Canoe License?

[Midgie Hater]

Been following this with great interest without dipping a toe into the water (will we need a licence for that too?).

I think Fred is right to say that a climate is building which would make such a licensing system more likely in the future. As to whether this is right or wrong? Well, as someone who has scoured the wilds here for many years - like a good few on the forum - I am, at heart, opposed to charging people for access to the hills on any basis. I think if licensing is introduced for likes of canoeing and kayaking, as well as the aforementioned rod licensing, it would seem inevitable that people who are subject to such a system will cry foul if some kind of "boot tax" "hill licence", call it what you will, is not imposed also. It's a slippery slope I think.

One concern I have about this (and I accept that there are irresponsible "users" of our rural areas and associated resources which could be a precipitating factor in "justifying" such moves) is that ultimately it will, by it's nature, preclude many people on lower incomes from experiencing these activities. Now, I don't suppose the much lionised antics of the Creag Dhu would have been overly affected by such a system. By their nature, the members of said would have thumbed their noses at it, but there's no doubt in my mind that what started to become a great "working-class escape" amid the array of middle-class doctors, architects, lawyers and so-forth,  could easily become restricted to the better-off who have more disposable income and can afford to buy the array of hypothetical licences being discussed. This can only be a bad thing. If the above justification of weeding out irresponsible users, is employed as a significant strand of the argument then inevitably there will be an assumption that it is the low-waged or unemployed who are the irresponsible ones. That view already exists. But this is a bogus, ill-informed position. In my own personal experience, and I am sure, the experience of other members here, inconsiderate, irresponsible actions are not limited to such a demographic. I have seen middle-class groups trash bothies and damage paths, leave litter, carry on like lunatics on rivers and lochs and generally indulge in the whole gamut of anti-social/irresponsible and selfish behaviour which gives all of us a bad name in the eyes of some.

Just some thoughts to drop into the mix since it hasn't been brought up

However, it's Easter Weekend so i'm going to temporarily lighten the mood with a slightly related and bloody funny classic - and then i'm going to the river to start some random fires, pee in the water and verbally-abuse passers-by. I might do some fishing too  :lol: :

Fish Licence

[lochgarryfisher]

Been following this with great interest without dipping a toe into the water (will we need a licence for that too?).

One concern I have about this (and I accept that there are irresponsible "users" of our rural areas and associated resources which could be a precipitating factor in "justifying" such moves) is that ultimately it will, by it's nature, preclude many people on lower incomes from experiencing these activities. Now, I don't suppose the much lionised antics of the Creag Dhu would have been overly affected by such a system. By their nature, the members of said would have thumbed their noses at it, but there's no doubt in my mind that what started to become a great "working-class escape" amid the array of middle-class doctors, architects, lawyers and so-forth,  could easily become restricted to the better-off who have more disposable income and can afford to buy the array of hypothetical licences being discussed. This can only be a bad thing. If the above justification of weeding out irresponsible users, is employed as a significant strand of the argument then inevitably there will be an assumption that it is the low-waged or unemployed who are the irresponsible ones. That view already exists. But this is a bogus, ill-informed position. In my own personal experience, and I am sure, the experience of other members here, inconsiderate, irresponsible actions are not limited to such a demographic. I have seen middle-class groups trash bothies and damage paths, leave litter, carry on like lunatics on rivers and lochs and generally indulge in the whole gamut of anti-social/irresponsible and selfish behaviour which gives all of us a bad name in the eyes of some.

Just some thoughts to drop into the mix since it hasn't been brought up

and then i'm going to the river to start some random fires, pee in the water and verbally-abuse passers-by. I might do some fishing too  :lol: :

Fish Licence

Last line made me chuckle 
But re the serious points you raise, you mentioned "weeding" out, the same phrase i used so thought i would chip in again.... absolutely, the idiot minority are not confined to a certain income bracket or any other bracket that i can think of, they are just selfish idiots and i certainly wasn't making any "assumptions".
I firmly believe that everyone should not only have the right but also that everyone would be a whole lot happier if they got to enjoy the beautiful outdoors whether that be fishing, walking, canoeing etc i know i am, but there has got to be some kind of redress or deterrence or something surely to try and stop the idiot few?  Or am i being naive, will idiots always be idiots?
My thinking in the previous post which i didn't type, but i was thinking it... was that the mere fact someone has to buy a lisence, even if it is just a few £ or even for free, they would perhaps act a wee bit more responsibly if they didn't feel so anonymous.
I know i am comparing chalk and cheese but a bit like a firearms certificate, if a firearms holder does act like a prat then there is a record of the person who can be traced and they can be punished or their lisence removed.
I will never know if that canoeist that rammed in to me did it deliberately or not, but he never stopped to say sorry or see if i was ok.  And whilst i was raging at the time there was nothing i could do where as if he had had to get a ticket from the local post office or whatever and his name, address and type of canoe had been recorded then i could have followed it up.
Now whilst typing this i am thinking to myself yea but why make the 99% of the canoeists out there have all this agro due to just the very very small minority but like i said in the previous post it is the litter thing that is really driving my way of thinking.
And just to counter my own argument, i hate the big brother state idea of having to fill out a form to walk up a hill or go for a cast, god i would move countries if that happened but there must be some way of detering the idiots...?

[Wildfisher]

Some politicians want to know who you are and what you are up to

"A Scottish rod licence, it was argued, would not only raise revenue for further fisheries development, but also give Scotland a handle on how many anglers actually participate in recreational fishing, and who they are."

[Sandison]

Devil Water, just downstream from Hexham, before Corebidge, last week...