We have some superb fly tiers on the forum and I have a question to ask. In my usual salmon and seatrout flies I like a very heavy "wing" of marabou. The problem is cutting off such an immense amount of material is really difficult. What I do is after tying it down I cut of as much as I can - and it still looks messy and intrudes on the eye - then I burn off, with a lighter, the extruding material before finishing off the head. Any better solutions?
I find that a very sharp scalpel used in a sawing motion at an angle works fairly well although this is a problem with a lot of materials, especially incompressible materials like squirrel tail. Indeed, I had such problems with this on large flies using marabou ( turkey "marabou" to be precise, genuine marabou stork plumes are extremely rare), that I went over to using arctic fox tail hair instead. I have not noticed any difference in the effectiveness of the flies and a beneficial side-effect is that they are also more durable.
One may also "stack" the marabou ( or hair) to avoid the bulking up. This basically means tying in smaller bunches in front of each other to build up the wing while avoiding the bulk at the tying-in point.
TL
MC
Thanks Mike,
Marabou has faults in that it is fragile and wraps around the hook but I like it because it is cheap and I can get it it any of the colours I want very easily. Other materials are expensive or don't really have the extreme mobility that I like for the way I fish.
See if this helps.
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16834.0 (http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16834.0)
i must confess that i used marabou a lot when i used to fish loch leven all the time.
fachan,its deadly on trout flies tied in as tails or used as wings.loads of movement even on slow retrieves.the jungle cock viva should be banned :lol:
Malcolm the only advice i have about tying it in is to twist it into a shuttlecock and wet area you are going to tie in.marabou expands when wet, cut it as close as you can when wet and it will contract a little when it dries and be slightly neater at the cut.
cheers Garry
Like deer hair I cut it before I tie it in much easier and less messy. You then trim the stub. As Garry says it is deadly. The humungus has done well for me as has the jcviva.
Cheers
Paul
Andy try a pinch of sunburst marabou as a tail on a kate mclaren,its been a reliable taker of fish on leven for years now.if you keep it as short as you would your normal floss tail it pulses when pulled .
Garry
Quote from: Traditionalist on October 22, 2011, 11:09:15 PM
I went over to using arctic fox tail hair instead. I have not noticed any difference in the effectiveness of the flies and a beneficial side-effect is that they are also more durable.
Our guide mate John in New Zealand did the same and reckons it is vastly superior.
Quote from: Malcolm on October 22, 2011, 11:56:01 PM
Thanks Mike,
Marabou has faults in that it is fragile and wraps around the hook but I like it because it is cheap and I can get it it any of the colours I want very easily. Other materials are expensive or don't really have the extreme mobility that I like for the way I fish.
That happens with fox tail as well ( Wrapping around the hook). But it is very durable, and not really expensive. I dye my own but you can get very reasonably priced packs;
http://www.foxy-tails.co.uk/category-14.html (http://www.foxy-tails.co.uk/category-14.html)
I would certainly recommend you try it as a substitute and see how it works, you might be pleasantly surprised. I am satisfied that it actually works better than marabou on the majority of such flies that I dress. But that of course is subjective. Make sure you get Arctic fox, other hair just does not have the same mobility ( or other properties). Icelandic sheep for instance, although it looks great on the bench, is absolutely terrible in water, it knots up, tangles up on itself. Quite a long time ago now I made the mistake of dyeing a whole skin in various colours without having tried the stuff out very extensively. After giving it a few tests, I gave the whole lot away to a lady who was making dolls.
TL
MC
Quote from: admin on October 23, 2011, 10:16:23 AM
Our guide mate John in New Zealand did the same and reckons it is vastly superior.
Actually I think so too. I have had some amazing days fishing in various Scandinavian lakes with an Arctic fox wing "Sweeney Todd" streamer. The brownies love it. I just use Dick Walker's original pattern, but use the Arctic fox for the wing.
LS 8...4 hook
Black thread, silver or copper rib, magenta wool "thorax". Black Arctic fox wing. Crimson throat hackle. I don't care whether the magenta wool is fluorescent or not ( original pattern called for fluorescent magenta floss), I have noticed no difference at all when the stuff is fluorescent. MOST IMPORTANT!!! NO WEIGHT!!!! Fish on a floating or intermediate line, slow pulls of a foot or so with a good pause in between.
This is more or less the original pattern;
http://www.fish4flies.com/Lures/Streamers_and_Bucktails/Sweeney_Todd (http://www.fish4flies.com/Lures/Streamers_and_Bucktails/Sweeney_Todd)
I assume it is taken as a leech.
TL
MC
Quote from: col on October 23, 2011, 12:36:36 PM
Just a alternative, theres a few artificial subs that are surprisingly good, one is polar hair by h2o, very mobile and tough and tapered.
Col
Have seen and tried a few synthetics, none of them even comes close to Arctic fox for action.
TL
MC
Quote from: col on October 23, 2011, 12:50:05 PM
i disagree Mike , ive used both on my pike flies theres little differance.
Is the one you mentioned the one you are using? Of course I have not tried them all. But as the Arctic fox is cheap enough and easily available I don't really see much point in using a synthetic. I have not used Arctic fox on pike flies at all as far as I can recall.
Always interested in materials per se though. Do you have a URL for them?
TL
MC
I have tried Arctic fox before. I've got some in white and it is very good but relatively expensive - my plumes cost me 10p each and come in exactly the colours I want. More than that I think the action of marabou is untouchable - that's my opinion of course but I have more confidence in it than it any other winging material. It may all be in the head but I constantly work the fly for movement and to me marabou breathes like no other material.
Quote from: Malcolm on October 23, 2011, 01:16:20 PM
I have tried Arctic fox before. I've got some in white and it is very good but relatively expensive - my plumes cost me 10p each and come in exactly the colours I want. More than that I think the action of marabou is untouchable - that's my opinion of course but I have more confidence in it than it any other winging material. It may all be in the head but I constantly work the fly for movement and to me marabou breathes like no other material.
Once upon a time I would have agreed with you, but not since I tried the Arctic fox. A whole tail only costs me a few Euros. No idea what it costs in the UK. May well be expensive, I don't know.
Obviously, if the stuff is a lot more expensive there, then that is of course a major consideration.
TL
MC
Another option is to tie it back to front over the hook eye and then double it back, it makes for a bulkier head but it's more durable, don't think a bulky head would be an issue on your flies from what I've seen.
Quote from: col on October 23, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
Any chance of a link from one of your suppliers Mike, i wee tiny bit costs us a few quid! It's one of the reasons ive looked for subs!
Actually I got the last lot free from a friend of mine who is a trapper. I did him a favour and he sent me enough to last me the rest of my life. From what I have heard the Foxy tails people are pretty good;
http://www.foxy-tails.co.uk/ (http://www.foxy-tails.co.uk/)
but looking through that site they are not exactly what I would call cheap either!
Before that I got a lot of stuff here, but I also got that cheap because I did somebody a favour, they also allowed me to use all their photos on my old website, free of charge!
http://peterpalms.com/peaux2/ (http://peterpalms.com/peaux2/)
http://peterpalms.com/tails/index.html (http://peterpalms.com/tails/index.html)
http://peterpalms.com/scrapsource/Peltsused.jpg (http://peterpalms.com/scrapsource/Peltsused.jpg)
Prices seem to have gone up a lot since the last time I bought it!
TL
MC
I just had a good look through a few suppliers sites, the retail ( and wholesale!) price of this has gone through the roof! I paid two dollars ( US )apiece for large snow white tails less than six years ago. ( I got 150 of them ). I dyed what I wanted, and a lot of people from my fishing clubs wanted some as well, so I just gave them out at cost. These were mostly salmon fly dressers. I dyed quite a few for various people as well. ( Most actually wanted dyed material).
Having looked more closely at this I can now fully understand the price objections. I simply did not realise that this had become such an expensive commodity in such a short time.
I will ask around and see if I can find a reasonably priced source for you.
TL
MC
First of all, when you buy this stuff you have to make sure you are actually getting the right stuff. This was known as Alopex lagopus but it has been reclassified, and is now referred to as Vulpes lagopus
.
It is also known as "Shadow fox", "white fox", "polar fox" or "snow fox"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_fox)
After having a look through my old suppliers list the best I can find is large Arctic fox tails at 20$ apiece;
http://www.promiselandranch.net/Fur%20and%20Leather%20Scraps.html (http://www.promiselandranch.net/Fur%20and%20Leather%20Scraps.html)
http://www.promiselandranch.net/Images%20and%20Buttons/img4.jpg (http://www.promiselandranch.net/Images%20and%20Buttons/img4.jpg)
It's always worth looking here;
http://www.chichesterinc.com/ArcticFurPieces.htm (http://www.chichesterinc.com/ArcticFurPieces.htm) ( Scroll through to find it).
They also have the tails at 12.50 $ apiece. Again, scroll down to find it.
http://www.chichesterinc.com/FoxTails.htm (http://www.chichesterinc.com/FoxTails.htm)
There is little point in buying this stuff at various fly-dressing retailers as they obviously use a hefty mark-up!
I have sent a few e-mails and maybe I can find something else for you. Have to wait and see.
The current exchange rate is 1.00 GBP =1.59510 USD so 20$ is 12.50 GBP and 12.50$ = 7.80 GBP
I will get back to you when I get any news. I have a couple of furrier friends and they often have large amounts of offcuts. Perfect for flies but not much use for anything else. Last time I was in Hamburg I was given two large sacks for free. I gave this away at various demos, but maybe I can get some more and ship it to you. Depends on the cost of course. Shipping costs have also gone through the roof!
Worth noting here that the fur trade uses various names for furs etc. Always best to check the stuff to see what it actually is before buying it.
TL
MC
Putting a locking turn behind hair or in this case marabou helps. Cutting it at an angle at least gives is a shape that a good head can be formed but it'self has pitfalls as the thread can easily slip off due to the angle which defeats the object of doing so in the first place. Just being careful & using "sharp pointed scissors" should be good enough I feel. I very rarely use Marabou but the few time I have it compreses easily & the tier should have little problem. Your problem may be as simple as using too much.
It is a very mobile material so maybe little might be the way to go, I don't know, just a suggestion.
The best Marabou is available from Dave Downie. I am sure a Google search will find him. I have seen his work, does his own dying with nice vibrant colours that Malcolm would love. A competition angler & Bow man generally so we do not keep in touch but business is business.
Tight Lines
Quote from: Highlander on October 23, 2011, 10:04:39 PM
Putting a locking turn behind hair or in this case marabou helps. Cutting it at an angle at least gives is a shape that a good head can be formed but it'self has pitfalls as the thread can easily slip off due to the angle which defeats the object of doing so in the first place.
Indeed, that's a very good point. If one does it like this, using tapered cuts, and "stacking" as described, then a drop of thin varnish or glue will not go amiss on each "head" thus formed. Stripping the butts will obviously reduce bulk as well, another excellent point from Dennis.
In point of fact, this wont work on "hard" hairs like squirrel without a locking turn, and even this is iffy with or without glue etc. The hairs just pull out in use.
Fairly good explanation from Davy here;
http://www.flyfield.com/hairwing.htm (http://www.flyfield.com/hairwing.htm)
TL
MC