As some might know I've recently tried camping for the first time. I went with fairly inexpensive gear, some of it surplus stuff, to keep costs down until I could see if I liked it.
However, my problem was that I was simply carrying too much weight. I'm pretty small and light (literally 10 stone) and so don't have much carrying ability even when I'm fit. There seems in my case to be a weight above which I simply can't walk well - so I often carry lighter "day" loads for ever without even noticing them, and I tend to carry quite a bit as a day load, but at a certain point it just gets too much for me and my camping load is above this point.
Probably the biggest single weight saving I can make will be with my rucksack as I was using a Dutch Army surplus "Sting" rucksack. This is a fantastic rucksack but to ensure it is indestructible it is made of used tank barrels and so comes in at around 3.5kg weight empty, perhaps more than that with the PLCE pouches attached so I don't think 4kg would be an OTT guess at the weight.
Can anyone recommend a good lightweight rucksack?
In terms of size then the Sting is rated at 55+20 litres. I was using it with the PLCE pouches fitted and was pretty much using all the capacity and I know many people say that it is a very generous 55l in the main compartment so I'm guessing that I need something in the 70 - 75 litre area.
To explain what I carry, just in case anyone has other suggestions or is wondering:
On the nights I was out I was using all the gear I had with me so I don't think I can make significant reductions in what I carry in terms of volume or utility. I can't tolerate down and so am using a synthetic sleeping bag (Snugpak at 1.7kg) which I found just about warm enough for me in use but, clearly, not as light or compact as a down bag. I am using a Vango Banshee 200 tent (2.1kg)and while I know there are lighter options most are beyond my price range and even going to £500 doesn't give much of a weight saving plus very light tents tend not to be robust. I also take along a plastic sheet that I use as a "footprint" for the tent due to pitching on very rough ground with heather and the like, I might buy the Vango footprint as it will be a little lighter I'd guess. I have some lightweight tent pegs that are better suited to wet and boggy ground than the Vango supplied pegs. I was using my Dragonfly stove and fuel bottle and my intention is to replace this with one of those lightweight things that screws into a gas canister so that will save some weight and volume.
Due to the nature of Lewis I don't carry water but was carrying some cooking and tea making gear - very lightweight pots, lighters, cup, fork, dried milk and tea leaves. My food was all freeze dried so maximum food for the weight. In terms of utility then I had my GPS, compass and map, sunblock, midge repellent, toothbrush and toothpaste. On top of that I had my waterproof shell and Buffalo Special 6.
I have the Vango banshee which I think is a great wee tent and recently bought another groundsheet from Cotswolds for about £7. I used it on the Uists which helped as it was a bit wild.
I also carry a primus spider stove which fits in your hand and screws onto the gas canisters. I might need to look at a new set of pots as my others have seen better days and the main pot is losing its no-stick coating.
My sleeping bag is a Rab ascent sleeping bag which is the dogs danglies. Cosy compared to some I have had over the years.
I will be doing a bit more wild camping next season so I intend to spend some time getting my gear perfected.
Billy
a leap of faith, but trust me you'll be pleased you made it:
http://www.winwood-outdoor.co.uk/acatalog/Golite_Jam_2_lightweight_rucksack.html (http://www.winwood-outdoor.co.uk/acatalog/Golite_Jam_2_lightweight_rucksack.html)
or any of the go-lite models you fancy. ridiculously light and surprisingly comfortable (although you need to revise some of the more conventional ideas on packing. such as ditching the compression stuff sacs for your sleeping bag; replace it with a larger, lightweight waterproof stuff bag that lets it expand a bit. this provides the padding for your back)
I stocked the earlier versions of these when they first came over from the states and the quality and durability is without question. radical? yes, but not stupidly expensive & they work......
Quote from: corsican dave on October 21, 2015, 09:37:48 AM
or any of the go-lite models you fancy. ridiculously light and surprisingly comfortable (although you need to revise some of the more conventional ideas on packing. such as ditching the compression stuff sacs for your sleeping bag; replace it with a larger, lightweight waterproof stuff bag that lets it expand a bit. this provides the padding for your back)
So do these packs not have a frame but rather use the contents as the "frame" instead? The weight is certainly very nice at around 2lb rather than probably 7 - 9lb in my current pack. Also do you know if the do something around the 70 litre mark as with the bulky sleeping bag and tent I probably can't fit everything into 50l.
I have the 55 ltr version of this which is a very good robust ''sac. It's about 2KG. My version is well well made, shows no sign of wear after more than 10 years, is padded, very adjustable and comfy to wear.
http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-panther-65-rucksack-793029?colcode=79302924&src=google&gclid=CKbpt_SQ08gCFYQfwwodMiIPyA&gclsrc=aw.ds (http://www.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-panther-65-rucksack-793029?colcode=79302924&src=google&gclid=CKbpt_SQ08gCFYQfwwodMiIPyA&gclsrc=aw.ds)
If I were you I'd visit a stove and try a few on.
Quote from: caorach on October 21, 2015, 10:19:05 AM
So do these packs not have a frame but rather use the contents as the "frame" instead? The weight is certainly very nice at around 2lb rather than probably 7 - 9lb in my current pack. Also do you know if the do something around the 70 litre mark as with the bulky sleeping bag and tent I probably can't fit everything into 50l.
nope, no frame. the shape of the pack, once full, gives the same ergonomic properties as a framed pack. hence the trick in packing is to have your soft kit in roomy stuff bags that allows it to expand and fill the gaps. hard kit, such as stoves, pans etc gets packed in the middle of the soft stuff.
the go-lite gust was the model I had for a couple of big alpine trips (down clothing, 5-season tent etc) but it looks like they don't do it any more. in fact i'm struggling to find a uk supplier for you. i'll keep trying.
the problem with packs of this type is that when you get above a certain capacity, it's difficult to maintain the shape. unless you've filled it with down gear, of course. that's one of the reasons that "old-fashioned" pack frames are still used for big, awkward loads. then you start down the slippery slope of updating all your kit for the latest, lightest...... (incredibly expensive)
Fred's choice, or something similar is probably the best compromise. and his advice to try a reputable store is spot on. don't buy mail order unseen. i'm biased, but I would check out a local, ideally independent, retailer who's been in business for years and has keen, knowledgeable staff. worth more than any discount. may have to be the mainland for that, I guess? http://www.northwestoutdoors.co.uk/home/ (http://www.northwestoutdoors.co.uk/home/) these guys are very good (john & Lawrence), ullapool. if you're as small as you suggest, you should be aware that some models are made with a number of back lengths. this will be important for you. there are models which have adjustable back lengths but invariably this adds in weight & cost.
just to finish off, here's the latest incarnation of go-lite, as far as I can work out: http://gossamergear.com/ (http://gossamergear.com/) although they're a silly price in the uk and for that money you'll definitely be better off with something more conventional
I have the Go-Lite Pinnacle that holds 20 Kg for a weeks camping although I have a down bag that compresses down quite small and I only take one pot which is big enough to go over the end of my tent, and a small kettle.
You might have difficulty in getting a Go-Lite though.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=97062 (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=97062)
There are some threads in the FAQ on lightweight camping.
http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=faq;sa=show;faqid=10 (http://www.wildfisher.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=faq;sa=show;faqid=10)
Thank you to everyone for the replies so far - I was really taken with the go-lite bags as they were at the sort of money I could at least start to think about spending but it looks like they've gone under and that UK availability wasn't great to start with. It must be said that a 1kg bag would be great :-)
Good price on the Karrimor though Fred and at 2kg it would still offer a saving on what I've got.
I must do an experiment and see if I could do some juggling and fit everything I need into the main compartment of my 55l rucksack. I don't think it will fit but we'll see in due course.
It might sound daft but if your only doing day trips and using a 55l bergen something's going wrong. Have you layed all your kit out and really looked at what you really use and what you take just incase? Especialy the environments you are going to travel through like carrying a tarp instead of a tent will save weight and a lot of room.
For a day my self I will just take:
A tarp
A knife
A hatchet (area depending)
A jet boil (inc food and brew)
A doss bag
A head torch
A storm jacket
A softie
And then the nessersery fishing kit.
This is off the top of my head if I'm returning home at night I would leave the doss bag and that saves a ton of room.
A tarp really is sod all use to me on that ground and in the sort of weather and midge conditions which prevail. I'd rather stay at home than try to put a tarp up out there, or sleep under it once I've got it up. You are right though that the tent and sleeping bag take up the most volume but, as I've said, I'm not taking anything that I'm not using. My day trip gear easily goes in a 30l bag, and in fact when I reduce it back for overnight trips the bits I take (cooking, sun block, midge repellent, GPS, food and a few small odds and ends) on an overnight easily fit, with space left over, in the two 10l PLCE rocket pockets on my rucksack.
I use the Bergaus Vulcan I think it's 3.5kg with the rocket pouches at 100L most the time I use it without for its size though it's very comfy you can fit all your day stuff in the top compartment and tent, doss bag in the main body with your jackets. To make it lighter you can take the metal frame out which will really reduce the weight.
you two would be better off fishing together with Soldier carrying Caorach in the pack....
Quote from: corsican dave on October 23, 2015, 09:11:43 AM
you two would be better off fishing together with Soldier carrying Caorach in the pack....
Well, I got a laugh :-)
This is a great idea, for years I've been walking miles to my fishing little realising that there was the option to get someone with a huge rucksack to carry me.
Quote from: SoldierPmr on October 23, 2015, 05:43:41 AM
I use the Bergaus Vulcan I think it's 3.5kg with the rocket pouches at 100L most the time I use it without for its size though it's very comfy you can fit all your day stuff in the top compartment and tent, doss bag in the main body with your jackets. To make it lighter you can take the metal frame out which will really reduce the weight.
Your pack alone weighs as much as my tent and sleeping bag combined :shock: Dropping it back to even a 2kg pack would mean easier walking and less strain on the knees and hips, and room for more food :8)
Quote from: SoldierPmr on October 23, 2015, 05:43:41 AM
I use the Bergaus Vulcan I think it's 3.5kg with the rocket pouches at 100L
I weighed mine - it's 2.75 kg.
Quote from: admin on October 23, 2015, 12:01:23 PM
I weighed mine - it's 2.75 kg.
Cheers Fred I overesitmated is that with the pouches on?
Dave I have not got the spine to carry some one any more I was running around with 17kg on my back the other week and I thought that was a tad heavy :lol:
I've seen a few of these on the go. I've never used the rucksack type but I've got a lot of other Lomo gear including their dry bags and it's all top notch. It's also very reasonably priced.
The 60l rucksack seems to be favoured by Alistair Humphries, walker , cyclist, explorer, adventurer and all round nutter so I'd guess it's well up to the job.
http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/rucksack-dry-bags-rucksacks.html (http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/rucksack-dry-bags-rucksacks.html)
That Lomo is so basic and yet so clever
Yep, It's also so cheap and well made.
not at all cheap, but ticks all the other boxes. give my mate Andy a call at Backcountry Biking
http://www.backcountrybiking.co.uk/product/hyperlite-mountain-gear-3400-porter-pack-2/ (http://www.backcountrybiking.co.uk/product/hyperlite-mountain-gear-3400-porter-pack-2/)
Quote from: corsican dave on November 13, 2015, 02:20:31 PM
not at all cheap, but ticks all the other boxes.
In my studying of the internet the Windrider version of this pack had attracted my attention and it looks very nice indeed but I could simply never justify the cost unfortunately.
Quote from: caorach on November 13, 2015, 09:00:29 PM
In my studying of the internet the Windrider version of this pack had attracted my attention and it looks very nice indeed but I could simply never justify the cost unfortunately.
Have you thought about the old Northern Ireland day sacks 35ltr I think we use to use them all the time. Cheap light and not as bulky as a bergen.
Quote from: SoldierPmr on November 13, 2015, 10:12:30 PM
Have you thought about the old Northern Ireland day sacks 35ltr I think we use to use them all the time. Cheap light and not as bulky as a bergen.
I'm always keen on surplus stuff as a lot of it is very servicable with no fancy stuff that you don't need and at a reasonable price but I don't think the NI patrol sack is going to be big enough for me.
The Dutch Army Sting that I'm currently using (Lowe Alpine made them I think) is a great rucksack but is simply too heavy when I'm looking to reduce weight. I think the Sting is supposed to be about 4kg and that might not count the rocket pockets. Now the army don't care much about weight as they go the route you suggested of getting fitter so I'm probably going to have to go to the commercial world to get something very lightweight.
true story: a well-known british boot manufacturer, now sadly defunct, won the MOD contract for the design of a new boot to replace the dms boot, back in the mid-80's. the MOD loved the design and awarded the contract. then they insisted the cost was reduced by 50%. the result was the high leg boot.
back then the MOD wasn't in the least bit bothered about weight and not that concerned about comfort. training would deal with that. all that mattered was durability (is it "soldier-proof" ?) and cost. hence I was still running around with webbing designed in 1958 when I was doing my thing in the early 80's and using ration packs with 20 year-old chocolate bars.
yes, it's very durably constructed and it's very cheap; but there's a reason why its surplus.....
I recently bought a Palm River Gear Bag, which has shoulder straps/harness, for carrying a float tube plus flippers and so on. Just a big heavy duty roll-top waterproof bag with shoulder straps .... I was impressed .... I bought it from North East Kayaks. Very simple, so you do not pay for extraneous pockets and straps and buckles and stuff. Ideal for what I wanted.
Quote from: Bobfly on November 14, 2015, 04:38:37 PM
I recently bought a Palm River Gear Bag, which has shoulder straps/harness, for carrying a float tube plus flippers and so on. Just a big heavy duty roll-top waterproof bag with shoulder straps .... I was impressed .... I bought it from North East Kayaks. Very simple, so you do not pay for extraneous pockets and straps and buckles and stuff. Ideal for what I wanted.
great choice Vaughan. they're virtually bomb-proof too. we use them for rafting and canoeing groups. perfect float tube bag, i'd say
I mentioned it here Dave because it is a very lightweight bag for the big size of it. Tough made. Could not be simpler in design !!
I thought to maybe update this a little bit. I think I'm probably going to go with an Exped Lightning 60l rucksack as they are getting very good reviews including from a few people I know of who are out and about quite a lot. The big positive with them is that they have a sort of suspension system (frame type idea) and so are very good at moving the weight to the hip belt.
In the mean time I've been doing some experiments at reducing the weight and am looking at going to a simple gas canister with a very lightweight "stove" for my cooking. I know this will not be as flexible as my Dragonfly stove but I'm mostly just out for one night and on that basis it does all I need and saves around 2lb. I also managed to pick up a Vaude Power Lizard tent for reasonable money and am going to give it a try. The weight saving isn't huge but is probably around 3lb but what I've found is that the saving in volume over my Vango Banshee is very significant indeed. I did some experiments using the Vaude and was able to get it and all my basic gear into my 35l rucksack with enough room for some food. I've also found some much lighter material for my home made footprint and so am probably saving nearly 2lb there as well. With some further thinking and the change in rucksack I figure that I can probably save in the order of 1 - 1.5 stone over the sort of weight I was carrying last season.
Now I know that going to a 60l rucksack seems a bit OTT when I can get almost everything I need into a much smaller one but the Exped has decent facilities for volume reduction plus I will need some clothing etc. plus fishing gear so 35l won't quite do my job.
If you have managed to knock off that amount of weight it will have a huge effect (maybe there will be scope for one or two little "Essential Comforts" to find a corner in the new set up) !! :D :D
Quote from: Bobfly on January 30, 2016, 08:07:18 PM
If you have managed to knock off that amount of weight it will have a huge effect (maybe there will be scope for one or two little "Essential Comforts" to find a corner in the new set up) !! :D :D
I hope so, though I don't want to be even thinking that way yet as it will drive the weight up again. I really wasn't carrying anything that I didn't use previously and don't want to get into that habit. I'm just glad to have got rid of some weight, will have to get back out and walking now the days are starting to get a little longer again.