News:

The Best Fishing Forum In The UK.
Do You Have What It Takes To Be A Member?

Main Menu
Please consider a donation to help with the running costs of this forum.

Fishing and the Law

Started by Inchlaggan, February 28, 2013, 03:38:11 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Inchlaggan

The difficulty is that the law does do much to protect this precious resource, but relies upon the riparian owners taking civil action (at their own expense and without recompense) to bring the law to effect.
The reverse is also true, challenging, say,  the apparent abuse of a PO by riparian owners is tilting at windmills.
However, there are some statutory (criminal) offences that could do with enforcement "The use of more than one rod, for example the use of rods secured by rods or forked sticks, is illegal."
'til a voice as bad as conscience,
rang interminable changes,
on an everlasting whisper,
day and night repeated so-
"Something hidden, go and find it,
Go and look beyond the ranges,
Something lost beyond the ranges,
Lost and waiting for you,
Go."

Wildfisher

Quote from: Inchlaggan on February 28, 2013, 06:06:26 PM
the apparent abuse of a PO by riparian owners is tilting at windmills.

I can assure you it most certainly is not. It is very real and ever present.  The Tay almost had its PO rescinded because of such abuses in the past, but getting  that sorted relied on anglers creating merry hell. In Aberdeenshire anglers won't tackle it for their own reasons who knows why? You can speculate of course:  self interest - cozy arrangements - apathy - reluctance to rock boats - could not care less - a preoccupation  with stockie bashing?  It could be any  or none of those. There may be many reasons, other reasons, but whatever it does not get sorted. Hence my assertion that if we don't remain on our guard we will only have ourselves to blame if we lose what we have. In my opinion anglers are their own worst enemy. Too few are willing to get off their fat,  lazy, apathetic  arses and do something about anything. But perhaps I just have a low opinion of us!  :lol:

fergie

Quote from: Inchlaggan on February 28, 2013, 06:06:26 PM
The difficulty is that the law does do much to protect this precious resource, but relies upon the riparian owners taking civil action (at their own expense and without recompense) to bring the law to effect.
The reverse is also true, challenging, say,  the apparent abuse of a PO by riparian owners is tilting at windmills.
However, there are some statutory (criminal) offences that could do with enforcement "The use of more than one rod, for example the use of rods secured by rods or forked sticks, is illegal."


Does that mean almost all pike anglers in this country are fishing illegally.?

Inchlaggan

Quote from: fergie on February 28, 2013, 08:12:00 PM

Does that mean almost all pike anglers in this country are fishing illegally.?
As I read it, yes.
'til a voice as bad as conscience,
rang interminable changes,
on an everlasting whisper,
day and night repeated so-
"Something hidden, go and find it,
Go and look beyond the ranges,
Something lost beyond the ranges,
Lost and waiting for you,
Go."

Wildfisher

I'm not so sure. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure rod rests and using more than 1 rod were made legal when the legislation was changed in the early 2000s for coarse fishing. I remember at the time wondering if that was wise as it would give the multi-rod gangs at places like Loch Earn a get out. I have nothing against coarse fishing or fishers, but this kind of fishing has no tradition in Scotland and fish like roach etc are appearing  in places they were unknown not that long  ago. Pike are also almost certainly being moved around by anglers. Might the two things be related?

Part-time

Quote from: Inchlaggan on February 28, 2013, 03:52:32 PM
Don Estuary

"A portion of a circle of 400 yards radius to be drawn from a centre placed mid-channel in the river where it joins the sea at low water of equinoctial spring tides, and continued shorewards by tangents to the circle drawn to the nearest points of the shore of the respective sides of the river at high water mark, also of the equinoctial spring tides."

I used to regularly fish the Don estuary as a youngster for flatties ledgering with earthworms. Definetely within the estuary limit, as defined above, and lots of other people did and still do. Watched regularly by bailiffs and never any problem so does that estuary limit only apply to salmon/seatrout fishing? If I caught a salmon or seatrout while ledgering for flatties do I break the law if I return it unharmed? If I went back there this year SWFFing for estuary bass with a clouser minnow, catch a salmon by accident and return it unharmed to the water do I break the law?

Buanán

Quote from: Part-time on February 28, 2013, 10:19:10 PM
I used to regularly fish the Don estuary as a youngster for flatties ledgering with earthworms. Definetely within the estuary limit, as defined above, and lots of other people did and still do. Watched regularly by bailiffs and never any problem so does that estuary limit only apply to salmon/seatrout fishing? If I caught a salmon or seatrout while ledgering for flatties do I break the law if I return it unharmed? If I went back there this year SWFFing for estuary bass with a clouser minnow, catch a salmon by accident and return it unharmed to the water do I break the law?

I'm sure Ken will correct me if I'm wrong, but since the middle of last decade it's illegal to "fish for" sea trout within a kilometer of the mean high tide mark without a permit. If you caught one ledgering and put it back no problem. It's been illegal to fish for Salmon without a permit, or rights for generations now. The bailiffs take no action, because your sea fishing and very unlikely to catch a Salmon on a lugworm, you could perhaps catch a sea trout mind, but it tends to be the salmon their keen to keep an eye on.

Depending who the estuary belongs to depends on fishing rights. Crown Estate owned shore and estuary can be fished legally for any fish with a swim bladder within certain tidal limits, except Salmon, there are restrictions on the right of way for fishing and navigation in the CE owned tidal reach, as all right of way and access users must give way to legal Salmon fishing and it's associated activities. The 200X?, can't remember the year, "salmon and sea trout act" is in direct conflict with these "rights"on crown estate tidal zones, as far as fishing for sea trout is concerned.

On the east coast you'd be hard pushed to claim a sea trout as a "legal" trout as defined by crown estate "rights" to fish for all fish with a swim bladder, including trout, such as slob trout, but in crown estate waters it's up to the procurators fiscal to prove a trout a "sea" trout under the salmon & sea trout act. A little fuzzier on the west coast with the propensity of slobs, unless the act was amended, it all comes down to classification of what constitutes a "sea" trout. Me, I fish for just "trout"  :roll:  as I figure it's safer that way, but then I try not to get caught  :8)   

Part-time

Quote from: Buanán on March 01, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
Me, I fish for just "trout"  :roll:  as I figure it's safer that way, but then I try not to get caught  :8)   

I follow a similar approach but err even more on the side of caution and only fish for saltwater species :8)

Inchlaggan

Had a trawl through the more recent legislation, Fred was correct, so a correction must be made on number of rods-

3A Fishing by rod and line.

(1)For the purposes of this Act, a person shall be treated as fishing for or taking fish by rod and line in the circumstances set out in subsection (2), (3) or (4) only if the condition specified in the relevant subsection is met. .

(2)Where a person— .

(a)is fishing for or taking salmonids, and .

(b)is not doing so from a boat, .

the condition is that the person uses a single rod and line and that the rod is being held by the person.

(3)Where a person— .

(a)is fishing for or taking freshwater fish other than salmonids, and .

(b)is not doing so from a boat, .

the condition is that the person uses no more than 4 rods for that purpose at any one time.

(4)Where a person— .

(a)is fishing for or taking fish, and .

(b)is doing so from a boat, .

the condition is that no more than 4 rods are used on the boat for that purpose at any one time.

(5)In this section, "salmonids" means all fish of the family Salmonidae.". .

I have not yet found Buanan's "sea trout 1Km" rule, but a sea trout is Salmo trutta in the sea or estuary, local names - slob and bull for example- make no difference.
'til a voice as bad as conscience,
rang interminable changes,
on an everlasting whisper,
day and night repeated so-
"Something hidden, go and find it,
Go and look beyond the ranges,
Something lost beyond the ranges,
Lost and waiting for you,
Go."

Fishtales

You missed this.

"6
Fishing for salmon without right or permission


(1)
Any person who without legal right, or without written permission from a person having such right, fishes for or takes salmon in any waters, including any part of the sea within 1.5 kilometres of mean low water springs, shall be guilty of an offence, and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

"salmon" means all fish of the species Salmo salar and migratory fish of the species Salmo trutta and commonly known as salmon and sea trout respectively or any part of any such fish;"

""trout" means non-migratory trout of the species Salmo trutta living in fresh water or in estuaries;" This would include Slob Trout which live in the brackish water in the estuary limits but don't go to sea or farther along the coast and into salt water.
Don't worry, be happy.
Sandy
Carried it in full, then carry it out empty.
http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/

Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

Go To Front Page