Lines and weights

[Traditionalist]

Since I was asked, here it is;


The modern trend is towards stiff ( ="fast" and/or "tip-actioned") rods. Rods themselves are only subjectively rated, by whoever casts them, at the factory etc, and then given an "arbitrary" number. There are no formulas, or standards, for rating fly-rods.

Lines are still built to AFTM standards ( at least most of them). These standards state, that the line is rated accorded to the weight of the first thirty feet of line, not including the level tip, ( if present, not all lines have them). This was also an abitrary line length set by the now defunct AFTMA ( American Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association), because they decided that most anglers, cast about thirty feet of line, most of the time. While this may have been the case at the time, under the anglers surveyed, it actually rarely applies to much modern fishing.

Most modern rods will cast a whole line of the designated rating without any problems at all. This is more than three times the rating!!!!  Remember, the rating is for thirty feet, and a whole line is ninety feet.

Why this is so, is rather difficult to determine. It has a lot to do with the obsession many have with distance, and the often voiced wish to be able to cast a "whole line". The plain fact that this is a silly thing to do, is usually ignored, and the rod manufacturers try to ensure that such a thing is nevertheless possible with their rods. This results in rods which are very much more powerful than they need to be.

If you wish to obtain distance, then a DT line is a very poor choice. The only reasonable choice for distance casting is a shooting head, which is exactly matched to the rod, and your particular preferences.

WF lines are in my opinion just lousy shooting heads. Why compromise with a WF when you can have a good shooting head?

If you put a #6 line on a #8/9 rod, you will be able to cast it, but the rod will not flex much, will hardly load at all at close range, ( less line = less weight outside the tip)and you will require very precise timing to get a reasonable cast. The faster a rod, the more difficult ( and tiring),it is to cast with it. This also depends a great deal on the skill of the caster. A very skilful caster can cast even an underlined rod. Indeed, competition casters purposely use very fast underlined rods to be able to obtain more distance, by using various tricks. These are not usually appropriate for "normal" fishing.

The action of the rod is influenced very considerably by the weight it casts. You can cast ANY line ( or at least a part of it),with ANY rod, but the results may not be to your liking. The casting style and techniques used, also affect the way a rod behaves.

Most modern rods used for "normal" fishing ( i.e. NOT distance casting), benefit from being over-lined. That is to say, they cast better when a line at least one rating higher than the advised rating is used. Sometimes even two ratings higher. This depends on how much line you habitually use. The actual weight of the line is important, not its rating, or its length.  The
optimum line for a rod, is a matched shooting head. Where both length and weight are optimised.

This has considerable repercussions for normal fishing.  If you use a #6 "rated" rod, at close range, ( small streams etc), with a #6 line then it will not perform very well, as there is simply not enough weight outside the tip to load it.  If you then "over-line" it, with say a #8 line, then it will will once again work much better at close range, but your presentation ( due to the heavy line) will be awful.  If you try to cast sixty or seventy feet with a #8 line on a #6 rod, you will likely overload and damage the rod. In which case, you would be better off using the #6 originally recommended, or better still, a matched shooting head.

Basically, one has to decide what one wishes to achieve, and set up one?s kit accordingly.

Not only is the modern trend towards fast rods, but also towards more "powerful" rods.  Many  #4 rated rods nowadays are just as powerful as the #6 weights previously were.  A rod of course, has no "power" at all, this is provided by the caster. The faster and more powerfully built a rod is, then the more work the caster has to do, and the more skill he needs,  in order to obtain reasonable results.

Beyond a certain point, even the most powerful caster starts having severe problems. Much over nine feet in length, and much over a #12 full line, are simply too much for most casters with a single handed rod.

My own approach to this, is to use part lines ( usually, but not always, matched shooting heads),carefully matched to every rod I use, for the particular purpose I have in mind.  I use a fairly fast #3 weight rod for stream fishing, and "slow it down" a lot by using a #4 silk line on it. I also have a range of "part lines", matched to the rod, for various purposes.

My main aim here is to achieve delicate and accurate presentation at close range. If required, I can however use a short matched #6 shooting head on this rod, and cast a weighted woolly bugger, if I so wish.

A "matched" shooting head, is a piece of line, ( usually the forward taper of a standrd DT line), which has the best possible weight for the rod. The length is variable, within certain limits.

One may also use half, or other part lines without "matching" them at all. These are not "shooting heads", just part lines, which may be suitable for some particular purpose.

For "Medium to heavy" fishing, I use a medium  fast #7 ( self built, as are practically all my rods),  and use the appropriate shooting heads for whatever I wish to do. This rod will cast a ~30 foot #12 head, or a full #6 DT, without any problems. This carries any fly I care to use, for a whole range of things. Including saltwater, and pike fishing. 

I do this also because I do not like casting a very heavy rod ( like a #9 or #10), it just tires me out, and takes away much of the enjoyment. Such a rod would of course cast further, with the appropriate lines, but I don?t want the excessive work involved simply in order to gain a few yards. My rig casts ninety feet with ease, and I have hit very considerably greater distances
using a bit of "oomph". However,  I go fishing to enjoy myself, and to catch fish,  not to use "oomph". Occasionally, I may feel the need to "blast one out", but this is actually fairly rare under normal circumstances.

Yesterday morning, using this rig at a demo, I cast 168 feet, ( measured!!!), without any particularly major exertion.  I am a pretty good caster, but by no means the best, there are people who could cast this rig a lot further.

The actual weight of a line is its rating ( which is defined as a certain number of grains, for the first thirty feet), and its length. A shorter line, of the same rating weighs less. 90 feet of #6 line weighs at least three times as much as 30 feet of #6 line. ( Quite a bit more actually, as the line belly is heavier than the tapered ends).

We must suit our line to our fishing, and then choose the appropriate rod. The line is chosen to suit the flies, and other circumstances. Everything else follows on automatically.

So, we basically come down to the same old questions. What do I want to fish for? Where? Under what circumstances? And how?

Until you know the answers to these questions, you can not set up your kit properly.

There is no such thing as an "all-round" fly-rod. Despite the hype that is continually propagated all over the place. Any given fly-rod will be most suitable for one particular application. Using the appropriate  matched lines will extend its range, possibly quite widely, ( see the #7 above),  to other applications, but this has its limits.

Most people use rods that are far to heavy for their intended purpose, with lines that do not match, and consequently get poor results. Quite irrespective of whether they can cast or not, ( although they usually can not cast very well, as if they could, they would not have the problems to start with).

All the observations above apply to DT lines, or parts thereof ( i.e. "shooting heads").  WF lines are in my opinion, a total waste of time and money, and I would not give them house room.

At one time, rods with a specific action were chosen for specific reasons. Due to technological advances, these reasons no longer carry the same weight, but they apply nevertheless.  Many people choose a rod because it "feels good", ( or any number of other quite arbitrary and subjective reasons), without regard to the purpose for which they intend to use it. This is not a good way to go about it, and will invariably result in disappointment.

Broadly speaking, wet-fly rods were slow to medium actioned. Nymph rods medium to fast, and dry fly rods fast.  A slow actioned rod ( the terms "slow" and "fast" mean the time it takes for the rod to return to its normal position when flexed, as well as where they flex), will cast wider loops more easily, and because the cast itself is slower, water will not be flicked off the flies, which keeps them wet, and ensures a "good entry".

Fast rods will cast tighter loops, the fly travels very fast, and water is flicked off in the process, helping to keep it floating. Fast rods also cast further, as more line speed is generated, and the tight loops have less air resistance than wide ones. They also cast more accurately, and will "cut the wind" better,  for the same reasons

One may ignore these things if one wishes, as modern floatants, and weighted flies, obviate the necessity for choosing the right rod action. The weighted ( or otherwise treated) fly will sink no matter how fast you cast it, and the floating fly will also float no matter how slowly you cast it. Nevertheless, choosing a rod to suit your method will still be better than choosing an action you think "feels good", and ignoring all other factors.

Here are a few questions which should help you decide what to choose.

What do I want to fish for?  ( Trout, or similar, pike, etc etc)

Where? ( Stream, river, lake, ocean)

Under what circumstances? ( Is it windy? How far away are the fish?)

What flies do I wish to use? ( What size?)

Assume the answers to the above were;  Trout, Stream, no and twenty feet,
from size 18 to 10.

Then I would say, I need a #4 weight line to present flies up to size ten. I want a delicate and accurate presentation, so would go for the lightest rod I can find which will cast a #4 wt line at short distances. I would choose a fastish #3 wt rod. ( All rods should be cast before buying, ratings are basically meaningless, as we have seen). I would choose a silk line, because this gives the best presentation. If cost is a major factor, then half  a plastic #4 wt DT. I would choose the longest rod I could comfortably use under the circumstances, ( I use a nine footer), on heavily overgrown streams, I might even go down to a six footer.  If I have to fish heavily overgrown areas with my nine footer ( it is a four piece rod), I simply remove the butt, and use the top sections. I use the lightest possible reel
with this rig. Maximum fifty yards of backing. No drags etc etc, as they are superfluous. In a small stream, trout rarely have the opportunity to go far in any case. This rig is a delight to use, light, easy and delicate. If I wish too, I can use a #6 shooting head on this rig, to cast even large weighted woolly buggers, or ,maybe a weighetd nymph etc etc.

Assume the answers to the above were; Trout, lake, yes and up to 100 feet, from size ten to size six weighted longshanks.

Then I would say; I need at least a #8 line to carry flies of this size, especially into the wind. Presentation is not a major issue, and I would therefore choose a rod which will cast a matched #10 shooting head with ease. I would go for a nine foot six, ( or maybe a ten footer, if reach was required, over vegetation etc), #7 or #8 weight rod with a fast action. Such rods will also cast a short #12 head if desired ( see #7 above), and also a full #6 DT. Thus giving an excellent rod for the main purpose, and still having a wide range of possibilities. I would have at least 150 feet of shooting backing, and 100 yards of "normal" backing on the lightest reel I could find. No drags, etc, ( although many use drags for seatrout fishing, as they make long powerful runs). This rig is still relatively easy to use,
although of course double-hauling must be learned. One may fish all day without over-exertion.

[Traditionalist]

Assume the answers to the above were; Seatrout, Ocean, yes, sometimes a long way away!, from size ten to size 1/0 weighted flies.

Then I would go for a #8 fast action rod, up to ten feet long ( reach over waves! Line control !), and a #12 shooting head matched to this.I would have at least 150 feet of shooting backing, and 100 yards of "normal" backing on the lightest reel I could find. No drags, etc, ( although many use drags for seatrout fishing, as the fish  make long powerful runs, and in the ocean, there is rarely anything to stop or turn them).

Assume the answers were; Pike, lake, up to twenty yards away ( boat! Float tube etc), from size 6 LS to size 6/0 weighted flies, or bulky poppers.

Minimum #12 line required. Powerful rod required, as pike make very strong ( but not sustained) runs, and one may wish to keep them out of weeds, rushes etc. One must also be able to move the dead weight of the fish in water! Perhapss against a strong current, ( river ocean etc) I would use the same setup as described for seatrout in the ocean, but in many cases might be undergunned, and require a great deal more skill to land a fish. Many people use #10 weight rods for such pike fishing. I prefer the lighter gear, even though it has certain limitations. ( The same applies to cod, pollack etc)

Assume the answers were; Trout and similar, river, yes up to forty feet, weighted nymphs etc up to size 10 LS.

Then I would need at least a #5 or #6 line to carry such flies. I would still want accurate presentation, and would choose a medium fast #5 weight, nine feet six inches long. with the lightest possible reel etc etc.

And so it goes on.   Most rod and line combinations are compromises of some sort, and it invariably turns out that they are worse than useless for many things. Matched gear is always the bees knees. Simply changing lines can bring almost magical results in many cases.

In time, ( and probably after spending a lot of money!), many people come to realise that their gear is inappropriate, for one reason or another. A little thought beforehand would save all this.

I hope this helps. Unfortunately, there are so many possibilities and variables, that is is well nigh impossible to give definitive answers to
such questions, merely pointers and tips. Most people who come to me for lessons etc, get kitted out with exactly the right gear to start with, and this is a simple matter, in person, and with a range of gear available.

Your, ( and anybody else?s ) best bet, is to take a lesson from a good professional, hope he knows his stuff, and take his advice. He will know ( or should) which is the best tackle for your intended purpose. The final trick, is finding tackle which is not only ideally suited to the purpose, but also "feels good", and suits any other criteria you may have, such as "looks", "price", etc etc.

Unfortunately, most people do not grasp the basics of fly-casting or gear matching from the start. Often as a result of misinformation.

In order to be succesful you must match your gear to the task at hand.  The only way to do this, is to decide what you are going to fish for, where you are going to do it, under what circumstances, and WITH WHICH FLIES!!!!!

Once you know which flies ( in terms of size, weight etc), you need, then you know what size line you need to carry them.  Once you know which line you need to carry them, you can choose a rod to suit the line.

You may also use different lines on the same rod to suit particular purposes, quite irrespective of what is marked on the butt.

This is what matching, or "balancing" gear means.

It does not mean looking for tasteful colour combinations, or "balancing" rods at some mythical point somewhere above the butt, or buying a "#6 wt"  reel or a "#6 wt rod"( there is no such animal in either case).  The numbers on rods,  such as "#6/7", marked on the blank above the butt, are arbitrary, and only guidelines.

It is pointless buying  a rod, and then  going  looking for things to use with it. This will inevitably be unsatisfactory, irrespective of what
anybody tells you.

The ONLY fly-fishing equipment which is rated according to a standard and universal formula is the line.  This standard is known as the AFTM standard. everything else is anybody?s guess.

As a rough guide, here is a table I just made up, for matching fly-sizes to lines;

The larger the number ( up to size 1/0) the smaller the hook. Above 1/0 the larger the number, the larger the hook.

Line Weight   Fly size
3                    28 -12
4                    up to 10
5                    up to 8
6                    up to 6
7                    up to 4
8                    12 - 1/0
9                    up to 2/0
10                  up to 3/0
11                  up to 4/0
12                  up to 6/0

There is a lot of overlap, and heavy ( weighted) or bulky flies will require a heavier line than indicated in the table. There is a lot of nonsense talked about "weightless" flies etc. Here again, there is no such animal. The larger the fly the heavier it is. Bulky flies also have more air resistance and need heavier lines to carry them.

Double hauling will increase the weight of fly which can be carried, as it generates more line speed.  A shooting head will carry the most weight in any given range.

This is the AFTM line rating table.  It is the only set of standards in existence for fly-fishing tackle. There are no others. The figures given are for the first thirty feet of a line, including the taper, but excluding the level tip, ( if present).

AFTM In grains In grams  In ounces
3   100 +/- 6      6.48  0.228
4   120 +/- 6      7.78  0.274
5   140 +/- 6      9.07  0.32
6   160 +/- 8     10.42  0.366
7   185 +/- 8     11.99  0.422
8   210 +/- 8     13.61  0.48
9   240 +/- 10    15.55  0.55
10  280 +/- 10    18.14  0.64
11  330 +/- 12    21.38  0.75
12  380 +/- 12    24.62  0.86

It will be seen that 30 feet of #12 line weighs 0.86 ounces. (Most of my #12 heads weigh a full ounce, as they are slightly longer than thirty feet). Once again, as a rough guide, most #6 rated rods, will cast a full ounce without difficulty.

A one ounce weight will carry a relatively heavy fly a long way.

At the other end of the scale, it will also be seen that 30 feet of #3 line only weighs 0 .22 ounces. There is no way this line will carry a heavy fly anywhere at all. Especially at close range It will even be difficult casting relatively small bushy dry flies. Casting leaders with split shot, indicators or similar,  with such a rig is well nigh impossible. One can only "lob" such things at best.

The rod one uses must only be capable of casting the appropriate line. Although some other characteristics may also be desirable Once you have decided what weight of line you require, you can then start making other choices, based on what type of fishing you want to do.

Standard double taper fly-lines are ninety feet long. They are tapered at both ends ( hence the name), and have a long heavy belly.  For delicate presentation, the lightest possible line, commensurate with the weight of fly in use should be used.

There is no law which says you have to use ninety feet of line of course. For maximum distance, or carrying capacity, a shooting head is best. This is, as already stated, a piece of line ( the front end of a DT) about thirty feet long. Thirty feet, because most casters have no trouble aerialising and controlling this length of line.

As most rods are designed to cast a full line, and the AFTM rating is only for thirty feet, most rods will cast thirty feet of much heavier line than they are rated for.

You may now make further choices. Do you wish to fish at distance? Or with very heavy flies?  In the wind? Then you must choose a fast rod, which will cast a short heavy head.  For instance a #7 or #8 weighted rod, matched to the appropriate length of #12 line.

Do you wish to fish at close range with small flies? Then choose a #3 rated rod, matched with a #4 DT.

The possibilities are endless. If you consider exactly what you wish to do beforehand, use the figures provided, and a little thought, you will get very close to the perfect rig for your particular purpose. It will only be suitable for that particular purpose of course, and if you want to use the gear for something else, then you must modify the line, and if the rod will not support that, then you need another rod.

Personally I cover practically all my fly fishing with two rods. A fast #3 wt, and a fast #7 wt.  I use a whole range of lines on these, and I can cast any fly I care to use, from a delicate midge presentation at short range, to belting out a 6/0 pike lure, under any circumstances which may obtain. All by matching the appropriate line. Of course for some fishing I use other rods.I have a large number of rods, but I rarely use most of them. There is just no need. Two good suitable rods, and a range of lines, suffice for most things.

Rod actions, and various other things may also be considered. 

TL
MC

[haresear]

I agree with much of what you say Mike, but can't agree on the WF issue. You say you wouldn't "give one house room".
I know what you are saying about them being basically a less efficient shooting head, but for me I would rather handle the running line on a WF than that on a shooting head. It is less likely to tangle generally and far less prone to being blown about in a high wind. I take it you use stripping baskets as a matter of course?

For distance, "heads" are certainly the tool to use, but for most of my trout fishing a WF reaches the distances I need. Indeed I have sometimes used a DT on lochs in a very high wind, just to minimise the loose line being blown about too much. I now use the Mastery XXD for most long casting scenarios.

Alex 

[Traditionalist]

I agree with much of what you say Mike, but can't agree on the WF issue. You say you wouldn't "give one house room".
I know what you are saying about them being basically a less efficient shooting head, but for me I would rather handle the running line on a WF than that on a shooting head. It is less likely to tangle generally and far less prone to being blown about in a high wind. I take it you use stripping baskets as a matter of course?

For distance, "heads" are certainly the tool to use, but for most of my trout fishing a WF reaches the distances I need. Indeed I have sometimes used a DT on lochs in a very high wind, just to minimise the loose line being blown about too much. I now use the Mastery XXD for most long casting scenarios.

Alex 

Not only are they less efficient, they are a great deal more expensive, and they wear out quickly.  I use bricklayer?s twine as shooting line. Handles great, and costs nowt!

I don?t normally use a stripping basket. Except in the salt.

TL
MC

[haresear]

I use bricklayer?s twine as shooting line. Handles great, and costs nowt!

Another new one on me. I'll check it out.
If you don't use a basket, how do you manage your loose shooting line Mike?
Do you coil it or drop it?

Alex

[Traditionalist]

I use bricklayer?s twine as shooting line. Handles great, and costs nowt!

Another new one on me. I'll check it out.
If you don't use a basket, how do you manage your loose shooting line Mike?
Do you coil it or drop it?

Alex

Depends where I am fishing. I usually drop it. Bricklayers twine is also indestructible. You can trample on it all you like, and it wont normally be damaged. Shoots like a dream as well.

TL
MC

[Wildfisher]

All fascinating stuff. Great info.

[haresear]

The twine certainly sounds worth trying. I have used Amnesia in the past (too slippery for east retrieval/handling) and hollow braid (too rough and doesnt shoot very well).

For all you weegies (Glasgow) men out there, you know where to get the stuff eh?
Bill's Tool Store is bound to have it cheap.

Alex

[Traditionalist]

The twine certainly sounds worth trying. I have used Amnesia in the past (too slippery for east retrieval/handling) and hollow braid (too rough and doesnt shoot very well).

For all you weegies (Glasgow) men out there, you know where to get the stuff eh?
Bill's Tool Store is bound to have it cheap.

Alex

You need bricklayers polyethylene twine. I use the 1,5mm.  It is a type of braid, but much easier to handle. I get mine at the local DIY market. Comes on 100 meter spools usually, but I have seen larger ones as well.  Most of the people I have shown it to, including the salmon men now use it more or less exclusively, as do a lot of saltwater men.

TL
MC

[haresear]

I've just been Googling for some bricklayers twine. I'm not coming up with much. Just nylon.
Is this the stuff Mike?  http://www.pitchcare.com/shop/product.php?id=3187&option_id=4067

(I  :lol:don't expect I'll need that much :lol:)

Alex