Hook Size V Body Length

[haresear]

So you want to tie a Large Dark Olive for the start of the season (alright, you are really keen , given the fact that this season isn't done yet).

You reckon a size 14 is about right? Probably it is, as far as length is concerned. But you keep envisaging this bloody great anchor below the surface

Latterly, I've started tying my dry flies on longer shank hooks. What I mean is, if I'm tying a LDO, I'll use a 16 or an 18 long shank instead of a standard 14. It seems to have worked this year OK

What are your thoughts? 

Alex

[Clan Ford]

I tend to use Tiemco TMC 200R's for my dry flies.  They are pretty long shanked nearly all dry my flies are tied on 16's and 18's (except the wol specials) which seems about right for most of the olives on the Earn.

Norm

[Malcolm]

Alex,

I used to tie flies on yorkshire fly body hooks (Peter McKenzie Philps) which allowed me to tie longer flies on small hooks. Unfortunately the company doesn't exist anymore. I must have a hunt to see if anyone else picked up the pattern.

malcolm

[Wildfisher]

Alex,

what's the thinking behind this?

[east wind]

I'm up for that idea.

Apart from when sedges are out, early season is the only time i feel really confident, the time when i know my patterns work. Still every bit helps so i will tie a few 14's longer and smaller.

Cheers

[.D.]

Alex,

what's the thinking behind this?

The relative proportion of bare metal to "fly", I think??

And possibly the according extra weight of said metal in a floating fly (on a hook of the same wire, but differing gape).

I often use up a little of the bend on standard hooks ( to fit more fly on less hook), unless I really need a straight abdomen :|

.D.

[.D.]

One issue might be how happy you are with your hook-up and holding on smaller gaped hooks. I wouldn't fancy a bushy size 14 Elk Hair Sedge ( with a hair or cock hackle) tied in the same proportions on a longer shanked size 16 ( all things being equal), with the gape and spear of a size 16 hook. I suppose it depends to some extent on the type of flies you favour.

Cheers,

.D.

[haresear]

I usually buy standard length hooks taking into account there shank length ie if i wanted a 14 and it was for b400 which are light wire emerger hooks i would buy a 16.

That is what I was getting at. I suppose I didn't put it very well.

Breac, If I lived where you do, I daresay I would be tying in the 10 to 14 size range mainly too. On the rivers however, I'm usually imitating upwinged flies (when fishing dries) so a 16 or an 18 is usually about right once May is over.  

I use loads of different hook patterns, but on true dry flies my preference is for as long a shank as possible, relative to the gape. I want the fish to home in on the body and disregard the business end.

The longest shanks I can find in small sizes (16s and 18s) and on fine wire hooks are on Akita 505 model. I got these from Taimen in Poland http://www.taimen.com/mt/index.php?cPath=49_163_57

I've run out of similar longer shanked hooks (like the Kamasan B400 etc.) to compare these with side by side, but here is a photo of some fairly standard dry fly hooks above the Akita. all of the flies are size 16 except one of the Fulling Mill patterns which is labelled as an 18 :? This might be a mistake I think.

There is a snag. A problem I've found with the Akitas I bought is that they are brittle and prone to breaking. :x
I do hope that this was a problem with a rogue batch and they are not all like that. :?

There were a few replies while I was doing the photograph.
Yes, Fred you are right in that I want less metal sticking out of what I hope is a reasonable approximation of a species of fly that is evident on the water.

I caught a few bonus fish on USD flies this May/June after they had refused more standard patterns, so I really want to show as little hook bend as possible in my usual parachute patterns. With emergers, it is a different story and I'll do as we all do and dress the body well round the bend to simulate an abdomen.

D. Yes, I agree that I wouldn't want any stiff hackles obstructing the hook point. I tend to use a shorter shank and wider gape in that situation and if I've misjudged the length of the kackle fibres, I'm not averse to trimming them so that the hook point sits proud of the hackle. In this situation, the fly sits proud of the surface anyway, so showing the hook to the fish is not such a big issue as it is with parachute flies or spinner patterns where the body of the fly is flush with the surface film.   

[haresear]

I have used deer hair for the detached body, I always tie up daddies like this they float better, I used to use slivers of Cork on a long shank hook, but I prefer the detached style, its horses for courses, breac uaig

I agree, Breac. I suppose that summarises what my point is (remember I am talking imitative and naturally drifting flies here).

We want as big a "fly" as possible using as small a hook as is achievable and practical. Length of fly relative to size of gape really seems to matter in my experience, to fool the fish. This is probably more true of heavily fished waters, but if it is true of these, must it not be true of all waters to a lesser degree?

Discuss...(Just been to a teambuilding pish exercise today. What a load of shite. But hey, it keeps us focussed...)

I suppose I must have learned something from today. Just ask other people how to solve your problems (if you are a manager) and they will do your job for you

Alex

[.D.]

..........
Discuss..............
Alex

Let's have a thinkbin.

You can't beat a bit of joined-up thinking outside the box. :|



.D.