What flies?

[Traditionalist]

Just a couple of points there.  The only real problem I have with a lot of fly patterns, is that I simply have no idea when they might work. Carrying a big box full of such "random" patterns is pointless for me. Of course you can go on trying them until one works, but that is not as easy as it sounds and you can waste a whole day trying things that don't work.

I prefer to use a fly for which I can find a sensible reason, this makes the choice easier in the first place, and if the reason is good, then the choice often works.

Agreed that all flies are caricatures, but some caricatures are better than others.

In many cases the right movement will get a fish to take a fly it would otherwise ignore.  If you have a fly with the right movement AND the right appearance you increase your chances.  In other cases fish wont touch a fly that moves, they want it "static", but with the right appearance.  In both cases the behaviour of the fly is important, and in both cases the right appearance is also useful, but with the moving fly not so critical.

Obviously the fish take flies because they appear to be food. Something that looks like food and behaves like food will be taken.  Other things will not.  I have no idea what instinctive criteria a fish might use to determine what is edible and what is not, so I am obliged to look at things from my point of view. My fly choice is based on that.

TL
MC

[Wildfisher]

Once again I have had to remove a series of posts that served no purpose other than promote bickering and ruin the flow of a perfectly good and useful discussion.  If you don't agree with something posted by another member please do reply if you want  to, but try to keep your replies civil and to the point. If you can't do that you have the ignore option available to you; replying is not compulsory, however if you choose to reply, then replying in a civil manner is !   Sarcastic comments about other member's posts  are as bad as personal insults, have exactly the same effect, contribute nothing   and will be dealt with in the same way.

Thanks, you know it makes perfect sense.  

[Wildfisher]

If you keep a fishing diary and check the taking flies it's surprising just how many fish are taken just on a few patterns.

That's certainly the case for me, however you will only catch with  what you use therefore this could be a self fulfilling prophecy.    I am sometimes surprised when I  forget the more technical aspects and tie on a Butcher. I don't know why this is, I have known these kind flies catch fish for the past 40 years. As I said earlier, it may be something to do with over analysis.

[Wildfisher]

the only way, as with every other fly fishing thing is to fish with others and work to comparisons.

I'd be interested to learn how you go about that with just two flies? My own boxes are full of flies of various shapes and sizes that have caught me fish in the past, certainly not a random selection. I have caught a lot of fish over the past 40 years,  it therefore follows  I have a lot of flies.  :lol: I also like to carry new flies that have been suggested to me by other anglers I respect. It's also fun trying new stuff. If you don't listen you are unlikely to learn. The minute you stop learning the exercise becomes pointless to my mind.   :?

[Malcolm]

2 flies - maybe!

One of my standard emerger patterns on rivers and some lochs is a simple collar hackle around a seals fur body. Nothing more. Usually when I am using it I cut away the hackle underneath the body.

I have these in black, olive green, olive brown, orange, and a yellow green mix. 4 sizes  x 5 colours x 2 of each = 40 flies.

Same with the sparkle dun.

You can fill a box with 5 flies!

[Wildfisher]

It depends on the diversity of places you fish. When I was a youngster I  only really used 4 flies. Wets: Greenwells and black spiders. Dries: Greenwells and black  gnat.  These worked fine in the places I fished then. I did well and I thought I was rather a  fine fly fisher and knew it all.

When I moved further afield and fished a greater diversity of waters this changed although I have to say my flies were never a random selection and used on a trial and error basis, more flies I'd been advised to try  or had read about.

[Wildfisher]

i think finding fish is a much more useful thing to spend time thinking about

A major part of fishing is being in the right place at the right time. Yes, there is skill  / knowledge in knowing the right place and choosing the right time, but there is also a huge slice of luck involved in this. The right time  may  be affected by a multitude of factors you do  not have  control over.

Once in the right place at the right time, by design or luck, it is  important not to mess up the chance should it come along. Watching  how fish behave in clear water is an education. Sometimes fly choice does not matter, but very often it does. Alex and myself  have often spent hours  trying to catch a single big fish we could see that  steadfastly ignored everything chucked at it until we eventfully gave up, spooked it or finally hit on the right size or profile  or colour or depth.  You could  chuck a sedgehog at these fish all day and not catch them then when fly number 2 does not work either what do you do?

Versatility is the key and that includes not being dogmatic about flies or tactics.

[Wildfisher]

thats the point maybe i'd change the approach before the fly, look for reasons other than fly choice.

I have always considered fly choice as part and parcel of the approach.  :lol:

[haresear]

Versatility is the key and that includes not being dogmatic about flies or tactics.

I'd say so too.

Very often I see a fish rising to duns or emergers regularly and it refuses what appears to me to be a perfect presentation. In these cases the fish has undoubtedly seen the fly, as it has passed overhead along with the naturals it continues to take.

In my experience, most of the time - not always, but mostly, that fish will then ignore the same artificial unless you rest the fish for some considerable time, or change fly. I sometimes rest the fish, but mostly I'll change fly.

If I only carried two patterns I would soon run out of options, which I think would frustrate the hell out of me.

I tried for a good sized fish in the spring. I only once saw it take a natural dun, but it was rising constantly to something just sub surface or in the film and cruising as well. I went through duns, sunk abdomen emergers, nymphs. Eventually I got it first cast with a neutral density pogo nymph and went on to take several more last season with the same tactics when fish were on emergers, as they seemed to be quite a lot last season when I was fishing.

My point is that I am 99% certain I would never have landed that fish had I fished a floating fly. Also, by unlocking the jaws of that particular fish I solved the riddle of the day and that experience allowed me unlock the jaws of several very nice fish over the course of the spring months.  

It just occurred to me that Fred and I came a very similar experience on a creek in NZ. Fred tried for ages for a fish which was nymphing. I was on one bank and had a clear view and was acting as guide. The fish never once took any of Fred's flies but continued feeding hard.

Eventually Fred gave up and I had a go. I had the same problem as Fred and changed my casting position to get a better drift. Still no dice. I thought I saw the fish rise a wee bit higher in the water and tried the pogo nymph. It took first cast.

Again, that fished steadfastly ignored all manner of flies because it was keyed into a particular stage in the life cycle of a particular insect. I reckon we spent a couple of hours throwing all manner of flies at it before we found something that approximated its prey image and again. If we only had two fly patterns, I'm sure we could have passed the rest of the day without a take from a fish which was hard on the feed.  

Alex

[Wildfisher]

Yes Alex, I remember that well!! We had another experience earlier that week at the other end of the depth scale  on Creek 61 Two fish lying deep and feeding. As you watched and told me what was happening I tried all kind of nymphs and finally got a 3lb fish on  a tungsten bead head that would have sunk the Titanic. These fish were on the bottom and not feeding above it.  If I had not had a good section of flies I would have blanked that day. At home we are usually in ignorance of stuff like this because we can't see the fish unless they rise and are fishing  blind most of the time.