Well more 3 and 4... i'm looking for a CHEAP light rod to fish the canal with. The choice has been narrowed down to what you are all thinking, the mighty fladen vantage, i don't actually like it but at the price i'm more than willing to put up with it for my coarse fishing :)
Now the question is targetted at those of you that use light rods. Do i get the #3 or the #4? I was thinking the 3 for pure canal use but if i got the 4 it would be that bit more useable on a river. Does anyone use a #3 a lot on decent sized water? Heck, i could just buy both :lol:
Had a dam fun hour tonight targetting some big risers, the 5wt is just too heavy for shallowish, completely still water though. Think i spooked everything even with a massive leader. I need to be successful with this, going to persevere over winter, it's really fun!!!
What sort of fish are you targetting Scotty? Not that I'm offering advice - just interested in the big rises.
Aye, not pike! I don't like pike, they're scary, they've got big teeth :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm not 100% sure on what's in there but i do know there is roach, rudd, bream and carp. BIG carp! But I have been reliably informed that some of the roach are monsters. I was thinking a 3wt would be ideal for the canal but a four would let me use it a bit more elsewhere...
The 5wt is definitely too heavy.
A piccie from the summer:
(http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo290/scottfishing/P1000253.jpg)
It will be roach Scott. There are rudd too. I caught one once :)
The canal roach are not monsters, that's bull. There are plenty about the 12oz mark and the area near Auchinstarry is as good as any. I once fished a match there for Glasgow and the West of Scotland CFA and it was won with about 25lb of roach, which is a fine catch.
I've had a few on fly, but never really targetted them. I'll bet a sunk body like a CDC emerger would be the job.
I'd go for a 4 weight rod too. We get a lot of wind in Scotland and you can always use it on the river as well. I rarely go above a 4 weight rod on rivers, but often use a 5 line with it.
I can lend you a Sage Launch #3 if you want to try it?
Alex
Alex that would be great, just to have a feel for a feather weight bit of kit :lol:
It's the monklands canal i was talking about, not the forth and clyde, so let me believe about the big roach!! I have no idea what the fish were taking tonight though. Tried a griffiths gnat with no joy, i think the line was my main problem though. I was covering rises perfectly and nothing!
By the sounds of this i should likely go for a 4 weight. More functional it seems. Reckon a 4 weight is light enough for spooky fish in not a lot of water, dead still water?
Roach are real barometers of technique and presentation. That's true for bait fishing and I'm sure they will be just as difficult on fly.
They are not particularly surface orientated, unlike rudd, so you should pick your time carefully. Light wind at dusk is perfect. Today was the day :)
Remind me about the Sage (I'm like a Shakespeare line, no memory) and I'll get it to you.
Alex
Quote from: bordertroot on November 09, 2009, 01:48:47 AM
Thought that was the Snowbee :? :?
Bob
Same animal Bob. the tapers are different, but the same materials.
Alex
Roach at this time of year sounds like a lot of fun - I see huge shoals of roach at my stretch of the forth n clyde - I know one guy on this forum targets them with dries during summer - looking forward to hearing how you get on :D
Aye Scott 3weight is yer man for roach on the dries for the canal.I'm sure he'll chip in soon!
I though it would be more of a summer pursuit though.
cheers
Paul
Well Paul, i was bored and thought i'd give it a bash! I'm also intrigued by the difficult casting, difficult fish and the fact it's just doon the road :lol:
Alex - will pm you fri or sat with a reminder! I should be there on sunday if i'm fit to drive.
Alistair - i shall keep you posted! I always said i'd do it in the summer but never did, i'll just have to persevere! Nymphs, dries, something must work eventually! You going to casting club on sunday? Would have been good to meet you!
Quote from: bordertroot on November 09, 2009, 01:48:47 AM
Thought that was the Snowbee :? :?
As Alex said they are the same thing (or at least were). Snowbee, Barrio, Pirate, and a few more are all Shakespeare lines. Great lines for the money but they all suffer from sinking tips to a greater or lesser extent. Some say it?s water ingress but I don?t believe that?s the only reason. Some of them are quite fine at the tip; Barrio lines, for instance, are very fine. This may match the tip diameter closer to the leader butt diameter in theory allowing better presentation, but the coating thickness is less and I think this simply makes them less buoyant. I bought a SA Mastery this spring 3 x the price and with a thicker tip. It does not sink. It presents perfectly well; the coating is far more slick and it shoots better too.
Quote from: admin on November 09, 2009, 04:07:51 PM
they all suffer from sinking tips to a greater or lesser extent.
That's a general problem I find with fly lines. The only real excetion I own is a Cortland dyna-tip which at list price is ridiculous. However I often put Gink on the tip of other lines - whenever I put it on my fly I just wipe my fingers on the tip of the line. It works just fine.
Was out tonight again, still no luck but i'm getting closer. Had a 4wt line out tonight, definite improvement, still think it might be too heavy though. The fish were free rising all over the place again but i couldn't tempt them with anything. I need smaller flies, thinner tipper, lighter line and someone who knows what they're feeding on! :D
Any ideas people?
Wandered up to the Forth & Clyde yesterday, the surface was like a mirror. I spotted more fish rising that I could have possibly expected. The light was starting to fade so I couldn't identify the fish, (it was about 3.30ish), but they didn't seem to be moving far
Quote from: scotty9 on November 09, 2009, 07:19:28 PM
Was out tonight again, still no luck but i'm getting closer. Had a 4wt line out tonight, definite improvement, still think it might be too heavy though. The fish were free rising all over the place again but i couldn't tempt them with anything. I need smaller flies, thinner tipper, lighter line and someone who knows what they're feeding on! :D
Any ideas people?
It has to be midge Scott. I'd try something tiny and black like a 22 or a 20
Alex
Ginked black spider? Tiny black gnat? Right i'm either going to have to learn to tie very fast or try and beg for a flies for forum donation :lol:
Small black buzzer fished just under the surface? Suspender buzzer? I've been googling midge fishing, these must be worth a shot, can't get out tomorrow though :(
When I seen the fish rising, I couldn't see any flies at all on the water, (and the water was very, very calm). As it was freezing, I assumed that they were rising to something in the surface layer, or very close below the surface. Bit I could be wrong, (and usually am :lol:)
My guess is hatching midge guys.
I would use a visible dry on the point, with a tiny black spider and maybe a tiny F fly on droppers. Keep your eye on the visible dry which is there just as a marker and if there is a dimple where you think your wee flies are, hit it. The spider can be fished sub surface too. That's how i would approach it anyway.
Alex
I shall give it a shot, likely on wednesday! Here's hoping i can tempt them, got a few tiny f flies so hopefully they'll do the trick.
Are you sure the roach are feeding on the top and not just breaking the surface film with their backs whilst sitting high in the water? I've been fooled dozens of times by this!
I would definately choose the #3, even this seems heavy at times for roach and rudd because they demand the most delicate presentation possible. I use an 8'6 #3 for my river fishing and so far havent had any real problems with the wind, theres always the double haul if it gets bad.
Im assuming you have a #5 rod from your post so it makes more sense to me to go lighter, the difference between a 4 and 5 line wont give THAT much of an edge, not as much as going lighter again anyway.
I think the most important thing to consider though is the temperature, I have only ever had roach on dries on baking hot days mid summer, fly patterns dont seem that important, as long as its small enough to fit in their mouths. I tend to find shoals that are close to the margins and watch for a while to make sure the fish are definately feeding before I cast and spook the shoal. Spooking one fish is bad enough in trout fishing but spooking 50 or so roach is murder!
I've only ever caught the odd roach on nymphs but at this time of year it would be my first line of attack.
Good luck with them, most frustrating fish I have ever went for!
Scott
Oh aye, forgot to say, tippet diameter, most coarse fishermen use between 1 and 1.5lb breaking strain hooklinks for roach for good reason, they are incredibly shy. Use the lightest, thinnest tippet material you can find.
I think you're right Scott. I certainly only saw one fish out the water all night. Hopefully with all these master tactics in mind i'll catch one tomorrow! I really want to tempt them at the surface.... didn't have any luck with nymphs last time.
Quote from: scotty9 on November 10, 2009, 09:16:01 PM
I think you're right Scott. I certainly only saw one fish out the water all night. Hopefully with all these master tactics in mind i'll catch one tomorrow! I really want to tempt them at the surface.... didn't have any luck with nymphs last time.
Personally I'd stick with bluebottle pupae (or larvae as a second choice). :)
Alex
Quote from: haresear on November 10, 2009, 10:12:23 PM
Personally I'd stick with bluebottle pupae (or larvae as a second choice). :)
Alex
I'm not like that, i'm pure :lol: :lol: :lol:
One of these wee buggers better get caught tomorrow! I need to get some tiny flies though, was looking on theessentialfly, some of these might do the trick: http://www.theessentialfly.com/micro-dry-flies/EF-3850-22.html might be cheap and cheerful but they're going in the smelly canal :lol: And i'm planning going to the fly tying on thursday, maybe i'll learn how to tie one!
if your going down at the weekend I'll give you some small flies. Just let me know when your going down I usually tke the dog down there at the weekend
bibio - that would be great :D Say saturday, will send you a pm on friday once the weather forecast is a bit nearer :lol:
Was out again today, cold cold east wind. Saw one fish and left soon after that, i couldn't bear the cold!