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Open Forums => Open Boards Viewable By Guests => Open Board => Topic started by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 06:13:10 PM

Title: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 06:13:10 PM
Seems there are a lot of them about anywhere you find red grouse .

With the SNP and Greens looking to dominate Scottish politics for the foreseeable future I would not be investing my pension in driven grouse shooting  :roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-57000780
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: superscot on May 05, 2021, 06:21:19 PM
Incredibly sad indeed that this is still going on today, Fantastic raptors and those who still seek to exterminate them.
 
If caught those involved should go to jail no fines no community service, simply jail them.  :( :(
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 06:45:02 PM
These Muppets don't seem to have realised that Scotland has changed.

I'm no SNP or Green supporter, but I am smart enough to understand they are going to dominate Scottish politics  into the foreseeable future and already have driven grouse shooting in their sights. The criminal idiots who do this  just hand ammo to those who are out to get shooters, anglers and all those who engage in activates they do not "approve" of. 

Driven grouse shooting is in its death throes and frankly when you see this sort of indiscriminate nuclear stupidity the sooner it's gone the better. When I read this I am tempted to vote for ANY party who will outlaw it and I know I am not alone.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: superscot on May 05, 2021, 06:59:26 PM
QuoteWhen I read this I am tempted to vote for ANY party who will outlaw it and I know I am not alone

Problem is Fred they never keep that pledge ..
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: arawa on May 05, 2021, 07:09:21 PM
Watched a pair of these magnificent birds circling around their eyrie (which has been in the same location for years) while fishing on Friday.
Sickening. The perpetrators must be under pressure of some kind - direct or indirect - from somewhere to carry out such acts.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Bobfly on May 05, 2021, 07:16:11 PM
Is someone looking to cause trouble for Invercauld? Put down the carcase and wait to see? Seems unlikely that someone putting down a poisoned hare would not then keep an eye on it and be then off smartish with the evidence....... ?  Seems unlikely too that someone happens on a poisoned bird in a vast area. Did it have a tracker?
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 07:41:28 PM
These kind of  "it was planted by the RSPB"  conspiracy theories are often trumpeted by the game preservers  and   are about as credible as the idiot nationalist supporters who believe Scottish exports that go via English ports are counted as English exports as part of some Evil Westminster Master Plan to do Scotland down.  :lol:   The public don't believe it and more importantly the police and the politicians who will legislate to reign in these estates and regulate grouse shooting don't believe it.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: caorach on May 05, 2021, 07:48:10 PM
Amazing, the dead eagle lying right beside the dead hare. How often does that happen? Ideal photo opportunity though. It is also interesting that the hare is still in one piece. Anything I've seen having been eaten by a raptor has been pulled apart and spread over a goodly area but it looks like this one hare was spotted by one eagle which came down, took one small peck and then fell over dead. No other birds or animals spotted the likely food source and removed it, ripped it apart, or took a small peck themselves and fell over dead. How unusual.

I completely understand your position on protecting raptors Fred and I also accept that, especially in the past, killing raptors was just part of country life and that some of that still goes on. However I completely refuse to believe anything the RSPB report as being true as there have been just too many cases where the details turned out to be manufactured, the frozen red kite that toured the north of Scotland being one example.

It must be kept in mind that the RSPB aren't a conservation charity, they are a big money, big business with a political agenda and the only product they had to sell is fear and doom. We've seen that the SNP are willing to attempt to put their previous leader in jail, think what they'd do to the enemy? And the RSPB are nothing but the airborne regiment of the SNP. 
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Fishtales on May 05, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
It must have been very fast acting poison for it to kill the bird still on the kill.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: burnie on May 05, 2021, 07:52:09 PM
I'm hoping that there's a serious change in our political group, the so called Greens supported dredging for Scallops when the SNP proposed it to continue in the West coast sea lochs, whilst everyone who knows anything about the damage this does to the lochs were dismayed. I'm hoping that people can see what damage is being done by these pirates.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: emc on May 05, 2021, 07:56:36 PM
Quote from: caorach on May 05, 2021, 07:48:10 PM
Amazing, the dead eagle lying right beside the dead hare. How often does that happen? Ideal photo opportunity though. It is also interesting that the hare is still in one piece. Anything I've seen having been eaten by a raptor has been pulled apart and spread over a goodly area but it looks like this one hare was spotted by one eagle which came down, took one small peck and then fell over dead. No other birds or animals spotted the likely food source and removed it, ripped it apart, or took a small peck themselves and fell over dead. How unusual.

I completely understand your position on protecting raptors Fred and I also accept that, especially in the past, killing raptors was just part of country life and that some of that still goes on. However I completely refuse to believe anything the RSPB report as being true as there have been just too many cases where the details turned out to be manufactured, the frozen red kite that toured the north of Scotland being one example.

It must be kept in mind that the RSPB aren't a conservation charity, they are a big money, big business with a political agenda and the only product they had to sell is fear and doom. We've seen that the SNP are willing to attempt to put their previous leader in jail, think what they'd do to the enemy? And the RSPB are nothing but the airborne regiment of the SNP.

No other scavengers about. Hoodies, ravens, buzzards, the odd fox. Perhaps it was an eagle specific  fast acting poison. Odd.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2021, 07:59:33 PM
Instantaneously lethal dose? Strange. Organophosphates and carbamates are anti-cholinesterases, they'd take a while. But then, a bird dying from an accumulated or slow-acting dose might not do the decent thing and die on a known grouse moor, it might return to an RSPB reserve and die there. These gamekeepers show apparently show an astounding disregard for these beautiful birds but also seem rather short on on the wit to take some very basic steps to avoid detection.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: Fishtales on May 05, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
It must have been very fast acting poison for it to kill the bird still on the kill.

The police appear to be convinced Sandy.

"Police Scotland said forensic examination confirmed the bird had been "illegally and intentionally poisoned"."
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2021, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: admin on May 05, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
The police appear to be convinced Sandy.

"Police Scotland said forensic examination confirmed the bird had been "illegally and intentionally poisoned"."

That is not the same thing. I am happy to accept that it had been poisoned but still doubt an all-but instantaneously acting pesticide.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 08:25:25 PM
Quote from: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2021, 08:09:34 PM
but still doubt an all-but instantaneously acting pesticide.

Having read the news article again I can't see any claim made for the use of  instantaneously acting pesticide. We can of course speculate, but it would appear things have already advanced well beyond that point. It's no longer a matter for the RSPB, it's now a criminal investigation  and the estate has already been raided by Police Scotland. They won't fond anything of course, not even the most moronic criminal  is going to hold onto the smoking gun. Of course it may not be anything to do with Invercauld, it could  be someone with a grudge again the conservation organisations. Who knows?

I'd say the longer term outcome is the most important thing.   Will there be a prosecution?  HIGHLY  unlikely. Will there be longer term repercussions? Definitely, it's just more ammo for those who wish to regulate all kinds of field sports - including fishing. With the near certainly of an SNP - Green victory in tomorrow's elections driven grouse estates will be sleeping less easy in their beds after reading this in the papers.

Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
Quote from: admin on May 05, 2021, 08:25:25 PM. With the near certainly of an SNP - Green victory in tomorrow's elections driven grouse estates will be sleeping less easy in their beds after reading this in the papers.
That is exactly why it appeared in the papers- increase the Green vote.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Laxdale on May 05, 2021, 08:57:51 PM
When I get home I shall pass on what my local vet said about eagle poisonings. All is not as it appears. He investigated after a dead eagle found on Morsgail on Lewis was decared to have been poisoned. The RSPB are a ßhower of lying shites...
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 05, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: Inchlaggan on May 05, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
That is exactly why it appeared in the papers- increase the Green vote.

Might be, but either way it will work. The Greens love 'em or loath 'em (and I am firmly in the second camp) have a track record of  successful  driven grouse moor regulation.  It was the Greens who brought forward the blue hare protection legislation and licensing while the SNP sat, as usual,   obsessing about indyrefs.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: tomcatin on May 05, 2021, 10:54:36 PM
Quote from: Laxdale on May 05, 2021, 08:57:51 PM
The RSPB are a ßhower of lying shites...

Really?

You don't normally find Police Scotland and other constabularies the length and breadth of the UK working so closely with "ßhower of lying shites" in prosecuting criminals?
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: tomcatin on May 05, 2021, 11:08:12 PM
In similar news, you may have missed the news that similar muppets in North Wales chose to deliberately cut down, with a chainsaw, the platform supporting an osprey nest containing the pairs first egg on the North Wales Wildlife Trust's Llyn Brenig reserve. The landowner Welsh Water provided platforms to encourage nesting ospreys which were fitted with remote cameras allowing members of the public to watch in their nesting activities.

See https://www.northwaleswildlifetrust.org.uk/days-out/ospreys-llyn-brenig

I really do despair, who knows what the motivation for this crime was?

Ospreys don't generally predate red grouse, lambs or children

I just hope that it has nothing to do with angling! 
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 06, 2021, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: tomcatin on May 05, 2021, 11:08:12 PM
I just hope that it has nothing to do with angling!

I saw the report on this and it may well have something to do with angling.  19th century  attitudes die hard. I knew a keeper who in the one breath moaned about catch and release lowering  the average size of trout on his loch and in the next breath he was cursing ospreys  for taking all his fish.  All these criminal  incidents are just steps along the road to more and stricter regulation.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Inchlaggan on May 06, 2021, 08:13:46 AM
Police report in full.

https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/news/2021/may/officers-are-continuing-enquiries-into-the-poisoning-of-a-bird-of-prey-found-dead-near-to-crathie-in-aberdeenshire/?fbclid=IwAR37w2M40qDCzbfZ0z6QMofYrxe66Jk2bQ6XzqQOaWW4R813t_yGu8IDODc

The photo does not form part of the report (Police would be highly unlikely to publish "Scene of Crime" evidence) and is RSPB copyright.
It is not claimed that this is how the corpses were found  (which gave rise to doubts about the existence of such a fast-acting pesticide poison) and the Police statement does not state that a pesticide was involved in this case nor does it mention a hare. Again, the Police would definately be very foolish to let such a crucial aspect (the means) of the investigation be published lest it prejudice the case,

As in previous cases, a prosecution is unlikely to happen or succeed. Much better to arrange and publish an emotive photograph and statement (forcing the Police to do the same) and have the issue tried in the court of public opinion. Just in time for the election
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Wildfisher on May 06, 2021, 08:29:16 AM
Quote from: Inchlaggan on May 06, 2021, 08:13:46 AM
The photo does not form part of the report (Police would be highly unlikely to publish "Scene of Crime" evidence)

I think most people who paused for thought managed to figure that one out.  It was obviously a library image and the BBC report stated the poisoned bait was found nearby, not next to the victim. But  then that does not fit as well with the wild conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Just another "rogue" gamekeeper?
Post by: Bobfly on May 06, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
 Unfortunately, most people do not pause for thought ... see the picture .. evil Tory Scum ... at it again !!