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Rod builders only Ring Spacing

Started by Malcolm, December 23, 2012, 12:22:17 PM

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Wildfisher

Quote from: bushy palmer on December 24, 2012, 08:19:02 AM
In terms of spacing I feel you can't beat your own eye.  :)

That would be my feeling. I seriously wonder if it makes a huge difference to an angler as long as you take typical ring spacings off a typical rod of the same length. Sounds like the  "tackle  voodoo"  nonsense you see with fly lines in particular, designed to confuse, hike prices  and open wallets!  :lol: 

Traditionalist

#11
Quote from: admin on December 24, 2012, 08:25:33 AM
That would be my feeling. I seriously wonder if it makes a huge difference to an angler as long as you take typical ring spacings off a typical rod of the same length. Sounds like the  "tackle  voodoo"  nonsense you see with fly lines in particular, designed to confuse, hike prices  and open wallets!  :lol:

It makes a considerable difference to how a rod casts, especially a fly rod, and what loading it can accept.  Any rod will work with just a tip ring, but it wont accept much loading then. Incorrect spacing can cause a lot of problems.

Wildfisher

I'd like to see some hard evidence Mike. As long a ring spacings are "sensible" and the line does not slap about or spin round the rod I doubt it makes a lot of difference to the angler. These things are subjective and  anglers seldom agree on anything when it comes to tackle other than it works for me or it doesn't. I think we can all agree that there are few subjects over which so much utter shite is written than fishing and fishing gear.  I suppose it's good for the trade though.  :lol:

Traditionalist

Quote from: admin on December 24, 2012, 08:37:02 AM
I'd like to see some hard evidence Mike. As long a ring spacings are "sensible" and the line does not slap about or spin round the rod I doubt it makes a lot of difference to the angler. These things are subjective and  anglers seldom agree on anything when it comes to tackle other than it works for me or it doesn't. I think we can all agree that there are few subjects over which so much utter shite is written than fishing and fishing gear.  I suppose it's good for the trade though.  :lol:

You can see the hard evidence in the line transitions between the spacings when the rod is at its natural curve, the more acute the transition the greater the friction and the more force is "wasted" (= does not go into the cast), as the line tries to bend the rod. That is not subjective, it is a matter of fact.  Incorrect spacings will also cause other problems.

Using the spacings from an existing rod of the same length might be OK if the blank has a similar action, if it doesn't it will cause problems. 

This has nothing to do with any trade or voodoo or general bullshit. It is simply a way for somebody with an unknown blank to set up a rod properly.

Wildfisher

If I was building a 9 foot rod today, I'd simply copy the ring spacings from one of my other 9 foot rods. The spacings are all so similar anyway, pretty much identical in fact,  I very much doubt I'd notice the difference a few mm either way would make. But there is no way to prove or disprove this. Like just about everything in fly fishing it is subjective. I'm with bushy Palmer - if it looks OK it probably is.  Perhaps  these things make a difference to competitive casters, but to angers? I doubt it.

Tackle makers must have nightmares about the day these things become objective, because it would be the ruin of them.   :lol:

bushy palmer

Just to clarify what I meant Mike:

I do follow the charts in the first instance however, when you have the guides taped in place ( I just use masking tape) and put a line on it- your eye will tell you very quicky if any of the rings need moved.


Malcolm

Thanks everyone, Lots of information there - calculations; programs and spreadsheets. Information overload, working it out by eye: which is the basis of one of the static measures. I think I'll probably go with intuition and bias it towards the tip. It shouldn't stiffen the bank too much as all the rings apart from the strippers are single leg lined Fujis. This is something that may surprise you: according to Steve Parton the weight difference to a rod between a full set of Fuji lined single leg rings and comparable snake rings is 0.004g with no disernible difference in the rod action despite the fact that single leg rings have only half the bracing effect. He proved this by doing a blind casting test with very experienced casters.   
There's nocht sae sober as a man blin drunk.
I maun hae goat an unco bellyfu'
To jaw like this

Wildfisher

Quote from: Malcolm on December 24, 2012, 01:30:23 PM
single leg rings have only half the bracing effect.

That was my next question, already answered - thanks.  :D

Traditionalist

Quote from: bushy palmer on December 24, 2012, 10:49:56 AM
Just to clarify what I meant Mike:

I do follow the charts in the first instance however, when you have the guides taped in place ( I just use masking tape) and put a line on it- your eye will tell you very quicky if any of the rings need moved.

Indeed, once you have the basic spacing you can easily see where any problems are. The great advantage in using two lines is that the cord from the tip tenses the rod in its natural curve and you can easily see if the second line has any abrupt transitions.  If you just use one line through the rings then that can pull the rod into a bad curve.

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