I know there are several threads here about leaders/knots/attaching droppers. In the past I have tended to fish with just one fly (tangles were too common otherwise :?). I want to now try at least one dropper.
I have tried tying the dropper with a water knot but the connection always seems to fail when I test it by pulling. I make sure that I moisten the knot thoroughly so that is not the problem. I also make sure that I use the tag end that faces the point of the leader (ie away from the reel). But everytime it seems to break.
Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? I notice that I find it impossible to stop the bits of line crossing over each other as I loop the lines through - could this be the problem?
Does anyone use another method (not blood knot - too hard to tie) for attaching droppers? I've seen something called a dropper loop - any good?
Gary.
Gary,
You must be tying it wrong. Try following this animated version and see if it helps (the surgeon's knot is the same as the water knot as is the Cove knot).
In the animated knot example you would tie your dropper to the green piece, being the thicker length of nylon (edited this after screwing it up initially). In other words, tie your fly to the tag which points back towards your tail fly. Don't under any circumstances tie your dropper fly to the tag which points back up the line towards your rod tip.
http://www.animatedknots.com/surgeonsjoin/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Alex
Yeah, had thought about the rings to. Where is the best place to buy them?
On the water knot - looking at the animation you can see how the white line always stays on the same side of the green line. When I tie the knot they tend to twist over each other a little. I think that is where I am going wrong.
QuoteOn the water knot - looking at the animation you can see how the white line always stays on the same side of the green line. When I tie the knot they tend to twist over each other a little. I think that is where I am going wrong.
I've never paid much attention to how I tie them Gary, but I've never had a problem with the water knot failing.
What nylon/fluoro are you using?
If you go for the metal rings, avoid the Lureflash ones (I use Riverge). l find the flatter profile of the Lureflash causes the leader to curl up when your knot is tightened. I have settled on the Uni knot for this.
Alex
QuoteJust to confuse things Col, I just use 2, used to use 3
Me too.
Alex
Cheers for all that. I'm in Aberdeen so i'll pop into Somers and get some rings and some new nylon. Was practising on the stuff I used last year and it may be a bit old.
I have had breakage with the water knot but only with fluorocarbon.
Quote from: Ardbeg
Just to confuse things Col, I just use 2
/quote]
Same here, I used to use 4, then 3, but gave it try with just two last year and had no problems. Tend to use it with fluoro, I prefer a double blood knot with Maxima.
Greenwell
I find using it with Florocarbon a nightmare especially the lower strengths. It works fine with nylon or even magic line but the floro leads to many break offs when the fish take. As a result nowadays only use the floro with a single point fly no droppers.
Sandy B.O.
Quote from: Gary on March 15, 2007, 03:17:23 PM
Does anyone use another method (not blood knot - too hard to tie) for attaching droppers? I've seen something called a dropper loop - any good?
Gary.
Gary,
When I use a dropper now I tie them New Zealand style. Very simply this is: on the first fly tie a length of nylon on the bend of the hook and tie on the second fly. I've been using this method for several years on rivers and last year switched over almost completely. I have never had a problem with it. I do have a confidence issue however when the bob fly is very small and in that situation I use a water knot.
Malcolm, have heard of this method but never tried it - does it produce? and also how do the fish find taking the fly with two lines attached? would like to hear a bit more on your fedback with this method. I'm wondering if its the case of keep it simple and get results.
All Ears .... Sandy B.O.
I use the NZ dropper fairly often, when fishing two dries or a dry and a nymph.
I have done OK with the method, but must confess to getting more tangles than when using traditional droppers, when using the dry with a nymph. I find the dropper can loop around the dry, but maybe that's just my casting.
I also think that if a fish approaches the uppermost fly from directly behind (i.e. in line with the leader) then it may push the fly away with its head before it can take. This could be a problem when pulling flies as opposed to drifting them?
Alex
Thanks Alex, will give it a go and try and see how things compare - may help reduce my breakages on the finer Flouro's.
Sandy B.O.
There are two ways of attacing the dropper in the NZ rig. You can do as most folk do and attach your dropper to the hook bend, or you could use the "two in the eye" method, tying the dropper to the eye of the upper fly.
Alex
Hello Sandy,
I started using the method a few years ago when fishing heavy for grayling This is an ideal setup for the New Zealand method. Typically I'll fish a super heavy nymph Leaded + goldhead + heavy wire Size 8 longshank and 18 inches below it a small spider usually a partridge and orange or a snipe and purple but occasionally two heavy nymphs. Most of this fishing is done at extremely short range and I can't remember any tangles. I really think this is where it's best as I really don't like a dropper so close to the tail fly.
On the lochs I started using this with two flies but only when the tail fly was the smaller of the two. This is ideal for one of my standard ways of fishing the lochs: a large hopper on the bob and a size 16 snipe and purple or hare's ear on the tail. Again no problems so far.
I didn't really have any reason to switch to NZ style on the lochs with the flies 7 or 8ft apart (just curiosity - I like trying out new things) but having tried it I don't see any disadvantages either. After all with flies tied on the water knot I wonder just how close the flies is to the main cast anyway - it certainly wraps around it rather a lot.
Thanks Malcolm I think I'll try both NZ methods this year with the Flouro to see what the results are. Hopefull a lot less in the breakages department.
Sandy B.O.
i've been a big fan of the NZ style since, er, visiting NZ and seeing how effective it could be for suspending a small nymph below a larger dry fly at just the right depth. i've had success with the same method on lochs in scotland , but when pulling flies i still prefer traditional droppers. i used to fish with a chap who swore by a four fly set up- two bushy dry flies , the second tied to the bend of the first about 6 foot apart , and then two small pheasant tails or hare's ears tied on short dropper lengths of nylon , two to the eye of each dry fly. :shock: i know if i tried this i'd spend all day untying tangles. he caught fish on all four flies.
have to admit i often buy ready tied ones quite often having had some breakages when tying my own (both blood and water), and because i am very lazy and i don't get to go fishing often enough to risk losing the very few fish i hook to yet another element of my own incompetence. but i really should tie them myself.
Quote from: sandyborthwick on March 20, 2007, 10:28:03 AM
Thanks Malcolm I think I'll try both NZ methods this year with the Flouro to see what the results are. Hopefull a lot less in the breakages department.
Sandy B.O.
The best use for fluoro is to tie your dahlias to canes don't worry about damaging your dahlias as they grow - the stuff will break. :)
Hi Swithun, I gave up on shop bought leaders just for that reason - you cannot tell how long or where they have been sitting around and they often fail more than your own creations from experience.
Sandy B.O.
Ps. Looking forward to seeing you in April - missed the biggest Brown of my career on Sunday - had to be double figures.
QuoteHi Swithun, I gave up on shop bought leaders just for that reason - you cannot tell how long or where they have been sitting around and they often fail more than your own creations from experience.
hmmm....good point, hadn't considered that really, and buying them mail order means they're just as likely to be prehistoric. and of course now you've said that i'll never be able to use a shop bought one again.
Quotemissed the biggest Brown of my career on Sunday - had to be double figures.
QuoteI lost the best fish I've kooked on a fly last weekend on Dunalastair when my bought dropper snapped
i have little sympathy for this kind of thing . if you insist on hooking fish, and big ones , then inevitably your tackle is going to fail.
Easy solution is to adopt my tried and tested tactic of keeping my flies well away from all but the smallest trout :lol: :lol: :lol: