AFTMA Rating

[Havtafish]

All the posts of casting and its problems has led me to post this. I have custom built many fly rods over the years. One BIG problem that Ive come across is the AFTMA system. Its always takin that if a rod says its a five weight then it will take a five weight line. I noticed some members hit it on the head with saying that if your fishing short go up a line. BUT to go further I use a system whereas(simply put as its very indepth and would be typing for 3 hrs  :cry: ) you take the blank tie a small bucket to the end of it and keep adding pennies until the blank deflects at 90 degrees to its resting axis. You then count the pennies( which are a constant weight) apply them to a chart and it basically gives you a value for what weight of  line the rod is rated for. When I first started using this system I was amazingly surprised to find that one rod rated at a 5 was really an 8. I built the rod and sure enough the 8 line was best and the 5 was blah. The value of the penny weight was 7.88 for this blank which is rounded up. Many other blanks followed suit either being way under or in some cases over rated. In one case I wanted to build a 6 weight and had to exchange the blank 4 times to get a TRUE 6. I tested them all using the penny method before building. All this said it becomes a big problem I think when you purchase a rod with the rating that you want,  put line on it and it just seems to
underperform. Many if not all rod manufacturer's ken about this rating problem(and have for a long time) and I think in a few years to come you'll see changes for the better. ie a true universal rating system. In my opinion this is a long time coming. It will be nice to purchase a rod and know thats its actually the one you want for the purpose your going to use it. How is a new caster to the game supposed to get encouraged to continue when his his gear is flawed from the start. Just my two cents worth.

If anyone is curious I can post instructions for the test which can be done on any factory rod. It will take a bit of condensing.

[haresear]

Havta,

I'm no engineer, but that sounds like a damn good system for measuring tip deflection (if indeed that is the term). Dead simple, just like me.

[Pearly Invicta]

I had an Orvis wonderline WF rated 8/9 that languished unused for years until I used it on a 6/7 weight B & W Powerlite. Casts like a dream but either Mr Orvis or Messrs Bruce and Walker got it very wrong when they rated their products.

[Bob Wyatt]

Havta's rating system is similar to Bill Hanneman's CCS

http://www.common-cents.info/

This is a huge subject by the way.

[haresear]

Havta's rating system is similar to Bill Hanneman's CCS

Bob,

Is that what Bill H's system is all about?
Havtafish puts it a wee bit more succinctly.

[Bob Wyatt]

 

I know.  That's the big trouble with Bill's CCS.  It works, but you lose the will to live.

[Havtafish]

I think huge in an understatement  :shock:  :wink:  Its MASSIVE. But once you get through all the mess its just really about getting down to a standard system. I had got my info yrs ago from a guy who did some of the testing.Pearly Invicta found oot that the rod was not what it was labelled as. If you couple the problems with rod rating and as Arbeg line mislabelling you can run into a real problem.  How is a beginer or intermediate supposed to cast well with a 5 weight rod which is really a 7 and a 5 line which should be a 4. The expert would just ken through feel thats somethings no right. Hope they get this sorted as it will make chossing rods much easier.

Bob just got two blanks from CTS in New Zealand. A 5 and 7 Affinity Plus. Ever use them as i understand you fish there often?

[Bob Wyatt]

Havta,

I don't have a first hand familiarity with CTS blnks.  I hear they are pretty good though.  Are they 4pc blanks?

[Havtafish]

Yes 4 pcs. They have a custom colour scheme. I went posh and got one golden plum and the other cobalt blue :wink:  :lol: Going to put single foot titanium framed SiC's on them. Line goes through them like snot. In my opinion snakes are another cause of rod underperformance for the caster. Why there still using them Ill never know. I think its just "wrapped" up in tradition. You have an extra wrap for each guide plus the weight of the epoxy. When your talking 10 guides it soon adds up. Ti SiC's are pretty much the same guide weight with less wraps(weight) and faster to build or repair. Plus the line is kept away from the blank and there as slick as hell. I was amazed at the feel when you keep added weight to a min.

[Malcolm]

Interesting post Havtafish. The trouble to my mind is that the same rod can be rated quite differently for line weight by two different anglers. If your system became established I would know that if there is a 127 pennyweight rod then I would fish it with a 5 and my mate would know he would fish it with a 7! Does that make sense?


A few years back Steve Parton, who line rates Shakespeares for them, wrote that he put an AFTM number on a rod to suit a 47 year old with arthritic shoulders and could only fish 10 times a year because he had too big a mortgage.  He went on to say that line ratings were a matter of personal opinion.

One famously overrated rod was the Arthur Cove nymph rod made by Bob Church but at least that had a reason. Arthur Cove used to aerialise huge lengths of double taper. He also needed to pick up a huge length of double taper line in order to cover rising fish therefore the rod rated for 5/6 was in most peoples opinion an 8/9 rating!