Fly carpin'...In praise of the Yanks!

[corsican dave]

Okay, I'm going to touch on a number of subjects here, all broadly connected. Hopefully you'll stick with me and see where I'm coming from!

So, carp fishing. And later, more specifically, fly fishing for carp. What is it about this subject that seems to have us Brits completely confounded? I really find it difficult to believe that, despite the huge volumes of writing (one hesitates to describe most of it as literature) on carp fishing, so little real understanding of the fisherman's quarry is demonstrated. The basic (predominantly the only) approach to carp fishing in the UK appears to be this:
1)   find a pond which has been stocked with carp, preferably big fat ones
2)   put aside at least a couple of days
3)   put everything including the kitchen sink into a huge wheel-barrow and trundle it down to a neatly manicured fishing/camping platform
4)   throw literally kilo after kilo of bait into the water
5)   sit back and wait

What really is the thinking behind this? What behaviour of the carp makes this a viable method? Having done a fair amount of research and observation over the years, I can only conclude that it is the carp's ability to recognise new food forms and, to a certain extent become fixated on them that is being exploited here. But that's it. There is no further insight to the habits and behaviour of the fish itself and I would suggest that these methods are more about the habits of the fisherman than their intended target. I'll pick up on this again with respect to fly fishing in a moment.

Any keen observer of carp will note that they don't always sit in the same place and they don't always feed in the same places. They will cruise around in search of food and exhibit a variety of feeding behaviours depending on a number of factors including, but not limited to: temperature, light levels, availability of food items etc. Sound familiar? Of course! It's exactly the same behaviour exhibited by trout and indeed almost every living organism. Except fat, lazy carpers I guess....

What the majority of carp fishers seem oblivious to is the fact that carp have been around considerably longer than commercial boilies (or indeed fishermen) and are actually quite happy to munch away on natural food-stuffs. More than happy, in fact. Some of the older literature picks up on this fact, stating that carp have to be educated to recognise modern particulate baits over their natural foods, hence the need to use gallons of free offerings. One or two go further than this and suggest that on some heavily fished waters carp may actually be spooked by large amounts of bait and regularly fished areas. Hardly any suggest trying to identify what natural items the carp may be feeding on and trying to match them.

I've also read quite a few reports of multi-day sessions where carp simply didn't materialise in the chosen swim. What on earth are these guys playing at?!!  Why not go and look to see where the carp are and what they are doing? Why not target visible fish and work out how to catch them? At least you know where the fish are, which has got to be a good start. And if you can't see them, move on.....

As fly-fishers and keen observers you'll have gathered that you're already way ahead of the game here. Applying these principles to your trout fishing is something you do naturally every day. Note that I'm not suggesting that fly fishing is superior to "coarse" fishing as a method, just that how we go about it is undoubtedly more logical than the standard "chuck it and chance it" of the pre-baited swim merchants; no matter how complicated their rigs and baits are. The very few folks who actively stalk carp with coarse gear are essentially applying the same methods of observation and approach as the fly-fisherman, but they really are the exception rather than the rule. I have yet to meet a real one; just guys who've left their pre-set rods set up a few yards along the bank and have gone for a wander whilst bored.

All of which brings me round to fly-fishing for carp. And it's here that, once again, we Brits demonstrate the stubbornness and ignorance for which we are renowned. Do a quick google search on "carp flies uk" or "carp fly fishing uk" and you'll see that the majority of British articles on the matter present you with a wide range of bread or fish-pellet imitations, designed to be used with handfuls of free offerings introduced to attract the fish. Do you recognise this approach....? Ho hum. May as well prepare your bivvy whilst you're at it.

Come on folks! One of the reasons that natural baits have fallen out of favour with the bait-boys (but not with the carp!) is that it's very difficult to attach them and present them using standard coarse equipment. Even free-lining something relatively large like a grasshopper, for instance, requires incredible skill and patience. Not to mention a complete absence of wind. But not for us! Presenting a single nymph or bloodworm larva to a potentially feeding fish is what we do all the time. It's what our equipment is designed to do. We're actually rather good at it.

Take a look at the American scene and it's a very different affair. Not only have they actively embraced the carp (and many other fish for that matter) as a suitable target for their fly rods; they've adopted the same principles of observation, imitation and presentation of food items that underpin the fly-fisher's approach. Have a look at the American fly patterns for carp, have a read of the problems/behaviours they're trying to reconcile and you'll see what I mean. In a modern world where fly-fishing in particular is increasingly seen as archaic and out-moded, these folks are showing that it's quite the opposite; a progressive, logical and effective method for capturing a wary, intelligent and powerful fish. And it's fun, too!

So, fat carpers; by all means enjoy your Sunday afternoon carping session snoozing on your bed chair with your bite alarms primed. I don't blame you: it all seems very pleasant and I'm sure you deserve a break. But please don't try and tell me that you're hunting for carp.


"Free your mind and your ass will follow" George Clinton et al.

[Wildfisher]

Great stuff Dave, superbly written.  :

That all makes a lot of sense to me, even as a carp virgin. I have never fished for carp and was always under the impression  it was a highly ritualized affair putting in long hours, usually in the dark, with tons of gear and bait. Certainly not for me, but fly fishing is different. I'd fly fish for anything.

You are right about we Brits, we are stuck in our ways, none more so than us north of the border where on still waters, loch or lake the scatter gun approach is still de rigueur for most. The English reservoir scene certainly improved things and opened minds, but compared to places like the US we still have a long way to go. I still get odd looks from some when they see the contents of my fly box.  :lol:

[Bobfly]

Is there really a fish that would turn down a bloodworm or two .... ( Or a garden fly come to that ....!!)
Most of the world's carp will be living in non-boilly waters.
Natural should always be the way to go. Along the road from me is a big coarse fishery for all sorts of fish in a reshaped gravel working. Most fishers need a Transit van for their gear and it is parked up 3m from their reclining chair !!!

[corsican dave]

Great stuff Dave, superbly written.  :

That all makes a lot of sense to me, even as a carp virgin. I have never fished for carp and was always under the impression  it was a highly ritualized affair putting in long hours, usually in the dark, with tons of gear and bait. Certainly not for me, but fly fishing is different. I'd fly fish for anything.

You are right about we Brits, we are stuck in our ways, none more so than us north of the border where on still waters, loch or lake the scatter gun approach is still de rigueur for most. The English reservoir scene certainly improved things and opened minds, but compared to places like the US we still have a long way to go. I still get odd looks from some when they see the contents of my fly box.  :lol:

thanks Fred!  yep, it cuts both ways; with an open mind, some of the fly patterns and techniques being developed for non-salmonids can be adapted for use over here. semi-buoyant patterns or those designed to bounce along the bottom point up make a lot of sense in some situations, for instance

Is there really a fish that would turn down a bloodworm or two .... ( Or a garden fly come to that ....!!)
Most of the world's carp will be living in non-boilly waters.
Natural should always be the way to go. Along the road from me is a big coarse fishery for all sorts of fish in a reshaped gravel working. Most fishers need a Transit van for their gear and it is parked up 3m from their reclining chair !!!

precisely, Vaughan  the basic principles apply to many (if not all) fish species. I personally don't believe there's a fish out there that can't be caught on fly gear. it's just a matter of thinking through the problem, designing the right fly and presenting it in the right manner. for instance: http://fishinginflorence.com/

and yes, you're quite correct: I omitted to mention that there had to be easy access for vehicles! mind you, that doesn't just apply to carp fisheries of course....

[burnie]

The Eyebrook reservoir was a regular place for anglers to get Carp on the fly, it was often on the "bread fly", a piece of polystyrene glued to a hook to look like a piece of Mothers Pride, but I know of fish to nearly 20lbs caught during the '70's, a pal had one on a PTN that was over 16lbs.

[shad]

The Yanks do have it good mind Dave, these are from Lake Michigan endless flats and muckle lumps in 2 feet of crystal clear water,you would love it.









They do still kill them with bow and arrow over there though 

[corsican dave]

just for amusement's sake, here's a reply I received from a professional guiding company in response to an enquiry:
"Subject: RE: fly fishing carp
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:44:28 +0100
Hi Dave,
Sorry my confusion,you would like to fly fish for carp???
We do not do this ourselves,but we have seen it done before.
There are other lakes where you could go and fish,but they are extremely difficult even for normal carp fishing!"

[corsican dave]

Dave is that a professional guiding company here or over the pond.
I can imagine what a professional guiding company for carp here would be like - set your bivvy up here, we have chucked in 3cwt of bollies for you :roll:
Andy

believe it or not it's a professional carp guiding company overseas. shows the same mentality exists all over, not just in the uk. at least one foreign-based company i came across advertises the fact that they supply your bivvy with slabs of beer!! :lol:
I wouldn't even bother approaching a UK company, although there's a guy down in London (!) who appears to have a more enlightened approach (still uses bread & pellet flies, tho'....). to be fair, it's difficult to imagine many venues in the uk where fly-fishing to visible carp is a viable option, primarily due to the numbers of fishermen. although I can think of one in particular that may have been overlooked, with open banks and gin-clear water! I cast to and hooked a tench in this one a few years ago :

[burnie]

Most of the Carp venues I fished down Sooth were heavily planted with willows "for cover", think you'd be roll casting all day. I relatively new gravel pit might work or nice Stately home with mown lawns perhaps(but watch out for the wuperts..........................)

[corsican dave]

Most of the Carp venues I fished down Sooth were heavily planted with willows "for cover", think you'd be roll casting all day. I relatively new gravel pit might work or nice Stately home with mown lawns perhaps(but watch out for the wuperts..........................)

I very much doubt there are many venues down south that aren't managed 'fisheries', Burnie. the one I was referring to is an abandoned clay pit that no-one believes has carp in it. it has some tasty rudd, too. but my main point was about the approach, not necessarily the method; ie sitting waiting for the fish to come to you. I feel much the same way about stockie trout fisheries with casting platforms and the static "across and down" salmon guys  :lol: