How often should you clean your fly lines, if your fishing every other wknd during the season?
Whats the best method for cleaning your lines?
Alan :D
Il clean mine tomorrow in the loch Alan n itl get a good stretch when I hook one of these big boys. Toprod will just need to wash n stretch his in the hoose I doubt heel get much action the morn. Haha :two;
I have only ever cleaned one of my fly lines and it never fished the same again so don't bother
Used to clean my lines every close season. Getting lazy so other than if I get scum & more importantly grit on them I seldom clean just laziness on my part now.
A wash in warm soapy water ( not a harsh detergent) fairly liquid will do & dry with a cloth not one of these "yellow dusters" a cut up cotton towel is fine.
Tight Lines
Vintage fly the only thing u will catch is the col, I'm not known as toprod for nothing, no doubt most of my day on the loch tomorrow will be spent giving u advise. U know the score anyway with me when it comes to fishing you'll be eating your words once again hahaha
Used to clean each line at nod of season with a waxy/oily fly line cleaner/restorer called perma plas or something like that, but think with modern lines just once a year in soapy water would suffice!
In all my years of fishing, I've never cleaned any of my fly lines before and there's no excuse for it, it's just pure laziness!!
Anyway I've been sorting all my stuff out today, for when my season finally gets underway and this is when "cleaning my lines" came into my head. Just shows u how scunnered I am, waiting for this cold weather to get to f#=!
Surely if you give your lines a wee clean every now and then, they should last a bit longer. :D
I clean them when I think they need it, that can be every couple of outings depending where I am or not at all. The line itself lets me know through sound and feel as it passes through the rings.
I clean my floating lines now and then with warm soapy water, then with clean water, dry them by pulling through a cloth then coat them with Snowbee line slick. Sounds a lot of work, but it's not if you get one of these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Line-Winder-Fishing-Line-Winder-Fly-Line-Mono-/370553275976?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item5646b24648 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Line-Winder-Fishing-Line-Winder-Fly-Line-Mono-/370553275976?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item5646b24648)
I am in no doubt it makes a big difference to how well the line shoots.
i don't clean them as often as I should, but what I would say is to avoid those yellow dusters or other lint traps when drying the line off. One of these microfibre cloths or a chamois is much better.
Alex
A soft cotton dish towel is good too Alex, but as you say avoid any cloth that deposits lint.
Quote from: Alan on March 30, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
i used to inspect lines by running them under a digital microscope :?
no need to clean a fly line unless it gets dirty, if you do its not a good idea to use detergent, it leaches out the plasticisers that keep the line supple,
lubing with a line treatment is another matter, takes 2 mins to run a bit of lubed up cloth from one end to the other, replaces plasticisers, this makes a bigger difference to ease of casting than buying a new line or rod, the cast is smoother, hauling easier, and the line shoots way further, i lube at least daily when fishing, snowbee line lube, about a quid, lasts a season, a well maintained line improves with age, they get harder and more slipy as they build up a patina,
said it before but i handed a rod to someone at the casting club, they were not impressed, 5 mins later handed them another rod and it was the best rod they ever picked up, what rod is that? the same one with the line cleaned.
Agree with Alan, line really zings when I have treated with line plasticiser/restorer ( must look for name of one I used ), I didn't o it as often though as Alan but that's just laziness on my part.
Thanks for all the advice folks :D
I'll give my lines a good clean over the wknd and will have a look on-line, for snowbee line slick or something similar.
Cheers again
Alan :D
Remember don't put line slick on anything other than floating lines. :D
Quote from: Alan on March 30, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
i used to inspect lines by running them under a digital microscope :?
no need to clean a fly line unless it gets dirty, if you do its not a good idea to use detergent, it leaches out the plasticisers that keep the line supple,
lubing with a line treatment is another matter, takes 2 mins to run a bit of lubed up cloth from one end to the other, replaces plasticisers, this makes a bigger difference to ease of casting than buying a new line or rod, the cast is smoother, hauling easier, and the line shoots way further, i lube at least daily when fishing, snowbee line lube, about a quid, lasts a season, a well maintained line improves with age, they get harder and more slipy as they build up a patina,
said it before but i handed a rod to someone at the casting club, they were not impressed, 5 mins later handed them another rod and it was the best rod they ever picked up, what rod is that? the same one with the line cleaned.
It is impossible to replace plasticisers in PVC, they are added at manufacture, ( no need to believe me, look it up,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer ), and there is no known way to replace them in finished products like PVC although all sorts of stuff is sold that purportedly does so, all these things are scams, it is quite impossible. Detergent has little or no effect on the plasticisers in PVC, they are part of the structure of the plastic. They will however deteriorate over time. There is nothing you can do about it. Using various lubricants on the line will improve performance on a CLEAN line, if you put them on a dirty line then you end up with very fine grinding paste, especially in sandy environments, this will damage the line and your rod rings.
Remember, don't put line slick on anything other than floating lines. :D
Cheers fred, i'll keep that in mind :)
I have cleaned lines in the past but these days I don't have time to clean fly lines. Snowbee line lube sounds good, I'm guessing it helps floating lines float and therefore not useful for sinking lines?
Quote from: Colliemore on March 31, 2013, 09:09:02 AM
I have cleaned lines in the past but these days I don't have time to clean fly lines. Snowbee line lube sounds good, I'm guessing it helps floating lines float and therefore not useful for sinking lines?
What most of the various dressings do is coat the line with lubricant. Some of these lubricants also contain "floatant" of various types. It is a very bad idea to use this on sinking lines. What happens is that the lines will no longer cut the surface film. If you have done this accidentally you will discover that a sink-tip will no longer sink ( unless you slash it down hard). The only way to remove this is with iso-propyl alcohol. A good wipe down with dilute fairy liquid will keep most lines pristine for a very long time. If you use various dressings on floating lines, they float higher as they no longer penetrate the surface film. You may or may not want this depending on how you fish. If, for instance, you use a "neutral" density line and treat it with floatant it will behave like a silk line, and float ON the surface film. Plastic floating lines normally float due to positive buoyancy. They penetrate the film and displace water equivalent to their buoyancy. This is due to the hollow glass balls which are integrated into the PVC.
You have to be careful what dressings you use and what for. There are so many old wives tales extant about this that it just is not funny at all and confuses people very badly.
Soaking plastic fly lines in various stuff in the hope of changing the properties of the line is absolutely pointless, it wont work, and will likely damage the line.
Both Highlander and Fred gave you the best advice. Wash the line in warm soapy water now and again and dry with a soft lint free cloth. You don't need to use any dressings at all. If you do use a dressing then make sure you know what it is and why you are using it.
Some general info; http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choose-line-home.html (http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/choose-line-home.html)
Quote from: Colliemore on March 31, 2013, 09:09:02 AM
I'm guessing it helps floating lines float and therefore not useful for sinking lines?
Yes and yes - and don't use too much and end up with it all over yours fingers, then leader, then tippet and watch it all bob around on top of the water! :roll: :lol:
Quote from: Guddler on March 31, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
Yes and yes - and don't use too much and end up with it all over yours fingers, then leader, then tippet and watch it all bob around on top of the water! :roll: :lol:
Thanks Mike!
I guess I'm good at guessing :8)
Guddler Bobbing around on top of the water is my go to method :D
The line lubricant I have used - Snowbee line slick most certainly does make a noticeable difference to shooting performance and I have not noticed any damage caused by it.
Quote from: Colliemore on March 31, 2013, 06:11:52 PM
Thanks Mike!
I guess I'm good at guessing :8)
Guddler Bobbing around on top of the water is my go to method :D
For most things it's best not to use anything at all except warm soapy water. on both floating and sinking lines. Fly lines are self lubricating. They float or sink because of intrinsic properties. You can reduce friction by using some things like silicone, armor-all, and a load of other stuff which may or may not allow you to cast further, but it may well also have side effects you do not want. In the course of fishing fly lines can accumulate various stuff on their surface. This is invariably detrimental. Cleaning in warm soapy water will maintain both floating and sinking lines perfectly for all of their useful life. I carry dilute fairy liquid in a small container with a sponge. I use this mainly on my leaders and flies to make sure they sink. Even a tiny amount of floatant or finger grease will prevent a leader from sinking properly.
It is best to avoid any other stuff at all unless you know exactly why you want to use it and the possible consequences.
In some cases it is difficult to impossible to remove various stuff from the surface of a fly line. Iso-propyl alcohol will remove some stuff, but there is a lot of stuff out there that can not be easily removed if at all, and most of it will ruin your line for its intended purpose.
There is nothing you can do about plasticisers. They migrate out of the PVC over time. Scientists and chemists have been trying for a very long time to find a way to add plasticisers to PVC and other stuff, up to now nobody has found a way to do it. ( Not for fly lines, mainly for insulation on wiring etc. As the plasticisers migrate the insulation becomes brittle and cracks. The person who finds a way to do it will be a multi-millionare immediately).
I clean my lines at least once a year and then apply armour all . It a silicone based solution and is great. I am convinced this makes lines last longer.
I get around 7 years out a good line.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Alan on March 31, 2013, 08:33:36 PM
Mike i'd be very wary of fairy liquid or any detergent, these are designed to digest oils then be be rinsed off, rub some into your hands and you can feel them drying out as they eat the oils in there, i don't think many clean lines to make them look cleaner, the aim is to keep them supple and shootable, lines have grippy tacky feel after washing in detergents that doesn't help performance, commercial high concentrate detergent removes the surface of cellulose paint if you get the dilution wrong, there are things that leach plasticisers out and detergent is one of the most effective leachers you can get! i'd avoid neat fairly liquid on Cortland lines in particular.
I am not going to argue about it. If you really want the relevant information you can easily look it up.
Detergents generally are absolutely harmless to PVC fly lines. The same can not be said of all the various "dressings" which are on the market. The properties of plastic fly lines are intrinsic. You can alter the behaviour of some lines by rubbing various stuff on them, but the alteration might not be what you want. Silicone is especially a problem because it gets on everything and is very difficult to remove.
The ONLY thing that governs the flexibility of a PVC fly line is the temperature. The plastic alters its behaviour according to the glass transition temperature which is designed in ( by the type and amount of plasticisers added at manufacture). This is not alterable by any means at all.
There is no way to leach plasticisers out of PVC. The plasticisers migrate out over time. Anything that would remove plasticisers will melt the plastic.
You are telling people some right old nonsense here, and some will believe you and cause themselves grief as a result.
You can use various line dressings if you want but you need to know what they do.
Armor-all was mentioned. It works well but is more or less impossible to remove if you decide you want the line to behave as it was designed to do. Alcohol will work but you may have to do it a few times. I have had to do this for quite a few people who have treated their sink tips with it. If you do this the tip will no longer sink. Neither will a neutral density fly line ( slow sinker),which is cast gently, it floats on the surface film.
I use fairy liquid routinely on all my lines. Some are very old indeed and still work perfectly.
You can believe whatever you like, but if you are going to give people advice you need to know the basic facts.
Washing up liquid is recommended by some line manufacturers as far as I remember. As Mike says, plasticisers leach out over time, some substances will dry the line out and it will crack but there is no way to replace them when they are lost. All I do is rub the line with a dry micro cloth which seems to clean and makes the line slick again, to coat floating lines all I use is red Mucilin and that is very seldom.
Quote from: fishtales on March 31, 2013, 09:28:57 PM
Washing up liquid is recommended by some line manufacturers as far as I remember. As Mike says, plasticisers leach out over time, some substances will dry the line out and it will crack but there is no way to replace them when they are lost. All I do is rub the line with a dry micro cloth which seems to clean and makes the line slick again, to coat floating lines all I use is red Mucilin and that is very seldom.
Quite true. I think the major problem here is once again one of terminology. Plasticisers are not "leached" out of the plastic, they migrate out of it. There is no way to leach plasticisers out of PVC, they are part of the molecular structure of the plastic. They are also the reason plastic fly lines can be made at all.
The worst thing you can do to a fly line is to leave it in the hot sun or near any other source of heat. This will cause the plasticisers to migrate out very quickly and the line will dry and crack. Once that happens there is nothing you can do about it.
Like Mike I have used a few drops of "Fairy Liquid" in "warm water for many years & I have not noticed any difference in the line other than it is clean which after all was the reason of doing it in the first place.
We are not talking Armour All , Pledge, Dash Wipe,or any other supposed additions to make us gain that elusive few yards. Just cleaning a cruddy or gritty fly line.
Fly line manufacturers go to great lengths to supply us with the "latest" "super" "slick" lines & charge us not an inconsiderable amount of out hard earned cash to possess the damm things. & what do we want to do?
Rub them with Armor All, Silicone, Lube Wizz or any other "little gem" that some mad man comes up with.
If you feel the need to go "great distances" get a boat or spin.
:roll:
Tight Lines
Quote from: Alan on March 31, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
Common Mike, i treat lines obsessively to get every inch of performance out of them, the method i use is what Rio only now recommend, i got my tips from the Scottish spey casting team, they need every inch, i just like it to be easy to cast, a couple of drops of fairy liquid in water will remove dirt, putting it on neat leaves it dry and grippy and then needs something to get it back to the condition it was in before, a quick lube through a cloth gives exactly the same result without washing.
No problem with that, you can alter the behaviour of some lines in various ways and if you know why you do it and the possible consequences then go ahead. For most people just an occasional cleaning in warm soapy water is quite sufficient. Although a regular cleaning is better.
I have spoken quite extensively with various people at RIO and other manufacturers over the years. Nowadays many want to add to their "market share" with "line cleaners" and various "dressings". At one time practically all recommended simple warm soapy water, but it's very difficult to sell that! :)
PVC lines are self lubricating. You don't need to add anything at all although some products will indeed reduce friction somewhat more. Tournament casters and some "obsessives" try all sorts of stuff, and doubtless some of it achieves the results they are looking for, but the plain truth as Alan ( Highlander) described excellently, is that they are completely superfluous for the majority of anglers and indeed in many cases will be detrimental for various reasons.
You should not put detergent on the line neat. That will remove some of the self lube ( some of the stuff that migrates to the line surface). It wont clean very well either. Use it diluted in water, and rinse and dry it after cleaning.
Quote from: Mike Connor on March 31, 2013, 08:43:29 PM
Armor-all was mentioned. It works well but is more or less impossible to remove if you decide you want the line to behave as it was designed to do.
This is what I use, if and when required. The line behaves exactly as I want it. I cast, I catch fish.
Quote from: east wind on March 31, 2013, 10:36:01 PM
This is what I use, if and when required. The line behaves exactly as I want it. I cast, I catch fish.
Me too. Armorall dashboard wipes for my floating lines.
It slicks the line up pretty well, aiding shooting/hauling and hasn't destroyed any of my lines. If it is difficult to remove, then so much the better :)
Alex
Yip
Quote from: Alan on March 31, 2013, 11:49:51 PM
Does armorall act as a floatant?
Yes, anything with silicone in it will act as a floatant. Silicone repels water. The main advantage of armor-all is however that it makes the line very slick indeed, and lasts a long time. Most other substances will wash off pretty quickly. Clean the line, dry it, apply the armor-all ( there are various ways, wipes, sprays, etc) wait a little while and polish off. It is far better than most other products.
This also works very well indeed if you can't get armor-all;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rain-X-Repellant-200ml/dp/B002J9E4WA (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rain-X-Repellant-200ml/dp/B002J9E4WA)
works on the same principle but dries quicker and lasts longer. Only use on floating lines and be aware that the lines will then float higher in the water ( actually on it) just as silk lines used to for the same reasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain-X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain-X)
It is also possible that these two extend the life of flylines, ( but I would not swear to that!). They seal the surface of the line and thus no plasticisers or lubricant can migrate away from the surface. But they both alter the behaviour of the lines. If this does not bother you, ( many actually prefer it) then it is good stuff.
The rain-x is also excellent for floating flies and works on anything including CDC etc. Just put a drop on the fly.( Or "dunk" it). Allow to dry. Fluff the fly up. That's it. Works best when applied beforehand and allowed to dry thoroughly. Wont work well on soaked flies. I treat most of my dry flies on the bench directly after dressing them. They float like corks and I don't have to mess about applying stuff while on the water.
Quote from: Alan on April 01, 2013, 05:09:58 PM
only tried armorall once, slippy as hell, line companies tend to suggest using silicone is not a good idea but there appears to be no negative effects,
the tiny beads suspended in the coating are actually meant to be gradually abraded, continually exposing fresh sort of thing, you can see them through a microscope, silicone will coat these, not sure if thats good or bad though.
Line companies suggest all sorts of things, they doubtless have their reasons. Mostly financial.
I don't know where you hear stuff like that, anything that seriously abrades a PVC line just knackers it. The beads are there to give casting weight and buoyancy ( they alter the relative density of the composite), they are most certainly not designed to be abraded.
An abraded line is difficult to cast, ( as is a dirty one), and will cut through your rod rings in no time.