I have been skating big sedges all week & been catching some rather large trout mainly just before dark.My setup has been 9 4wt short furled leader 6 foot tippet with the lot greased up with floatant.I have been casting across & slightly down.When drag starts grabbing the line i give it little tweaks across & down.Then sometimes little tweaks back up against the flow.The tweaking of the line causes the furled leader to cause a disturbance on top of the water too.Not sure if this disturbance will put some fish of or not.I am wondering if a longer rod high sticking approach holding all the leader off the water would be a better setup to try.Also wouldn't mind trying it in an upstream approach.Not sure how i would skate a sedge fishing upstream guessing i would need to have a tight line & flick the rod tip up & down.Any sedge tweaks out there withing to share any tips on there setup & methods of skating flies would be welcome.Cheers All
If you're worried about disturbance I'd go for a mono tapered leader with either a superglued no knot connection to fly line or a needle knot, both very neat and will minimise disturbance. I'd definitely prefer that to a longer rod and keeping the leader off the water as you'd limit yourself in the water you can cover distance wise without getting too close to the fish.
I've been having good success on big trout recently too on a similar method. Also spent a bit of time in NZ this year fishing mouse patterns this way. It's a bit early to call any conclusions but one thing is I definitely don't think the trout take it as a sedge, the response is very aggressive an attack on something rather than a typical feeding rise to an insect. I haven't been fishing sedge patterns either, too small for me, huge foam terrestrials or mouse patterns, I'm finding something very big gets the response. It's a really interesting period experimenting with this, the behaviour is exactly the same as I found in NZ. The notion that skating a sedge is a representation of the natural doesn't work for me, I've never seen a sedge swinging right across the river or even skating as fast as even a small strip to your fly line causes :lol: I definitely feel what we're doing is bringing out the more aggressive, opportunistic side of the trout. Typically they won't touch something that's dragging but make it big and make it seem very alive and all of a sudden...
I have a feeling upstream won't get the same response, well, it will be a heck of a lot harder to impart a swimming action to get the aggressive response. Not saying it won't work and it would be really interesting to try but my gut feeling is negative. My approach similar to my normal dry approach is to cast across, upstream mend, let it dead drift and then fish out once it starts to drag, mixing up straight swings and little twitches. The twitched approach has definitely got the best response. Don't know if many have tried on lochs too but a really big dry pulled across the surface at night is pretty effective too. There's something in the movement at nighttime.
The other night I fished 2030 through till 0530, the period of darkness starting from around 2230 through to 0330 was superb. Rises to the hatching flies slowed down but the fish were obliging to our very large dries. Once it was dark enough that I couldn't fish normal dries to risers I went onto a foam cicada, my brother on a turks tarantula. Mice will be getting a swim next outing. This was also on a river flat, completely calm surface, very modest flow. In NZ I was typically fishing them through runs where they emptied into pools, just as the mouse left the run into the slacker water was the hit zone.
It's all interesting, I'd be very keen to hear your findings if you put in some time in on this as I'd love to learn as much as possible about it.
Interesting guys,
Are you fishing to sighted/rising fish or is this prospecting.
Scott I guess in the middle of the night there was very little sighting of anything!
I've tried this on rivers before and had one savage rise to a non seen/non rising trout.
The take was what I assume a sub surface take to a streamer would be like, alas it didn't hook up
I have been using it as a searching method .But if i see a large trout rising rising below me.I let it dead drift down & just as it enters the trouts window if i give a little tweak odes are you get a big responce.Been finding it very usfull on flater sections that's normally hard to fish where i normally spook them with an upstream approach.
Mainly prospecting but again if you hear something rise I chuck a cast in that direction. Right now it's not truly dark, there was full cloud cover yet we could still navigate around without torches. It's too dark to see rises though unless there is some reflected light on a pocket of the water.
If I can see the rises, I'm not usually targetting them with the big skated flies, rather a normal approach.
Rab - I find the upstream approach is nigh on useless on the flats. I have to fish across from the fish, or even marginally upstream and across from it, cast with appropriate slack for the angle and I'm seeing a hugely better success rate than going upstream to the fish.
Quote from: scotty9 on June 28, 2013, 06:34:51 PM
Rab - I find the upstream approach is nigh on useless on the flats. I have to fish across from the fish, or even marginally upstream and across from it, cast with appropriate slack for the angle and I'm seeing a hugely better success rate than going upstream to the fish.
Will keep that in mind Scotty9
I have been using large CDC & Elk flies tied with extra CDC & Deer hair on a size 10 Kamasan B830 hook fairly bulky & large.When tweaking them they get pulled under & bob back up & soon become water logged.So with them getting drowned & fish slime there quite high maintenance.I am going through loads of fumed silica at the moment.I saw this pattern on the net.
http://www.frankenfly.com/grillos-later-skater/ (http://www.frankenfly.com/grillos-later-skater/)
I have combined a CDC & elk with the genetic hackle & foam at the front from the grillos -skater.Hopefully a little less maintenance.Cheers
Quote from: Rabmax on June 28, 2013, 06:28:09 PM
I have been using it as a searching method .But if i see a large trout rising rising below me.I let it dead drift down & just as it enters the trouts window if i give a little tweak odes are you get a big responce.Been finding it very usfull on flater sections that's normally hard to fish where i normally spook them with an upstream approach.
That's good to know guys, my river has a lot of flats, like casting into a mirror and while,I have some success upstream, will give this method a go, the river has decent sedge hatches as well
Rab what about the good old g&h sedge or stimulator, almost unsinkable and low maintenance
I like the look of the stimulator might give it a try Harpo.But the one i have been tying up to try out is a sort of half CDC & Elk with stimulator & bit of foam at the front.I just find there is something special about a CDC & Elk.Something about those long CDC fibers wafting about make it deadly.I tried this one for a little while last night & had lots of follows & splashes but they didn't really want it.
Fly Tying Foam Grasshopper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BJC1vh2-G4#ws)
I fish it on a few smaller rivers & it catches well.
Harpo, don't piss about with sedges :lol:
(http://www.taneycomotrout.com/images/498_snowshoe_mouse_062.JPG)
In all serious though, I'll definitely try out a big CDC and elk with some foam like you say Rab, like the sound of it. Some big mice are definitely going to get a swim too, that could be very interesting!
Quote from: scotty9 on June 28, 2013, 08:41:26 PM
Harpo, don't piss about with sedges :lol:
:lol:
Have you seen this vid? , only clips on YouTube
Craig Butler has the DVD
http://youtu.be/OyRPa0nA9nM (http://youtu.be/OyRPa0nA9nM)
I've not seen the full video actually, I know, sacrilege! Might just have to try and borrow it :D
Quote(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f233/Algie123/BrownMottledSedge1P1011758.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Algie123/media/BrownMottledSedge1P1011758.jpg.html)
Above fly is one of a type I used at night on the Barrhead Dams in the 60/70s.
My setup was just a straight section of 6lb Maxima around 6ft with one dropper which had the sedge & on the point I fished a standard Invicta or Whickhams. The cast was greased up to & including the sedge but not the last section which was allowed to sink a few inches. Retrieve was slow but erratic,. Trout & on occasion large Trout sometime slashed at the sedge & missed but a solid take could come from the sunk tail fly. Though it was night if you got the angle towards what light here was surprising how well you can see the surface fly. Night sight usually comes about 3/4 hrs in. A bright torch can ruin it for a whle & to that end I had a red or orange filter fitted which did the trick.
I now trim the hackle at the bottom to make it sit down a bit in the water but picture shows the way it was all those years back. Night fishing is not for everybody & if you feel unsure at the waters edge do not do it. It is an acquired arte & not for everybody. Study to be quiet & be quiet to study is my take on it.
Tight Lines
Tip: pre-dress a few flies the day before & mount them on casts, saves fumbling about in the dark trying to tie a fly on.I used to use the old Permaflote not the new stuff which is useless or the modern
Watershed. Remember these products are a Pre Treatment & not for application loch side.
Mucilin was the "grease" I used & still do . Green or Red tin, makes no difference. For the fly I use Loons Aquel which I find to be good but here are many out there that will do the trick. Oh & do not we to impatient to start night fishing Arrive in the gloaming set up you tackle have a coffee & wait. Trout that have been feeding in the falling light on small insects will cease &
after about an hour or so feel safe in the dark & activly seek out larger morsels. This is the time for larger Trout to cruise the margins
I will trim a V in the bottom of a couple of these hybrid CDC & Elk flies with hackle at the front.I cant really make my mind up yet what gets the most hits between high floating them or fishing them flush (Both work well).On losing fish ,one evening i seem to land most.Then the next evening i will only land a few & loose most.I think i get the best hookups when i lift quick as opposed to hesitating first.One thing i am certain about is some fish will hit again sometimes even after they have felt the hook moments before.Cheers All
Quote from: scotty9 on June 28, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
I've not seen the full video actually, I know, sacrilege! Might just have to try and borrow it :D
It's decent, although short for the money, next time I see Butler I'll get it from him.
Quote from: Rabmax on June 28, 2013, 08:19:41 PM
I tried this one for a little while last night
That's funny Rab, I saw that video on YouTube the other night and saved it to tie one up soon?
Good to hear you got attraction to it.
Quote from: Rabmax on June 28, 2013, 10:55:46 PM
I will trim a V in the bottom of a couple of these hybrid CDC & Elk flies with hackle at the front.I cant really make my mind up yet what gets the most hits between high floating them or fishing them flush (Both work well).On losing fish ,one evening i seem to land most.Then the next evening i will only land a few & loose most.I think i get the best hookups when i lift quick as opposed to hesitating first.One thing i am certain about is some fish will hit again sometimes even after they have felt the hook moments before.Cheers All
What sort of size are the fish?
Something I've also seen both in clear water and dirty water is that fish miss the fly a fair amount. Especially with a dragging fly, I've seen them just come up short, it's almost like they have difficulty interpreting the route of a dragging fly. I guess it's unusual for them. I also had a fish in NZ take a nymph, come off 10 seconds later, in the same motion it popped I recast out and took it on the dry!
Guess we'll need to catch up sometime for a fish then Harpo! :8)
Quote from: scotty9 on June 29, 2013, 12:17:27 AMy!
Guess we'll need to catch up sometime for a fish then Harpo! :8)
That would be great Scott, no nighttime trips on the first time though.
I like to meet randoms from the Internet at daytime first :lol:
Quote from: Harpo on June 29, 2013, 12:21:03 AM
That would be great Scott, no nighttime trips on the first time though.
I like to meet randoms from the Internet at daytime first :lol:
Seems fair. I'll be the beardy one in the long coat and sunglasses.
Scotty9 the best evening so far using this tweaking had a dozen trout ranging from 1-1/2 lb-3-1/2- 4lb ish size.Probably small for New Zealand standards but very impressive for where i fish.I never knew there were as many large trout there before.Lost one last night about 4lb just before getting it to the net.
Quote from: scotty9 on June 29, 2013, 12:28:09 AM
Seems fair. I'll be the beardy one in the long coat and sunglasses.
:D
Rab - are fish those size unusual for the river? What time were you fishing?
I feel like going out now! Mind you I usually manage to freak myself out at dusk never mind Middle of the night :gay4 :D
They're great fish Rab, definitely no need to put them down! I just asked incase the lost fish were because of small fish grabbing hold, obviously not.
Last week I was sight fishing the river I'm talking about, absolutely shocked at the numbers of large trout. Have to admit I'm absolutely loving the low and clear conditions right now, sure it can be hard but that's what makes it more fun.
Quote from: Rabmax on June 28, 2013, 07:13:00 PM
When tweaking them they get pulled under & bob back up
I've read that loch fishermen use this sinking and then bobbing back up with big flies and it can be devastating and the fish really react to it.
Quote from: Harpo on June 29, 2013, 12:56:44 AM
:D
Rab - are fish those size unusual for the river? What time were you fishing?
I feel like going out now! Mind you I usually manage to freak myself out at dusk never mind Middle of the night :gay4 :D
I have caught a few large trout from this river before.Quite a lot of these large trout are coming from slower river sections.I did know there were larger trout in these sections as i have seen the jumps before.Never had much success before so tended to pass by these river sections.Not anymore though :D.I have been fishing mostly from 5pm until just getting dark.Would fish longer into the night but the bankings are full of nettles & you would get stung to death.If you see lots of sedges on the water early evening 4-5 pm seems to fish well all the way till dark if mild weather.If theres not many sedges about seems to fish better the nearer it gets to darkness.That's what i have been finding so far anyway.Going to give it a try on some of the smaller rivers i fish with a slightly smaller skated sedge & see what happens
QuoteI've read that loch fishermen use this sinking and then bobbing
Has a Sedge got a diving plane or aqualung?
:)
Some of these "modern" writers talk a lot of pish.
If you can sink & bob a Sedge without modifying the fly then good luck to you.
It is certainly not something the natural will do.
Tight Lines
Quote from: Highlander on June 30, 2013, 12:59:40 PM
Has a Sedge got a diving plane or aqualung?
:)
Some of these "modern" writers talk a lot of pish.
If you can sink & bob a Sedge without modifying the fly then good luck to you.
It is certainly not something the natural will do.
Tight Lines
I don't think it is really that rubbish Alan. The fly going under and then bobbing back up could be taken as a hatching fly. I know my Dry Fly,#14, sometimes goes under and bobs back onto the surface when it is well anointed with Mucilin and fish still take it confidently so they must see it as something to eat :)
We will have to disagree on that one guys. Of course a fly can be inadvertently pulled under & bob back up. It has happened to us all at some time but to "actively work" a standard fly like that can not be done. Even festooned with floatant will soon be come waterlogged & cease to float at all. Only exceptuon I can think of is a stacked hair popper with a diving vane built in. But we talk of Sedge not Poppers.
Sedge hatch from pupa, they do not do water aerobics or synchronized swimming . I am not saying it does or has not worked but it is not a normal occurrence in nature. If we can imitate or suggest nature with our creations then that will do for me.
Tight Lines & I will say no more on the subject.
It is strange how we look on things so differently Alan. I have watched sedges on the surface, they don't skate by the way they hop across the surface, and sometimes they get hit by a breaking wave, disappear below the surface and then pop back up again to continue on their way. There are also some which get drowned but also pop back up but stay stuck in the film, still on the surface but stuck and only struggle to break free. The pupae too are only sedges when they reach the surface and start to hatch and the sunk and re-surfacing dry must appear like those to a passing trout. We will never know of course but as long as it works I certainly wont knock it.
My modified CDC & Elk with hackle & little foam outboard thing at the front was very successful yesterday.The main river was chocolate brown so i fished a tributary.Got there about 5pm & started tweaking my modified fly.It skates better floats better less maintenance required.You can also still make it bob under if you wish my keeping your rod lower to the water when tweaking.Also less disturbance using a tapered leader as opposed to the furled leader.Only problem was if i tweaked it they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.But fished dead drift it was game on.Caught well until about 9pm when catching slowed to almost a halt.Was going to go home but decided to give it one last go again with this tweaking.It was game on again & really drove the trout nuts.The last hour was mental often catching a fish every cast.Great Fun.Cheers All
Quote from: Highlander on June 30, 2013, 01:28:34 PM
We will have to disagree on that one guys. Of course a fly can be inadvertently pulled under & bob back up. It has happened to us all at some time but to "actively work" a standard fly like that can not be done. Even festooned with floatant will soon we come waterlogged & cease to float at all. Only exceptuon I can think of is a stacked hair popper with a diving vane built in. But we talk of Sedge not Poppers.
Sedge hatch from pupa, they do not do water aerobics or synchronized swimming . I am not saying it does or has not worked but it is not a normal occurrence in nature. If we can imitate or suggest nature with our creations then that will do for me.
Tight Lines & I will say no more on the subject.
I have to agree with this and also not saying that this action doesn't work, of course it does but I think the difference is that in my eyes the trout is reacting to something other than what the fisherman perhaps thinks he is imitating. Giving them something large to chase seems to bring out the best of their aggression, I do not believe for one instance that these fish are taking the fly as a sedge imitation, it's just something. Totally agree that I have never once seen a sedge remotely behave in the way our flies move on the end of our line, apart from when they are static dead drifting :lol:
Ok this is total semantics, a bit anal and means absolutely nothing but I feel that the conventional wisdom that says when we get great smash takes on the surface it's all about the sedge fishing is questionable. How often do you watch adult sedges running across the surface and never getting hit? Me personally, all the time.
Rab - superb! Any pictures of your fly?
Quote from: scotty9 on June 30, 2013, 04:42:04 PM
How often do you watch adult sedges running across the surface and never getting hit? Me personally, all the time.
I'd agree with that, on lochs it's very apparent, although recently I did see a few nailed, but most of the time they appear to skate about unmolested.
Here's a picture of the large size 10 ones .
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/1966/pmmf.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/pmmf.jpg/)
I was using smaller less bulky ones for the smaller trout in the tributary yesterday.
Another fly i catch lots of trout on the the french leader or Duo when there taking just below the surface.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/2203/softwing.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/softwing.jpg/)
I use them in all the useful body colours.Normally Yellow, Olive, or Grey
Sorry the pictures are crap.It's the best i can do with my camera & my photo taking knowledge.Cheers
Swisher's Dancing Caddis might be a good option too.I haven't tried skating it yet but i guess it's not called the dancing caddis for nothing.I use it for the Duo often as it's a great catcher & can be made very visable too.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img442/3292/gr72.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/gr72.jpg/)
(Click for better picture)
Cheers All :D
Sorry for the delay Rab, looked at these when you posted and forgot to post up saying thanks. They look good, can certainly envisage lots of movement from the cdc.
Size 14 yellow emerger then Size 20 cdc/elk last night, dead drifted, nothing on the big flies :roll:
It's that time of year again for the sedge twitching.Had a great night last night fishing till 1am.Going to try an all night go tonight.Hopefully there will be some moon light & i can see just a wee bit.Cast across as near the opposite bank.Start twitching & hold on.(great fun).Get twitching people :lol:.Cheers All
Quote from: Rabmax on June 17, 2014, 06:46:48 PM
It's that time of year again for the sedge twitching.Had a great night last night fishing till 1am.Going to try an all night go tonight.Hopefully there will be some moon light & i can see just a wee bit.Cast across as near the opposite bank.Start twitching & hold on.(great fun).Get twitching people :lol:.Cheers All
Hi Rab, funny you post this, I had forgotten about this topic and never got to try this last year.
However I was out last week and was having fun with sedges, and again yesterday.
I have found a perfect pool for skating sedges on and I have box full of bushy beasts.
I almost tried it last night but the sea trout were moving so I out on a teal blue and silver and caught f' all instead :lol: