Novice needs help

[birds_nest]

Many thanks for all the advice, much appreciated.

[desmondo]

Hi if I am fishing dries and there is only a light wind I fish 3 but if wind picks up it is down to 2 to avoid tangles. With wets/nympths almost always 2 but there is no proper reason it is just what I am comfortable with. The solution for you is trial things and find out for yourself. Also when my leader goes over 15' I tend to get tangles regardless of wind which is no doubt my poor casting so I normally fish around 12' and I do catch enough fish.
Had a laugh the other week fishing a tiger buzzer on NZ style dropper below a dry, there was a cracking hit thrashing about then it was off, I assumed it had snapped leader or a poorly tied knot to fly. When I reeled in and examined there was no dropper at all connected to the dry. My dry was on a barbless hook so I assume that the dropper ran round the hook and straight off the hook during the struggle, not sure how to overcome that one?
Enjoy experimenting.

[corsican dave]

I assume that the dropper ran round the hook and straight off the hook during the struggle, not sure how to overcome that one?

drop of glue on the knot? you'll note i'm not a purist.... :

[past caring]

I fish 'NZ' style plenty, but have never seen the advantage in tying the tippet which is going to hold my nymph directly to the hook of the dry. What you're aiming for is the dry acting as an indicator for the nymph and maybe the dry taking a fish itself. The disadvantages of tying directly to the hook of the dry are a) it's more fiddly to tie the knot, b) the knot can slip off if you're using barbless hooks, c) the tippet tied to the hook of the dry can prevent proper hook ups if you get a take to the dry and d) if you decide to switch to dry only you're almost certainly going to have to tie on a new tippet. All of this can be avoided by tying on a 'normal' dropper and attaching the dry to this. So that's what I do.

[haresear]

I don't find tying a lnot to the bend of the fly any more fiddly than on to the eye

if you decide to switch to dry only you're almost certainly going to have to tie on a new tippet.

Not if you use a uni-knot . I simply open up the knot (it is a form of slip knot), take the nymph and its length of mono off  and keep it handy to be looped back on the bend of the dry when required. It saves time and because it is less bother than tying a new rig, I am more likely to change back to NZ style when required rather than soldiering on with the dry when it isn't really working.

I do however agree that the nymph tied off the bend of the dry can interfere with hooking fish that take the dry. I have also had the dropper slip off the bend when casting using barbless hooks.

Alex

[past caring]

Alex - I didn't explain myself properly. I don't know/use the uni knot so will take your word for it. What I was trying to get at is that if I'm fishing NZ style I will probably set up with a 9' tapered leader with about 4 - 4 1/2' of tippet on the end. The dropper for the dry will be somewhere between 1 and 1 1/2' down the tippet. If I decide to switch to dry only, I can just nip the flies off and stick the dry on the end (leaving the dropper with nothing attached makes no odds for presentation and I can switch back again) - but if I'd tied the nymph tippet to the hook of the dry, I'd only a 1 - 1 1/2' of tippet. This would be too short - I want a minimum of 3' tippet between the end of the leader and the dry.

But the uni knot sounds useful - must learn it/give it a go!

[haresear]

Alex - I didn't explain myself properly. I don't know/use the uni knot so will take your word for it. What I was trying to get at is that if I'm fishing NZ style I will probably set up with a 9' tapered leader with about 4 - 4 1/2' of tippet on the end. The dropper for the dry will be somewhere between 1 and 1 1/2' down the tippet. If I decide to switch to dry only, I can just nip the flies off and stick the dry on the end (leaving the dropper with nothing attached makes no odds for presentation and I can switch back again) - but if I'd tied the nymph tippet to the hook of the dry, I'd only a 1 - 1 1/2' of tippet. This would be too short - I want a minimum of 3' tippet between the end of the leader and the dry.

But the uni knot sounds useful - must learn it/give it a go!

Yes, that's what i thought you meant

This is really only an issue if you are chopping and changing...but is it not difficult to tie the dry back on to the shortened dropper if you want to revert to NZ nymph and dry combo? I do tend to use quite short droppers, so maybe this isn't an issue if you are using a long dropper to start with.

Like I said, I do think the "off the" bend style can lead to missed takes, so I can understand why you favour the "proper loch style dropper". There is another way that I have tried occasionally. It is known as "two in the eye" (another NZ idea) and just as it sounds both lengths of mono are tied to the eye of the dry.  I'm not sure that there are any real advantages to that however :?

Alex

[past caring]

You're right - it is a pain if you're chopping and changing and even with a longer dropper (which tends to increase the chances of tangles) you're eventually going to have to stick an entirely new dropper on.

The other alternative would be a micro ring with both the dropper and tippet attached - when the dropper gets too small, just tie on a new one. I used to do this - and I'm not really sure why I stopped as I never had a problem with it.

[Wildfisher]

The other alternative would be a micro ring with both the dropper and tippet attached - when the dropper gets too small, just tie on a new one. I used to do this - and I'm not really sure why I stopped as I never had a problem with it.

I sometimes do that. It works perfectly well and is just as reliable as a water knot.

[haresear]

I used to do this - and I'm not really sure why I stopped as I never had a problem with it.

:lol:

I have to re-learn stuff all the time because I forget.

The micro ring isn't a bad idea. I might try that myself when using fair sized dries like size 12 elk hair caddis or the like - if I remember

Alex