some serious stuff on hauling
Yes, and 90 degree curve casts ... bugger !
To see, at last, what "delayed rotation" actually is will make any effort to meet up with Tomas well worth it.
Sounds like it's really taking off at the club!
The stop/haul thing is the way I've taught people to haul, think it's a really good method. Alex - of course you can do this, it's a piece of piss!
My Update on the FFF Conclave:
I decided not to practice for the distance comp (great decision of course! :roll:), I cast 86' into a bloody hurricane, the roughest looking casting you've ever seen. First place was 98' so a bit off the pace. The setup was the new Sage VXP with a MED line, it was quite nice, powerful rod but absolutely nothing like the old XP in terms of feel, totally different rod. I need to get my arse out practising, tracking is the single biggest thing in distance casting IMO and mine sucks right now :( :lol:
I placed first in the qualifying round of the danish casting games but slumped to 3rd in the final for what was quite frankly stupid misses! I managed to score myself a new fly line though! Along with that I won a prize in the raffle which got my loads of tippet, leaders, stus fly shop voucher, a very impressive headlamp and some fly tying materials.
It was a great event, I'd encourage everyone to go if you ever get the chance. Met a lot of cool people, some fishing arrangements made for the future etc.
That was bloody cold today and not very enjoyable. It was that brutal dank cold that seems to pierce into the bones. It made casting difficult too. It's amazing how many people turned up on a day like this - still over a dozen.
Sorry to tell you I will not be attending next Sunday.
All the best,
Gary :)
P.S. look out your Thermos.
Quote from: Alan on January 30, 2011, 07:53:25 PM
no gasman..no coffee...
Plenty of coffee up here, no casting club................ :lol:
Quote from: Alan on January 31, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
we need a club bus..then we go anywhere :8)
Sounds like a good idea. All the credible bands went on tour and played gigs in the open
Nowadays it's all fake stuff once a year in some obscure sports venue if you're lucky. :lol:
Quite a big turn out today considering the conditions at the start of the day.
Ian Kirk the salmon fly instructor helped forum member Invictor and myself a lot with his logical uncomplicated approach. I had along a 30 year old salmon rod and he cast it just as well as he casts his own ultra-modern fast Mackenzie DTX shooting head rod. The club owes a lot to Ian and he's seldom mentioned in dispatches.
Malcolm
Another good turn out today with Davefromtheattic putting in an appearance with his new rod. He just has to be the quickest learner I have ever seen. Thanks to Alan for spending ages with an old friend of mine teaching him the roll cast.
Thanks, Malcolm, I really appreciate the time you and Alan spent teaching me. I think I'll leave the snakeroll for now until I get the foundations right thought!
Another great day out at the casting pool, sorry i never got the chance to speak to everyone, where does all the time go when your having so much fun, a big thank you once again to Malcolm for letting me have a go with his new double hand-er rod, especially when he was supposed to have been practising himself(hopefully next week Malcolm) people wont shout at you.. .
i would also like to say a big thank you to tom for putting up with all my questions and also for given me a few pointers,
thanks once again guys.
If it's the 8' #4 I think Marine Megastore is the cheapest online. I've not seen a 9' in the 4#.
Does the club "quit" soon for the season, or does it just move to midweek ?
Quote from: Alan on February 23, 2011, 11:40:36 PM
anyone know where to get some fladen vantage's 9' #4?
Have you tired Cash convertors (or is it generator??) the pawn type shop with tthe yellow and blue livery. They have fladden rods, or at least the one in Dundee does. If you want me to check for you let me know and I'll pop in tomorrow lunchtime. In Glasgow there is one just up from the odeon and one just accross from central station in amongst the fast food places (sorry can rememmber the street names)
Has the club moved to a Thursday yet? I fancy a wee wander along as the Milngavie Fly Dressers has just wrapped up for the season.
Cheers
Stephen
Quote from: Alan on April 16, 2011, 09:23:57 PM
there is a strange vagueness surrounding this years switch, technically its switched when the fly tying club ends i think..or the first full moon of the month or something.
Cheers Alan. i'll wander along and see if there is anyone there!!
Squigster,
I believe it will be after the end of the month so the first will be on the 5th May. I know it's on tomorrow morning and that will be my last visit on a Sunday morning - fishing takes over. I'll ask around tomorrow.
malcolm
Quote from: Malcolm on April 16, 2011, 10:17:45 PM
Squigster,
I believe it will be after the end of the month so the first will be on the 5th May. I know it's on tomorrow morning and that will be my last visit on a Sunday morning - fishing takes over. I'll ask around tomorrow.
malcolm
Cheers Malcolm
Alberto wasn't there today Squigster and this was my last Sunday morning. The feeling is that the Tursday evening sessions will have started by 5th May.
Tried out another of Teither's lovely set ups today - a light salmon rod 12.5ft 7/8 - these would be terrific salmon and seatrout Loch style rods for places like Loch Lomond.
Quote from: Alan on April 17, 2011, 06:55:25 PM
pretty quiet today, trouters appear to be atrouting.
im thinking of a quieter spot, maybe with running water, do some in situ problem solving stuff, there is a fairly big jump between casting in near perfect conditions or on grass, to dealing with banks behind etc?
Alan we have a cracking bit on our Water small but perfect for speys etc. You should try get a bit there must be somewhere near by.
I have stopped it all together on Grass except for ariel mends around cones and accuracy.
Brian
Quote from: Alan on April 17, 2011, 07:32:49 PM
i reckon that was just a really nice double hander, guideline lpxe is seriously under rated, what did captain kirk say?
Alan,
Kirkie thought the same as you and Malcolm. It was the first double-hander I bought and I bought it for stockie-fishing [ it was all I knew then ! :) after I developed painful tendons trying to learn to cast a 9.5' 7wt single-hander, also LPXe. I used it twice, I think, and then switched right off stockie-fishing and got into salmon fishing with bigger rods. And even though the rod you lads had a go with today is a nice piece I still prefer handling a bigger and heavier rod, because, for me at any rate, the big rod is easier and more comfortable to work ! Mind you, if I could get a 12.5' 4/5 wt rod for trout fishing that might suit me just dandy ! Are such rods made/available anywhere ?
T
Quote from: Teither on April 18, 2011, 12:37:12 AM
Alan,
Kirkie thought the same as you and Malcolm. It was the first double-hander I bought and I bought it for stockie-fishing [ it was all I knew then ! :) after I developed painful tendons trying to learn to cast a 9.5' 7wt single-hander, also LPXe. I used it twice, I think, and then switched right off stockie-fishing and got into salmon fishing with bigger rods. And even though the rod you lads had a go with today is a nice piece I still prefer handling a bigger and heavier rod, because, for me at any rate, the big rod is easier and more comfortable to work ! Mind you, if I could get a 12.5' 4/5 wt rod for trout fishing that might suit me just dandy ! Are such rods made/available anywhere ?
T
I think Malcolm has a 4 or 5 weight, maybe a 6 actually. I remember he offered it to me when I hurt my hand.
Alan - that was a pretty good practise session that one, remember trying to get that drag free drift under that tree on the far bank from a spey cast? That was a VERY good exercise!
Jim
Bob Meiser does a 3/4/5/ weight 12.5 ft. It's probably best to get the blank at $225 and get a UK builder to make it up to your spec. It's over $600 for the built up rod. Meiser rods are highly regarded.
http://www.meiserflyrods.com/rodblanks.php
Malcolm
Alan
Thanks for responses re long rods. I know of Bob Meiser's fine reputation, Malcolm, but I couldn't be doing with the hassle of trading by internet in foreign currency. In addition, Malcolm, he wants to ask lots of no doubt very pertinent questions re rod/line etc specifications but I haven't a clue what all the techno stuff means. So I couldn't begin to make intelligent answers.
So Alan, and anyone else who might know, can you point me to any British makers/suppliers of good double-handed trout rods, around the 4/5 wt area ?
Thanks again,
T
Hello Teither/Jim,
Zpey Lean Green 10' #4, comes with the swanky handle, which you can remove to make it useful :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9eJce5JXc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0dqsyA9Tow&feature=related
I had one at the pond for a few hours one Sunday, p72 reply 716 on this thread.
Be happy to let you try it if you wanted to.
Tony
Tony,
Very kind of you, Tony. I've got a 10' rod - Streamflex - and I can work with it fine. I just liked the idea of having something a bit over the 12' mark, to complement my natural tendencies to laziness - where I could just wade in a few feet, or not at all, ideally, and let the line just fall off the rod tip ! :lol:
If you are back at the pond at some time it would be good to have a go with your rod. I have tried the bigger salmon version and, sadly, I didn't like it at all. The lighter weight version might indeed be just the ticket. So I look forward to seeing you again one of these Sundays, or Thursdays now, I suppose.
Incidentally, with the working light now extending beyond 8.30, and in the absence of specific mandate from Alberto on the subject :D Thursday sessions start from this week !! At least they do for me ! :lol:
T
Hello Jim,
What time do you plan to be there ?.
PM sent.
Tony
Tony,
I've been offline all day and just picked up your message. Sorry. I've just sent a reply.
J
I also went along tonight but there was no one there.
I hope to see you all next Thusday at 7.30pm.
All the best,
Gary
I was speaking to Alberto today, the casting club will be starting at 6.30pm Thursday at
Knightswood Pond.
All the best ,
Gary :)
And start it did indeed, on a cold and blustery night. We are still seduced by warm afternoons into forgetting that April evenings are just that. They are not balmy June evenings and nights. The chilly wind made using the pond a less than charming experience, our disappointment only increased by the unwelcome attentions of three men and a dug [ I'll leave you to guess which breed of dug !! ], not to mention a guitar, raucous singing, a very large naked beer belly and several containers of alcohol in the process of being consumed.
Nevertheless there was time at the start to try out Andrew Moray's 10' 4 wt Zpey, an abomination of a rod if ever there was one, but also his David Norwich 9 for a 5, that a beautiful creation if ever there was one. Many thanks, Tony, for your kindness in bringing these rods along, especially after your day spent on the Upper Clyde. And he did at least discover that casting a double-hander is an easy-peasy exercise ! :) :) Malcolm knew that too, though he only uses one hand to do it ! :lol:
We repaired to the grass, double-handers included, where, needless to relate, an attempt by Alberto to get some semblance of a summer programme agreed came to nothing. Alan and Alberto agreed to disagree - about everything and on principle, I think. But the Zoomer, to his eternal credit, managed to get me hauling a 5wt 9 footer - a most joyous experience ! :lol: Thank you, sir.
Hopefully next week we'll get a return to more settled conditions and a bigger turnoot. Mind you, if a duller evening were to discourage our band of under-the-weather troubadours, that might be no bad thing.
T
Quote from: Alan on April 29, 2011, 12:31:58 PM
why is it that it takes 5 mins to teach someone to haul but only after a year of convincing them to listen :lol:
Aye, well you now, hopefully, understand the benefit of speaking English, for the first time ! :lol: :lol: :lol: Keep up the good work !
GT
Alan,
I think that analysis is spot on. Seeing someone show me how, and getting answers/ explanations to my pertinent [to me ] questions is, and always has been, the way I learn anything best. It was the same with painting. No book, no verbiage could do it for me. The first time I saw a good painter mix his colours and use a brush I got it. The same thing , more or less, happened last night. We are agreed ! Oh frabjous day ! :) :)
GOT
My God at long last Alan you can explain something without blood coming out of my ears.
Does this mean no more techno geek ? :makefun
Gary :P
Quote from: gasman on April 29, 2011, 09:38:56 PM
My God at long last Alan you can explain something without blood coming out of my ears.
Does this mean no more techno geek ? :makefun
Gary :P
:lol:
Some times you have to probe,giving different analogies and all a sudden...........bingo!
But you cannot beat a visual analysis.
Brian
Well done Jim, perseverance pays off. Just don't let him teach you the voodoo cast - and if he gets all brillig on you just give the tove a double hander!
Quote from: Malcolm on April 29, 2011, 11:23:33 PM
Well done Jim, perseverance pays off. Just don't let him teach you the voodoo cast - and if he gets all brillig on you just give the tove a double hander!
I'm glad you got to grips with hauling Jim. It does the same job as the lower hand with the double hander, as I'm sure you recognised.
There is a point to the voodoo cast, which I must say, I doubted at first, thinking it was just being flashy.
As Alan and Scotty have both said in the past, it is great for presenting a dry fly when a spey/roll/swich cast would have drowned the fly. I have used it over the last weeks in a particular spot with a high bank behind me and an electric fence above that. It works and is worth learning if you fish rivers.
Alex
It will remain to be seen whether I can still do it next time out, of course. I've thought in the past that I'd cracked it only to be back to square 1 next time out !
Incidentally, I'm off to the North Esk tomorrow at 6am and I cannae sleep for the excitement of it all, which is why I'm posting at this ridiculous hour ! :)
T
At the pond this morning I was taken back to the music of my youth - " I'm just a lonely boy ... " and " Where have all the flowers gone ? "......bloody wimps !! :lol: ... unless, of course, some of you were mad enough to be away fishing ..?? :lol:
LOT
Exponentially excremental ! Lifted the wrong rod from the house - a 8.5ft 4 wt Streamflex. Anyway, I had a throw with a Sage ZXL 9ft 5wt yesterday at GAC and liked it very much. Have you [ or anyone else ] got any thoughts on that one ? It's a hell of a price, of course, and I'd need to sell some other rods to pay for it ... but ....
T
Jim,
I tried the 4 weight - I am sure Fred bought it. Maybe the best modern rod I have used. You can often pick them up second hand for very reasonable prices. One of the best places to pick up gear is the Fly Fishing Forums. I just checked and it appears one sold in the last couple of days for ?250 - it may still be for sale.
Quote from: Alan on May 09, 2011, 05:37:41 PM
Ol one eye teither is turning single handed :lol:
One eye nowadays, but still two toecaps !! Get to your room ! :)
OOET
Hello all i fancy coming along with my son & his pal tomorrow is it 630pm start & do we just turn up & pay our ?1.I am still fairly new to river fly fishing & self taught hopefully i don't have too many bad habits.Cheers
Light showers, strong gusty wind W to WSW, cool 10?C.
Quote from: fishtales on May 12, 2011, 10:59:25 AM
Light showers, strong gusty wind W to WSW, cool 10?C.
That's good looks like it will be lesson on fishing against the wind. :D Cheers
Takes me all my time to guess the weather day to day never mind long range :)
June - Scorchio
July - Scorchio
August - El Pissadoona
September - El Pissadoona
October - Brrrrrrr a Freezo
We can revisit my prediction in the close season and see how I got on, is there a prize?
Quote from: Otter Spotter on May 12, 2011, 05:25:55 PM
June - Scorchio
July - Scorchio
August - El Pissadoona
September - El Pissadoona
October - Brrrrrrr a Freezo
We can revisit my prediction in the close season and see how I got on, is there a prize?
There sure is... Fu*kallio :lol:
The weather tonight at the pond was dry(I am glad to say) and a good turn out.
[attachimg=1]
The coffee and cake went down well to.
[attachimg=2]
All the best,
Gary :D
Good to meet with Rabmax, his son and friend tonight. Hope you all enjoyed it. Thanks to Gary for the cake tonight.
I saw the hole in the weather but wasn't sure how fast it would arrive. I was going to say it would be there between 7 and 9 pm but then you would have thought I was good at this :8)
I think there will be four of us coming along this week & it looks like it's going to be windy again.I will bring my Sage rod & Wild Fisher line again as Alan loved it. :tongue2 .Hopefully i can get out of the breaking the wrist habit. :D
I was down at the river for a couple of hours today with the salmon rod. I could dap 15 yards of 11 weight sinking line. If you can cast 12 yards in this wind you have my admiration!
Allan
If the weather is like this on Thursday night, I will have my feet up in front of the fire with a cup of
coffee and slice of cake. :D
All the best,
Gary
Quote from: Alan on May 23, 2011, 04:54:43 PM
anyone for a 'wind' theme casting club extravaganza? been thinking about this, wind appears to be a difficulty for some, so...a dedicated casting in wind thing may be useful.
Aye, within reason, Alan. I bypassed the pond yesterday - I'm assuming everyone did - but I went to GAC in the afternoon to try the ZXL 4 wt.. Casting directly against the wind the line, quite literally, flew back to me at one point so the tryout was very
brief, and useless. I'll have another go when some calm has returned to the elements. But managing casts in windy conditions is, I believe, an essential skill so your proposal is something we all should be signing up to.
WOT
Hello Alan,
Quote from: Alan on May 24, 2011, 09:31:26 AMthe only way i could stop the leader blowing back was to land the fly before the line and leader.
Italian stylee ? :wink:
Hello Jim,
Quote from: Teither on May 24, 2011, 12:30:37 AMI went to GAC in the afternoon to try the ZXL 4 wt.
Nah, give David Norwich a call :D
Tony
Quote from: Andrew Moray on May 24, 2011, 10:29:28 AM
give David Norwich a call :D
I've cast a few of these rods and none came close to the Sage ZXL. I'd go for the Sage myself. :D
I thought I was the only one daft enough to be out fishing yesterday and I gave up after a couple of hours - had a seatrout in that time though!
I started out with a powerful 8 weight setup fishing across and down as you do for salmon. The wind was blowing upstream at about 30mph by my estimation but was gusting to about 50mph. Very difficult. I was doing single hand spey casts and the fly would land land at least 30 feet away from where it was aimed. If a strong gust hit my D loop the line would whip off the water and land directly upstream.
I gave up after 30 minutes and moved onto the heavy double handed setup with an 11 weight sinking line. This was much better but still unpleasant to say the least and it was always a guess as to where the fly would land. I gave up - even with the big rod - after fishing down the run once.
So for me at least I'll always cast with the wind if it is more than a breeze. Even a moderate force 4 makes accurate fishing very difficult. I prefer to make the wind my friend rather than try to fight it.
Admin,
I've only had a brief throw with the 5wt ZXL and it seemed an excellent bit of equipment. I know that Alex had a go with your 4 wt and also liked it. Indeed , he recommended the 4 wt, sometimes to be used with a 5 wt line. So that's what I want to try out, even tho' casting along the side wall of GAC is hardly a comprehensive test. But I want to try the Hardy Sintrix in these sizes too. I think that, for me at any rate, they'll have to be good to beat the ZXL for feel ! :)
Tony,
The problem for me is that I wouldn't know where/how to begin specifying to David Norwich what I was looking for. Could I just ask him to build me a ZXL ? :lol:. Actually, if this kind of windy weather keeps up I might just go with the long pole used by the guy you know who fishes the Paisley Cart !! :)
Alan,
If you mean that you went to the pond on Sunday I think you can now assume the mantle of " Knightswood Nutter " ! :lol:
T
Quote from: Teither on May 24, 2011, 05:35:35 PM
Admin,
I've only had a brief throw with the 5wt ZXL and it seemed an excellent bit of equipment. I know that Alex had a go with your 4 wt and also liked it. Indeed , he recommended the 4 wt, sometimes to be used with a 5 wt line. So that's what I want to try out, even tho' casting along the side wall of GAC is hardly a comprehensive test. But I want to try the Hardy Sintrix in these sizes too. I think that, for me at any rate, they'll have to be good to beat the ZXL for feel ! :)
Tony,
The problem for me is that I wouldn't know where/how to begin specifying to David Norwich what I was looking for. Could I just ask him to build me a ZXL ? :lol:. Actually, if this kind of windy weather keeps up I might just go with the long pole used by the guy you know who fishes the Paisley Cart !! :)
Alan,
If you mean that you went to the pond on Sunday I think you can now assume the mantle of " Knightswood Nutter " ! :lol:
T
It might be worth a visit to David Norwich though. He badge engineers rods for at least one very tiny supplier (there may be more), but it makes no sense paying more or even just going through a third party that might be here today and gone tomorrow when the organ grinder himself is so close at hand and can provide a rod to your spec. and offer a personal service. That's certainly what I'd do if I was considering a rod from a smaller scale builder like Norwich. If going for an "off the shelf" I'd go for a well known maker with all the guaranteed backup myself.
Jim,
Good luck with your rod hunt. No one can really help in the matter of rod selection sadly - you have to make up your own mind as they are very personal.
This is very important - test the rod hardest at the distance it will be used - on a river this will be with between 10 and 30ft of line beyond the tip ring. If it is on a loch you will certainly have to cast much further at times. I'm sure this isn't the case with you but very often people try to cast into the next county no matter what the rod is used for.
I'll be searching for a new rod myself. I've been practising almost daily for a casting competition. This morning I hit my longest ever cast with a 5 weight, 10 minutes later I was looking at a SAGE TCR 5 10 piece. The butt section exploded and the section above also broke. I've never experienced anything like it.
I bought the rod very cheaply second hand from a friend 6 weeks ago and I'd been using it before that. It was quite heavily bashed about as my friend used it with an 8 weight for seatrout fishing so it could be that the butt section had been damaged and as the rod is 8 years old that would seem the most likely explanation.
Quote from: Malcolm on May 25, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
Jim,
I'll be searching for a new rod myself. I've been practising almost daily for a casting competition. This morning I hit my longest ever cast with a 5 weight, 10 minutes later I was looking at a SAGE TCR 5 10 piece. The butt section exploded and the section above also broke. I've never experienced anything like it.
Malcolm,
That's not good news. Mind you, I've told you before ... softly softly castee 3 inch Monkey ! :lol:
J
Hello Alan,
Quote from: Alan on May 24, 2011, 01:26:05 PM
precicely, having looked further into it, it appears i invented most of it.
It's your modesty that makes you such a great man :wink:
Hello Jim,
Quote from: Teither on May 24, 2011, 05:35:35 PMThe problem for me is that I wouldn't know where/how to begin specifying to David Norwich what I was looking for. Could I just ask him to build me a ZXL ?
I'd imagine that's how it would work :D
r.e. Sage ZXL, I've never fished with one, but same as Fred, the couple of guys I know that have one, think very highly of them.
QuoteActually, if this kind of windy weather keeps up I might just go with the long pole used by the guy you know who fishes the Paisley Cart !! :)
Will find out his leader and fly setup and get back to you :D
ATB
Tony
Casting into the wind on Thursday night was hard with a DT line.
After a coffee I changed reels and tried casting with WF Wildfisher River Don, a lot better.
Still have a couple of things to work on.
Thanks to Alex and Allan for the helpful tips.
Today I put these helpful tips to practise with a couple of fish.
All the best,
Gary :D
Had a go with the Hardy Syntrix 9 for 5 wt today, at GAC. Even into a very stiff breeze it went beautifully. Aweman was there and liked it too, I think. I'd say that even with little or no hauling it gave a bit more to the line speed than did the ZXL but possibly with not as much feel. What should a girl do ?? :)
T
QuoteWhat should a girl do ??
Buy shoes :)
Seriously Jim, both rods will be eminently capable of casting at river distances. All rods are the same in that respect, so it is really just a question of which you prefer.
Alex
Quote from: buster1980 on May 31, 2011, 11:15:19 PM
Jim have you tried looking for a second hand Sage XP.
Alan does the club own its own measuring tape, cones, hoops etc? I was hoping to do some accuracy stuff on Thursday.
Craig
Craig, I have a few hoops,cones, tape. The trouble is I'm heading down south on Thursday for a few days, so I won't be there this week. I'm a bit busy tomorrow night too, so I won't get a chance to drop them off to anyone.
I have some small hoops and a tape.
Alan its your turn for the cakes. :P
All the best,
Gary :D
A good turn out tonight at the casting club,had a cast with a Hardy Syntrix 9 foot 5wt very light in the
hand but at £600 pounds :shock:
Alan thanks for the tips on my back cast ,I still have lot of work to do.
All the best,
Gary :D
Quote from: gasman on June 10, 2011, 12:54:32 AM
A good turn out tonight at the casting club,had a cast with a Hardy Syntrix 9 foot 5wt very light in the
hand but at £600 pounds :shock:
All the best,
Gary :D
Aye, indeed, Gary. Many thanks also to Brian McG for the tryout of numerous rods, including 4 and 5 wts in Syntrix and ZXL and for the helpful casting advice. However, I've decided that I'm now finally at the end of the road in my quest for the perfect rod - for all species and in all conditions. Three cheers for the DTX 15 ft 10/11 wt !!! :lol:
T
Quote from: Teither on June 10, 2011, 01:08:31 AM
Three cheers for the DTX 15 ft 10/11 wt !!! :lol:
Brilliant Jim :lol:
So what's the overall verdict on the sintrix? I've been dying to try one even though I bought a TCX... (which is just brilliant btw!) Gary any more feedback? Anyone else too?
After an Invite from Alberto I attended the GCC last night . From the start I was made very welcome from the people there allthough I had met a few previously.
The standard of overhead casting was very high and Malcolm's style of Casting is unorthodox but precise and I can see myself using some of them. Also nice to see were some youngsters and the casting I watched from them was very good. Craigs casts are a joy to watch and I think he looks for perfection,no bad thing.
Scott the Sintrex is a lovely rod to cast and for a " Fast Actioned rod" it is a rod with plenty of feeling and is softer than most who try it imagined . It has improved my accuracy due to it tracking true I think.
Tom you have made the right choice ,utilise what you have and adapt to suit :D
Ok to Alan, allthough we had a tiff on another Forum no grudges were evident and Like Adults we spoke amicably . To be honest he is the same in the Flesh as behind a Keyboard ie he will never agree with any sort of logical straight answer it allways has to be some sort of cryptic game he plays. Thats fine with me but he could make it a lot easier to understand his point of view. His overhead casting is nice.Alan a spey cast is the repositioning of the line prior to a forward cast ie lift the line create an anchor at 45 degrees or whatever and go forward at 180 degrees to the anchor ( I know you know that) and the point of the cast is to get the fly back in the stream fishing.. But you showed me a squigly line cast but that was not what I asked :)
I can sort of understand why Alan goes to way out lochs to fish,he must have some great debates with himself what fly/line/jacket/boots/hat/ etc etc to use :) You see where I am coming from. :lol:
Alan all the above is Tongue in cheek. I enjoyed my night and your casting is very good. Thanks for the coffee
Brian
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 10, 2011, 08:58:48 AM
Scott the Sintrex is a lovely rod to cast and for a " Fast Actioned rod" it is a rod with plenty of feeling and is softer than most who try it imagined . It has improved my accuracy due to it tracking true I think.
Alan a spey cast is the repositioning of the line prior to a forward cast ie lift the line create an anchor at 45 degrees or whatever and go forward at 180 degrees to the anchor ( I know you know that) and the point of the cast is to get the fly back in the stream fishing..
I can sort of understand why Alan goes to way out lochs to fish,he must have some great debates with himself what fly/line/jacket/boots/hat/ etc etc to use :)
Thanks Brian - interesting to hear. Looking forward to getting my hands on one in a month :)
I could be annoying and say an overhead cast is also the repositioning of line prior to a forward cast.
To me a spey is a cast used to change direction that involves a d-loop and an anchor on the water. (Unless of course you want to include a switch cast as a spey cast which blows that definition out the water :lol: ) Ah but who cares, it's a grey area!
Quote from: scotty9 on June 10, 2011, 09:26:36 AM
Thanks Brian - interesting to hear. Looking forward to getting my hands on one in a month :)
I could be annoying and say an overhead cast is also the repositioning of line prior to a forward cast.
To me a spey is a cast used to change direction that involves a d-loop and an anchor on the water. (Unless of course you want to include a switch cast as a spey cast which blows that definition out the water :lol: ) Ah but who cares, it's a grey area!
Yes Scott you could say that. But If I asked you to demonstrate a Spey cast??? :)
Brian
do you guys ever actually just go fishing? :lol:
Quote from: admin on June 10, 2011, 09:54:35 AM
do you guys ever actually just go fishing? :lol:
I hike up the mountains into perfectly clear water, stalk very large trout then I stop. I crouch beside the bank, keeping out of sight of the fish. I then start to analyse the situation, I see where he's lying, I see what water currents are at play. I work out exactly how I need to approach it. I then take the rod in my and think for a minute. Upon realising I can't get the right name for the cast, I stand up and go off in search of grass to have a cast and think about it. It just didn't feel right. :lol:
Brian, I'd ask what the definition of the spey cast was in the given situation :makefun
Sorry - I'm clutching at any distraction to get me away from exam revision, I have two tomorrow :( 6 hours of bloody exams on a saturday. Then another the following saturday!
Quote from: scotty9 on June 10, 2011, 10:08:43 AM
I hike up the mountains into perfectly clear water, stalk very large trout then I stop. I crouch beside the bank, keeping out of sight of the fish. I then start to analyse the situation, I see where he's lying, I see what water currents are at play. I work out exactly how I need to approach it. I then take the rod in my and think for a minute. Upon realising I can't get the right name for the cast, I stand up and go off in search of grass to have a cast and think about it. It just didn't feel right. :lol:
It's you own fault for going fishing with Alan. :lol:
Good to meet you again Brian.
I wish there was a generic name for rolls, switches, pokes and speys etc. To me it seems you could stand in the middle of a river and by positioning or repositioning the loops you can cast anywhere in the circle around you. Nothing very clever is involved but there are probably a dozen different names for the casts. I syarted a thread on this last year I think.
There's also different names for the same cast. Last night I spent most of my time practising very touchy-feely left and right hooks on a cast variously known as the "low spey", "pendulum spey" and by the Italians as the "totally under tip roll" (really slips off the tongue that does). They're all the same!
Quote from: scotty9 on June 10, 2011, 10:08:43 AM
I hike up the mountains into perfectly clear water, stalk very large trout then I stop. I crouch beside the bank, keeping out of sight of the fish. I then start to analyse the situation, I see where he's lying, I see what water currents are at play. I work out exactly how I need to approach it. I then take the rod in my and think for a minute. Upon realising I can't get the right name for the cast, I stand up and go off in search of grass to have a cast and think about it. It just didn't feel right. :lol:
Brian, I'd ask what the definition of the spey cast was in the given situation :makefun
Sorry - I'm clutching at any distraction to get me away from exam revision, I have two tomorrow :( 6 hours of bloody exams on a saturday. Then another the following saturday!
Hi Scott, when mucking about at the side of the pond I asked Allan how he does a Single Spey. Thats all. There is no hidden trick question. I like Single hand Spey Casting and the different ways other people execute the cast so I can Learn from it. Most of my Fishing is Rivers and I spend nearly every day on them,so use these casts alot.
Brian
No need to justify yourself Brian! I just like being difficult! :lol:
I too use spey casts all the time regardless of whether I'm on a river or loch, I don't think it actually matters. I'm generally not fishing a downstream swing so when I'm using speys on the river fishing upstream it's for the same kind of things as I would on stillwater - changing direction if you see a fish, management of slack line, easy pickups, doing it for fun and so on!
And you're right, you learn loads from other people - it's a great thing about this sport. I learned a huge stack of brilliant tips and tricks in Melbourne at the sexyloops meet and picked up a whole stack more fishing with Paul for a week - was bloody great. The secret is the more people you can talk to about it, the better you get - through knowledge and application. Reason why casting clubs are great actually.
Quote from: Alan on June 10, 2011, 01:51:23 PM
the first thing i try to assertain is why the question is asked in the first place, helps me work out the right answer rather than the first answer, im still trying to work out what the point was :lol:
the squigley line cast was a snake roll, it is a recognised cast, lets me cast at any angle and get a reposition very straight to my target, the snake roll is interesting in that its entirely continuous, this means you can have line speed before the line touches the water for an extra boost in the out going cast, its a very easy cast do learn or do if you can make a D loop.
all these casts and traditional speys are just repositionings of the line, the roll off the water is pretty much the same for all, i like the micheal mauri idea of understanding how the components of the cast work then doing it your own way, the only right or wrong is a tidy anchor, d loop and a decent loop,
i just tried out a loomis NRX, 740 quid i think the guy said but i wasnt listening, tried the zenith sintrix last night, the nrx bends further down the blank, muscle cars both in a 5 weight, interesting that most of the new uber expensive rods bend further past the tip, smooth is the new stiff.
Alan there was no point,it was a general question to see how you teach the SINGLE SPEY not the snake roll.
Don't look for thing's that aren't there.
Some times when Instructors get together they seem to think the other is trying to catch them out,not in this case it was just a question on teaching a cast. Honest. I also asked Malcolm a few Questions on why he did certain things. Do you have a complex :shock:
I enjoyed the night but as you say we could have went to the Pub but you would have argued which one so to save an argument I never went :)
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 10, 2011, 04:02:36 PM
. Do you have a complex
Brian,
He has ... and it's a very complex complex ! ! I've previously advised him re the capacity of NHS to help but he just ignores all counsel he gets ! :lol: I now do believe he just enjoys being a difficult wee rascal ! Last week his theory was that tight loops are crap and you cast better and further with wide loops !! :)
Anyway, I went to fish a wee reservoir today. I'd one tailing loop right at the start of the day and a couple of catches in the long grass. Then I remembered to focus on " Cast high " and thereafter cast my LPXe 9/5 consistently well all day, at least until a herd of coos, calves and Tyson the bull appeared ! That ended my day! I hooked and lost two [ fish ] and had several other offers. That's a first class performance for me ! :) Thanks again Brian.
T
Quote from: Alan on June 10, 2011, 05:44:53 PM
should add, some of the guys said your spey delivery could use some work :lol:
Well it certainly wasn't me and as Brian is a much better spey caster than most it's only true insofar as all our deliveries can do with improvement.
I think I would reverse the way that casting is often taught by focusing on results first. Goal driven casting if you like.
Results being distance, accuracy and managing the presentation to the trout in any conditions. This last may mean you have to use a spey with an aerial mend but it is not the goal. The goal is getting the fly to the trout in a way that the trout will accept. It may mean that you need to get rid of a tailing loop as it snags the fly. However if someone is better at all three than you are then that person is a better caster. No ifs or buts.
In order to achieve those results you may have to focus on particular aspects - like line speed or loop control but if you are achieving the results then overly concerning oneself with form is plain daft. In my opinion of course.
This is the way performance sportsmen think and the approach advocated by one of the greatest thinkers about athletics in modern times: Michael Johnson - who still holds the world 400m record. His thinking can be simply summarised -
1. What do I want to achieve
2. How do I get there
So look at a practical example: you want to achieve a 50 ft back hand roll cast with your 8ft 4 weight which is something most of the experienced casters there last night can do.
How do you get there: line speed obviously. So how do you get that: forming a nice D loop and developing a sense of where the anchor must be placed. Have the correct length of line beyond the tip, hauling at the right time, putting in a power snap (never heard of that until Brian said I was doing it!). None of these is a goal in itself but rather the building block towards the goal. That is the kind of thinking that appeals to me.
Alan Calm down, all my casting needs work that is why I ask so many questions(and Travelled through to Glasgow). If one accepts the plaudits he should also accept the criticisms. I would never criticise anyone unless it was constructive. You have a strong Imagination but I still say there is a real good bloke hiding behind that facade (my Ignore button has been pressed)
Malcolm you are the voice of reason I would happily pay you for advice and when I come next week there is something I would like to work on if it is OK with you.
Regards
Brian
This casting stuff is all far too serious, heavy and poseurish for me. :gay4
Think I'll have to take up something uncouth like salmon fishing , probably spinning, just to get the forum back down to earth. :lol:
Fred Fly casting/Fishing is full of contradictions and personal opinions. To teach imo means loads of different things having an open mind and approachability spring to mind.
Have a look at Malcolms reply above and it is like he has taken his statement from a teaching manual. I could learn a lot from him.
Regards
Brian
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 10, 2011, 07:45:00 PM
Have a look at Malcolms reply above and it is like he has taken his statement from a teaching manual. I could learn a lot from him.
I agree. I had a short spell casting with Malcolm last year up at the Crask. I too could learn a lot from him. Same as I learned a lot from Alex, long before he was an instructor. Just as in any other walk of life "qualifications" are not everything. Experience in my view is just as, if not more, important.
I know of one member here who hired a "guide" / instructor a few years back and it ruined his fishing experience. In fact at the end of the day he follwed the "expert" up a pool and just did what he had always done in the past. . He caught and the "expert" blanked.
Hey this thread changed a bit since I was last here!
It looks ok to me Scott :) I think that GCC is great and next week I am going to get Malcolm, if he will, work with me on a cast from my left shoulder with a low delivery and side cut. Stewart saw a big Trout the other night( he doesn't know that I was watching where he was so now 2 of us know :D) and also one that must be big as it requires the cast above to even get near it. I struggle at times off shoulder as I don't practice enough. Isn't it strange that at times we get bogged down practicing a specific cast that then leaves all the other casts underdeveloped,or am I alone in this? Take even the overhead cast I don't use it often so it then gets pushed to the side and becomes ropey. A bit like my spey delivery according to Alan and some of the other Guys :(. But I will work on that and get them more precise. It is strange because I use that cast nearly every day but then again I see it from a different angle.
Regards
Brian
Quote from: wee bri on June 10, 2011, 10:41:34 PM
On my own, I've been practising a cast.....on grass....of what I think is a single spey cast using a single handed rod.
There is every possibilty it is in fact, nothing of the sort.
Being a Glass Half Full sort of guy Brian there is the possibility you are doing it right :D
Speak Soon.
Brian
This is a friendly forum, so we don't use ignore buttons here. The delete button on occasion, but never the ignore.
This casting club is pretty unique and has helped a lot of people. Its success speaks for itself.
As I understand there has never been any ulterior financial motive. This possibly accounts for a lot of its success. Knowing at least some of the prime movers quite well, I'm pretty sure none of them would like to see it turn into some kind of sausage factory run to churn out people with "qualifications" for money. That could kill it stone dead.
QuoteIsn't it strange that at times we get bogged down practicing a specific cast that then leaves all the other casts underdeveloped,or am I alone in this?
Definitely the case with me Brian. I really should try to get better off my "wrong" shoulder, or even better, do what I saw Squigster doing the other week and learn to double haul left handed.
Alex
Quote from: admin on June 10, 2011, 11:44:33 PM
This is a friendly forum, so we don't use ignore buttons here. The delete button on occasion, but never the ignore.
Fred don't worry (private joke with Alan) I know you have a friendly forum and I at no time want to rock the boat. I am capable of having any debate with anyone without any serious tantrums and anything I say should be looked at in that manner.
But if you feel I have lowered the tone of the Forum feel free to deal with it as you seem fit.
The GCC is imo important not just because of any one person but for what it gives others. I said before, when I attended I noticed some young guys turn up for some tuition, they're important as one thing that is lacking in Angling at the moment is youngsters and all of the guys that attend are more than capable of teaching them something.
Craig I will do that no problem. Brian further to my pm I look forward to seeing you. Please send me your email address and I will let you know what I have planned. Alex my left shoulder is pants. Myself and Malcolm were trying to hit the Flag in the pond of our "wrong" shoulder we did ok but I could have done better.
Bye
Brian
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 10, 2011, 10:22:20 PM
It looks ok to me Scott :) I think that GCC is great and next week I am going to get Malcolm, if he will, work with me on a cast from my left shoulder with a low delivery and side cut.
Regards
Brian
No problem Brian. I warn you though that Alan has described that cast variously as "a classic casting fault" and once as "so offensive it makes me sick". Or maybe that was a generic description he was applying to my casting in general. I wonder what compliment he will use describe it when I get these right and left hooks going properly.
It's hard for Mr Pretty Loops to stop complimenting people.
Quote from: admin on June 11, 2011, 12:41:41 AM
This casting club is pretty unique and has helped a lot of people. Its success speaks for itself.
As I understand there has never been any ulterior financial motive. This possibly accounts for a lot of its success. Knowing at least some of the prime movers quite well, I'm pretty sure none of them would like to see it turn into some kind of sausage factory run to churn out people with "qualifications" for money. That could kill it stone dead.
Absolutely correct, Fred !
Just for a wee while there what I originally took for a bit of banter in a light vein seemed to be taking on a different edge.
In my more dissolute days of the past I used, very occasionally, to visit a particular pub in the Southside of Glasgow. It was quite quite well known as a haunt of various minor local celebrities .. journalists, cooncillors etc. These guys used to establish themselves in one particular spot in the bar and regale themselves, each other, and other poor souls within earshot, with their views and opinions on all manner of subjects. As the evenings wore on these discourses would get louder and more pompous by the minute. The part of the bar they inhabited became known as " Fannies' Corner ".
I hope the weather will take a turn for the better tomorrow ! :)
T
Quote from: Ardbeg on June 12, 2011, 12:16:12 AM
Smurf Cast™
:roflmao :roflmao - I don't think your taking this casting stuff seriously enough :D
Norm
I just checked on Sexyloops. No mention of The Smurf Cast yet, but it's only a matter of time. I can hardly wait until the new special Smurf Cast lines appear for sale on 'some forum' or other................. :lol:
Quote from: admin on June 11, 2011, 12:41:41 AM
This casting club is pretty unique and has helped a lot of people. Its success speaks for itself.
As I understand there has never been any ulterior financial motive. This possibly accounts for a lot of its success. Knowing at least some of the prime movers quite well, I'm pretty sure none of them would like to see it turn into some kind of sausage factory run to churn out people with "qualifications" for money. That could kill it stone dead.
I don't think that will happen Fred whatever gave you that Idea.? What I saw was a group of guys enjoying the casting and the banter.
Same as FCC. :D
bRIAN
Quote from: Alan on June 12, 2011, 02:18:15 PM
now for the interesting bit, Duchy has never had a casting lesson
Which goes to show ........?........ there is more to catching fish than qualifications or "official" tactics. The best angler I ever fished with would have been at least 120 now. Long dead and an artiste of upstream wet fly from an age when casting lessons had not even been though of. Even allowing for the fact I was a kid at the time and probably easy to impress, this man was special.
I'm not sure what it proves either other than some have a talent or special aptitude for things that no amount of lessons, practice or instruction will being out in Mr Average if the latent talent is not there to start with. The best angler I know, by a mile, is Alex, no one else comes close, and he was good long before he was qualified. He has a dedication and persistence that most don't, certainly not me anyway.
Sausage machines churn out sausages, not fillet steaks! :lol:
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Which goes to show ........?........ there is more to catching fish than qualifications or "official" tactics. The best angler I ever fished with would have been at least 120 now. Long dead and an artiste of upstream wet fly from an age when casting lessons had not even been though of. Even allowing for the fact I was a kid at the time and probably easy to impress, this man was special.
I'm not sure what it proves either other than some have a talent or special aptitude for things that no amount of lessons, practice or instruction will being out in Mr Average if the latent talent is not there to start with. The best angler I know, by a mile, is Alex, no one else comes close, and he was good long before he was qualified. He has a dedication and persistence that most don't, certainly not me anyway.
Sausage machines churn out sausages, not fillet steaks! :lol:
Yes Fred I agree that some of the best Anglers have no Qualifications and don't want or need them. Would you take driving Lessons from someone not qualified, how did you learn your Trade,from someone not qualified? There is a lot of Casting Tuition going on at the minute and I will continue to do so,as long as I enjoy it. My "qualification" shows I have Insurance,CRB checked,First aid cert and child protection cert although these thing are not needed and in no way proves my competence to teach, in this day and age it gives some sort of peace of mind to the people who pay good money for tuition. Casting Instructors will always have Knockers for one reason or another,from my perspective I don't know why, only they will know. :? Casting Clubs are testament to the growing want/need for tuition and IMO they will only get bigger. Maybe you should try to organise one in your area and see the benefits first hand.
Most of the Instructors I have come across are Fillet Steaks :D
Brian
Sorry Brian, no offence intended, but I don't think comparing casting instruction to driving lessons rings true for me. I wouldn't like to have surgery performed on me by an unqualified doctor either. Sure, if I'm paying for any service I want to be sure the provider knows what he's at, but like most anglers I don't pay for casting lessons or fly tying instruction, but that's not the point of Alan's post or my reply to it, rather that I'm sure the Dutch fellow could teach us all something. It would be a mistake to dismiss him because he does not hold a bit of paper, just as I would have been foolish to ignore what I learned from old Geordie back in the 1960s or Alex a few years ago before he had passed his fishing driving test.
No offence taken Fred. I understand what you are saying and agree totally,we could/should be able to learn things from different people.
I try not defend Instructors(full time job) but remember most of the casts taught are standard Casts. What you do with them after that is down to the individual. I know that Instructors in general are appreciated. It is only people who want to use them that will see the value in them and some of the others who just point blank refuse to admit to needing to use them for reasons of their own, sometimes become the knockers.
Brian
I think the point that Fred sums up perfectly at the end, is that great anglers or casters for that matter or those who are both aren't necessarily born out of instruction but rather a perseverence to do well, to be good maybe to be the best.
Another point is that a good caster does not necessarily make a good instructor. Teaching is a skill in itself and probably more important than the technical ability of the teacher.
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 01:05:56 PM
Another point is that a good caster does not necessarily make a good instructor. Teaching is a skill in itself and probably more important than the technical ability of the teacher.
Mostly agree. But a
qualified instructor (in any field of enterprise) should have been required to demonstrate (to some level or other) that they can both perform the skill and teach it.
On the few occasions that I have been paid to take folks fly-fishing, only to discover that they have never held a fly rod, I am required to show them how it is done, explain how it is done (and why), and help them acheive enough competence such that they can enjoy the outing without harming themselves (or me!). Most first-time clients are intent on catching a fish, but many find pleasure in increasing distance, accuracy or presentation
if the worth and uses of each aspect of casting is explained.
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 01:05:56 PM
Another point is that a good caster does not necessarily make a good instructor. Teaching is a skill in itself and probably more important than the technical ability of the teacher.
I agree again Fred(not much of a debate if we keep on agreeing :D)
One of the criteria set out in the current assessments(GAIA) is that the person being assessed must be able to " explain ,demonstrate and teach" the specific cast. Ok it still does not prove that you are a good teacher but I think you would be found out quick enough.
I still say that some the best Anglers are not Instructors but I have also seen great anglers who are crap at casting.
I think with casting most people could learn to cast really well but they don't have to because the catch fish anyway. Happy days.
Nobody makes people do anything,they do it for all sorts of reasons. They aren't harming anybody(Instructors) so why should people try and down them all the time. A reason I was crap at school is because I was a bit of a lad and therefore was shown no encouragement (my fault) but I loved art only because the teacher must have seen that I lacked confidence(due to being called an Idiot all the time) I am crap at Art
but enjoyed every minute due to being encouraged /Good Teacher. So you learn from all sorts, tips on how to teach. I use lots of positives and hide the negatives. :D
Brian
All these acronyms are a bit confusing for us regular blokes who enjoy just going fishing. :lol: Would you say GAIA was one of the better organizations or are they all much the same?
I would say much the same. We are all (i think)just regular guys who happen to have a passion for casting/angling and wish to share our Knowledge with others. Some for monetary gains others for pleasure.
I think bridges have to built between the organisations and I try my best but we all have to have the same attitude.
Brian
That's very positive Brian. I'd heard that the APGAI or AAPGAI or whatever they are called were a bit aloof and thought they were a bit special compared to the rest, that the FFF guys were really the international top dogs and everyone was desperate to out-loop everyone else. :lol:
Just kidding, I think it's a credit to all you guys that you are willing to give your time as you do. Certainly the Glasgow Club has been a huge success and we have the members and new instructors it has helped right here to prove it. :D
I put up a post about the EFFA masters here http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=14737.msg153449#msg153449
I had a try at the whole test at the club one day last winter and it's interesting to try! I'll print it out in case anyone wants to try it one evening.
My view on instructors is simple. I've said this before. If I wanted to learn how to do something I would only go to an instructor who could do it and can show me how: "Tell me and I forget, show me and I remember, involve me and I understand".
So if I want to learn how to cast 40m of sunk line salmon fly or cast a size 2 bunny 80ft on an 11 weight pike line I'd go to someone who can show me, then involve me.
I know there are top coaches in sports that can't do what their pupils can do but that is usually at the extremes and the coaches will then show videos and the like. The casts I have described above are bread and butter for those disciplines and aren't dependent on extreme fitness, just technique.
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 02:40:23 PM
That's very positive Brian. I'd heard that the APGAI or AAPGAI or whatever they are called were a bit aloof and thought they were a bit special compared to the rest, that the FFF guys were really the international top dogs and everyone was desperate to out-loop everyone else. :lol:
I had heard the same (not kidding) I would be telling lies if I said I hadn't seen it. Like everything in life there are some who think they are better than others. That's their problem. My old mate used to say to me "man mind thy own". I will not say where it happened suffice to say if it happened again I would deal with it differently
Brian
Quote from: Alan on June 14, 2011, 09:04:24 PM
i think what i got was just a wake up call to the standard of european fishers
It may just be the home benchmark is short
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 14, 2011, 04:42:33 PM
I had heard the same (not kidding) I would be telling lies if I said I hadn't seen it.
I don't doubt it Brian. Fly fishing is full of people with serious ego disorders who take themselves far too seriously. You can't beat the ordinary, straight say it to your face kinda guy! :D
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 09:22:36 PM
I don't doubt it Brian. Fly fishing is full of people with serious ego disorders who take themselves far too seriously. You can't beat the ordinary, straight say it to your face kinda guy! :D
Fred if I have something to say to to guy I must do it right away. I cannot sleep if I have let it go. I used to be different years ago,not anymore.
You have a pm.
Brian
I have added you to the instructor's website page Brian. It's reserved for honest chaps, so I'm not sure how Scott got in there. :lol: (just kidding Scott)
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?board=212.0
Quote from: admin on June 14, 2011, 10:05:07 PM
I have added you to the instructor's website page Brian. It's reserved for honest chaps, so I'm not sure how Scott got in there. :lol: (just kidding Scott)
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?board=212.0
Hey! :lol:
Totally unrelated to anything this next bit but it fits the casting thread well. Have a look at how brilliant this is, an 11 year old getting the recognition of passing the FFF CI test because he was technically good enough, new the theory well and could obviously explain it/teach it to the assessors (who were board of govenors of the FFF!) http://www.sexyloops.com/indexmon.shtml
Quote from: Alan on June 15, 2011, 12:04:28 AM
but they can teach us so much,
Don't exaggerate Alan, only football, tennis, rugby, fishing, fly casting, etc etc etc etc :lol: Never forget the signs that Wee Eck put up at the airports a few years back; Scotland is the best small country in the world. :roll:
Seriously though, you do have a point, we tend not to be winners and spend too much of our time looking back over a dram or ten to halcyon days that never really existed. I think we have discussed this before. It's part of the culture I suppose.
Quote from: Alan on June 15, 2011, 12:04:28 AM
i think there is an internal rivalry thing between organisations in the UK, but its gradually healing as people become more aware that they just offer the same thing,
it always struck me as strange that instructors pay more to do it than they would make professionally, admirable but odd.
I think it will change but like everything else we have to work at it. I organise some of the events in Scotland for GAIA and I would honestly invite anybody to join in(no ulterior motive). I would talk to anybody,prince or a pauper.
Some Instructors do make a living but as above you have to work at it. Nobody will bring money to your door
Brian
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 15, 2011, 09:33:06 AM
Some Instructors do make a living but as above you have to work at it. Nobody will bring money to your door
This needs a culture change if more are going to be able to make some money. Many anglers in Scotland don't even want to pay for their fishing. In many cases it's something I have sympathy with while at the same time realizing than free=worthless in the eyes of many of our countrymen = not worth looking after. Just look at the state of lochs on Rannoch Moor. :?
Quote from: admin on June 15, 2011, 09:52:38 AM
This needs a culture change if more are going to be able to make some money. Many anglers in Scotland don't even want to pay for their fishing. In many cases it's something I have sympathy with while at the same time realizing than free=worthless in the eyes of many of our countrymen = not worth looking after. Just look at the state of lochs on Rannoch Moor. :?
I regard to the problems like Rannoch, it's not so much it's free (I acknowledge the various aspects that free brings with it) it's just we have too many people in the country who just don't care about anyone or anything else but themselves. You'll know what it's like from visiting NZ, take away the ned culture and lo and behold it's a lovely place! We seem to have more total idiots than a lot of countries!
Quote from: scotty9 on June 15, 2011, 10:03:18 AM
We seem to have more total idiots than a lot of countries!
Sadly that does appear to be the case. I have had to kick enough of them off this forum; extrapolation of these numbers does suggest we have more than our fair share.
Alan,
Amateur sport in this country exists largely through former participants in the sport giving up lots of time and money. The cost of coaching qualifications may in some cases be partly funded by the sports governing body or elsewhere but often it is the coach who is out of pocket with no hope or expectation that it will be refunded. Costs come not only for qualifications but often for travel and hotel expenses. Simply it is done for the love of the sport. This is true not only in the UK but across Europe. I can think of exceptions - the most notable being golf. There the club pro will charge for lessons but also repair clubs and act as a shop assistant.
Alan,
I'm not sure what you mean to embrace by " membership fees ". However, as Malcolm pointed out, there are loads of folk out there offering their coaching/ instructing services free in just about every sporting activity I can think of. Look in on any of the Glasgow parks of a summer evening or on weekends and you will see many young people being coached and encouraged in football, as the most obvious example. I know that the same thing happens within golf clubs, cricket clubs, bowling clubs, athletics clubs etc etc ... I could go on and on, as the wishful-thinking actress longed for the bishop to say ! And almost all of this help and guidance is offered free [ in terms of specific coaching fees ] by folk who love their sport and just want to help others, often, but not exclusively, younger people. In most of those areas I'm pretty sure that fee-paid tuition is also available - it certainly is in golf.
I see the issue of casting instruction , at least so far as our activities at GCC are concerned, as being no different. When Alberto made his introductory remarks in the early nights of the GCC he made very clear that what was on offer was a first-class practice facility, at a very low weekly cost of £1, and some level of help for those who wanted that. He also made very clear that anyone wishing more intensive or one-to-one coaching/ instruction should make his/her private arrangements with any of the qualified instructors who might be in attendance. You know that some folk did indeed choose to do that. So I can't really understand where all this current navel-gazing is meant to be leading us.
Or is just that your students have locked you out of the classroom .. again ? :)
T
Quite!,
I've never once had payment for the sports coaching that I've done. I know coaches from cricket, athletics, rugby and rowing and haven't heard of anyone being paid. I know that most are out of pocket but don't mind as the same was done for us when we were young. It's pay back time!
Things change at higher levels I know and of course there are professional coaches many of whom have spent months (or years) on full time physical education courses at college or University.
I've never been at that higher level either as a coach or participant.
Sorry I didn't make it through tonight I have been on the River all day and The last thing I wanted to see was a cast. :(
Quote from: Teither on June 16, 2011, 03:47:39 PM
Alan,
I'm not sure what you mean to embrace by " membership fees ". However, as Malcolm pointed out, there are loads of folk out there offering their coaching/ instructing services free in just about every sporting activity I can think of. Look in on any of the Glasgow parks of a summer evening or on weekends and you will see many young people being coached and encouraged in football, as the most obvious example. I know that the same thing happens within golf clubs, cricket clubs, bowling clubs, athletics clubs etc etc ... I could go on and on, as the wishful-thinking actress longed for the bishop to say ! And almost all of this help and guidance is offered free [ in terms of specific coaching fees ] by folk who love their sport and just want to help others, often, but not exclusively, younger people. In most of those areas I'm pretty sure that fee-paid tuition is also available - it certainly is in golf.
I see the issue of casting instruction , at least so far as our activities at GCC are concerned, as being no different. When Alberto made his introductory remarks in the early nights of the GCC he made very clear that what was on offer was a first-class practice facility, at a very low weekly cost of £1, and some level of help for those who wanted that. He also made very clear that anyone wishing more intensive or one-to-one coaching/ instruction should make his/her private arrangements with any of the qualified instructors who might be in attendance. You know that some folk did indeed choose to do that. So I can't really understand where all this current navel-gazing is meant to be leading us.
Or is just that your students have locked you out of the classroom .. again ? :)
T
I can speak from the experiences I have had in The Fife Casting Club regarding fees etc. I was getting bogged down with absolute beginners and it was really hard work and it had to cease operating at that level.
I do not know about Alberto but my vision of a Casting club was everybody could learn something equally,me included.
I now have 6 people and hopefully one other is going to Join. We can then bounce (argue)things of each other, then demo the cast(argue again). That way we are not repeating the same casts over and over again.
One of my first questions are " how far do you want to take this casting" Answer, then proceed from there.
To charge Fees we need to look outwith Casting Clubs but don't stop them as the good they do is imo payment enough.
Brian
The Fife cc Tried the unstructured approach initially but the problem with that is you do not know if people are learning anything or just casting for the sake of it. My reason for the limited numbers were that we had sometimes 20 people with no real direction therefore no real benefit. Some people were practicing faults and with no real time to spend one on one something had to change. I will of course reevaluate it and if needs must, change it back. There is of course the serious issue of trying to earn a living so if people want a one on one they may consider paying for a lesson and using the cc as backup :D
Brian
Quote from: Alan on June 17, 2011, 01:06:50 AM
the real success of gcc is that its open to people outwith the regular members, the members themselves welcome it, the core of regulars is what makes it work rather than 'an instructor'
and there are no ulterior financial / ego motives. Nothing remotely like it up in this neck of the woods I'm afraid.
Quote from: admin on June 17, 2011, 08:59:38 AM
and there are no ulterior financial / ego motives. Nothing remotely like it up in this neck of the woods I'm afraid.
Fred start one up :D You only need a few like minded people.
Brian
Quote from: Brian Mcg on June 17, 2011, 10:51:58 AM
You only need a few like minded people.
Sadly Brian, there are none up here or at lest none that I have met and would choose to spend any time with. :lol:
Last night while using the powerful sea trout rod it struck me that there is a big technical difference in using powerful rods of the type many of us used in the 1980s and the light delicate equipment mostly used for trout now. I handed my rod over to Craig so that he could show me a slightly different aerial mend to the ones I use and Craig, who is technically adept, couldn't do it with my rod although he did it very easily with a lighter rod. I've noticed this before with both Alan and Alberto. I don't think it is just to do with weight and power. I think there is a different skillset needed. Do the casting organizations recognize this?
It seems to me that the Scottish based organizations need to cater for the needs of anglers in Scotland and most of our fishing up here isn't done with a single fly and a 5 weight rod. Yet that seems to be the norm for instruction purposes.
I would hazard that at least 50% of fishing in Scotland is done with a multi-fly cast on a 10ft 7/8 weight rod fishing for loch trout or for seatrout and single handed salmon. Do you know that I have never once seen any casting instructor either practicing or teaching with this type of equipment? I think it should be incorporated into the syllabus.
Quote from: Malcolm on June 17, 2011, 12:20:30 PM
I would hazard that at least 50% of fishing in Scotland is done with a multi-fly cast on a 10ft 7/8 weight rod fishing for loch trout or for seatrout and single handed salmon. Do you know that I have never once seen any casting instructor either practicing or teaching with this type of equipment? I think it should be incorporated into the syllabus.
Health and safety...... risk assessments..... potential litigation.... that's probably why not.
You may well be right there, Scott, in respect of the multi-cast thing. The teaching is done with wool, obviously for safety reasons. However, the first couple of lessons I had were on put-and-take stillwaters, with different instructors, both well-known and both excellent. The rod I used was my LPXe 9.5 ft 7 wt. and each instructor commended the rod as an excellent choice for my then-declared fishing interest [ and each did ask me ] - those same kinds of fisheries. I have subsequently put other people in touch with each of those gentlemen for their first lessons. In each case the set-up was the same as mine.
So it does happen, Malcolm. In fact, of all the people I know who have started in the flyfishing racket, none has been taught using the lighter gear. Mind you , given your comments to me last night about the difference in my single-handed casting when using your wrist-breaker Trilogy as opposed to using my wee fairy Streamflex rod, I do think the point you make may well be very valid ! :)
T
I started with a 7wt as well.
Another thing worth bearing in mind is almost everyone seems to have some sort of rod already purchased before they ever get their first lesson. So I would presume they are going to learn with whatever that is?
I guess it depends what the pupil is looking for from the instructor... if they are a total beginner that expects to go fishing the next day with the very real possibility there will be a wee bit of wind then give him a 10 weight, teach him how to wave it and put a great big lure on the end. :lol:
On a more serious note - on your point Malcolm.
I don't agree that it should be in the syllabus. That is where specialism comes in. Why try and make casting instructors a jack of all trades? Why not have a basic syllabus and then they develop specialisms based on their own fishing preferences. That is how you keep fun in it! What could be more fun than teaching your specialism that is developed from pursuing your interest? If I want to learn the casts I need for when I go tarpon fishing (total made up example), I'm not going to go to an instructor that only fishes for small burn trout with light rods even if at one point in his career he was assessed on casting a heavy rod. I'm going to hunt out a tarpon fisher!
I can definitely say from fishing the salt water in australia with a TCX 10, it's not just the casting, it's the fishing and it was amazing to learn from someone so knowledgable in that fishing sitution. I have to admit though, there is bugger all difference in my technique casting a saltwater lead eyed lure on the TCX 10 than when I fish a single dry on a #5 at long fishing range (not that I do that often!). I found I didn't need the technically 'correct' casts - like some sort of belgian/oval but could hit a bouncing bomb style cast from a 170 stroke and carry that beastly fly with no problems. Same as I'd do with a #5. The only difference was the extra strength needed to hang onto that rod, it's a beast!
I firmly believe that someone at the "standard of instructor" should be able to adapt to any kind of rod and the casts needed to cast and fish that rod pretty dam quickly. If they can't, I would question ability. Adaptability is a pretty key thing, all casts have the same basic mechanics.
A cast is a cast and doesn't differ in it's mechanics no matter what a rod's line rating. An instructor should be able to cast with any weight of rod equally well, if not he/she isn't doing enough practice.
Quote from: Malcolm on June 17, 2011, 12:20:30 PM
Last night while using the powerful sea trout rod it struck me that there is a big technical difference in using powerful rods of the type many of us used in the 1980s and the light delicate equipment mostly used for trout now. I handed my rod over to Craig so that he could show me a slightly different aerial mend to the ones I use and Craig, who is technically adept, couldn't do it with my rod although he did it very easily with a lighter rod. I've noticed this before with both Alan and Alberto. I don't think it is just to do with weight and power. I think there is a different skillset needed. Do the casting organizations recognize this?
It seems to me that the Scottish based organizations need to cater for the needs of anglers in Scotland and most of our fishing up here isn't done with a single fly and a 5 weight rod. Yet that seems to be the norm for instruction purposes.
I would hazard that at least 50% of fishing in Scotland is done with a multi-fly cast on a 10ft 7/8 weight rod fishing for loch trout or for seatrout and single handed salmon. Do you know that I have never once seen any casting instructor either practicing or teaching with this type of equipment? I think it should be incorporated into the syllabus.
Hi Malcolm It would totally depend on who I was teaching I generally use a 9ft 5#, 9ft 6# or a 9ft 6in 7#.
We teach the different technique's to overcome any casting situation ie opening the loops for team of three flies. It would be up to the individual to then practice said cast.
If I am mucking about at Casting with yourself I may well just use the 5#. :D
Brian
Bugger. I had hoped to provoke a take from Alan, didn't aim too well did I? I probably presented the fly too well. (edit: sorry missed the last post from Alan)
Craig,
It's hard to know how far we cast on the water. We use the buoy which I think is somewhere around the 17m mark as target practice for speys and rolls off the left and right shoulders. So that sort of distance is quite straightforward. Alan has a good eye for distance on the water and he would be the one to ask.
If I'm there next week I'll bring a rod for you to try that makes the Loomis feel like a 4 weight.
Rabbitangler,
As you know once a heavy rod overcomes it's inertia its momentum makes it harder to stop or make subtle movements. This was the problem. Craig was teaching me a cast I hadn't come across before which depended on a quick and subtle double movement halfway though the stroke. In the end we decided that it probably wasn't the best cast to attempt with a powerful stick.
Makes sense to me Malclom. Anyone who doubts it should try waving a clothes pole quickly. :lol:
Quote from: admin on June 17, 2011, 09:56:23 PM
Makes sense to me Malclom. Anyone who doubts it should try waving a clothes pole quickly. :lol:
Whats that Fred a 5# helios tip flex :worried :D
Brian
Quote from: admin on June 17, 2011, 09:56:23 PM
Makes sense to me Malclom. Anyone who doubts it should try waving a clothes pole quickly. :lol:
I have evidence in Alex, Alberto and Alan that I whipped some guides to a woodern broomstick and cast loops about 2'' off it. It was hard but possible :lol: See, that backs up my argument that you should be able to adapt :D
Alan
That formula only works if you have a two tone fly line.
There is an exercise that you can do that helps to judge distance.
You will need a tape measure and some targets.
1. stretch out tape
2.Place targets at 35 / 40 /50 feet
3.Cast to targets.
This exercise helps with judging distance / accuracy and tracking.
Gary :D
Quote from: Alan on June 17, 2011, 08:29:06 PM
given that in assessments only one rod can be used
I recently heard someone suggest that at assessment, candidates should be provided three rod/line setups to cast with. That would make for a tougher test for sure.
(I'm not aware anyone in the organisations is seriously considering it)
Andrew
Quote from: ennio on June 19, 2011, 06:34:32 PM
I recently heard someone suggest that at assessment, candidates should be provided three rod/line setups to cast with. That would make for a tougher test for sure.
(I'm not aware anyone in the organisations is seriously considering it)
Andrew
I have not heard that Andrew but it shouldn't make any real difference. The current requirement in GAIA is a Maximum 9ft rod aftm 7#.
Lets be Honest if Candidates put themselves forward for assessment they really should be able to cast with any rod/line set up imo.
My usual set up is 9ft 4# but tomorrow morning at 7:00 I will be fishing a 9ft 8# then at 11:00 a 4#. so here's hoping :o
Brian
Quote from: buster1980 on June 19, 2011, 07:48:57 PM
Andrew
Looking at the basic tests they look hard enough to me, its weird why make the test harder?
Because guys like you make it look easy :D
Brian
Craig, I do not jest I mean what I say. I have watched your Casting a few times now and imo you are at a level, maybe to progress you must then develop all the casts within whatever assessment you are looking at. Being a member of gcc means you already have a head start regarding coaching. You then develop YOUR own style of Teaching. Having met you a few times I know by your attitude you will make an excellent Instructor If that is what you want to do.(Don't want to make it sound like a recruitment spiel )
Brian
Quote from: Alan on June 19, 2011, 09:57:16 PM
Craig, i have to agree with Brian, you question the cause and effect objectively and perform appropriately, fine tune to the casts required for assessment but be prepared to talk through the cast as though teaching it, ie. just say what your doing and do what your saying,
one of the benefits of the cc is you can get some teaching in before being questioned on how you might teach something, you can teach beginners or nurse advanced, its all there to play with, assessors like this because it shows you have taught then thought, revised, changed, refined, this is the aim of the assessment..im assuming they run the same..rather than just performing the cast.
I feel a major breakthrough has occurred with Alan agreeing with me but he is right with what he states.
You should be able to explain, demonstrate and teach every task. Well you do exactly that every week at the gcc.
Alan I to am not the kind of guy anyone would associate with being an organisation type but it supplies me with Insurance etc and at the end of the day it is just like a Casting Club,just bigger.
Brian
If I can get the fly to a trout ten feet or a hundred feet away from any casting location that nature throws at me, with the fly presented how I want it, then I'm happy. Nothing else matters. That's the way I think of it.
Quote from: buster1980 on June 20, 2011, 12:29:53 AM
Teaching doesnt bother me i have been doing that for years at work and i teach how to instruct, only difference i cant give people press ups for not getting it right :)
The more im getting into casting the more im starting to realise how much is involved in it, and if you want to be at a high level the amount of hours needed to be put in is a lot more than 3 hours down the casting club on a Thursday. My problem is i see faults everywhere and there frustrating, and its not massive one's but its the difference between a couple of cm or so on a forward cast to get it perfect. Another thing that im in the process of trying to work out is the style of casting that i like.
Well...you could, maybe fear of pressups would be a revolutionary breakthrough in casting development, maybe the learning would occur faster? :lol:
I'm very like you. I see a tiny fault and want to fix it, I get pissed off with a small glitch. It's pretty dam easy getting the fly to the fish 90% of the time with a nice drift, yes there are those fish in amazing tricky places... but that's when I climb rocks, climb trees and hang off them to get the cast I want! :8) I want to be able to hit every fish I find but I can't say it's the sole goal I have from practising casting. In saying that, fishing between mangroves in australia was amazingly difficult and so much fun. Definitely an awesome skill to have if you are adapted to that environment. I see casting in part as a separate discipline almost (obviously only in part!) and I want to improve the art form of casting, I want mine to be perfect. At the same time I want to compete in distance competitions which is removed from fishing. They are two very interrelated elements casting and fishing but I see it as something that you can keep as closely related or remove them from each other to any degree you wish. That's a lot of waffle but I hope it gets my point across.
Alan I can only speak from a GAIA point of view whether that is right or wrong that is for others to decide. On the current Syllabus it states You must Demonstrate,explain and Teach all of the tasks. On the day of the Assessment the Assessor is given the number of 4 Tasks(it could be any four) and the candidate has to act accordingly. As for the teaching side well you are a Teacher Craig teaches, it is guys like myself who's only interaction with teachers was to hold our hand out for the Belt that need to develop teaching skills. I think cppd days go a long way in helping that side of things,that's why I go to every one .
I am glad that we can at least agree with each other on some things :) The only way forward is dialogue :D(sound's like a politician)
I will stop going on about mundane things on the thread as after all it is the GCC thread.
Brian
Be-jeesus Alan, I can see me and you being mates :shock: :D
Brian
I have never earned any qualifications in teaching- and it is way too late now.
But I have spent a lot of time- and been paid for it, one way or another- showing the unknowing what to do, how and why.
The teachers amongst us can legitmately claim that I was not "teaching" as I have not been trained/educated in this skill, I concur.
I encountered my greatest difficulties when I failed to elicit my own enthusiasm for the subject in my pupil(s).
In my defence, some of my pupils were unwillingly such.
However, a volunteer is worth ten pressed men.
French, Latin and Algebra saw me as an unwilling (to the point of disobedience) pupil.
Chemistry, Biology, Physics and (now) fishing leave me unable to drink too deep of the well of knowledge.
My casting is crap, but serves my purpose- from the boat, on the loch, wet flies- and I can show, tell and explain to beginners how to match my efforts, regularly recognising that they can exceed them.
So be it.
What sets us ahead of the apes is our ability to vocalise a greater range of sounds, formed into language, which is used to convey both demonstrable actions but also concepts and abstract ideas on a wide range of subjects.
Latin and Algebra can be book-learnt- led by a teacher, gymnastics and casting require a coach with the time and experience to observe and improve/develop performance.
I don't believe we need coaches for casting but a good one will speed the learning process. Coaches are helpful, no doubt about it however there are a load of really excellent casters who have never had coaching and possibly won't receive any benefit from it for the casts they can already do.
On the matter of new skills I have been very pleased with help I have been given over the past 18 months particularly with new "river craft" casts and a load of double handed stuff - not all from instructors by any means.
I can see that this going to be a long, long summer ! :roll:
T
Quietest night ever last night. I'm 100% convinced that fly fishing really isn't for small children even with the lightest of rods. Much better to learn with a fixed spool reel. I'd be shot if I suggested that in some quarters.
Quote from: Malcolm on July 01, 2011, 10:41:21 AM
Much better to learn with a fixed spool reel.
Agreed. Trouble is many of the kind of places kids could go when we were nippers are now effectively out of bounds. "Fisheries" full of scabby rainbows that are too expensive for children or do not allow kids unless accompanied by an adult.
Does anyone have either 10 or 11 weight floating or intermediate single handed lines that I could possibly try out at the club?
I have WF10F, WF12I, DT10F - if I'm there I'll bring them along.
That would be great Malcolm, not sure if I'll be there on thurs, could be fishing!
The shoot out was good last night, I enjoyed it.
Yes the rings would be easier to see.
Gary :8)
Next time, do it in daylight! :lol: That's no excuse for my misses but it definitely affected everyone I am sure. Very fun though, look forward to more challenges.
And for distance, next time we need a long belly line... it goes further :8)
Official measurer here!
Results were
Acuracy
Craig (Buster1980)
Billy
Alan
Scott(Scotty9)
Distance
Craig
Billy
Scott
Alan
The distance one would have been won by Scott if it was the end of the line rather than the fly but with a trick cast he managed to land his fly 8 ft behind the leading edge of the line!
Did the second one not turn over either? Dammit! Should have grabbed the line on the shoot :lol: My delivery was certainly noticeably not good, time to hit the practice range!
I will be at the casting club next Thursday,then I am of to Barra for three weeks.
Gary
Anyone braving the rain tomorrow night? I fancy more gasman challenges!
Wild fishing values meet fly casting! :lol:
You guys amaze me, regularly out in all weathers, summer and winter! I've heard in some places wimps only meet once in a blue moon and even that has to be indoors. :gay4
I guess that's when stockie bashing values meet fly casting! :lol:
Keep up the good work chaps! :D
I might be there depending on water height here. I could well be fished out!
I've just got a second hand slow actioned 5 weight (Gatti), so I might have a wee go at the distance casting with it. Otherwise I'll just use the 7 weight that you all love!
Sounds good craig, count me in. And f***! I just remembered about the bfcc, i've organised a fishing buddy from germany to come over, will have to wangle this around so I can get to bfcc, definitely want to.
Will bring some of those flies along too :8)
I guess we did :D
Weather wasn't that bad at all strangely. Tonight was fun, good shootout with all the different rods, very interesting.
Anyone got an old med or barrio #5? I might have an old barrio... I have a cunning plan for practice for Alan, actually think it could help us all. Will reveal this in a bit. Video will really help too, especially for looking at haul timing.
Anyone fancy running through the danish casting games with me next week? Alan, Craig and Malcolm I'm sure you'll have a go. http://www.fedflyfishers.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MXgssXiVSpU%3d&tabid=4469&mid=3361 (http://www.fedflyfishers.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MXgssXiVSpU%3d&tabid=4469&mid=3361) It's explained in here.
Sorry about the line in your face Craig. The other Malcolm copped one too.
The platyful wee fox
[attachimg=1]
Quote from: scotty9 on August 12, 2011, 02:46:02 AM
Anyone fancy running through the danish casting games with me next week?
Does that involve prancing around naked in the snow and hitting yourself with whippy tip sections?
Can't see that being practical until at least December. Strange lot these Scandinavians.
Quote from: Alan on August 12, 2011, 10:23:30 PM
that fox is the most reliable member of the casting club :lol:
anyone for sunday?
Possibily, not first thing in the morning though, can't be bothered with that nonsense :lol:
Quote from: Alan on August 13, 2011, 01:57:12 AM
if you see this, then we know why you cant get up in the morning :lol:
thing is we have to work to your times cos you got the line!
Think you might have cracked it!
Midday? Will bring the other distance line too.
Don't want to be on the banks down there at the moment. Passed the kelvin up around torrance today, very high. Wouldn't like to be fannying about down in the park for fear of falling in the lovely brown water :lol:
I've been to those Golden Gate casting pools years ago! Saw fishing ponds marked on a map and spent ages trying to find them, i was utterly disgusted that they'd gone to that much trouble to construct them purely to practice casting-not a fish in sight. Mind you at that point in my life I was more interested in how to drain them to skateboard in them! :-)
There was a disappointed young Ollie at the pond today, when no-one, other than a couple of decrepit old speycasters, had turned up.
DST
Sunday isn't official though?
As far as I was aware it was only me and Alan going down, which we did. We were there for 3 hours this afternoon.
Quote from: Alan on August 14, 2011, 07:15:03 PM
didnt see anyone! discovered a very good mend exercise for thursday for those with sore arms from distance casting, which appears to work better on grass than water.
It was good... we need to plan the line layout a bit better though so we make it a bit more possible :lol: Some of that was bloody hard, interesting with the wind too :shock: :lol:
Out of interest, what are you guys hitting when doing your distance stuff? I'm coming along to the BFCC thing in september, so need to see if I'll be able to compete with the fine casters of GCC.
Quote from: davefromtheattic on August 17, 2011, 04:14:34 PM
Out of interest, what are you guys hitting when doing your distance stuff? I'm coming along to the BFCC thing in september, so need to see if I'll be able to compete with the fine casters of GCC.
I'm seriously hit and miss at the moment. (Or am I just bluffing to my competition? :lol:)
Longest measured cast was 112' at the weekend. I'm 100% sure I had one cast on thursday a good bit further but it wasn't on a tape so it's irrelevant. To be honest though, it's not about longest casts, it's about averages. The brutal truth is that if we're not averaging in the 120s then we don't have a hope in the comepetion placing. I'm just in it for the fun and experience at the moment though - maybe challenge for places in a few years :lol:
That's for the #5 weight.
PS - have you emailed Mike Marshall to say you're going?
Todays 107' isn't too bad then :D
My tracking is really off, I don't know whether to spend the time getting it sorted or just leave it and enjoy the day. Sounds like I should leave it!
Definitely not bad at all :D
What gear you using out of interest? I'm playing with different rods and lines at the moment trying to make my mind up. My choice is Hydros 9' #6, TCX 9' #6, Lines - Barrio GT thing, SA MED both #5s. Ironically I threw 108' at the weekend with a Neilson rod and a Snowbee XS, which if you'd asked me before I'd have said never in a million years!
Tracking - I'll pm you advice, can't give it out to everyone :lol: It's helped wonders for me, still a long way to go. I'm in a similar situation, I could totally stop what I'm doing and start from the ground up which is probably better in the long run or just keep plugging away :lol: My biggest issue at the moment is haul timing. I keep hauling too soon in the rotation, when it's right it's such a massive difference in the loop but for now it's wrong more often than right.
I was getting 110-120ft with a TCR 5 weight and a GT 140 line - but I broke the rod! I had the odd cast that went beyond 120ft but I never figured out what caused these freaky casts. I wish I could.
I've not done much since the fishing season started but I was playing about with a 10ft 7 weight with a wildfisher line at the casting club a couple of weeks ago and the casts were going about 105-115ft.
I'm really inconsistent when it comes to distance casting.
Best witnessed single hand cast - coached by oor ain Alan - was 127ft. That was with a rather more powerful outfit that wouldn't have passed competition rules!
One thing I do know is that to cast a long line i.e 120ft+ with a 5 weight you need to carry a hell of a lot of line which means a very long headed line otherwise you will have a very long overhang. It also means that you need a very powerful 5 weight (i.e with an ERN of 7+).
I remember reading on sexyloops that an XP is good to about 120' Craig! I won't swap you but I'll give you a play of my #6 tcx tomorrow night if you want?
Dave - don't know if it helps as a judge for other line weights since we'll be casting #5, #7, #9 and the shooting heads at BFCC... I cast a #10 tcx with #9 barrio line in the Aussie shootout 129'. It wasn't a massive increase over my five weight distance, although on the day it was 25' further than my #5 cast.
I'm going to start practising with the 7 weight as well I think.
I'm just going to go and enjoy the day, have a few casts with you guys. I'll spend from now till next season getting in shape and give it a crack next year. Interested in getting a longer head line. what about DT? I read somewhere to practise with one.
Alan - I think you'll like this as a very well reasoned page - http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/cgi-bin/theboard_07/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=16;t=12029;st=10 (http://www.sexyloops.co.uk/cgi-bin/theboard_07/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=16;t=12029;st=10)
It address what the relevance of distance casting and casting practise is, it address the "ah, but I can catch fish" issue very well :lol:
Anyone of the regulars happen to have a long headed 7 weight that I can try on my seatrout rod?
Alan, I'll bring an 8 weight.
I don't at the moment Malcolm but may well do by next week.
I'll be there tonight, might be a bit late as usual :lol:
Quote from: buster1980 on August 29, 2011, 10:47:46 PM
Don't know if anyone else is interested in this but i was thinking it would be good to get a someone in to do a demo on double or single handed casting, i know there has been a few in the past but i don't think there has been any this year. I think it would be good to do this either once a month or every other month, what do you think?
Craig
I agree.... but we don't need anyone yet. You're doing the demo on thursday, better get planning! :)
I could ask Paul really nicely :lol: but to be honest he's too expensive for our wee club. Paul is pretty serious cash for demos/instruction days.
He'll be in Hungary soon then in a couple months will be back in NZ. I know this as I was meant to be there but alas can't make it :x Such is life! :lol:
I've been thinking for some time now that we are far into the realms of diminishing returns as far as fishing casts are concerned and if GCC is to be a casting club with a fishing focus then we need to think a bit out of the box.
Most of us can overhead cast 90 ft+, Jump roll cast 70ft+, Throw curves and snakes etc etc. It's now in the region of casting as a sport in it's own right. For some it's like throwing the javelin and for others casting may be seen as a form of ribbon gymnastics. So apart from some beginner coaching it seems to me that for many if not most of the single handed casters it has left the realm of fishing.
That's fine for the people who see casting as a worthwhile endeavour for it's own sake. Don't get me wrong I like sports and I recognise that is what the club is becoming and don't mind that at all - I simply recognise that.
Some of the casting I see - including things I've tried myself are useless on the water. The bouncing bomb cast is about as useless a fishing cast as it is possible to get. It also seems to me that casting in wide open spaces has the potential to develop really bad habits: even in short casts the backcast is dropping so low that it would be a real liability. With a team of hooks on the end instead of a piece of wool the hungry heather would be having a field day!
In fishing terms we are just about as far as we are going to get with the facilities:
What we can't try are all the things that happen on rivers and lochs for example:
- Long leader multiple fly setups
Heavy flies cast under bushes
Casting with obstructions all round
In other words the sort of casts that really make a difference.
As far as instructors go I've now seen some good technical casters but I don't think I would find any practical benefit in having someone like Paul Arden. However if we are taliikng about sport casting then I am sure he would be great.
Quote from: buster1980 on August 31, 2011, 10:38:46 PM
Yeah bang on Alan it all depends on how good you want to become, I'm not happy with my casting at all, the way I see it is no matter how good you are you can always learn something new just by watching someone else. Having someone like Andrew Toft or Paul Arden at the casting club would benefit everyone, that I would put my house on, as long as you want to learn. I think the distance thing has only been happening because the bfcc are coming up soon, and the guys going want to get a bit of practice for it. But hey its great fun,
Malcolm you would need to be crazy to try a bouncing bomb on a river, and if someone tries it they deserve to loose more than a few flies. :D
I agree. For me it's about line control in every aspect. I'm not happy being able to cast well in one fishing situation, I want to have a casting level that you can put me anywhere in the world after any fish species and I don't have an issue with casting.
Does an estuary count Craig? One of the few times I've got that bloody cast to work was on an estuary with a 10 weight tcx bombing a heavy shrimp thing miles out! Caught one of these guys:
(http://www.purefishing.com.au/armchair/imgs/boothflathead_03.jpg)
Quote from: buster1980 on August 31, 2011, 11:59:27 PM
cool, well if it works it works. You can show me it tmrw, I haven't actually seen it done in the flesh.
I haven't been able to get it to work since! It's driving me mad, I can't delay the rotation enough and get my haul late enough to get the bounce effect.
Doubt I'll be there tonight. I have a German friend arriving tonight and need to be in for him coming over from Edinburgh. Depends what time he arrives but it is unlikely.
Old cane seems to do that sometimes. I broke an old cane that Ptinid had - the tip section snapped as easily as a matchstick - just like that one yesterday. I have a couple of split cane rods however however that are very strong - something to do with moisture getting into the cane itself?
Distance casting is very relevant. Sea trout or salmon fishing on a bigger river even with a single handed rod can require very long casts. The same is true for some lochs, Have you noticed how often the fish rise on the edge of the ripple in the evenings - which can often be 80 or more feet away (I've often wondered why this zone on very light ripple is so attractive to rising fish).
Get yirsel a feckin boat, decent ones for about the price of a couple of your nanomatrix-carbontungsten, 100M-casting branded sh1te.
Drift out along the ripple, maximum cast 40ft, big fishies.
The edge of the ripple provides an aiming point, will disguise the fall of the fly, leaves the line in clear view and will immediately add natural action to the fly.
Quote from: Malcolm on September 04, 2011, 07:24:06 PM
Sea trout or salmon fishing on a bigger river even with a single handed rod can require very long casts.
That's what the double hander's for , Malcolm. :worried
Lift it , swing it , and whang it oot. :D
Fine if you can cast a double hander left hand up Brian. My skills with a double hander are a long way short of yours.
There was a nice turn out tonight at the G.C.C but it got dark just after 8pm. So as from Sunday the
18th Sept we will be meeting at 10am.
All welcome.
Alan its your turn for the cakes. :makefun
All the best,
Gary
Good calls all round :D
I was speaking to Alberto today and he is ok with it.
Alan enjoy your trip to Torridon, but you still have to get the cakes. :lol:
We're on sundays!!! Thought Alberto told you last Sunday Craig?!
Do any members of the casting club have either 10/11# single handed fly lines that I could try?
Gary
Yes I have WF and DT Floaters and intermediates. If I am there on Sunday I will bring them.
Thank you Macolm, hope to see you Sunday.
Gary
First post since September 16th - has the club died or has it just all been said before? :lol:
Fred I am sorry too say that the casting club has had a poor attendance for the last couple of weeks,
for some reason or other.
Gary
That's a real shame Gary. It's pretty unique and has been very successful.
I haven't been since before BFCC, just been too busy. Have been away two weekends and then the rugby world cup matches have taken first priority!
Quote from: Alan on October 20, 2011, 01:23:07 AM
this is the transition period, end of season there is less urgency to cast well if at all, and you always get a strange apathy for casting learning/practice after distance activities, other goals change and then get forgotton, its the devils work,
i printed off some syllibii, sillybi, cyll..fk it, if anyone wants to run through an instructor test, its a good way to esablish what your good at and what your not against a benchmark.
It's not the distance thing - it's the world cup thing! Happens only once every 4 years and since it's in NZ the times are very early morning kick offs. Will be along after this week probably.
Quote from: scotty9 on October 20, 2011, 01:19:27 PM
it's the world cup thing! Happens only once every 4 years
Makes perfect sense to me. This is no different from me not wasting my precious time at game fairs and casting events during the fishing season.
Alan,
Well, we did have yet another newcomer last Sunday, Alan. That was Danny with the softest double handed rod I've ever tried - and a DT line to boot. I tell you , it caught me out .. and a couple of others too, I think.
I think your reference to the onset of nastier weather is a correct observation, along with the end, or approaching end, of the season. Remember that the salmon fishers are still active and probably on Saturdays at this back end, so it will pick up again before too long, I'm sure.
I should maybe also [ as gently as I can ] make the observation that preoccupation with distance casting is the preserve of only a relatively small number of members. It is certainly not the case, as someone suggested a wee while back, that "the casting club" has developed into a distance-focussed entity.
Your own comments about the social cum general learning and practising aspects are much nearer the mark, I think. See you Sunday [ weather permitting ! ] :)
T
ps " syllabi " or "syllabuses " is the word you're looking for. :lol:
T
An additional few yesterday, plus a late arriving Zoomer [ who missed the coffee ] ! We go from strength to strength ! :lol:
T
Jim, have you still got the 18ft AFTM 12 Paraflex? I'm quite keen to see if I can manage to get some long spey casts.
Quote from: Malcolm on October 24, 2011, 02:04:22 PM
Jim, have you still got the 18ft AFTM 12 Paraflex? I'm quite keen to see if I can manage to get some long spey casts.
Bejesus Malcolm 18ft :shock:? You will have to test cast it in the North sea not the Park Pond :?
Brian
Doubt I'll be along this Sunday, big party on saturday night :D
Quote from: Malcolm on October 24, 2011, 02:04:22 PM
Jim, have you still got the 18ft AFTM 12 Paraflex? I'm quite keen to see if I can manage to get some long spey casts.
Malcolm,
I have but I have no long head line to suit. You'd want at least 85ft and, in my view, 95ft would be better for that rod.
T
I'm thinking that a spey line is just a long DT with a running line. So a cheap DT12 and some form of running line may work just fine. What do you think?
John Norris do a 105ft DT12 for £8 and that would be a good head length - so where do I get a cheapish running line - or do I just use heavy mono? 18ft rod +105ft head+ 9ft leader means 140ft or so without shooting any line!
Quote from: Malcolm on October 25, 2011, 11:35:58 PM
I'm thinking that a spey line is just a long DT with a running line. So a cheap DT12 and some form of running line may work just fine. What do you think?
John Norris do a 105ft DT12 for £8 and that would be a good head length - so where do I get a cheapish running line - or do I just use heavy mono? 18ft rod +105ft head+ 9ft leader means 140ft or so without shooting any line!
Malcolm,
It is, of course, up to you but you should perhaps be aware that the rod's owner might well claim it back at any time. Indeed, he has already arranged once to pick it up. He did not turn up as arranged but that might change at any time.
T
Haven't heard much recently, much still doing? I know Alex and Stephen have been along a few times but haven't heard much else.
I'm hoping to get back after New Year, just been too busy recently to get down.
I usually pop in on my way home from Glasgow on a Sunday morning but the weather has been foul for the past month so Sunday was the first time there for a while. The pond was frozen over and there was an inch or two of snow.
I can't imagine anyone will be there until the 8th Jan now as Christmas and new year fall on Sunday.
Like Malcolm, I doubt if I'll be there until 8th Jan.
Alex
Looks not too bad tomorrow at least compared to what we have had. Intending to be there about 1030 tomorrow. Anyone else?
Quote from: Malcolm on January 07, 2012, 07:54:42 PM
Looks not too bad tomorrow at least compared to what we have had. Intending to be there about 1030 tomorrow. Anyone else?
I aim to be there around 9.15. Andy (trout'nabout) is going too.
Alex
I shall meet you guys in the morning, looking forward to it :)
Andy
Well that was very cold and a bit wet at times. Thanks for the lessons today Alex, Malcolm and Alan although ive got a long way to go, you guys make it look so easy :roll: Ive met new friends rather than names on a forum :D Alex, Malcolm and i had a McDonalds which finished the day off nicely :D
Andy
Good to meet you Andy. You can already get a line out that will be more than adequate to catch these highland loch brownies. I enjoyed our natter about all things trout in Macdonalds too!
Quote from: Malcolm on January 08, 2012, 06:33:38 PM
Macdonalds
What can beat a proper Sunday Lunch in Weegieland eh?
QuoteI enjoyed our natter about all things trout in Macdonalds too!
Yes it was good Malcolm :) I will post the Lomond pictures i was telling you about.
QuoteWhat can beat a proper Sunday Lunch in Weegieland eh?
We were only going for a coffee Ken :? it was when we went in, we could not resist the food :lol:
Andy
QuoteWhat can beat a proper Sunday Lunch in Weegieland eh?
It was of course a proper west-end McDonalds :)
It was nice to meet Andy and we had a couple of new guys too. I think everyone was itching to get out after the howling gales of the last few weeks.
Alex
Quote from: Alan on January 08, 2012, 08:53:25 PM
it was nice to arrive and see a structured looking class in progress, newbee's and everything, and good to meet you Andy,
I'm not sure about beginners starting on grass, off to devise something.
You going to dig a hole for a pond Alan ? :lol:
The local authority wont let you cast anywhere the backcast is within forty feet of a path. They stopped fly fishing at Drumpellier because of that and shut part of the bank at Hillend because of the overhead cables on the new railway. The public haven't a clue what happens in casting with a fly rod. I have stopped when someone was passing and when I turned to wait they had stopped and indicated to carry on. I went into the backcast, lengthened the line and was about to false cast when I caught them moving across my back and stopped. I saw that happen hundreds of times on Drumpellier and people moaning about it being dangerous. The anglers got the blame of course not the idiots on the path.
elf 'n' safety init.
Can hardly blame the councils. Allow it then standby to be sued by the ambulance chasers.
Although we do have a lease of the pond for casting, there have been a number of incidents involving the public. This is mainly what precipitated the move to "up the field" for overhead casting. We don't have a lease of the field, but so far so good.
There is zero chance of us being allowed to put up signs and even less chance of the public taking any notice of them :).
Alex
I had a couple of close things salmon fishing the Don Haughton Park beat years ago. A few dug walkers and kids came close to wearing size 2 double Stoat's Tail earrings. :lol: OK to joke about, but it would not have been so funny had it happened.
I would have thought that as you guys are not casting with hooks or other dangerous, sharp objects there would have been fewer safety issues.
You can still take someone's eye out with the end of a flyline, Fred. Think whip. And as for reasoning with the council and their lawyers :deadhorse
Quotewhat incidents alex?
Nothing serious Alan, I've just seen near misses and people taking umbrage as well as others being unsure how to navigate through a line up of maybe a dozen guys' backcasts. As you know, people cycle along the footpath and also some of these longer backcasts were reaching out over the pavement and on to the main road.
Better safe than sorry.
Alex
Quote from: buster1980 on January 09, 2012, 02:24:00 AM
Also a sign letting them know there's a chance of injury if you happen to go within 40ft of The guy with the skip bunnet and the pipe :D. Easy prey Malcolm :tongue2
Hope to be there next weekend.
Craig
Aye and a damn sight further than that if you see an 18ft 12 weight in these delicate little paws! I think most of us who are regulars have had the odd whack and while we are happy to make allowances the general public won't. Isn't it interesting just how close they like to stand to watch speycasting?
Quote from: Alan on January 09, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
what incidents alex?
I've already attempted two fairly lengthy responses to this. Both disappeared to God knows where. So I'll keep this brief, especially as Alex has already covered the salient points. I noted that Craig took the points being made.
You know fine what at least some of these incidents were. I explained one, the most serious, to you. It concerned the complaints of a foul-mouthed angry man who called the authorities upon us. A " polis " arrived to investigate. I explained to him our situation and our permissions etc. In fact, there were two " polises " on that occasion. If I remember correctly, one of them might even have been a " polisess".
Another conspicuous incident occurred when you were demonstrating to young Ollie and thought it would be hilarious to land your flyline on my nose !
The reason Alberto got guideline cards printed and distributed was that there was clearly a need to do so. You have, or had, one . It tells you why we benefit from use of the pond and surrounding areas, even with the " restrictions ".
You are right about the speycasting problem, mind you. That's why these guidelines apply equally to the big rod wielders.
Grumpy Old Doublehander.
Quote from: Alan on January 10, 2012, 10:01:22 AM
Jim, i was not aware of any incident, and in one instance your telling me i caused it :lol:
it comes as a surprise to me that we now have a casting club where casting near water is restricted to a small number of salmon fishers, that arguably are the more dangerous.
Alan, yet another helpful reply from me to you has disappeared before publication ! :) So I'll edit it , from memory, to the bare bones - " Baloney .. on both counts !! "
J
ps - is there some kind of timeout on making replies ?
J
Quote from: Teither on January 10, 2012, 02:47:57 PM
ps - is there some kind of timeout on making replies ?
Only for salmon fishers. :lol:
Seriously though, not that I'm aware of. I think the software gets a migraine occasionally. I've had it happen to me once or twice over the years. Better to type long replies in your word processor then cut and paste it. That way you don't lose your text if it hiccups.
If you hit the CTRL button below the caps button, not the caps lock one the one in between, to capitalize a letter and hit z by mistake then it will clear everything in the editor window. I'm sure there is another combination, CTRL and a letter, as I have done it a few times too but I can never catch which one it is :)
CTRL + C is Copy
CTRL + V is Paste
CTRL + X is Cut
CTRL + Z is Undo (Last action) (Which is you have just typed a lot can cause problems if you hit it accidentally)
Had this issue before and as Fred says if you are going to type a big post then its best to do it in word or something first and then copy and paste it into the forum post window.
Alan,
Nothing to do with Salmon v Trout. No one can overhead cast at the pond.
Speys rolls etc by single or double handers are allowed on the pond.
Thanks, Malcolm. Your point about spey and roll casting for people with all lengths of rod was one of several I made in the lost posts. :)
The " baloney", Alan, refers to your continuing claims that you knew nothing about these matters. I really shouldn't rise to all this stuff from you. You clearly delight in tormenting the frail and elderly. You're not a Messiah, Alan. You're a very naughty boy !! :lol:
T
Quote from: admin on January 10, 2012, 03:02:32 PM
Only for salmon fishers. :lol:
Seriously though, not that I'm aware of. I think the software gets a migraine occasionally. I've had it happen to me once or twice over the years. Better to type long replies in your word processor then cut and paste it. That way you don't lose your text if it hiccups.
Fred [ et al ]
Thanks for that advice. It may be something to do with the set-up of my computer. It just happened again with my latest brief reply to M and A. I'll get one of the young uns to show me how to do this cut and paste lark from Word. :)
Jim A
I rarely make it along to the casting club, but love the fact that it's there if the notion takes me. So it troubles me about that these issues are arising. I read somewhere that Glasgow has more parks than any other European city, so surely the Council could offer alternative venues? Perhaps one where the pond doesn't have a path around it?
Alan,
The no overhead casting rule at the pond has been in place for quite some time. Jim and a few other members also mention it to anyone they see overhead casting. As for being hit, it has happened to all of us but no harm done. We can accept that risk amongst ourselves and we do. However there have also been incidents where members of the public have been hit. That's not so easy to deal come to terms with. That's why the rule was put in place.
Alan,
Please refer back to the dozen or so replies starting at No.593 on this thread. Look particularly at no.597 and no.598. You'll discover that you were indeed a party to all these discussions. I'm sure that when you've read these again there will be no need for any invention of " new problems ".
T
Quoteits none of my business how you guys want to do things, but i been going a long time, i just hope everyones interests are considered fairly.
It is your business as much as anyone else who cares to turn up. :)
I was really surprised that Alberto managed to get a lease of the pond at all. That said, it is my view that it is unsuitable for casting practice because of where it is situated. When we were overhead casting and the club had a busy night, I couldn't relax for watching for potential flare-ups between the casters and the public. That's why I started going over the field.
I don't like the field either. Far too boggy and roll casting is near impossible. The problem is I can't think of any pond in a Glasgow public park which would be suitable. Too much public and not enough ponds.
Alex
I was passing Elder Park today (between Linthouse and Govan) and the thought occurred that the pond there was much quieter than the pond at Knightswood it is literally one minute's drive from the south side of the Clyde tunnel. There are lots of places in fact but most have a disadvantage: the Barrhead dams for one but there is limited parking. I also know of a river we could possibly get on for a pittance but it is about 12 miles north.
I have to agree with Alex, I too seem to spend a great amount of time looking out for pedestrians when people are at the pond. It's not surprising that members of the public get hit as the casts go right over the pavement beside the road. I also saw a cyclist almost get hit a few months ago as she was cycling along the road. The point is that we all do get hit with lines fairly often but it is so innocuous we don't even register however it doesn't mean that every incident is to be dismissed. No one sees everything and all it needs is one serious incident.
Quote from: buster1980 on January 11, 2012, 08:31:41 PM
full of shopping trolleys and dead NEDS within a week though.
In that case the Scottish Gov. will block any such move towards a casting pond. They are relying on 16 and 17 year old ned votes in the upcoming referendum. :lol:
Unless of course you tell them you want to stick a few foreigners in said pond and charge a wee fortune for a few hours of angling to keep the wee shitebags darlings off the streets :worms
daz
Re Craig's initial point, I very much doubt whether any authority would consider this to be a wise time to be investing taxpayers' money in providing a casting pond for a few individuals. I don't and I doubt if many others would. I may be wrong but I think that the Golden Gates ponds were funded through private effort - I stand to be corrected on that, mind you, and apologise in advance if I've got that wrong.
Making inane comments about the Council's attitude to "neds " , dead or otherwise, is equally unlikely to encourage healthy participation from the authorities should we indeed need to approach them again and I do wish people would apply a bit of intelligent forethought before posting on a forum, which anyone can read, on a subject which may be of serious concern to those who want to see the GCC continue to flourish. We know that out there have been a few sceptics and begrudgers, right from the club's beginning.
The reason we did not make a big public issue of health and safety concerns was that we did not want to flag these up in the public domain if that could have been avoided, for very obvious reasons. But everyone available was approached for views on the matter and several date options were given for anyone to be able to come along. Some could not make any date. But a meeting did take place at the Burnbrae Hotel ! On the night of the police incident I explained, at length, to all who were present the circumstances and the outcome - which was that the police were content with our being there for casting practice but did advise the need for great care in managing public safety, a not unreasonable viewpoint, which everyone then present understood and accepted. I distinctly recall explaining it all to you, Alan. And the issue has been raised on a number of other occasions at the pond. I will not debate this further with you. Selective memory is getting in the way of adult discussion.
Away back around October 2010, when this issue was first raised Fred raised concerns about frictions , real or apparent. River Chatter has very recently also expressed some level of concern. Both of these concerns are justified. Going on and on about a situation which most club members seem to accept and understand can do nothing but weaken our position, should these affairs properly come under wider scrutiny, most especially by the Glasgow Council. And that might well happen should we approach that body seeking a change of venue to another public park.
For my own part , I've had enough of going round in circles and dealing with juvenile postion switching. I'm pretty sure others, particularly non CC members, must also be sick of the matter. I leave it up to others henceforth to try to respond to any would-be mischiefmakers. I do thank Alex and Malcolm for their intelligent and informed comment in this discussion to date.
T
Quote from: Teither on January 11, 2012, 11:52:56 PM
those who want to see the GCC continue to flourish. We know that out there have been a few sceptics and begrudgers, right from the club's beginning.
Indeed. It is envied by many. Up in the barren wastelands of Aberdeenshire, for example, there is nothing that comes close, but that may be down to motivations that are, possibly, less altruistic and posturing is easier than action. All I would say is this; the GCC is pretty unique and although there will inevitably be problems in any kind of loose association it has worked well. The record speaks for itself. I have to take my hat of all who give their time freely to aid others without underlying commercial motives or self promotion.
I can speak from experience here. You wont know anything about it 'till the council lawyers slam restrictions on you. If the police have been called then it has been logged and reported and it will be in the report sent to the councillors and may already have been discussed at a meeting. All it will take is for a couple of people to go to their councillor and complain about the safety issues, even if there aren't any, and it will be discussed at another meeting and, taking the police report into consideration, rules passed. You wont even have a say in it. It is all well and good saying nothing was seen or that not one person from the public has approached anyone in the club to point out a near miss or a safety issue. They wont. They will write, 'phone or approach someone in the council and the next time you go to renew the lease the restrictions will be in place and you either accept them or don't renew and look for a new venue. I fought NLC for over a year on these same issues at Drumpellier when they banned fly fishing eventually stepping down and leaving the club as I don't fish any other method. The club is still there but is now restricted to bait and spinning. The council refused to consider any proposals we put forward.
Alan,
I really don't see what the problem is. It only needs you to be distracted for 5 seconds and a cyclist can easily travel 50 metres in that time. There are all sorts of distractions too - cars, other casters, cyclists. Overhead casting near the pond just isn't on - it's heavily used by the public too. There can be a dozen casters around the pond so it is an absolute certainty that people will be hit by someone. There's no point in saying "I'm different, super careful and look over my shoulder every 5 seconds" because it's not only you.
They don't have to be hit or even nearly hit for them to complain. If they have to stop jogging, cycling, walking or whatever they are doing they will start to get annoyed that you are getting in the way. They wont come and say it to you , they will complain to the council, their councillor or the park management, anyone in authority that they think will listen. As I said, you will know nothing about it until the council imposes restrictions then it will be too late. Address the problems as best you can now and you might postpone the inevitable but you wont stop it happening believe me. I have worked with the public too long and the nicest person will still complain to the authorities for the slightest thing.
Getting water to practice casting on is not easy, especially running water out of season. This kind of practice is questionable and in my opinion it is both selfish and highly irresponsible. It can endanger redds (a criminal offence) if people enter the water and it wastes bailiff's time checking out reports of individuals fishing out of season. Many places now ban wading for winter grayling, but at least that is controllable and the owners and bailiffs know what is going on.
Go away on holiday, come back..... holy feck! What just happened? Think I'll wade through this thread over the next few weeks :lol:
I have been watching this debate, in ignorance of 99% of the detail, with some dismay. What appears a worthy, welcome and worthwhile venture now seems to be bedevilled with misunderstanding, misrecollection and misguided thinking.
Sadly, I have too much experience of worthy ventures falling foul of 'elf and safety, jobsworths, nimbys and professional complainers.
In truth, few ventures would get beyond the planning stage nowadays if all of the above were taken into consideration- a pond!, in a park! what happens if a bairn drowns in it?!!!!
The public will complain to the authorities (including the police) because they are afraid of confronting an individual face-to-face, they are certain of their "right" to enjoy the park, but do not recognise your "right" to cast in the park. There are so many examples of this sort of thing that it is boring to repeat them- but I was paying Edinburgh City Council to play cricket on the cricket pitch on the Meadows one time (to be exact, that date of Charles and Diana's wedding, Moredun Cricket Club were playing the Edinburgh Pakistan Society) when a family brought their picnic to the centre of the wicket and sat themselves down- "as was their right". They were not to be moved by evidence or argument, finally one of our number lost patience and bowled over their heads, the police were called, and we were moved on to a vacant pitch, the family were warned not to follow.
Some positive suggestions.
A few A1 A-frames scattered around the site, welcoming fellow park-users to the area and gently warning them to watch out. Signed "For and on behalf ot the Glasgow Casting Club, by kind permission of Glasgow City Council".
One (or more) members equipped with a Hi-Viz jacket with GCC on the back, to attract and answer/ deflect complaints- you will note that, legitimately, Glasgow Casting Club and Glasgow City Council have the same initials.
Quote from: Alan on January 12, 2012, 05:53:23 PM
clubs are dynamic things, thats what makes them clubs, i think its good to discuss stuff, and good that we have a place to do it here,
That's one important part of what forums are for and they also have to be dynamic and change. Just like clubs, members come and go, some voluntarily some not, some fit in, some don't. It has to be that way or they wither and die. Some have done, some are doing so right now. It's just not possible to have an organisation that suits everyone. You will never please everyone, the sooner you learn and accept that the sooner you are able to usefully focus your energies.
The weak and non-adaptable shall perish. :lol:
Quote from: Alan on January 13, 2012, 12:41:36 AM
christ that sounds a bit grim :lol:
It's just life. You will never please everyone, no matter what you do or how hard you try. As it is I feel guys like you deserve recognition for the effort you put it. No barely hidden commercial agendas, you are not promoting products or services, decent, open and friendly. It has parallels with this forum. Not many would be prepared to do that. These are some of the reasons Glasgow has a first rate and very successful casting club and Aberdeenshire and many other places do not.
Yes there are difficulties, but celebrate its success! :D
Quote from: Alan on January 13, 2012, 05:57:41 PM
i was approached at a game fair thing by one of the english casting demonstrators asking about it, he had heard about it at an AAPGAI
That does not surprise me in the slightest. Fly casting for fly casting sake appears to many looking in, even to many actual fly fishers, as a small, esoteric and very anal world where everyone knows what everyone else is up to. Nothing wrong with that of course, the same could be said about any minority pastime. :lol:
Never been before although I have thought of going as I think this is a great idea. Anyway my experience of both the council and the public is to JFDI.
I really hope the club persists in it's current location and prospers.
One final piece of advice, as soon as someone suggests insurance then yir doomed.
Cheers
Paul
£1 Million accident and liability insurance minimum before NLC would renew the club lease on Drumpellier even without fly fishing. No idea what it is now.
It will be more now Sandy. It's all these bogus claims for whiplash injury. :lol:
Paul,
We've had insurance since day one. We pay £1 a week ro cover this.
Alan,
I notice you mention 18ft rods - I assume for shock effect as the only person who uses rods of close to that length is Andrew Toft. Well, apart from Gary Scott showing me how to do long distance spey casting and that was over a year ago....
It's up to my thighs. About 18" :(
At least that's how far I had to walk in a couple of winters ago (heroically) to get a rod tip back for a fair damsel.
Alex
One of those model boat chappies easily waded all over the pond last summer putting in those markers they sail round
Quote from: Alan on February 10, 2012, 01:11:39 AM
waders, adjusting the length of the rope to anchor them in cold water, bit cold yet maybes :gay4
Get some tights and be done with it, are you a man or a mouse!
Could ask the lad we saw two winters ago on the ice? He'll jump right in for ya!
The club will resume Thursday evening sessions with effect from 12 April. Sunday sessions continue as normal.
T
117 pages im a bit lost here , what does a casting club do ? Not being cheeky just wondering what its about and this seems easier to ask than read it all :crap
Ok , i could nt resist ive had a good look , it does what it says on the tin. A bit alien to me as ive been fly fishing from about 4 years old and thought everyone could do it ;) Guess i was lucky !
Sinbad,
I tend to pop in to the casting club on Sunday mornings in winter every few weeks. It's a good place to try out other kinds and weights of rods. Where else could you try out a 10ft 12 weight or a 7ft 2 weight. Maybe borrow Alan's Helios and Scott's supposedly identical hydros and test them out side by side. You can dispel the myths that a fast rod casts further than a medium rod or that rod performance has some relation to price. Maybe you've never tried a double hander? Chances are someone will help you out.
There are people there who have special interests in all sorts of fishing and casting skills. We have also had some single and double handed competition casters come along. However, not everyone goes every week. Chances are you will pick up much more from ordinary fellow anglers than anyone else. I know I did.
Mostly our own but we have had people like Gary Scott come along with pre-release models for us to try out.
Sounds like a great club and it's pity it's not closer for us northern duffers. :D There is at least one bloke up this way who claims he is an instructor but is fecking hopeless at teaching. He's so fragile egoed he cannae help himself and ends up trying to impress all in sundry with dull tales aboot his imaginary fishing achievements and no one learns onythin. You dinnae want him there. :lol:
Only three at the pond today ...and two of us [ Tom R and myself ] stayed in the car the whole time ! But the bold Ken, newly APGAI qualified, was braving the cold wind with his double-hander - his new venture.
Well done, Ken, and heartiest congratulations !
T
haven't been along for ages but I thought it had changed to Thursday evening.
It's a shame it appears to be fizzling out, but inevitable I suppose. Perhaps it has served its purpose?
The club began its Thursday night sessions a few weeks ago and Alan is right - I did announce that, on behalf of Alberto. However, right from the beginning of the club, Sunday mornings have been on the agenda - ie we have two sessions [ Thursday evenings and Sunday mornings ] in the late Spring, Summer, and early Autumn ... and Sunday mornings only .. through the winter period. It's the matter of available daylight hours which governs these things. It is true that the original permissions sought by Alberto indicated Thursday nights in summer SWITCHING to Sundays in winter but I and many others have done the double, as it were, right from the outset. In fact, I sometimes go over to the pond at other times , just when the fancy takes me. But I'm maybe just that kind of " devil may care " young blade , don't y'know ? :) :)
Fred, I don't think that the club is fizzling out. It's just that in summer it's always tended to be the double-hander guys, in the main, who go on Sundays, for the very good reason that the trout lads obviously take the opportunity to do some actual fishing. And even among the double handers there's always been a lower Sunday turnout in summer - twice a week being perhaps too much for some men :lol:. It was cold and windy on Sunday just gone, which was probably just another factor in causing wiser members to find other diversions ! :lol:
Re Ken, I don't know whether he is a forum member. I was just flagging up that we have yet another CC man who has done the biz!!
T
Will there be anyone at the club this Thursday, 03-May-2012? I'm on my way up to Strathdon from Manchester and fancied calling in.
Nae bother if you all have better things on,
Andrew
I won't be there Andrew, have an exam on Friday morning I'm afraid. Hope the Aberdeen meet is a blast! :8)
Quote from: ennio on May 01, 2012, 01:09:36 AM
Will there be anyone at the club this Thursday, 03-May-2012? I'm on my way up to Strathdon from Manchester and fancied calling in.
Nae bother if you all have better things on,
Andrew
I'll definitely be there Andrew as I have arranged to meet another forum member.
I'll wander along and cast ineptly!!
... so any clues as to when and where: is it Knightswood Park pond from 6.30 ish?
Quote from: ennio on May 02, 2012, 01:27:36 AM
... so any clues as to when and where: is it Knightswood Park pond from 6.30 ish?
. Spot on :)
I took a trip down to the casting club tonight where I met a few forum members and was shown the intricacies of the roll cast and jump roll. I don't think I'll ever make a champion caster but at least I know what I'm supposed to be trying to achieve now.
Thanks to those who gave me the benefit of their advice and whereas I don't see myself becoming a regular I will try and get down whenever I can as it 's a great resource for fly fishers in the west of Sclotland and beyond.
You were fairly zinging that line out Donald when you got it right. Lots of people would be happy to roll 40 ft+ as you were doing. More than enough for wee spate rivers.
I was wondering if anyone could direct me to a couple of photo's I can use for an article about the casting club on my blog ? I'd look through the thread but it's a bit long and don't like using photo's without asking first.
Quote from: Alan on May 04, 2012, 02:33:41 PM
apologies for not saying hello last night Donald, i didn't know that was you! the nasty little breeze made that more difficult than it usually is,
No worries, you probably wouldn't have recognised me from my avatar anyway :lol:
3 years ago... wow! Times flies :lol:
Quote from: scotty9 on May 08, 2012, 07:58:26 PM
3 years ago... wow! Times flies :lol:
Ah the halcyon days eh?
Life seemed so simple back then. :lol:
Ah the good old days :lol: They were stressful!
Quote from: buster1980 on May 08, 2012, 08:02:20 PM
Wish the club looked like that now.
To be honest I think you guys should be very happy with what you have achieved. The record of GCC is impressive and much admired.
Thanks for the warm welcome when I visited GCC last Thursday. I'm sure the weather had something to do with it, but the way that the casters are integrated as park users is really impressive.
It's a pity you have to provide insurance - do the dog walkers need to do this, I wonder ...
Andrew
Quotelooking back it did seem a more er..invigorating experience, Alex used to work harder there than he did at work :lol:
Aye, because I actually enjoyed the CC :)
It's a pity it is fizzling out. Largely my fault I suppose, but in Spring an auld man's thoughts turn to... trout :lol:
Alex
I am hoping to come along at some point, but before I do I would like to put a shout out to anyone here from the perthshire/dundee/stirling area to see if we can get a few bodies together (hopefully a couple of car loads) It would make more sense to do this as
A: it would save on fuel costs as it can be shared
B:it will make it more worthwhile for the teachers
C: (most selfishly) on docs orders I am not allowed to drive for the foreseable future :(
Anybody up for it???
daz
Probably not on Sunday but I'll set up the casting games, I've got all the stuff in the garage. It's pretty difficult the course that we laid out the other week. Any why not thursday? Feck sundays it's summer time (I know!)...
Quote from: scotty9 on May 15, 2012, 11:25:16 PM
Feck sundays it's summer time
A very sensible young man. :8)
I'll show you on thursday if the weather is decent, we can set up one or two of the things.
Its is it still ok for beginners to come to the casting club?
Its a shame if not as if it is losing its appeal (if true) because Glasgow set the standard and should be proud. Alex's says its fizzling out.
I have a passion for angling but am prejudiced by a condition ( Cervical Dystonia) that limits the use of both arms at the same time. ( I cant cycle for instance).
I have been a keen lurker to on this subject of fly casting for 3 years and finally go out and get an outfit for fly and find you are cooling in your interest for helping new guys who might not be able to afford lessons. That would just be my Donald Duck.
I have always thought you guys are amazing for what you did.
Hope to meet you guys one day
Mark Pemberton
Kelvin
My interest in the casting club will probably be rekindled after the end of the trout season, too busy fishing just now :D Got a text from Olly last Thursday saying he had been up and there was no one around, and also that he had been up on a few previous occasions with not a soul to be seen
If you turn up tomorrrow ,I will be the one strugling:). What time does it start or not:)
Mark,
I'll probably be passing Anniesland - most likely about 1900-1930 this evening. I'll drop by and see if there is anyone there. If you are I can show you the basics of the overhead and spey cast but I am not an instructor.
Jim
If you are there tonight I'll put the Spey Casting videos in the car
Quote from: Malcolm on August 30, 2012, 09:00:52 AM
Jim
If you are there tonight I'll put the Spey Casting videos in the car
Malcolm
I'm pretty sure to be along tonight so I look forward to seeing you.
I think too that there are issues to be discussed concerning [non] attendance levels and some other issues which may affect the future of GCC. I hope we get a reasonable turnout.
J
Quote from: Malcolm on August 30, 2012, 09:00:52 AM
Mark,
I'll probably be passing Anniesland - most likely about 1900-1930 this evening. I'll drop by and see if there is anyone there. If you are I can show you the basics of the overhead and spey cast but I am not an instructor.
Brilliant, see you tonight.
Turned up at the casting club tonight. I really enjoyed it.
A big thanks to Malcolm for having the patience to teach me the roll cast and the overhead cast. I will practice for next week.
Only 4 turned up myself, Malcolm, Jim and Tom.
Looking forward to next week.
Glad you enjoyed it Mark, you did really well in a short time. I don't normally go along to the club during summer as it's my main fishing season but hopefully someone else will be there next week.
Good to hear that worked out for you Mark. :D
I thought you kinda did that anyway Alan. No reason I can think of that anyone here should have issues with that.
We can set something up Alan, no problem, what did you have in mind?
Well, since Alberto is never on here to make that call and in any case what you or any other instructor or member chooses to do is no one's business except their own, why don't you make the call? :D
I'm going down tomorrow for a wee cast about. I went down yesterday for half an hour untile the boats turned up. Feel like I'm getting somewhere with my rollcast but looking for some improvement on my overhead casting.
How the **** you do that hauling is beyond me just now.
Mark,
Not sure if I can make tomorrow but some of the others might be there. Maybe not many as it's supposed to rain tomorrow afternoon and evening.
The double haul roll cast is something that some people pick up really quickly and others take a bit of time. Remember that I said one a wee step at a time? The single haul on the backcast is the predecessor to the double haul.
Cheers guys. I know I have to do it 1 step at a time Malcolm, but I'm not getting any younger :D I'll see you there if you make it Alan.
Another rewarding evening for me at the casting club. There was 4 of us there, same number as last week but different guys this week. Helping me out this week was Alan (cheers pal) gasman (top character) and a guy from Finland i could see me fishing the Kelvin with next year. It was really helpful this week like last week and I have homework too :roll:
I wonder how the gasman got his name :lol:
Why isn't he fishing the Kelvin this year?
Quote from: aliferste on September 07, 2012, 08:28:49 AM
Why isn't he fishing the Kelvin this year?
He is, if it's the chap i've bumped into :D
Quote from: Alan on September 07, 2012, 03:29:02 PM
pretty good progress i think even with gasman's remarkable ability to link every casting explanation to masturbation :lol:
Gasman has a unique style of teaching :shock: but very effective :lol:
Kelvin it was nice to meet you last night.
I am sorry if I shocked you with my comments, but everybody who comes to the casting club gets some stick :gay4
Alan nice to see you as well.
Keep
It
Simple
Scotsman
All the best,
Gary
Where and when does the GCC meet, I could certainly end fit from some assistance / tips and would be good to finally meet some of forum "names"?
The casting club meets at Knightswood Pond on a Thursday night around 6.30-7pm.
This will change in a couple of weeks to a Sunday morning.
I hope this of some help to you.
Gary
Quote from: gasman on September 07, 2012, 08:55:20 PM
Kelvin it was nice to meet you last night.
I am sorry if I shocked you with my comments, but everybody who comes to the casting club gets some stick :ga
All the best,
Gary
Haha wasn't shocked mate just having the banter :lol:
Hi guys, I have managed to fit in 2 40min practise sessions in on Victoria Park Scotstoun this week. Casting on the grass not the pond. I feel I'm getting somewhere. I have tried the book under my arm, casting to a stop in front of my face, relaxing my hand on the rod a bit (less tense).
I am still doing overhead and the roll cast and am more than happy to continue until I crack it.
The help I have received from the guys at the casting club has been invaluable.
I will be down tomorrow about 6:30 and hope some of you guys can make it.
Cheers
Mark.
I may manage along tonight Mark. Roll casting off the water is a bit of a challenge and although there are some partial solutions I don't know that it is worth the effort at the moment.
Cheers Malcolm, see you down there if you make it. I enjoy it for the banter and a wee blether as much as the casting.
Mark
I was out fishing for a couple of hours and the conditions here are horrid. Just checked the weather forecast for 7pm tonight in Glasgow and it's bad - 20mph wind gusting to 36mph and wet. I won't be making the trip in tonight - it's a 35 minute journey for me and I wouldn't be staying in those conditions.
Malcolm
Nae bother Malcolm.
I will see whats its like but doesnt sound good.
Cheers
Mark
hello guys, i see gasmans post about the club changing to the sunday morning is that likely to be this week?
hopeso cause i,m still struggling,
looking forward to seeing you all again.
alistair.
Invictor
Sunday sessions continue throughout the year, starting about 9.30 am. It's the Thursday evening sessions which are daylight dependent and can now be considered closed for this year. Unusually, we have been hit by some real bad weather on many club mornings/evenings this year so attendance has been patchy at best of late. You need to turn upand take your chances. :)
T
Just had a call from Robert who is intending to be there tomorrow so I've said I'll go along if the weather is at all reasonable. May be a few going...
We had 4 stalwarts last Sunday and 5 today plus a regular from a couple of years back who was just looking in today but will be there in full casting regalia next week. Things are on the up ! : :lol:
Now,if Gasman's catering service had been in full flow I wonder whether there would have been any significant drop-off in attendance this last year or so ..
T
Quoteanyone seen Gary? got someone looking for a joiner.
I should imagine that Gary is a gasfitter..... "Gasman". :roll:
Alan, I worry about you.... :)
Alex
Gary is a joiner! I was there on Sunday but didn't see him. There were only 4 there. Now that the season is over it would be good to see this starting up again.
:shock:
QuoteGary is a joiner!
With a name like gasman, no wonder he's looking for work. :)
My right arm is still fucked, so Sunday is just a maybe, but I have to learn to go lefty, so I'll do my best for Sunday, hopefully before Auchinstarry later.
Alex
Gary is indeed a joiner. I always thought the " Gasman " tag referred to his wee gas cooker with which he very generously made us all teas, Bovrils etc from the shelter of his van.
He can be pm'd, Alan, I'm sure. Or, Gary, get in touch if you read this this thread.
It would indeed be grand to see some resurgence of interest in the CC. I had to miss last week because of pressing family matters. Tom R was in Ireland, for similar reasons.
I'll certainly hope to be along this Sunday coming.
T
I am still alive and well , I will try to be there on Sunday.
All the best,
Gas-man
I am still alive and well, I will try and get along this Sunday.
Hope to see you soon
All the best,
Gary (Gas-man)
It was good to try out the Sage One and the Loop Cross S1. Amazing lightness in the Loop for it's strength and the 9ft 5weight Sage One is a much better rod than the last "One" I tried. Interesting lines too Alan.
Anyway, has anyone got a Wulff Ambush line that I could try? Any weight will do - I'll bring along a suitable rod.
I suspected that Alan.
The weather looks very good for tomorrow. Hoping to get down and maybe see one or two of you there.
Before I start standing in freezing water up to my wedding vegetables ingraining bad habits, is the GCC still going ?.
All the best to you and yours for the Year ahead.
Tony
Thanks Alan.
I'd be unable to pass GAC if I made my way over to the Quarry.
I'll try and find my vise and tie a few flies if the momentum doesn't pick back up.
All the best,
Tony
Weather is supposed to be reasonable tomorrow morning and it would be good to see anyone coming along. From another thread it appears ther will be one or two others along as well.
Any die hard GAC members planning to be at Knightswood pond tmrw am and enjoy the mild conditions, warm welcome and wealth of knowledge, experience and wisdom. My contribution being "How best Not to do it..."'. Not sure if its iced up or not - anyone driven by lately, if not will try to drive by today? Aiming to try to be there anyway.
Colin
Are there any members of the forum attending the cast club tomorrow ?
The weather is looking good for a change.
Gary.
I'll be there along with Tom R. I look forward to catching up with you guys.
T
I'll try and be there tomorrow maybe about 11 am
Don't think I can make it tomorrow unfortunately.
Malcolm, will arrange to get your reel back you another way as I know you will be needing it.
omg what i learned today with the casting club in less than 5 mins ,brilliant i was totally gobsmacked thanks to maalcolm and gary for helping me today lookin forward to coming back thanks again . :D
There are may good things come from this community Terry, some directly, some indirectly like contact with these guys in the casting club.
Stick with it and with us! There's so much more. :D
Quote from: admin on February 17, 2013, 06:49:04 PM
There are may good things come from this community Terry, some directly, some indirectly like contact with these guys in the casting club.
Stick with it and with us! There's so much more. :D
Totally agree with Fred, from personal experience I have learned so much from the kind chaps at GCC and definitely avoided another year "thrashing" around trying to get salmon rod to cast like a trout rod! (well a little less anyway :8) ) all thanks to the guys giving their time, experience and lads of patience. Was really annoyed that I couldn't be there today especially given the I best decent weather.so far!
Terry,
Good to meet with another Assynt enthusiast. The GCC are a friendly bunch - just like this forum and we all learn a lot from each other - it's a two way thing - which is the best way to learn anyway!
Took a run down to to Knightswood Pond to the GCC this morning, good to see some familiar and new faces (new to me). Had own 15' #10wt set up with Orvs short Spey line ( obtained from Malcolm). Once more received some really good practical tips and coaching which is much needed and appreciated. Feel like slowly making headway compared to start but clearly have way to go especially when trying to cast anything like the full head which I think is 55'!! Hard work today especially when I looked at the chaps further own shooting 50-60' with ease and even chatting as they cast another 60' with little effort - you know who I speak of, just kidding! :makefun
Seriously good to see Harry, Malcolm and others and for their time and patience. I just need to put some lengthy practice time in
Good to see Jim, Malcolm and Tom at GCC today and thanks guys for bringing some Spey lines to try on my Sage 13.5' and for the advice and tuition as always
Really liked the Snobee 1D Spey line Jim nice line, sorry about the loop "crack-off" that "somebody" who shall not be named did. Could not match you guys though for grace & distance with it (Yet) :P
Tom thanks for letting me cast your Hardy Zenith, what a beautiful rod to cast, even I managed to get a half decent Spey, the line just zipped out! Felt lovely, a v light.
Thanks Chaps, will get Sage 13.5 rod setup with a Spey line with more confidence now
That's a lovely rod to cast with. I think it'sgoing to be an ideal sea trout and grilse rod with a floating and intermediate line.
I understand that Thursday evening sessions will start this week, on 18th, from 6.30 till dusk. I'm expecting Alberto to be there and that we'll be talking about future directions for the CC. It would be good if as many as possible could come along for this.
T
Quote from: Teither on April 15, 2013, 11:29:20 AM
I understand that Thursday evening sessions will start this week, on 18th, from 6.30 till dusk. I'm expecting Alberto to be there and that we'll be talking about future directions for the CC. It would be good if as many as possible could come along for this.
T
Thursday evenings difficult, working away Mon - Thurs., pity but will get along whenever posiblr
Hello Jim,
Thanks for the headsup.
Unfortunately I won't make Thursday, but it would be good to hear how the meeting goes.
Only managed a few times, but did try to make it over this winter a few times, couple of times wae the youngest, to find nobody there.
Always seemed to me, speaking only about single handed rods/casting, that it relied heavily on Alex and Alan being there.
It's also very hard not to think of the space without Malcolm, and his brolly :D
RIP friend.
Tony
Thanks Jim
I will be along this Thursday.
Gary.
Alberto asked me to post a reminder that we are now into evening sessions for the summer and to give an update on the position of and outlook for the CC.
Two weeks ago we had five people at the first Thursday evening session of the year. Last week there were only three attending. Sunday sessions through the winter were much the same. At this level of attendance, meeting insurance costs becomes well nigh unsustainable. So a decision will have to be made in the next week or so as to whether we continue . If we get no sign of improving attendance, insurance and formal permission will be lapsed and the CC will no longer exist.
Hopefully more folk will come along and help to keep going what is a really good facility.
T
That's a shame Jim, but perhaps it has ran it's course? These things need new blood or new ideas to keep them fresh. The success of this club has been astonishing.
I only wish there was one in Edinburgh as I'd be along like a shot!
Shame to hear that though and I hope the appeal helps.
Hoolet.
Quote from: Hoolet on May 02, 2013, 11:39:59 AM
I only wish there was one in Edinburgh
Lot's of areas look at the Glasgow club in awe and envy. There were a few poor attempts in the North East but they were doomed to fail as all you had to do was lightly scratch the surface and it became obvious they were driven ego and commercialism and not altruism like the GCC.
Quote from: admin on May 02, 2013, 03:50:10 PM
Lot's of areas look at the Glasgow club in awe and envy. There were a few poor attempts in the North East but they were doomed to fail as all you had to do was lightly scratch the surface and it became obvious they were driven ego and commercialism and not altruism like the GCC.
That's entirely correct, Fred. Very much the main benefit of the GCC has always been:-
1 the facility itself, ie the pond, which although not entirely satisfactory as a location, being in a public park, is at least fairly central and is certainly a hell of a lot better than having no pond
2 the friendly informality of the club
3 the opportunity quite often to get informal coaching, help and assistance FOR FREE as well as the opportunity sometimes to try rods and lines etc.
4 the friendly sociality of the CC members.
If it transpires that it has indeed run its course, so be it. I think it will be missed should it have to fold.
T
Quote from: Blanefishing on August 13, 2009, 11:42:49 AM
Just an update on some of the recent posts we meet on a Thursday evening at Knightswood Park pond from 6.30 ish. There are beginners and experienced guys and even one or two level 2, GAIA, APGAI et al coaches on hand to help out and give advice. It is an opportunity to practice your casting, polish up your double hauls etc. In addition it gives you an opportunity to try rods and lines that you maybe are thinking of buying. Also if you have any specific problems such as what wrecked my line? or how to make or what sort of leader to use then we can try to sort it for you.
It is very informal so do not expect intensive 1-2-1 sessions. As part of our deal with the council we have had to take out 3rd party insurance so we charge ?1 for attendance to pay for it. When the nights draw in we have permission to meet on a sunday from 9am until mid day which we will start to use probably in mid september but I will post a notice when we do. This club is partly an extension of Milngavie Flydressers who will be planning to get some speakers during the winter month this will give us a bigger audiance base and if you have any suggestions for speakers please let me know. So far I have had Charles Jardine suggested and Paul Proctor again as we had him up last year.
Finally we get about 20 rods attend mostly trout but some salmon also. We do tend to get glued to the pond but there is also lots of grass around which for trout casts can be just as effective and sometimes less distracting if you want to practice something in particular.
If I can help further please ask. I will not be there until late tonight 13th as I have a piping festival to run.
Alberto Laidlaw
Hi Alberto
Just reading through a bit of the thread and can I confirm you meet every Thursday after 6:30 (I presume subject to weather being half decent)?
I manage a footy team and have training that night but if can get someone to stand in would love to get over as have a number of issues with my casting and whether some lines are suitable for my rod etc.
cheers
Mick
Mick Y
Yes we do meet as you thought. Weather is an issue for individuals to decide for themselves but some of us go along anyway. Mind you there were only two of us on Sunday past.
Alan,
Not sure if your post is suggesting you will be along tomorrow. I hope so. Tomorrow looks like being D Day for the future so it's important that we get as many interested parties as possible to come along, most especially long service attenders who have been part of the CC from the start, ie YOU , as well as newer members and the always very welcome newcomers.
The weather forecast is not too great for tomorrow but improving later in the day. But the main thing will be to decide how we proceed.
T
Seven out last night and it would have been eight if the bold Tom R hadn't had his car rammed by a lunatic.
T
In London this thursday but can probably make some thursday appearances after this week!
Can't make it I'm afraid, off on a works jolly this Thursday
That whole day on Sunday was superb and Craig's demo was a real highlight. Hopefully we should get a decent turnout in this weather .. ?? :)
T
Cheers Alan, really enjoyed first visit and nice meeting you guys as well.
Learned a lot tonight, and thought it was well worth coming along, don't think I'll forget the climb a munro to go fishing comment though :)
Quote from: Alan on July 25, 2013, 12:42:19 AM
Bit late on the go but anyone going tomorrow? weather looks favourable, Craig and Scott coming down tomorrow so wall to wall instruction :8)
I picked up Craig's message wrong, I am still in France! :lol: Will be there next week though!
I'll be along this Thursday if the weather isn't stoating down :gay4
I am sorry to inforum anybody that wishes to go to Knightswood pond to practice , that the pond has been drained.
The reason I was given ,which I find hard to believe there have been swans taken.
There have found heads of swans found at the multi storie flats
All the best,
Gary.
What a shocker, don't suppose we know if its permanent, wouldn't imagine so. Sounds terrible to say but would the swans have been removed as a result of our "immigration policies" or open border??
http://www.scottishspca.org/news/1519_muddy-swans-all-white-now (http://www.scottishspca.org/news/1519_muddy-swans-all-white-now)
Just shows how easy it is to jump to the wrong conclusion. Nothing to do with swan munching foreigners after all. Hopefully both swans and fly casting practice will eventually be restored. :D
Quote from: Alan on November 10, 2013, 09:26:58 PM
those interested can continue with Craig Brown at Auchinstarry, this is at his convenience and by prior arrangement.
So that's what he fills in his days with since he quit as Aberdeen manager. :lol:
Quote from: Alan on November 10, 2013, 09:26:58 PM
No consequence to casting club, that ended a while back, those interested can continue with Craig Brown at Auchinstarry, this is at his convenience and by prior arrangement.
Alan,
Do mean that Craig Brown, whoever he is, controls access to Auchinstarry ?
T
Alan,
Sorry, Alan. It's dawned on me [ I think ] moments after posting. I'm now assuming that Craig Brown is our CC Craig and will be continuing to teach and coach people at the quarry ?
Craig,
Apologies to you too. I don't think I ever knew your surname . Maybe it's just an age thing ... and I'm hoping I've got it right this time ! :)
T
That is terrible news about the decapitated swans. Presumably this was done for food.
It must be well over a year since I was at the casting club. Who still goes (....or went until the pond was drained).
Alex
Alex
Attendance has been really sparse this year. It's mainly been the double-handers, I think, tho' Craig and Alan were there quite a bit in the summer. I've not been much myself, due largely to hand problems. I've had my hand and arm in a cast [ no pun intended ] these last three weeks, after surgery to remove arthritic bone, but I hope to get back as soon as possible.
It was another nae fishing year, I'm afraid, for the same reason but again I hope I can alter that situation next year.
I trust you are well and, hopefully, over your own hand/arm problems.
Jim A
Sad to read of the run down of the GCC. It's achievements have been quite astonishing. I guess everything has it's day though.
I'm sorry to hear of problems with the GCC. After my recent trip, where I found myself struggling at times in high winds using large heavy flies, I resolved to make a return to the GCC to get some advice and practice fishing large flies in poor conditions, making quick changes of direction and line management when casting from a standing start to placing the fly accurately at speed. Guess I'll need to make do with solo practice. :?
RC
I don't think you should write off the idea of the CC yet. Even tho' numbers are well down there remains a core of guys intent on continuing. There are 4 or 5 of us double-handers and of the single handers if Craig and Alan come, even from time to time, you'd still have two very fine casters who have always been very helpful indeed.
T
I'll be along more often this winter as my arm problems have largely resolved themselves. I don't want to push it too far, so I've been laying off the pike fly fishing for the time being and just being chucking deadbaits out which is marginally better than watching paint dry..
Sorry to hear about your own hand problems Jim and i hope you get back to fishing fitness a.s.a.p..
Riverchatter, havind chucked a few big beasties about for pike, I may be able to help with some aspects of your casting, but Craig has done a fair bit of bonefishing etc., so he'll probably be your best bet (plus he's a better caster than me). I'll give you a shout next time I'm heading up to Knightswood, but it is likely to be a couple of weeks before i do go.
Next time I'm heading over I'll put a post on this thread as it would be nice to catch up with the remaining stalwarts, plus anyone else who fancies freezing while standing in a muddy field.
Alex
I still plan to get along as many times as possible this winter, have only made it down a few times these past months for multitude of reasons. I am a grateful receipient of loads of advice, tuition and tips on the rouble hander from the kind hearted attendees. Afraid it's been a v quiet season this year with only a handful of outings ..... Aim to change that next season.
Quoteover the summer Scott and Craig put in some intensive hours which led to Scott passing the FFF masters assessment, Craig will be next, while they were practicing i tried to keep up and simply got left behind, Scott's was presenting a fly into a 2' ring at 90' consistently with ease,
That is pretty damn impressive progress and as for the accuracy at distance, that is just awesome casting. :shock:
Alex
QuoteMake a few strokes in the air now and look at the angle, if you then steepen the angle and shorten the stroke it becomes a tight sharp vertical pull and rise, rise further into a drift to lengthen the stroke for 90',
I think I get it, (basically casting up on the back cast?) but you'll have to show me. I need the practice anyway. I've hardly cast a fly since June :shock:
Alex
There's life in GCC yet then! Good stuff guys. That's pretty impressive stuff from Scott. :D
Quote from: Alan on November 12, 2013, 11:46:53 PM
the only thing that annoys me is the BFCC this year was advertised as ''in conjunction with gcc'' no one noticed it was gone yet there are some still happy to trade on it.
It's just a fact of life than some will try to latch onto or freeload off the success and effort of others.
GCC was astonishing really and its record speaks for itself. There were attempts to copy it elsewhere. Up in the north east, for example, the attempts failed and that may have been down to a difference in ethos.
Quote from: Alan on November 12, 2013, 11:46:53 PM
There is life in the guys that got together regularly because they do that anyway, whether they do it at the original venue is another matter, the only thing that annoys me is the BFCC this year was advertised as ''in conjunction with gcc'' no one noticed it was gone yet there are some still happy to trade on it.
So from the "past tense" being used in these posts are we saying that the GCC is dead, finished or are you comparing support today to some time in the past?
That's just what I'm wondering, Colin. Not for the first time in this thread I don't get the language being used. The numbers are indeed much scaled down compared with years 1 and 2 but the club continues ! For the record, the GCC is formally approved to date and is fully insured to function, again to date.
Alan, you've been there on umpteen occasions this year so I don't understand why you talk about it being gone.
Next year may well be problematic because no monies were collected this year to fund next year's insurance so a re-think will almost certainly be needed. It remains to be seen whether there will be sufficient collective will for that to happen. The active members will be considering that over the winter period but there is a world of difference between " small-scale " and " deid " !
" Mist " or " Fog " ?
T
Thursdays, obviously, have been a no-no for some time, because there has been nae light ! That, amazingly enough, has happened every year since we started. But you are right that some weeks in the later part of the summer and in the autumn no-one turned up. But some of us have been there on occasions when you were not there, Alan. Getting toward the season end low turnout is also to be expected as people try to get in their last fishing opportunities, and this is especially noticeable given our much-reduced turnouts generally. It's also true that, unlike our first two years, we have not been well-served by the weatherman, especially this year.
Sundays still attract the double-handers and will continue to do so throughout the winter, weather permitting, as well as anyone else who feels like coming along.
The GCC is not " finished ".
So, Colin, and anyone else who feels like it, just arrive and do your thing. " Never heed whit the hoodies croak for doom !! "
T
I don't know, Alan. I'm unable to drive at the moment but Tom offered to run me over Sunday, if the weather is reasonable. I think Garry may pass it fairly frequently and may know the current situation.
J
Oh, I see, Alan.
I'll make my way over there tomorrow and find out the pond situation. I'll post tomorrow night.
Of course, any single-handed practice can be done on the grass, and usually is. But I take your point and I take it in the spirit of helpfulness in which it was made. Thank you.
T
I regret that I did not get over to the pond today so I cannot say whether it has been re-filled. All being well I do intend to try to get over tomorrow.
Does anyone else know if there is now water ?
T
Jim, I'll drive by this week and advise if its been filled
I had intended to chuck a couple of dead fish at apparently non-existent pike today, but due to a lack of motivation I didn't and went to Knightswood instead.
I was on my lonesesome and so headed to Auchinstarry for some company.
I can report that water is in the Knightswood pond, as are swans :)
Alex
I had intended to go over yesterday, Alex, but Tom, who was to be my driver for the day, is laid low with a heavy cold. However, my cast was removed today and, hopefully, I'll soon be on the road again for next week.
Good news that the pond is a liquid asset again !
T
I might pop along myself.
I'd be all up for trying to help with the casting club but I moved significantly further away than an easy commute :lol: What it needs is interest and by that I mean real interest, the kind that kept the same folks coming back week after week and not the chap that turns up just to milk free instruction the moans when they don't get one to one help all night long.
Craig and Alan both have the enthusiasm to keep everything going, Craig's got an approach to perfection driven by obsession, and it works! We might pursure things a little harder in the casting field than others, sometimes you get ridiculed for it but I can tell you one thing, it makes the largest difference imaginable when you want to adapt to all kinds of different fly fishing in different places with different equipment. Get involved if you can.
Don't worry about the BFCC Alan, I did the GCC proud :lol: And since that date I have not lifted a fly rod since they all currently live in Coatbridge and I'm in London, I'll address that over Christmas though when I pick up all my gear.
Can't make it this weekend I'm afraid as I'll be busy catching nothing elsewhere in salty water. Otherwise I'd have gone.
Alex
Working and eating Turkey!
Quote from: Alan on November 27, 2013, 05:52:46 PM
I can't believe non attendance guilt had spread to London and the US :lol:
Pretty poor excuses in my view. :lol:
Scotty9 as some of you will know, has developed into something of a whizz kid at casting a fly and now holds a heap of qualifications as an instructor.
It's nice to see him giving credit to the Glasgow Casting Club where he went from a novice caster to master caster in a short time. http://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/how-did-i-get-into-it (http://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/how-did-i-get-into-it)
Not that we helped him all that much except to debate techniques, offer advice and critique and gave him some fellow nutters to practice casting with as, well as a venue.
Scott was, and is, a very driven young person and put a lot of effort and practice into his casting, resulting in him being an excellent caster of a fly.
Alex
Scott is an example of what young, forward looking Scottish people who don't look for excuses and other people to blame can achieve in the UK.
Whining, moaning bastards achieve nothing, driven, forward looking people do.
Well done Scott, one day you will be a multi-millionaire, good luck to you mate! :8)
His parents live near us and the last time I saw spoke to him was in the local hotel. I think he lives in London now, good to hear that he is doing so well.
Quote from: Fishtales on January 30, 2016, 04:04:27 PM
His parents live near us and the last time I saw spoke to him was in the local hotel. I think he lives in London now, good to hear that he is doing so well.
That's right Sandy. He lives in London, poor bugger. :)
Alex