I recently read a post on the Fly Forums expressing concern over a Paul Proctor article about the Annan. These guys were worried about the river receiving too much attention and getting a hammering on the back on of it. Paul Proctor does this a lot, his articles seem to be mainly centred around encouraging folk to head for rivers like the Don, Deveron, Annan etc etc.
This has been a worry for me with Fish Wild, although we tend only to cover the more known waters or extremely remote places that are never going to be in any danger in a, dare I say, lazy society. That said I still wonder if we should be doing it and that's just a small online magazine, not a mass circulation publication like Trout and Salmon.
As Bob Wyatt once wrote, a few magazine articles and next thing you know your favourite fishing hole is a "destination".
What are your views on this?
This is something I worry about too. There are a few articles on fish wild that recount great fishing but don't reveal the loch (although it might be deduced) and I don't mind that at all. A major magazine would find it more difficult to do that. T&S done an article on Applecross, which I was planning to visit this summer now I'm worried I will get there and find it a wee bit more busier than normal. Although they kept the location of the "best loch" secret. You are right about the lazy public, long may the carpark by the 'bow hole be an adventure for them.
I have to agree with Allan. Most of the places the members here fish would only see a handful of other fishermen. If it isn't easy to get to then they are reasonably safe from the attentions of the 'bad' anglers. Any rivers and lochs that are easy to get to have already been hit and if they aren't getting the size of fish they are used to they generally move on somewhere else.
If anyone has a favourite spot that fishes well, is easy to get to, and within the scope of anyone to fish it, then keep it to yourself. There are more places that lie outside those parameters that everyone knows and can write about. The fishing element that we are talking about probably wouldn't even read all the way through an article where the biggest fish is six inches never mind six pounds, especially when they read about the effort to get there. :)
I generally don't think its a big deal writing about locations, especially on rivers. I think the range of skills required to fish a river effectively discount a fair amount of anglers but the most important factor "local knowlege" is not gleaned from reading an article in a magazine. Granted you might hit it lucky with fish rising everywhere to the pattern that was "hot" in the article but the chances are it will not be like that at all - the water will be at a different height, there won't be a hatch of fly or it will be to a different one, or maybe the weather will just be different! Then there is the location, most of the anglers in this country live in the south and few are willing to travel to fish some of the remoter locations. I've read many times on the other forum how its easier and cheaper to jump on a plane to Sloviakia than travel to Scotland to fish for grayling.
The Clyde got a good write up in FFFT, its a hard fished river by people who really know what thery are doing, it doesn't give up its fish easily. I doubt that the guys on the Clyde will notice any extra fishing pressure.
Norm
To be honest I quite like to share an insight onto a water, half of the achievement for me is finding and being successful on new waters anyway. I also think there are so many waters out there for Wild Anglers who IMHO are unlikely to hammer any water. The ethos of the wild angler is just different and I know there's a few idiots but they will always be with us. I practice catch and release but I trust most of my fellow Anglers to act with prudence. Most of the magazines are targeted heavily in favour of the commercial Rainbow waters some restraint in those is wise; however Fish Wild is mainly of interest to the Wild Angler and therefore less likely to attract the wrong element. A few location names in fish wild is a risk we take for opening up the possibilities to other anglers of our fantastic side of the sport.
Sandy B.O.
Not sure rivers are put at too much risk but there is a real risk to small wild lochs.
It's the small gems that are at risk - especially on the mainland. On Shetland and Orkney they go out of their way to publicise their best lochs - it's virtually all fly-fishing there anyway.
However, I think half a dozen members of the swimfeeder crew could clean out a wee loch in a weekend and I've seen the signs in Assynt, Wester Ross and Lewis in fairly remote lochs. The one big loch I bother about is Fionn in Sutherland as I've heard a number of reports of it being pounded.
I've sometimes been surprised just how far from the road the angling idiots get :shock: - but in general I'd agree that there are enough Lochs and Rivers in Scotland (many of them being pretty remote) to take the pressure of the wandering spotlight of publicity. I do agree with Malcolm/fishtales though that there are certain, vungerable waters that would be at particular risk by widely publicising them and these deserve a more circumspect approach. 8)
I personally really enjoy hearing about new waters and getting tips through various sources. But, like most folk I suspect, these usually get filed away and rarely do I go charging off there the next available minute.
Another aspect, apart from stocks, is relations with locals and landowners: A lovely scattered hill loch with a long, hard approach that I fished last year has lost it's boat, destroyed by idiots. The land owners are approachable folk, don't overcharge and allow easy access (yes, this is in Scotland! :lol:) but more such incidents and the story could dramatically alter.
Ian
Dilemmas eh! For me the attraction of this site is to whet the appetite for wild fishing when I'm able to, and i'm quite happy to find my own way. The beauty is there are so many variables, weather, flies, midges etc etc and perhaps more so on the rivers and burns.....
I don't want a step by step guide thanks very much.
QuoteThe one big loch I bother about is Fionn in Sutherland as I've heard a number of reports of it being pounded.
i heard about this too. I doubt its online reports that have driven the 'wrong sort' in that direction though is it?
I worry about some of the easily accessible places where at the right time of year migratory fish are very vulnerable...where even a mug like me can catch 50 fish in a day (and whilst you or i might release 48 or 49 of them others might not...). i fished a place like that late last year and i'm not going to report on it.
i had a great time though :D :D
it seems we all take reasonable precuations- we don't necessarily give OS references for the more vulnerable places. perhaps naively i also tend to believe that anything that involves a real walk will deter most, and that my reports of an amazing day when i caught a- gasp- fish that weighted over a pound (yes, it has happened) will not necessarily prompt a stampede.
but someone publishing a piece in T&S -or the times for that matter- is very different, and i am with mr wyatt on the dangers of allowing a place to become a 'destination' ...that has destroyed a few saltwater spots i used to fish (in a previous pre marriage life ) in the caribbean.
it was interesting in new zealand to be able to readily find highly detailed instructions (notably in a book by i think tony busch on the south island) to fishing spots and to visit them years after his book was first published and find them unspoilt. but then i considered that maybe i just thought they were unspoilt and in fact local or more experienced visitors might have been cursing mr busch et al for ruining those places.
Detailed written Guides and long standing reputations can cause big changes in fish numbers especially on the Lochs. However I am sure that this impact is becoming an aspect of the past. A lot of Anglers do practice restraint and even the Estates are encouraging a more realistic take limit on most waters. We will always have the Nerds who will want to wreck everything but there are some risks worth taking to ensure our aspect of fishing prospers and grows. I do subscribe to the cautious approach when talking about vulnerable waters with easy access but I think if its referring to waters that require a good bit of travel and work to get there that this in itself offers some protection against the fishmongers. I have yet to meet many of the monger type who are prepared to walk back over the hill for four miles with a big bag of fish never mind ten miles. We all have choice lochs that we share with friends on a need to know basis and that is surely one of the nice things about the facilities on this site and the PM system. Being an active member here opens up the possibilities and as most of us know once you start to be actively involved the benefits soon flow through tips given discreetly, stravaiging, and bar room banter. I must admit nowadays I would rather have a couple of good photo's of a nice fish than the specimen in my bag -afterall how many times can I eat it - but the pics I can dine on for a year! I think this is also an ever growing aspect of our sport. I think that in some publications - especially the magazines it would be nice to see people actually returning fish more often - the days of parades with a load of dead fish is really quite unacceptable. Perhaps even some Bow holes are waking up to this - instead of mass slaughter.
I think I will still share openly on the forum information for all to see with the usual slight reserve on some special places for those who sometimes have less time but have a conscientious attitude to our wild friends.
Sandy B.O.
QuoteI think places will receive more immediate attention following a article, though i would imagine it to be more short term than long term , folk will come some will be sucessful others less so and mixed views of a particular venue will filter through the angling grapevine.
I reckon a magazine article will draw an increase in angler traffic for a short period, as Col suggests. In the case of a guide book, then anglers who would be visiting a particular area anyway, will tend to focus their efforts on the likeliest sounding waters mentioned in the guide. I know I do, until I have first hand experience of the area.
The internet on the other hand, gives a free source of detailed information with minimal effort on the part of the angler and unlike a magazine, this info will sit ready to hand for any number of years, so when anyone wants to Google the name of the water concerned, the information will still be sitting there.
Some places I fish don't hold a hell of a lot of fish and I've had to fish hard and put a lot of hours in to get results. When it comes to places like this, I'll be keeping my cards closer to my chest from now on.
Alex
Also as the more realistic of us know there are few fish of monster proportions in any loch and most wild fish are good if they hit a pound. I feel that anyone visiting any water expecting to hit loads of large fish in general will be disappointed - they get big by not being caught! Dunalistair is surely an example of this - great fish but a lot of hard work and a few blanks probably involved. The main problem is that Large specimens seem to be the thing that sells magazines - Fish wild and the forum is selling a completely different concept at no charge. The fact is that when a nice big fish is caught we do not need to mention the Loch or the particular location on the river - there's plenty of home work for the true Wild Angler. As members of our fraternity we can use our discretion and share a few secrets with other members without the world having to know(PM) - its not a problem being on the internet its how you use the tool :crap.
Prime examples of our difference is where do you see articles on the highest loch trout and groups arranging stravaigs by bicycle and hiking in. In what magazine would they have articles on some serious nuts freezing their Ba's Aff at Lochindorb wi tubes and snow around! There are reports and postings from all over including different species, countries, and methods here - no problem to the neds if they can afford the fare to Canada and see Moose!
I was originally attracted to the sight by searching for wild trout info - surely the same is true of most 8) the more we can post and supply the more attractive it becomes. The back catalogue on this sight alone would keep the fishmongers going for several centuries - all that really is required is some prudent frugality to exact locations on occasion.
Sandy B.O.
Another point worth bearing in mind is only established members (>25 posts) can read the reports here. They cannot be "googled".
Now all the folks who complained about it can perhaps see the reason why! It actually takes a bit of effort to get to 25 without being "obviously at it" - patterns emerge and we are ruthless in our moderation of spam................. :D
Sandy B is right. We are driven by enthusiasm, T+S etc are driven by money. I don't believe the end result is the same as we can afford to be circumspect and they can't. We don’t compete with anyone.
I am told that when T+S sets out do an article it's all very clinical: professional photographers, tight planing etc. We don’t set out to do articles, we set out to go fishing and if an article comes out of it then it's a bonus. We don’t have to publish, we don’t have to make it "sexy" in order to persuade the punter to part with 3 quid a month!
All that said, we still have to be careful in my view. I for one keep a few lochs close to my chest and while I am very happy to tell anyone here about them privately I won’t publish the locations openly. I think that's a good compromise.
I totally agree Fred a few good secrets shared privately now and again are what we are all about. The general stuff is no problem - trust is earned on the Forum and is not assumed such as in magazines.
Sandy B.O.
OS Map 9, Cape Wrath, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 303492. OS Map 10, Strath Naver, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 758431. OS Map 11, Thurso & Dunbeath, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 993395.
Quote from: Sandison on April 04, 2008, 09:47:44 PM
OS Map 9, Cape Wrath, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 303492. OS Map 10, Strath Naver, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 758431. OS Map 11, Thurso & Dunbeath, Scale 1:50,000, Gd ref: 993395.
:D.............. love it!
………..and don't forget to pack at least 3 days sandwiches and a distress flare! :D