http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21469089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21469089)
I would never have thought this would happen in the Chalamain Gap. The death toll on our hills has been heavy this winter. :(
This could have been any of us.
Has to have been a wet snow slab/slope collapse, given the recent fresh snow. I drove south on Tuesday and it was howling through drumochter, -4ºc snowing and really windy. The temperature shot up dramatically Tuesday evening into Wednesday so the freezing level was a good way up the hill. That and the fact that all those buried died, although there were people on hand to dig them out. Wet snow has a nasty habit of freezing solid after a slide, a terrible turn of events.
This avalanche was reported as 400-500 metres across and a 3metre headwall so a big slide for that spot although a known location for slides. More worrying in a perverse sort of way is the string of groups without navigation skills or the simplest equipment. The group found over by the Fords of Avon, five from a group of six - not one with a map or a compass. About a month ago the Cairngorm team were out four times within five days to get in groups all attempting to navigate off mobile phones.
Quote from: Bobfly on February 15, 2013, 02:01:10 PM
not one with a map or a compass.
I wonder how many had smart mobil phones, and secondly how many had smart mobil phones with any battery power left ?
I believe the 5 recovered earlier in the week where with an hour of the ski area ?
Usual story, silly season peaks next week !
I know this may seem perverse, but this type of attrition is to be expected during a "good" scottish winter. Unfortunately, it's the norm rather than the exception.
There can be no excuse for taking to the hills, especially the gorms, without the basics and the knowhow. But people do and I can't see it changing anytime soon.
The location of the car park has much to do with ease of access I reckon and I've used it many time for just that myself. Once as a kid we walked into Jean's hut as an alternative to the planned trip to the shelter stone, so fierce was the Northeasterly we were blown in without a care in the world, we had to dig the bothy out and plug the offending fag burn hole in the perspex window that was leaking snow like an open tap.
My pal was avalanched off "central crack route" that weekend, which added to the excitement, so much for sticking to the buttresses in heavy snow :roll:, all made the more exciting considering the care we'd taken to get to the foot of it avoiding the more obvious hazard. Gordon, the pal, was saved by the tip of his front point snagging as he slid down the groove near the top of the second pitch, all without a runner worthy of the name, we watched in horror from the safety of the chalkstone. All's well that ends well...
It later turned out that as we were having a jape on the way in, three lads (better and more experienced climbers than we were at that time) were fighting for their lives trying to reach the car park, two of them died.
Live and let live, whilst there are volunteers willing to man the teams to go to the aid of those in distress, regardless of the preparedness or experience of those caught out, I can't see the problem. As Fred says above, it could happen to any of us and it does happen to experienced practitioners from time to time.
Apparently 2 were RAF personnel.
The three were from different climbing parties on the hill at the same time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21469089 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21469089)
My climbing partner was avalanched out of the vent while I was holding onto the rock, I was caught in an avalanche in the back corrie at anoch mor while snowboarding, both were small localised avalanches, both when the warning was 3, both could have killed if we hadnt been a bit lucky !
quote from James Cook, BBC correspondent: "It might seem strange but even after nine deaths in the Scottish mountains this year, there is little appetite here for anything to change."
the inferred criticism here shows how far removed from the reality of outdoor activities a lot of journalists and even more of the general public are! presumably he'd be at the forefront of a campaign to outlaw avalanches...
:roll:
Quote from: corsican dave on February 16, 2013, 06:25:37 AM
the inferred criticism here shows how far removed from the reality of outdoor activities a lot of journalists and even more of the general public are! presumably he'd be at the forefront of a campaign to outlaw avalanches...
Yes it's amazing the pish that is talked in the media each and every time someone is killed in the hills, always by people who would not know a hill if they bumped into one. How many people have been killed on Scotland's roads so far this year? Life involves risk.
"Life involves risk" - absolutely true and the avalanche deaths are often just "wrong place at the wrong time" - unless the risk level is Cat5 and folks have paid no heed to route selection. I am more concerned that the navigation message is not getting through in that there are many "lost' groups who had no navigational skills and not even maps and a compass. That is avoidable risk and simple common sense. At least it always was previously.
Quote from: Bobfly on February 17, 2013, 02:55:56 PM
I am more concerned that the navigation message is not getting through in that there are many "lost' groups who had no navigational skills and not even maps and a compass. That is avoidable risk and simple common sense.
Never a truer word posted! I never attended a mountaineering course in my life, but I did make sure I learned to read a map and use a compass before ever setting foot on the hill. Back then GPS stood for Geeza Pinta Super-lager and a phone was a large black hunk of Bakelite tethered to mother earth by heavy cable, so you had no choice.
Quote from: guest on February 17, 2013, 04:11:05 PM
We could be having the same conversation about five deaths in recent years around Loch Awe?
We could, but it seems from info. available that most of those were down to mixing drink with boats. I guess though that to some extent that's the fishing equivalent of no map and compass.
Did my SMLTB Summer and Winter Certificates way back when- it impressed the knickers off a small number of female PhD students at my place of work back in the days- not sure how much I remember now. One thing I do remember was going to do Anoach Eagach from Am Bodach in winter for my "exam" , instructor gave me the proposed route , forecasts etc. and asked me to start off. I took a couple of paces and he called me back- "No point in going any further pal, you've failed, conditions are against that route today." I argued that half a dozen or so other walkers had set off up the hill after talking to him in the time we had been there. He replied that he had told them to to do Am Bodach alone and not attempt the ridge, but worried that some would try. Knowing when not to go was the most important lesson. Back to the hotel and a little "afternoon delight" with one of the above students, just settling down for an evening session in the bar when the instructor popped in with the forecast for the next day. What did I think? I reckoned it would be OK to do the route, he agreed. So early to bed and a long time rehearsing all the waypoints. Instructor Bastard reversed the route in the morning and started me from Clachaig, I passed though!
A wee frost this morning, 15 degrees C now, plenty of walkers' cars down the glen this morning, doubtless on the basis of a good forecast. I always worry how many will walk "the route from the book" rather than make a decision based on conditions, forecast and warnings. Police car and ambulance down the glen an hour ago, plus the sound of a helicopter overhead. I just hope I will not be posting in a "Glen Garry Avalanche" thread tomorrow.
in the shop yesterday: " so is the path to lurchers signposted?"
or how about this one, at the gate by the achintee inn last year: "where's the path to ben nevis, mate?"
it used to be amusing, and occasionally a little sad. now it's everyday and, to be honest, infuriating.
I too find it both infuriating and, at times, just plain stupid. Over the last twenty years I have helped put over £200,000 into to the costs of mountain safety courses for navigation, avalanche safety and mountain first aid. We aim particularly at student clubs or any members of the MCofS. You go out on the hills at any time you take a map and compass and know how to use them. In the winter you add an ice axe and a pair of crampons and spare clothing. Helping folks who have had bad luck or whatever is one thing but some groups seem to have barely a bit of common sense between them which seems remarkable when there is so much information available nowadays and far far more than in years gone by.
Interesting article here from Heavy Whalley about this year's and recent years' accidents, and media frenzy commentaries.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5258 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5258)