you know they ain't ever been fly-fishing for big carp :lol: :8)
[attachimg=1]
I think it depends where you fish - I'm very much of the "just for holding line" school as you know but the "bigger" fish I hook tend to be salmon or sea trout on small rivers and they rarely run out of the pool and it is rare you can't follow them up and down the pool if necessary, they also tend to top out around 6lb with most significantly smaller. I know it is different fishing to what many people do but it is also the case that for a sub-set of anglers the reel is almost always just for holding the line. I've been thinking about it and suspect that in nearly 40 years of fishing I've played 3 fish off the reel, and only two of them took me into the backing. If I was chasing different fish in a different environment then I could hold a different view on this.
This is what I tend to look like when playing a fish, I understand the risks of having all that line flapping about but there are risks with getting them on the reel as well and on small pools like this it works for me:
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj320/caorach/2016%20July/DSC_0913_zps2c8y4tjz.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/caorach/media/2016%20July/DSC_0913_zps2c8y4tjz.jpg.html)
Dave you don't need to justify your tackle tart tendencies to us :makefun
Quote from: Robbie on May 25, 2017, 11:05:36 PM
Dave you don't need to justify your tackle tart tendencies to us :makefun
:lol:
it's nice to be amongst friends! :8)
joking aside, this is a recent photo of Marek, my friend in Gran Canaria. at this point in the battle you can pretty much only watch the backing pour off the reel and hope you don't get spooled....
Its a great photo, that reel looks like its really being put through its paces!
Whenever this topic comes up people often talk about never having a fish take them into their backing. I wonder how relevant this is. I'm by no means a good caster and a good portion of my fly lines remain on the reel. To my thinking if you even end up playing a fish on your reel you'd want to be fairly confident it is going to perform as required. Does it really mater if a fish pulls 10yards or 110yars of line off your reel it still needs to be reliable. Obviously a longer run will put more strain on a reel, but you will require same performance on start-up inertias and if the reel isn't up to scratch the end result will be the same.
quite right Robbie, and you touch on a number of points here. firstly, start-up inertia: this needs to be as near as dammit zero but... secondly: there needs to be no chance of a backlash or over-run & again as the fish runs. it's a tough call and many reels aren't up to scratch (or intended for this situation, to be fair)
Quote from: Robbie on May 26, 2017, 02:02:39 PM
Does it really mater if a fish pulls 10yards or 110yars of line off your reel it still needs to be reliable.
Indeed it does matter, or least it did to me. I had one fish last month that took me too the backing. The smooth drag with no start up inertia was essential with the 5X tippet. However once that amount of line was out on the water the reel became irrelevant. What lost the fish was the drag of the line on the water pulling out the size 16 hook. Possibly not such a big deal if you are using large hooks and heavy nylon, but you won't catch many big trout on a river doing that.
I have seen for years adverts suggesting "zero startup inertia" and I have always wondered how some sort of a reel, cheap or expensive, can have "zero startup inertia". If the drag is part way on when you are fishing then there will be some resistance to any pull that is going to turn the spool of the reel. Only if there is no resistance at all can there be zero effort required ..... unless I am missing something. If no effort is required to start to turn the spool it would gently turn this way and that of its own accord whilst you watched it hanging from the rod handle. Surely it is only when a force draws on the line, even a slight force, that the spool can rotate and that is the force required to overcome the initial inertia. Any physicists here ??
well, if you're spoiling for a scientific argument Vaughan, I guess you're right :lol: yep, "zero inertia" taken literally is a nonsense. but it's an easier concept for most folks (and far more marketable) than "barely perceptible" or "so low you won't get snapped off" ...
as it happens, i really don't have any drag set most of the time when i'm after carp. and that's where the reel comes into it; even at a "zero" setting there's still enough check to prevent an over-run and let the line run smoothly; with a good reel.
Not spoiling for any argument Dave ..... I'm just pointing out that "zero startup inertia" is completely bollocks physics. The reel when it is not turning is just that, it is a "body at rest" in terms of physics. No body when at rest can be moved without the application of a force ... simples. What you have is a setting giving an even but low level of resistance in order to prevent an over-run. If the fish stops running then your reel will also stop simply because you have set a resistance to the turning of the spool. Even with the very low friction and sweet balance of a good centre pin reel it will, in time, stop spinning because of the friction that is in the machine. Zero inertia is, as you say, a nonsense.
For a "zero startup inertia" reel makers would have to invent a friction free machine for which they would be awarded a Nobel Prize because they would be the first in the history of the world to do so..... :roll: :roll:
Quote from: Bobfly on May 26, 2017, 10:37:49 PM
Any physicists here ??
Guilty, but Vaughan has it covered!
For the geeks amongst us, this is fairly comprehensive background to reel drag mechanics, and covers the "zero startup inertia" myth too
http://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/ (http://midcurrent.com/gear/brake-jobs/)
Recent experience has definitely given me an appreciation of super smooth "negligible startup inertia" reels for protecting tippets on saltwater species. I guess the game for manufacturers is to minimise the force experienced through the fly line/leader/tippet combo at the point at which the angler clears loops and transfers onto the reel. The ideal, zero startup inertia force graph would show a smooth transition, whereas in reality there will be an initial spike to overcome the spool inerti. The smaller that spike the better protected the leader. Which I've no doubt you guys get - just working it through in my own head!
Quote from: Craigie17 on May 27, 2017, 03:12:58 AM
The smaller that spike the better protected the leader.
Exactly and that is what separates good reels from poor reels. Not a huge issue if you are using heavy gear, wire traces and stuff, but for delicate tippets when fishing for big trout it mos certainly is.
Thinking a little more about this notion of the startup does make me wonder too about the setting of the hook. If there is no resistance in the system of line/reel/drag/rod rings friction and so on then there is no means of setting the hook. Resistance is needed for that, and the larger the hook then much more force is required. So, there is usually a "strike" by the angler and the running off of the fish against whatever reel inertia there would be takes place afterwards in most instances. That would make the "zero startup" claims even more inapplicable. If you held and swept up a trout rod in a zero system then nothing would happen at the hook. In a strip strike method the force is from the line pull to set the hook.
Must rest in a darkened room now.
Yip it's only once you know the hook is set that you let the fish onto the reel. ive got a fairly old fashioned hardy reel which doesn't really have a drag system as such so you are using your hand on the spool to slow fish if they really go, it's more or less a line holder, my other reel is a modern sealed drag with numbered tension, I like using them both.
Quote from: Bobfly on May 26, 2017, 10:37:49 PM
I have seen for years adverts suggesting "zero startup inertia" and I have always wondered how some sort of a reel, cheap or expensive, can have "zero startup inertia".
It could only have zero inertia if it had zero mass. More correctly mass is determined by inertia - that is to say mass is a measure of the inertia of a body. So if the reel had zero inertia then it would also have zero mass. I'd expect that a zero mass reel would be pretty rare :-)
I also shoot rifle a little bit and am an audio engineer. The pseudo-physics balderdash talked about fishing is nothing when compared to shooting where every writer for a shooting magazine has their own theory based upon completely made up physics, despite their understanding of the most basic physics appearing to be zero. However, the hi-fi industry trumps all when it comes to finding made up physics to sell complete rubbish to people who are stupid enough not to know better. We had an advert on the wall for a while, for our amusement, for a special birch volume knob which was coated in special vibration damping varnish. Apparently this improved the sound of your amplifier and it cost something over £900. Lest you misunderstand this was just the actual knob bit, not anything electronic, and the idea was you removed the one supplied by the manufacturer and upgraded your amp by pushing this new one onto the little post.
Sounds to me that you are not talking any old bit of birchwood here but a small lump of top quality imported rare Mazur Birch Burr which is well known to have several acoustic properties one of which is as good as the vibration dampening quality of a thick leather wallet. :roll: :roll:
Quote from: caorach on May 27, 2017, 07:57:59 PM
We had an advert on the wall for a while, for our amusement, for a special birch volume knob which was coated in special vibration damping varnish. the idea was you removed the one supplied by the manufacturer and upgraded your amp by pushing this new one onto the little post.
don't suppose they do a similar idea for fly reel handles? :lol:
I would think that zero inertia is less of an issue as i agree with the points made earlier about setting the hook. Where I would agree that reels are not just for holding line is when you get a decent sized fish which vacates the area post haste.
Seen the backing knot shooting off toot sweet into the distance quite a few times recently!
Reels with a reliable smooth drag are essential at times. Even on Lewis!
I have accumulated quite a few reels over the decades and everyone has the drag just set that when I am casting I can strip off line during false casting and extending the line and not have an over-run. That is it basically !
I sometimes reckon I should just have click check reels for what I do :roll: :roll: